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Comments
"it's too slow to accelerate"
"it has solid axle (yuk) suspension"
"it corners like a 70's pickup truck"
"it's just SO heavy!"
"it feels tippy on the freeway"
Consider this contradictory example. Take a Honda Accord offroad, and listen to the complaints:
"it has so little ground clearance!"
"there is NO low-end torque so I can't inch over obstacles without frying the clutch"
"the suspension only moves about 4 inches so I keep lifting wheels off the ground and losing traction"
"I keep burying it in the mud!"
"there are no recovery points for winching"
"it has such small drivetrain components I keep shearing axles"
"the long overhangs keep catching on rocks"
See what happens when you expect a vehicle to excel at something far removed from its initial design parameters?
If you compare a Land Rover to vehicles designed primarily for the road, it will lose the ultimate comparisons at the far ends of the performance envelopes, while performing adequately well in simple conditions.
If you compare a road car to a Land Rover in severe offroad conditions, it will likewise fail miserably... while managing to perform adequately well in simple offroading (fire roads).
By application of technology you arrive at vehicles such as the new Range Rover. It is supremely capable in all conditions, but there is a price to pay for its do-everything-well capabilities.
So, last night I hear that noise again on the way to dinner. By the time we get there the truck sounds like a Harley.
Turns out that ALL the bolts the hold the exhaust manifold on are loose, some to the point of falling out by the time I got to LR this morning.
As much as I have tried to remain optimistic about my particular truck, I am not feeling overly optimistic about it's future. However, it would cost me near $10K to trade for an 04 and I still have no guarantee that I'd be in any better position, it's been one theing after another with this truck....
Stopgo, you should be happy the exhaust bolts are not impossibly corroded in place! (tongue in cheek). Actually are you sure it's not the connection between the exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe? On my D1 there are three bolts there and if I don't torque them all the same then they eventually loosen and it sounds exactly like that. But if I get them all equally tight (easy to do) then they stay put. It's about a 10 minute job with a socket wrench, including washing up afterward. If they are indeed the bolts holding the manifold to the head, then your mechanics should be questioned as to why they didn't use anti-seize compound on the threads, and then torque NEW FASTENERS to factory specs. Trying to torque a used fastener that exhibits failure to stay tight means that fastener has lost its "springiness" and won't work anymore. You want elastic deformation in critical bolts, not plastic deformation. Overtorqueing does just that.
What do YOU want to do with it? There's your answer.
Good luck!
Since it's still under warranty I took it to the dealer. They told me it was indeed the manifold and pointed their finger at the manufacturing process saying the bolts worked themselves loose. All bolts were replaced, everything's fine now, it was more frustrating than anything else....
Long time, no chat! Nanuq, you still have the '96? Man, I still miss mine - had a lot more character than my DII has but no complaints for me in the DII reliability department!
Things are still well out here in Seattle. Sold the D90 about a year and a half ago. Truck was awesome and ran great - just didn't want the pmt. Used the proceeds from the sale to pay off my DII - woohoo! Sold it to a coworker and still see it driving around from time to time. He did her proper and put roof rack, rear ladder, lamp guards, rear lamp, and some other nice kit on her. Looks great and still runs great according to an email from him about six months ago.
About a year ago, my sister-in-law got in an accident with my Rover. At 45 miles an hour, she broad-sided a VW Jetta that didn't look before pulling out. The Rover could have been driven away had it not been for a broken tie rod. These trucks are solid. A year later and she still tracks true with no problems whatsoever. Will probably turn 40,000 miles this weekend on her. Couple of little things here and there (window fell out of the retaining spring one rainy Seattle day this past winter!) but no major problems at all.
We have a ton of thick vine-type undergrowth on our front embankment in front of our house (ton = 9 5x9 UHaul loads to the bark company up the street!). Stuff grows up to 30' long, burrows in and re-roots, then shoots out again. Root bases are 9-12" in diameter with a 10-15' root system.
My neighbor removed his with a pick axe over a 2 year period. Not wanting to exert that sort of effort, I decided to get a chain and yank em out with the Rover. Talk about fun! There were 40-50 root bases and some 25-30 degree slope driving with the Rover - it was great! Chain to the recovery point, gently ease into reverse, and torque them out.
Interesting point - HDC doesn't seem to work when the vehicle is in reverse. Seems as though it would - I can remember 4 wheelin growing up with my cousin and getting into some crazy camber situations where we had to back down in his old Bronco. HDC in reverse would be handy
At any rate, just thought I'd come up for air and do a quick post. Hope all are doing well!
Any rumors about diesel Rovers on the horizon? Jeep Liberty is coming out with common rail diesel this fall and I saw a Tourag W12 TDI the other day. US market is finally waking up to the benefits of diesel technology! Looking forward to more choice as a consumer in this department.
Thanks, wasko
But I was distressed over the weekend, my brother and I drove his diesel Chevy HD2500 Siverado down to Anchor Point and back pulling a trailer. It's like 500 miles round trip. He's got The Monster Chip and he's doing something like 500 ft-lb of torque. So we're pulling a 24' trailer FULL of gluelams, CCIs, OSB plywood, 2x6 studs, you name it... a dual axle trailer loaded to the gunnels and we're driving 70mph most of the way, up and down the mountain passes. Occasional romps to 100mph on the way back (empty) and he got NINETEEN MPG average on the trip! Sheesh. I get about 14mpg on a good day, downhill, with a tailwind. There was just NO justice at all on that trip.
Diesel Rover? Sign me up!
We averaged 17.47 MPG on our 2,251 mile trip. Highest gas price was $2.389 at a gas stop in Flaming Gorge, Utah. Lowest was $2.069, somewhere in Wyoming, perhaps Duboise.
We now have 21,223 miles on our 2003 Disco SE. Overall gas mileage has been 15.75 MPG. Best fill was 19.79 MPG. Worst was 12.97. Best sequential seven fill average has been 17.65 MPG. Best sequential 15 fill average has been 17.20.
Our bias is toward long trip driving, although not necessarily on superhighways. We prefer the back roads, which invariably includes slowing down to drive through the many small towns along the way.
Reliability has been absolutely flawless for all 21K miles. Only services have been the free oil changes, and (not free) tire rotations and (not free) reprogramming of the lights always on and all doors lock computer functions.
We are thinking seriously of a trip to Alaska next year. Anyone have any experience towing trailers, or driving to and from Alaska?
The new LR3 looks like a big improvement over the Disco, as does the price. Anyone wanting to get a 2004 should likely get a very good deal on a solid vehicle while supplies last. No, I don't work for LR, Ford, or anyone else, for that matter.
If there is a downside, we saw only three other Discos while in Wyoming and Montana, so a breakdown could be interesting. (Knocking on my wooden head!).
Only other vehicle I saw on the trip that I would prefer was a brand new Range Rover from Missouri. Only a dream, however. Regards & 73's,
Light Cahill
Steve, Host
Pulling a trailer won't be a problem as long as you're not in too much of a hurry. There are long stretches (like from Tok to Glenallen) where the road has long frost heaves in it and if you're going too fast it can get away from you.
Most of all, enjoy the trip! -Bob
Hey Nanuk, we were up two weeks ago for a wedding and spent a week kayaking out in Aialik Bay. Can't believe the stretch of hot and dry weather you guys are having. Better keep your Rover's muffler and cat off the tall grass for a while.
Steve, Host
Boy do I hear you about the hot/dry weather! We've been building a "cabin" down in Anchor Point and it's so bleeding hot we're having to take breaks in the shade! Driving home last night thru Cooper Landing it was 86 degrees. UNBELIEVABLE. When I was a kid it never EVER got up to 80 degrees! Even the high 70s were rip-snortin' hot and everyone skipped work and went to the lake.
Was the wedding in Seward? We got married on a sailboat out in Thumb cove in Resurrection bay. Here's a nice page of photos for you to remember your trip:
http://www.wildnatureimages.com/Kenai_Fjords_National_Park.htm
Our trip looked more like this. :-)
I think we saw the same humpy whale though!
I couldn't do the sailboat wedding thing; I had to wear a patch on the 3 hour boat ride out to Aialik.
Anyone else Rovering around on their summer vacation? Discovering Alaska is highly recommended. You can drink the water right out of your tincup. (Enough topical references yet? <g>).
Steve, Host
Whatever time it may take to make the trip, I'll have to add the time it will take to get from Denver up to the Canadian border, which is a couple of days, at least.
If we rent an RV or get a truck and trailer, I'll be sure to take the discussion to another appropriate forum. Planning this trip may be almost as much fun as taking the trip. Thanks again.
Light Cahill
Those are great pictures! So is this one you???
http://www.backcountrysafaris.com/Kenai-Fjords/aialik_lunch.php
(ducking and running)
We saw people getting water on the drive down. Was glad to see the sheep were still around too, in spite of all the blasting.
Steve, Host
My first Disco was a 2001 SD which I purchased from the dealer's fleet service at a reduced price. On the night I brought it home, the Check Engine Light came on. After many trips to the dealer, this problem was never resolved. The next day in the rain, it leaked water through the fire wall due to a seam on the body that was never caulked. I had a series of other problems including tire wear that could not be corrected through pressure and/or balancing and rotation. I finally had enough, and traded it back in at my expense for a new 2002 SE only three months later.
The SE started out great, until I went to get the trailer wiring package a month later, and it was on indefinite back order due to problems with the subcontractor (Bosch?). I ended up buying an aftermarket kit, and wiring the harness into the existing wires myself. Still, I had no quality concerns. It is now 2.5 years and 29,000 miles later, and a long and distinguished list of problems have occurred with many of them re occurring on a regular basis. This includes front turn signal bulbs that cause the turn signals to fail. Leaking rear gate window seals. Compass that only reads "S". All of the door seals leaking dust into the cabin. Rail dust covering the paint with rust dots. Uneven tire wear on two sets of tires that have worn prematurely. Doors that fail to open and/or close. Ice frozen anti lock brake failures. Seized rear brake calipers. Various electrical system glitches such as not starting due to alarm system deactivation failures. Intermittent oil leaks. Interior trim pieces that have fallen off. Broken snap on the cargo cover. Foam vibration deadeners that have fallen out of the body panels. I am sure there are more in the service folder I keep on this vehicle.
I have used this vehicle off road for many trips including hundreds of miles on timbering roads through Quebec. Through all of this, I have gone through great lengths to maintain the appearance and maintenance of the vehicle. The friend that purchased his at the same time is also experiencing similar problems including some I have not had like leaking sunroofs, and all of his lights turning off during night driving, and grill gaurds that drip rusty water down the body panels after every car wash, and an AC compressor that sounds like a lawn mower. Through everything, Land Rover has been unreceptive to comments and complaints from either of us. The dealers, from two different states, merely seem to put up with the LR issues, and make a solid attempt at repairing things that really are sub par designs.
Regretfully, I have had enough. I am selling my Disco II this summer and purchasing another brand of vehicle. There is no doubt I will miss this awesome vehicle. I never expected great gas mileage, car like ride, or other shortcomings that people tend to blame on SUVs due to the very nature of this type of vehicle. I don't even fault the recalls. I think that is a responsible way to deal with design flaws. I just can no longer cope with with the frequent problems associated with this vehicle, and the "don't care" attitude that LR takes after the sale.
I sincerely hope that all of you will have better experiences than I have had. Maybe the LR3 and the possible closing/quality improvements of the UK plant will put to rest some of the nagging problems that many LR owners seem to face. Maybe Ford can help bring a North American perception of quality and customer service to this otherwise distinguished brand name. If that is the case, I may give them another try in the future.
Tom
That's scarier than thinking about seized calipers! (having driven to the Bonaventure River put-in, the logging trucks make the semis on Route 20 seem tame).
Steve, Host
Land Rover Creates Classic Parts Business (Carpages)
Steve, Host
By the way, the Disco is marvelous on dirt roads and even washboards. The only thing that can be a bit unnerving on long stretches of washboard is that the steering wheel will start oscillating into an unnatural rhythm that feels like the front end will come loose. You get used to the shaky wheel after a few incidents, but it feels unsettling. A side effect of this is that the rear gate handle does not like the dust or vibration, and tends to freeze up. (which means you will be forced to take your dirty golf clubs in and out one of the rear doors with a seat folded down) This has happened to me several times. The service "band-aid" for this is to pop the LR emblem off the rear latch cover, spray a bunch of WD-40 into the latch mechanism, and then super glue the Land Rover emblem back into place. It's in the shop today again, for this very procedure (plus the brake modulator recall.)
Tom
Steve, Host
Help would be appreciated! If you know of or have these items to sell, please e-mail me at tabar5@msn.com.
Thanks-in-advance.
Steve, Host
I drove my 2002 SE to work this morning, and noticed it was making a brake sqealing type sound. I got out, and noticed the back wheel was smoking. I seized another rear caliper (#3), and it's back in the shop. They said it's binding, and does not fully release the pad from the rotor. Ugh :-(
While mine is in for service, they hooked me up with a 2004 SE. For anyone who has not driven one, try it. For most folks who do not drive the Discovery on a regular basis, it will look and drive like the previous DII. For those of us who drive them everyday, you will say "Wow, everything just feels better!" The power is significantly better. Ride seems softer without any additional body roll. The pedal feel seems improved. Locking center differential (should have never disappeared to egin with.) The steering feels more solid (that may change with age.)
Overall, the 2004 seems like a better version of the vehicle.
Cheers
Especially if it's one wheel that keeps doing it, I'd suspect *that* brake line or *that* circuit of the 4-circuit ABS system.
I decided to pull of the cover material from the door shell and coat the door with acoustic material. (I saw a diplay in the local audio shop that kept an aluminum garbage can from rattling. So I said, "It MUST work on the disco!)
Well, it took about half the day to do it. I removed all upholstery, door latch and sub woofer from the door shell. Then applied acoustic treatment to everything that wasn't a screw or bolt. I even covered the recessed area the sub sits in.
IT WORKED!! I am now actually turning my stereo down because it's simply too loud. There is so much bass without rattle, I've had to re-adjust my settings. The difference is worth the time. The stereo is working much more efficiently.
Folks, if I can do this and be happy with the results, ANYONE can.
I would like to do the same to the other doors, but there seems to be so much more electronics in them. Window motors/ guides speakers etc. I am afraid it would be too easy to screw something up. The rear gate has nothing other than the sub and door latch cover.
Now, keep in mind the sub only houses two 6.5 in woofers. Even with all the sound treatment it's not going to wake the neighbors! If that's what your going for, install the right equipment.
I was looking for a clear sound that was full. That's what the harmon kardon name is known for.
This time, they are only doing the driver's side, and claim the other side is fine. I figure that one will develop problems at a later date. It's difficult to tell when a rear brake is dragging under normal driving conditions while driving on dry roads.
Like you, I suspect that there is something else contributing to this problem. Especially if this is not a common problem for other owners. Since these repairs are done under warranty, I generally don't argue with the repair that is performed.
Josh
Steve, Host
Tires? Seattle? Rain? Snow only few times in mountains? Mostly pave driving. 18" rims..Suggestions?
This forum is great......b
From this week's SUVs Newsletter:
Land Rover's newest SUV arrives in showrooms later this year wearing a sticker price substantially higher than the Discovery it replaces. The LR3 midsize SUV will come to the States priced from $44,995, the Ford brand said last week. Two trim levels will be available: the SE and the $49,995 HSE, which adds a nav system, memory seats and a ritzier sound system. Both will feature a 300-hp, 4.4-liter V8 derived from the 4.2-liter engine found in the Jaguar lineup, as well as a six-speed automatic, an air suspension and advanced four-wheel drive.
Steve, Host
The dealer may be adding additional services on top of what the manufacturer recommends, and it's up to you to decide whether you need them or not. Turning down the extras shouldn't affect your warranty.
If nothing is being added to the factory requirements, it sounds like you're being overcharged.
You're not getting another brake job too are you?
Steve, Host
Not getting "another" brake job......
Dealer sticking by their claim saying $400 alone is parts for a 30K service and no additional service has been added. Said other dealer here is $1375 if I called.
My question before was simply...Do all scheduled servicings need to be performed at a LR dealer to maintain warrenty? I do my own oil changes for MUCH cheaper using genuine parts.
You don't even have to use genuine parts in most cases (DC tranny fluid used to be sole sourced from the dealer - don't know of another example off-hand).
Steve, Host
thanks in advance
I read somewhere that when the Series II Disco came out LR gave some major rebates on the remaining Series I Discos, so I would think they'd do the same thing when they kill off the Discovery model altogether.
LR is putting $4500 in marketing money on the remaining '04 Disco II's. My friend and I each bought one this week. We got a total of $6,500
off of sticker for the Discovery SE...This brought the price down from $39,995, to $33,495.
To my way of thinking, a fantastic deal.
The only negative about this is, that if you are trading-in your current Disco, the lower prices on the '04's will also lower what you receive for your trade-in.