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Stupid coal trucks! I got behind one this AM on my way to work and heard some fine particles hitting my car. When I got to work and looked at the front end of my car, there were fine particles of wet coal dust. I went to a touchless car wash that probably stripped off the nice coat of wax that I had just put on my Cobalt a couple weeks ago.
I should have known better than to get that close to the back of a coal truck, but I was intending to pass him. It was the two lane road that I travel every day on the way to work. I'll just stay back and not try to pass next time.
Tom
Tom
Also, I should have aired up my tries before the trip, but I waited until today to inflate them to the recommended 30 psi. They were down to 26 or 27 psi cold pressure. The cooler weather caused the tire pressure to go down, and I should have aired up sooner. Proper inflation might have given me a mile or so to the gallon better fuel economy.
The onboard air pressure sensors are pretty accurate. They were telling me that I had 26-27 psi tire pressure, and that is exactly what my tire pressure gauge was showing when I aired up this afternoon.
Tom
I worry about getting a ticket, and, of course, driving 80 MPH doesn't help gas mileage. These little Cobalts sure like go fast, don't they?
Anyone have any recommendations for brands of aftermarket cruise control, or for where to have it installed? How much should I plan on spending?
Thanks.
Tom
My "ex," the Honda Fit, was hard to drive over 75 mph, since it felt busy and nervous, not to mention a little loud, above 75 mph. It is the first (and possibly the last) car I've driven to LA from SF and kept under 75 all the way. Got terrific gas mileage though!
I kind of want to drive the Cobalt down to LA to see what kind of mileage I get. I might keep it down to 75, both for safety and to find out how it compares to the Fit. While I don't expect 38 mpg, I'd like to see what I get.
I am liking the new Cobalt so much I am thinking about trading the Versa in on a 5 speed manual version of the Cobalt. 5 speeds are a lot easy to find on dealers' lots these days, thanks to the (now fading) gas crisis. It would be super cool to have a 37 mpg freeway rated car that is (i) quiet and (ii) does 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, according to Car and Driver's recent test.
I'd be tempted to outfit it with some high performance tires (in the same size as factory) and have a little "sleeper" sporty car.
Unfortunately the 5 speeds are hard to find with cruise control or even ABS. I have mixed feelings about ABS. The research indicates it does NOT add to safety - but the research admits the lack of safety improvement may be due to operator misuse (reacting to the ABS "judder" by lifting off the brake). I feel I can break adequately well on dry surface, especially with grippy tires and the soft brake compound on the '09 Cobalt, but always worry about wet surfaces. There, I'd rather have the computer optimizing the braking for me. Eventually, I suppose, I won't ever buy another car without ABS, then I won't ever buy one without stability control...
In fact, Honda just manages to squeek out 37 mpg from their minuscule 1.5 liter Fit model, so this 37 mpg is suspect, to say the least. (And since when was CHEVY the authority on ECONOMY?? Please.)
From where did this amazing fuel economy magically appear??
Bottom line: Chevrolet, I don't believe you. I think this is a publicity stunt.
Engine size doesn't mean everything but then doubters will always be around. LOL
thanks
Bottom line: Chevrolet, I don't believe you. I think this is a publicity stunt. "
37MPG is the EPA estimated highway mileage. It is NOT Chevrolet's number. Manufacturers do not post their own mileage estimates on the window sticker.
Here is a link so you can view the full report:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2009.pdf
Here is a line from the report to help you better understand the nature of the EPA testing program.
"These fuel economy estimates are based on laboratory testing.
All vehicles are tested in the same manner to allow fair
comparisons."
Unfortunately, perception reigns over reality for many people when it comes to cars. However, EPA mileage testing and estimates are extremeely objective and unbiased. Believe it!
1. If these tweaks to tires, gear ratios, etc were so minor (ie: it wasn't accomplished with a radical new engine design) then why did it take Chevy so long to produce it?
2. If Chevy was capable of accomplishing this, why are they, along with GM, Chrysler and Ford, bitching and moaning about trouble meeting higher EPA standards??
3. If Chevy can accomplish this then why on earth can't Toyota and Honda et al?? Has the world turned upside down?
Needless to say, I'm utterly befuddled by this information.
Now which engine is pumping more air at 60 mph on the freeway?
A 1.5 liter engine turning over at 3500 rpm?
Or a 3.0 liter engine turning over at 1750 rpm?
Trick question - they are both pumping the same amount of air. The smaller engine is running twice as fast to do its job as the 3.0 liter engine.
While the example is hypothetical, this is one of the main reasons that larger engines often have the same gas mileage as smaller engines - because the larger engine is turning over at lower rpm.
I had a Yaris '07 with stick and a Cobalt '06 with stick (before the XFE tweaks). I got 37 mpg with the Yaris and 33 mpg with the Cobalt, over essentially the same route to work and with similar recreational driving habits. On long trips, the Yaris dropped to 35 mpg and the Cobalt came up to 35 mpg. Probably because the Yaris was running at relatively higher rpm than the Cobalt and there was more of a penalty at constant high speeds on the Yaris. Also some larger cars run "extra lean" and have better fuel injector design, which allows pretty good efficiency.
In my experience, owning about 15 small cars over the past 8 years, the weight of the car and type of transmission are the biggest factors in determining fuel economy. Almost all makers design their vehicles for fuel economy. Compare modern cars with my 1967 VW Beetle with 40 horsepower engine which got between 25 and 28 mpg on my commute from the Valley to USC - modern cars are much better. Or to my '56 Chevy with 6 cylinder and 3 speed manual transmission - that got 18-20 mpg. We've come a long way.
So why does the Yaris come with a 105 horsepower, 1.5 engine? Because it is a "Euro/Asia"-centric vehicle which MUST be small to fit on smaller, more congested roads, MUST be small to deal with parking, and MUST have a smaller engine since cars are subject to stiff taxes for having larger displacement - which is why the home model cars are often 1.2 or 1.4, and why the performance models often turn to turbo-charging instead of larger displacement.
Once the car is designed for a smaller engine, it is often hard to shoehorn a larger displacement engine into the smaller compartment.
BTW, Honda and Toyota upgraded the 2.0 engines in their CamCords to the current 2.4 liters and lowered the RPM, and mileage is better, IIRC. So it isn't only the American manufacturers that "break the laws of physics."
2nd BTW - the current Cobalts downshift a little reluctantly at times with the automatic transmission. This is intentional to maximize the efficiently of keeping the engine at lower rpm. It negatively impacts the driving experience for SOME drivers who expect an instant downshift (I just push the pedal harder if I need it). That's why mileage wasn't higher before - because drivers wanted a certain experience more than mpg. Ditto on the stickshifts on both Cobalts (which I don't own in stickshift version) and new Focuse (which I do own). The gearing is quite different so the engine is running slower - but that means when I need more acceleration on the hill approaching the Highway 24 tunnel, I have to downshift to 4th - easy to do, but negatively impacts the driving experience for some drivers who got spoiled by high engine rpm in 5th gear which meant you virtually never had to downshift before....
So yeah, tweaks here and there in the cars can improve mileage. Could Toyota drop the top gear ratio in their Yaris and improve the mileage? Put better fuel injectors in there to improve the mileage? Remap the ECM (engine control module computer)? Yeah, I bet they can, but when they designed the Yaris, they were aiming at low cost of entry for new car buyers, not ultra high mileage, and wanted the driving experience to be as perky as possible for those drivers. If they "tweak" the car the way the Cobalt is tweaked, they might lose sales when people complain it doesn't pick up as well (of course it will, if you downshift dummy!).
So in a nutshell there is a "people" or "sociological" side to car design, it's not purely about mpg, and different manufacturers emphasize economy or driveability at different times.
At the end of the day, though, its YOUR right foot that really determines gas mileage - do you gauge the flow of traffic and anticipate slowdowns? Do you gradually speed up when traffic flow starts moving faster, or Gran Prix it then brake hard when you speed up too much? I think Americans have forgotten all the neat fuel economy driving strategies that used to be common in Popular Mechanics and Popular Science in the 60's. It's a "go" world nowadays. Heck, even the "Fit IS go!" (as their ad states).
But spend 350 miles just cruising at highway speed, and the weight penalty is less important than other factors, and the cars got equal mpg. Even though the Yaris liftback has a good coefficient or aerodynamic resistance....
1. If these tweaks to tires, gear ratios, etc were so minor (ie: it wasn't accomplished with a radical new engine design) then why did it take Chevy so long to produce it?
The actually accomplished tweaks to the tires, air dam, and transmission very quickly when the marketplace was beginning to respond to rising gas prices. And to be fair the 2009 XFE does have a new engine as well. It is the same displacement but now features VVT on intake and exhaust valves.
2. If Chevy was capable of accomplishing this, why are they, along with GM, Chrysler and Ford, bitching and moaning about trouble meeting higher EPA standards??
All automakers were oppposed a rise in cafe standards, some (including Toyota) were just more vocal about it. The reason is that sinking billions of dollars into fleet development to meet an arbitrary federal standard doesn't lead to an increase in sales, its just expensive. Companies want to invest in response to the market, not in response to regulations. We should thank those that spoke out against CAFE for their efforts to preserve personal liberty and personal choice. American consumers sharply changed their purchasing decisions and driving behavior when gasoline went above $3.50, not in reponse to CAFE or anything else. Its all about the $$$. No political leader in this country has the will to promote a flat and substantial federal gas tax, which would similarly cut consumption for most while protecting the rights of those who are willing to pay for more fuel. Politicians took the path of least resistance (and self preservation) with CAFE. Shame on them.
3. If Chevy can accomplish this then why on earth can't Toyota and Honda et al?? Has the world turned upside down?
They certainly can accomplish this. There is no secret to designing and engineering cars. And their is no magic elf that works in asian-brand factories that makes their cars superior. The Asian brands thumped the big three in cars forced them to improve their entire lines. The lessons were learned and the improvements were made. Its up to us as auto consumers and to give domestics the same open-minded consideration we gave the Asian brands 10 years ago. So enjoy all the great choices that we have now...and no doubt the other brands will make XFE-type tweaks if they haven't already.
I hope my marketing point of view wasn't too much. Lots of great discussion today! Thanks and good job
The ride was reasonably comfortable and the engine had plenty of pep. Cruise would have been nice but I got a weekend rental deal on this Cobalt for around $35. I figured I could rent a car and save gas money and wear/tear vs driving my 19 mpg F150 all weeekend. It worked darn well and I got in a great round of golf at Bully Pulpit in the badlands. http://www.medora.com/attractions/golf/index.html
Amazing place if you like a good road trip!
"The actually accomplished tweaks to the tires, air dam, and transmission very quickly when the marketplace was beginning to respond to rising gas prices"
That's the problem with American auto manufacturers (up until now, at least): They are reactive, not proactive. While CAFE standards may indeed have impacted all the auto manufacturers (and yes, Toyota fought them too), it was Honda, Toyota, and VW, among others, who saw the writing on the wall and got to work producing technologies that would address the foreseeable changes in the market. (And it's interesting to note that those are three of the highest quality and most reliable brands in the industry. Surely not a coincidence.)
Any nut job with a trailer and a six-pack could have told GM et al TEN YEARS ago that their insistence on continuing to produce big trucks and SUVs would prove to be counter-productive and, ultimately, self-defeating. (One has to ask one's self who was at the helm.)
"American consumers sharply changed their purchasing decisions and driving behavior when gasoline went above $3.50, not in reponse to CAFE or anything else. Its all about the $$$."
Unfortunately, our history is replete with examples of consumerism driving bad market decisions, instead of common sense and necessity. GM et al insist that they were reacting to what the market wanted, yet the market was bound to shift; all evidence pointed to this. But, once again, Detroit was slow on the uptake; unwilling to change even basic offerings and adjust to changing conditions that even the uninitiated could have identified.
Yes, while purchasing decisions are usually decided by cost, we also have a responsibility to act on behalf of the environment--something that few would do voluntarily if not encouraged to do so with appropriate incentives.
I know, I know; you can't regulate morality. But you CAN regulate the cost of things, so offering LEV and Hybrid discounts and tax deductions, and special HOV-lane privileges is one way to mitigate those for consumers who care as much about their environment as they care about their pocket books. We've become apathetic, and it shows in our buying as well as our manufacturing habits.
"And their is no magic elf that works in asian-brand factories that makes their cars superior."
Having abhorred for too long the quality and air of American automotive products, one actually begins to think that there IS a magic elf at work in those Asian factories.
Lastly, I find it telling that American car companies begin to fall back on old favorites and old habits when the going gets tough--or perhaps when they simply run out of ideas (Ford even nixing their new "500" label in favor of the old "Taurus" one, for Pete's sake!). Their show rooms are now replete with the big V6 and V8 Mustangs, Challengers and Magnums of their golden years (sure, VW and others have done this, more modestly, but always with an eye toward improving their engineering proficiency, not simply for pomp, bluster, and The American Way). Unwilling to reinvent themselves, or just unable?
Anyway, so yeah: I buy Asian. For now.
Do you know how that car was upgraded to get the extra couple mpg? You may want to read up on that instead of complaining about an American car that out does your beloved foreign Japanese car.
The great thing about this little car is that it has turned out to be so much fun to drive, and the good gas mileage is just icing on the cake. I am no longer concerned with squeezing every single MPG out of it, and I drive it now more like I have always driven, not crazy fast or anything, but not super conservatively either.
That little car will get me a minimum of 27 MPG for my daily commute, including my in town trip to eat lunch each day. Sure, I could go back to driving no more than 55 MPH out of the highway and accelerating a little less aggressively in town, and that would bring the MPG up to 28.5 to 29.0. I got tired of driving that way, though, and the excitement over MPG waned. I guess the way gas prices have dropped has been a factor, too.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am NOT one of those people who is constantly going back and forth between the brake pedal and the gas pedal and wasting all kinds of gas. I'm just no longer going to the other extreme to maximize gas mileage.
I am totally satisfied with that little Cobalt. Well, I DO wish that it had cruise control. I didn't realize how bad I would miss that feature.
Tom
First highway mileage drive. 166 miles, half on Interstate @ 65 mph using cruise control, rest on secondary highways through small towns @ 50-60 mph average. Easy foot, slow acceleration. Moderate hills, some headwind on the Interstate.
30 MPG. Driver's info shows a 25.5 mpg average. 630 miles on the car at this point.
A little dissapointed in this mileage, as was hoping for 33-34.
When driven solely for my 35 mile commute, I get 33 mpg.
When driven mainly on the weekends to haul my kids around the city, plus one day in the middle of the week to work to "exercise" it, I get 28 mpg.
Even a modest amount of city driving drags down mpg significantly.
On the other hand my Ford Focus now gets 34 mpg (stick shift) on the commute, since it no longer has city duty.
I have seen as high as 33.9 MPG on long trips, but my normal driving mix, which is mostly rural two lane roads and a little bit of city driving gets me from 27.0 to 29.0 MPG, depending on how conservatively I want to drive.
I have decided to be happy with the 27.0 and not drive like an old lady just to get the MPG up to 29.0. Once again, I do not drive in such a way as to waste fuel needlessly, it's just that I am no longer thinking about gas mileage every minute that I am behind the wheel. I am just enjoying having a fun little car to drive.
I now have 10,970 miles on that little car, and I am still very happy with it.
Tom
Tom
A big reason we're leaning towards the Cobalt is that we rented one for our vacation and my wife and I found we really liked it. We got about 33 MPG on mostly open driving w/ the automatic.
The fact that she belongs to a "GM family" and we get the discount helps also.
It is easy to fall into the trap of considering only one aspect of a car's performance, like gas mileage, for instance.
Yes, there are cars that get better gas mileage than does the Cobalt, but they would not necessarily have the affordability, ride, room, comfort, and acceleration of a Cobalt. Styling is a matter of taste, but in my book, the Cobalt's styling is another major plus. I don't know of any other car that would rate as high in all of these areas and still sell for such a low price.
I could not be happier about my purchase of a Cobalt, except that, as I have often stated, I would sure like to have cruise control; I should have looked for one that had that feature, but I took the last one on the lot. I have nearly 11,000 miles on my stripped down 2008 Cobalt LS sedan with the automatic transmission, and I am well pleased with the car.
Tom
It must be perfect to drive it in big cities like New-York, Washington, Miami, Chicago ect... easy to mix in heavy traffic and to park.
To make myself clear here, I wouldn't consider buying one because it's not exactly the perfect car to own when you have 9 kids and a wife + a 27 foot trailer to pull. But it's still a nice little car for those who can afford it.
If theres anything else you need to ask about the cobalt, just write. I just bought mine 4 months ago, brand new.
... But the computer shows me 35-37 on the highway. 26-27 is the lowest instant reading I've gotten, and that's for hilly in-town trips, with stoplights and turns every few minutes.
Over the holidays, before buying this Cobalt, we rented an 08 Cobalt to drive 600 miles each way. Got 37 mpg according to the rental 08's calculator.
BTW, who's the chevy genius that designed the XFE 5th gear to run around 2400 rpm at 65 mph? There's no need for that on a level highway. I'd like to be running around 2000 rpm at highway speed and save some money. They should have added a 6th gear.
thanks
Try something, if you are willing. Get leveled off at 65 MPH and set your cruise control, as you say you do routinely anyway. Reset the average MPG (average, not "instant") on the DIC to zero and keep an eye on it. See what it is showing when you finally have to get back on city streets. I would think steady cruising at 65 MPH should get you something very close to the advertised 37 MPG.
Tom
Another interesting bit of information and take it for what it is worth. I always use sunoco gasoline. I am a firefighter at an airport and happened to be having a conversation with the manager of the aircraft fueling station. We were talking about fuel prices and etc and he stated without prompting that Sunoco fuel is the best fuel on the market. They are not affiliated with any brand of fuel. He took me down and showed me samples from thier fuel tanks; some was sunoco and some was not. The Sunoco fuel looked almost clear, just like real good moonshine! Anyhow, I've been running a little bit of a test. I switch the fuel in my girlfriends car from time to time. She is not as particular with her fuel (she get's whatever is cheaper). I will fill her tank and not tell her where I got the fuel so she doesn't alter her driving. The Sunoco tanks always always always get 3 to 4 miles a gallon better than any other fuel. Try it out and see what happens. It may impact your oil life as well. I've got over 5000 on my current oil change (9200 miles total on the car) and the DIC oil life says 56%. Clean fuel, clean oil....... let me know if you get different results.
That's the only accurate way to do it. If you stop the pump when it clicks, that no good.
Your skeptical demeanor is a little on the side of I don't like how you're talking to me. If that's not what you meant, that's fine no foul. Don't assume that everyone on here is an idiot.
Can you clarify this? I've been diligently monitoring MPG in my cars for years but could never correlate the results with the gas brand used. I prefer Shell, then perhaps Mobil/Exxon, then perhaps Sunoco, but this is all very non-scientific.
Due you have any data demonstrating a certain gas brand's advantage?
I've read in other parts of this forum and other magazines that short shifting and under-accelerating will negatively impact your gas milage. I have an 08 cobalt xfe and have gotten 42 mpg during my trip. That including resetting the DIC when I fueled the vehicle and about 5 miles of non interstate driving before I entered the interstate. I don't get that all the time, but it just shows that it is possible.
Another interesting bit of information and take it for what it is worth. I always use sunoco gasoline. I am a firefighter at an airport (Harrisburg International, PA) and happened to be having a conversation with the manager of the aircraft fueling station. We were talking about fuel prices and etc and he stated without prompting that Sunoco fuel is the best fuel on the market. They are not affiliated with any brand of fuel. He took me down and showed me samples from thier fuel tanks; some was Sunoco and some was not. The Sunoco fuel looked almost clear, just like real good moonshine! Anyhow, I've been running a little bit of a test. I switch the fuel in my girlfriends car from time to time. She is not as particular with her fuel (she get's whatever is cheaper). I will fill her tank and not tell her where I got the fuel so she doesn't alter her driving. The Sunoco tanks always always always get 3 to 4 miles a gallon better than any other fuel. Try it out and see what happens. It may impact your oil life as well. I've got over 8000 on my current oil change (12200 miles total on the car: 08 Cobalt LS XFE) and the DIC oil life says 27%. Clean fuel, clean oil....... let me know if you get different results.
Just an update to my milage results. Now that the weather has been warmer I have been getting no less than 36.3 mpg (combined driving) calculated as I fill the tank and not calculated by the car DIC. I drive the posted speed limit and try not to accelerate too heavily so I am not driving like Grandma.
Usually commute mileage is around 29-30.
refinery, which is quite likely
I mean no disrespect but I've seen not a single piece of data to
support the claim that it is well known that the quality of a
brands gas can be as much as 2-3 mpg.
Different brand differ primarily, as far as I understand, in the
composition of the fuel detergent added. This may have effect on the
engine's health, long term, but it's not easy to change the amount of
energy a gallon of gasoline produces.
I do prefer to use a brand gas (will use no-name only rarely), but
this is purely for the detergent.
Would love to see the data showing the MPG advantage of a brand
name.
"Well known 2-3 mpg"... People refer to each other's words and an
urban legend gets born. I could believe 1/2 mpg difference, but 3?..
Let somebody show the data, not perceptions.
I watch my MPG like a hawk -- and here is my data: on a trip from TN
to MA, I filled up at three gas stations: Shell, Sheetz, Citgo. The
MPG (calculated as "the distance to the volume") for the three legs
fueled by each was as follows:
Shell - 36.8, Sheetz - 38.9, Citgo - 36.3.
(This is for a 2005 Malibu with Ecotec 2.2L.)
It's either Sheetz is brandier than the rest or... well, something
else.