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Honda Insight MPG-Real World Numbers

13

Comments

  • albalmaalbalma Member Posts: 10
    jburnelle, how about the Volt? It is expensive, but if you can afford it, it has great range and is mostly an EV with a fuel recharger.
  • eastkilleastkill Member Posts: 1
    I have a 60 mile commute one way. I live in the Catskill Mountains. I go down the moutain for about 10 miles, then it flattens out for 20 miles and I go 64 MPH on cruise control. Then I get on the Thruway for another 30 miles. Flat and I go 73 MPH, on cruise control. The winter's are long here. And then I have to go up the 10 miles on the way home. Parts of the climb are fairly steep. In my Camry, it jumps to 2200 at about 45 - 50 MPH (it's an older car). I've been reading this terrific forum because I really want an Insight...I like the looks and it's a Honda...but I'm wondering if my commute is wrong for this car? If I go any slower, I would never get to work. I will say, in the winter I go slower because it's dark and I don't want to hit a deer. Any insights (pun intended) would be very helpful. Thanks.
  • albalmaalbalma Member Posts: 10
    You will get anywhere from 46 to 50 mpg, even running the air conditioning at that speed, that is supposing that you get a lot of efficiency on the way down and then it goes down on the way back, when you are climbing. You should get 100+mpg on the way down, even at 70, when flat you will get anywhere from 45-50 at that speed and then on the way up it can go anywhere between 30 and 45, depending on how steep the climb is. I have even done 80 (on a 70 road, somewhat flat), with no less than 40-45 mpg. Road conditions are important, but how many mpg's do you get in your Camry?
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    'A while back you suggested that to optimize mileage, you should try to drive on the electric motor only for a long as possible. You described this as "free mileage". I would have to disagree with that recommendation and here's why... "

    The Honda hybrid system does not have a pure electric mode. When it is moving, the engine is running.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    Not true. I'm an electrical engineer who put himself thru college as an automechanic. 20+ years of working on cars and designing computer chips. I also own the vehicle,... 2010 Insight EX with Nav, Atomic Blue. I assure you it does.
    You can get the electric motor to power the car by itself. If you own one, toggle over to the information display page that shows the battery level. As you are driving you can see how the energy flows to and from the car, battery and gas tank. When you see an arrow pointing from the battery to the car by itself, that means that the electric motor is keeping the car moving. See this youtube link of someone doing it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vMAb5DOl5Q

    When this happens, the gas engine is still turning but it is not running because the hybrid control computer has shutoff the fuel to the fuel injectors.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    Here is a graphical depiction of the various modes of operation on the Insight powertrain:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmDkc8SEvwc&feature=related
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    edited August 2011
    "If you own one, toggle over to the information display page that shows the battery level. As you are driving you can see how the energy flows to and from the car, battery and gas tank. When you see an arrow pointing from the battery to the car by itself, that means that the electric motor is keeping the car moving. See this youtube link of someone doing it: "

    Possibly I should have said that the engine is turning over whenever the car is moving. Strange in a way, because that means the electric motor is having to push the cylinders, which takes more energy. But I suppose that is because the IMA has the electric motors around the driveshaft, making it impossible to completely disconnect the electric from the mechanical (unlike the Toyota and Ford hybrid systems).
  • albalmaalbalma Member Posts: 10
    The electrical motor is not having to push the cylinders because the valves are closed, which makes it a push-compress cycle, which does not add to the energy spending. You do have the friction of the cylinders moving though, so it probably is a less efficient system, however, the lower weight should make up for it, at least some.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    Not quite. As you mentioned, there are energy losses do to friction. However, the push-compress cycle you mention is not an adiabatic process. When air is compressed, it heats up. Some of this heat is loss thru the cylinder walls via the cooling system. This heat loss is energy loss that adds to energy spending. Obviously not an ideal situation. A lower cost solution compared to Prius, but still quite effective.
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    edited August 2011
    Sorry, I didn't mean to be misleading with the phrase "free mileage". Of course it's energy that you've already paid for - you burned gas to get that energy stored in the battery. But using it in the way I've mentioned is a little like finding a five dollar bill in the pocket of pants you haven't worn in a while. It FEELS like free money even though it was yours to begin with. You see, also being an electrical engineer like yourself, I find when writing on these boards if I write like an engineer then no one but engineers will understand me. I'm guessing the audience here has wide varying levels of technical understanding and I'd like everyone to be able to follow the discussion regardless of background. So at the risk of occasionally being slightly technically imprecise, I will sometimes bend science to a small degree to try to better get the point across. Which leads to phrases like "free mileage".

    I read your post and agree technically with everything you said. Although, I'd still like to defend my previous recommendation. But first, it was correct of you to point out that when using the energy stored in the battery, some energy is lost in the conversion process. I call this "The Conversion Tax" and had planned to do a couple of posts on this subject with some specific recommendations at a later date. And of course, the conversion tax must be paid when storing the energy in the battery too - so you have to pay the tax BOTH ways. So you are correct that if you use the battery power to maintain speed you are going to pay the tax twice, as opposed to maintaining speed using gas only.

    You also pointed out that the battery energy is supposed to be used for acceleration. But remember, some of my other posts were geared towards reducing the amount of overall energy used during acceleration. That will also use less stored battery energy. The end result is that more energy is left in the battery. And since normal driving with the Insight also further charges the battery, you often can reach a point where the battery is almost at full charge. And now it is time to brake. PROBLEM... If your battery is full before you start to brake, you won't have any battery capacity left to store the energy of braking. An now your hybrid momentarily becomes a normal car and uses only the wasteful friction brakes to stop the car. That wastes a LOT of energy. Way more than paying the conversion tax. This wouldn't happen if you tried to use up some of the battery energy while driving. So it's a matter of sacrificing a little efficiency in order to not waste a big gulp of energy. Besides, remember that the amount of conversion tax you pay increases with the amount of current in/out of the IMA. Well when using battery to maintain speed the current remains very low. And battery charging during driving is similar. So the "tax" (loses) are low too.

    One more supporting point. When driving on battery only, you sometimes don't have to try and make it happen. The car will do it on its own. Honda seemingly has provided this as a benefit. The same can be said for the Prius. If it was a wasteful thing to do, Honda and Toyota probably would have not included it in the software algorithm. ...And I seem to notice better mileage when I've been able to do it more.

    New topic: The time my headlights ran down the hybrid battery...
    What you say sounds correct. What puzzles me is that while stopped in traffic in AUTOSTOP (engine not running) and no other accessories on except headlights, I watched my IMA battery display slowly deplete down to zero over the course of about an hour. At that point the car came out of AUTOSTOP and stayed that way until I was able to drive and charge up the battery again. So now I'm confused as to what discharged my 100V battery down to zero. Is there a converter to charge the 12V battery from the 100V battery? What else would stop the 12V battery from running down during AUTOSTOP?
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    edited August 2011
    "When this happens [running on battery only], the gas engine is still turning but it is not running because the hybrid control computer has shutoff the fuel to the fuel injectors."

    Listening to the engine when driving on battery only would suggest that the fuel injectors are not entirely shutoff. You can still hear combustion. The car sounds the same as when idling. Compare the sound when driving on battery to the sound when the car is in AUTOSTOP but still moving - it's very different. In AUTOSTOP you can hear the gas engine has turned off.

    Another experiment: While driving down a long hill in battery mode only, I listened to the engine (and still heard and felt it idling). I was going about 40MPH. And then I turned off the ignition with the key while still movng and with the car still in the drive gear. Then the sound was VERY different. You could no longer hear and feel the gas engine idling and could tell it was really off.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Listening to the engine when driving on battery only would suggest that the fuel injectors are not entirely shutoff. You can still hear combustion. The car sounds the same as when idling. Compare the sound when driving on battery to the sound when the car is in AUTOSTOP but still moving - it's very different. In AUTOSTOP you can hear the gas engine has turned off.

    Another experiment: While driving down a long hill in battery mode only, I listened to the engine (and still heard and felt it idling). I was going about 40MPH. And then I turned off the ignition with the key while still movng and with the car still in the drive gear. Then the sound was VERY different. You could no longer hear and feel the gas engine idling and could tell it was really off. "

    I suspect that if someone hooked up a scanguage II and programmed it correctly, the fuel cut-off (or lack thereof) would be obvious. I know that my FEH cuts off fuel when above a certain state of charge and going downhill, for example.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    I see your point.
    However, I think that at some point, you just have to let the car's electronics manage things. Trying to make sure that when you brake, you always have someplace for the energy to go? Wow! Good point but that's further than even I want to take things! Good catch though.

    Running on the battery alone is not a "feature" I would think Honda provided as a benefit. I think it is more likely a loophole in their hybrid control algorithm. If it were a "feature" I think they would advertise it as such.

    Ideally, you want the electric motor to run where it adds the most value, and that is when there is a need for high torque, i.e. acceleration. Any other use is less efficient, except for maybe the case that you pointed out. I would love to see some equations to prove that but agree, you might be right. The most efficient condition would be when the car is traveling at a constant velocity, and the battery is fully charged.

    I think I'll try something. Find a nice flat stretch of highway. When I start, the electric motor is used to aid acceleration. Once I reach cruise velocity, the battery starts to recharge. Now, based on your theory, the battery will charge fully, leaving no place to put the energy gathered by regenerative braking when I stop. If the algorithm is smart, it would always leave a some battery capacity for this energy recovery. Or would that be the smartest thing to do?

    I wouldn't be suprised either way because, it seems to me that it depends on how you want to hedge you bet. If the car's computer knew that you where approaching a long downhill run, it would not bother recharging the battery with the ICE at all but simply wait until you start to go downhill. Now if the car's computer knew that you where approaching a long climb through the mountains, it would go ahead and charge the battery to peak capacity while it could. Since the car cannot possibly know what's ahead, I think the safest thing to do is to top off the battery. So I think you are right.

    "New topic: The time my headlights ran down the hybrid battery..."

    I know that the traction motor is used to charge both batteries. There is no seperate alternator on this car. Now with your headlights on, you would be depleting the 12V accessory battery under the hood. Perphaps the computer sensed this drain, and directed the ICE to start, charging the 12V battery. But that doesn't explain the graphics showing you a depleting traction battery. Hmm... I'll have to look into this question a bit more throughly and get back to you...
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    Hmm,... Well, It seems I have two choices here.
    I can agree with you based on what your senses tell you is going on under the hood, or I can agree with the manufacturer.

    I think I'll go with the manufacturer on this one spunjurno! With all due respect, I think the engineers who built the thing can give us a more accurate description of what is going on.

    If you are correct, that would mean that Honda is, well, just plain lying about the product. What would be the point of that?

    Fact is, when you turn the key to the OFF position, you are doing alot. You are shutting off power to the electrical motor used for steering assist, you are shutting down the electric fuel pump, inverters, panel electronics, etc., all of which contribute to the sound you hear in the car. The difference is more than you think.

    If you want to prove your theory, come up with some way to measure the pressure of the exhaust at the tailpipe. Maybe a small trapped door that will open with the pressure of combustion while the engine is running, and stay closed when it is not. Perhaps a small remote camera strategically located can record the events. The valves stay closed when the engine is shutoff so there should be no exhaust pressure,... well..., according to the manufacturer! :-)
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    "...I think that at some point, you just have to let the car's electronics manage things..."

    Well certainly you can't go too horribly wrong with that strategy since the engineers did a pretty good job designing this car. But until engineers are able to come up with an electronic clairvoyance feature, then there will always be room for the driver to improve performance by intervening. Naturally, the car has no idea whether you're at a stop sign and about to climb a steep hill, or whether you're about to go down a steep hill with a stop sign at the bottom. In the first scenario you would want the battery charged as much as possible. But in the second scenario you want it sufficiently discharged to accept all the energy you're about to put in. (I think I might be echoing what you already said.) Since the car doesn't know, it tries to compromise a little so as to be acceptable for either case, which also makes it less than ideal for both cases. That's where the smart driver comes in, who has the ability to properly anticipate the upcoming situation and better adjust for it. And improve mileage as a result.

    "...Running on the battery alone is not a "feature" I would think Honda provided as a benefit. I think it is more likely a loophole in their hybrid control algorithm. If it were a "feature" I think they would advertise it as such..."

    Well I know Toyota advertises that the Prius does it. It seems they think this helps the overall mileage. If follows that the competitor would have also wanted to design in a similar feature.

    "...Now, based on your theory, the battery will charge fully, leaving no place to put the energy gathered by regenerative braking when I stop..."

    No, not really. I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't leave ANY room left. But it doesn't leave much! Mine often continues to charge off and on until NEAR full charge, according to the display. It leaves very little room left for certain situations, like the case I described in post #56 on this board.

    "...I know that the traction motor is used to charge both batteries. There is no separate alternator on this car..."

    Right. But I wonder if the car maybe has a simple DC to DC converter to help recharge the 12V battery with the hybrid battery under such conditions. That would explain the discharge that I saw.
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    "...If you are correct, that would mean that Honda is, well, just plain lying about the product..."

    Well, not really lying. Perhaps they shutdown MOST of the fuel injectors and only leave on enough to be able to continue to idle. Or maybe they drastically limit the fuel to the injectors so that it burns very little fuel while idling. In order to simplify the point, the manufacturer might just say that they shutoff the fuel and consider the difference to be splitting hairs.

    Maybe what I'll do to prove this to myself is wait for cool weather when you can see condensation in the tailpipe exhaust. I can either try to see the exhaust in my sideview mirror (or add a second strategically placed mirror) or have someone follow behind to see if it stops coming out the tailpipe when I idle.
  • albalmaalbalma Member Posts: 10
    The engine goes off when cruising by on battery power at low speeds, which is confirmed by the engine starting when you depress the pedal to accelerate.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    "Perhaps they shutdown MOST of the fuel injectors and only leave on enough to be able to continue to idle. Or maybe they drastically limit the fuel to the injectors so that it burns very little fuel while idling. In order to simplify the point, the manufacturer might just say that they shutoff the fuel and consider the difference to be splitting hairs."

    I would agree that that might be a possibility if it were not for the context in which this information is presented. In the animation I presented earlier, Honda also says that in this mode, the engine's valves remain closed and it's cylinders sealed, to avoid pumping losses. You can't do that if the combustion process is still active,... even just a little bit. So taken as a whole, I would still bet that Honda's description of their engine operation is accurate.

    Here is the animation again. I can find many other examples stating the same:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmDkc8SEvwc&feature=related
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    "(I think I might be echoing what you already said.) "

    Yes, you did but that's ok!

    "Well I know Toyota advertises that the Prius does it. It seems they think this helps the overall mileage. If follows that the competitor would have also wanted to design in a similar feature. "

    I'm not sure that Toyota thinks that this helps the overall mileage. I think that most people who buy hybrids think that the more it operates like a "real" electric vehicle, the better. So it might help sales. As a "feature", it would allow the driver to implement his or her own "clairvoyance feature" as you suggest, but somehow I doubt if Toyota predicted that people would try and operate the car in this manner. (Only techo-geeks like you and me reverse engineer things like this!)

    I've never owned a Prius but I have rented them while traveling or just for fun on many occasions. The only time that I have seen a Prius operate on battery alone was when starting off or going really slow. I think I got a 2006-2009 Prius up to about 18 or 20mph before the ICE came on if you accelerate real gently. Never seen electric only operation any other time.
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    "...Only techo-geeks like you and me reverse engineer things like this!..."

    Well, I hear that you can't spell "geek" without a double E ! ;-)
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Well I know Toyota advertises that the Prius does it. It seems they think this helps the overall mileage. If follows that the competitor would have also wanted to design in a similar feature. "

    It is not really possible to compare the Toyota HSD with the Honda IMA. The Toyota system is designed such that the battery can drive the transmission without the engine turning. With the Honda, the engine is always turning. Completely different technology and design philosophy.

    The Ford system is similar to Toyota; it can run the vehicle by electric alone at speeds up to 40 MPH. After that, the engine is turning, even if it is not using any gas.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    Have you seen all of the comparison reviews on youtube? All the articles in print comparing the two vehicles? Ya know like MotorTrend, Car and Driver?

    The bottom line is that they're both hybrids Steve. The engineering details don't change the fact that they were both designed with the same purpose in mind. I assure you they can be compared.

    Let's see:

    The 2010 Prius has a EPA mileage rating of 51/48 while the 2010 Honda Insight has a EPA mileage rating of 40/43.

    See? I just did it myself! :-)
  • top_speedtop_speed Member Posts: 1
    My 2010 Insight graphically displays its current MPG on the dash while its running. It always displays more than 50 miles per gallon cruising at 60 MPH (on level ground). I'm on the highway almost exclusively as a daily commuter.

    My Insight displays its overall miles per gallon on the dash as soon as I turn the key in the ignition: 46.8 MPG

    Either way, the 40/43 numbers seem off to me.

    It's astonishing to me that the EPA (a government agency) could have possibly made a mistake.
  • kidsidkidsid Member Posts: 10
    I'm averaging 44.3 MPG on my 2010 Insight EX.

    I have rented a Prius for as long as a week and averaged about 46 MPG. Not sure why the EPA estimate seem low for the Insight. I believe their test procedures are the same for all vehicles, but the hybrids have different modes that they can be put in. They never mention what the mode the hybrid vehicles were in during the testing.

    I read somewhere that their tests require that no special mode be engaged. Don't know if this is true. If it is, then ECO mode, Sport mode or EV mode would not be engaged on Prius or Insight.

    Perhaps you could take your Insight out of ECO mode for a week and see if you get results that are closer to the EPA's results. Let us know your findings.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    edited September 2011
    "The bottom line is that they're both hybrids Steve. The engineering details don't change the fact that they were both designed with the same purpose in mind. I assure you they can be compared. "

    They cannot be compared in terms of the design. It takes a bit of study about how they were engineered. There were some statements being made that did not match the engineering.

    One can compare mileage if you like, but that does not change the way the two system achieve that MPG - which is totally different. Yes, they both have batteries and electric motors, but they are used in radically different fashion. If you are not interested in the technical details, that is OK by me, but some people are interested...
  • as2010insightas2010insight Member Posts: 7
    I have a camry hybrid (2008) and an insight (2010) so I have lots of experience with both drive systems. Although the pure electric Toyota mode feels very cool (like when searching for street parking and circling the block using zero gas), even with the gas on all the time, the Honda gets amazing mileage. I find the Honda takes more practice to pull really high mileage, but that said it feels like the more you try, the more it delivers. To avg more then 40 mpg with the Toyota seems futile, whereas I am at 57.6 avg over the last 14000 miles and it feels like if I wanted to I could get even higher numbers. I have to agree with those who note the EPA numbers seem wrong - but it is wrong for both cars, so perhaps it is the hybrid driving style they don't properly apply that returns these results.

    As a side note, I have been amused by the dialog between you and spunjorno. You seemed spot on in your technical analysis in your initial response about pure electric use to get highest mileage in the insight, but his empirical approach delivers better milage. I tried to test using assist more to get more mpgs, but found I got much less. The reason was I had to use more throttle to get more boost. Following his suggestions, most of which I actually learned from the "Shell answer man" in the 60's, gives the best mileage regardless of vehicle. The advantage the Honda has is it's coach shows instantaneous mileage vs avg very clearly so you can set easy to monitor goals.
  • quo_vadisquo_vadis Member Posts: 1
    I heard from the dealer that when the EPA testing is done ECON mode is not used. I do not believe that the ECON mode would have that much bearing on the fuel economy.
    My note is that it really makes a difference driving 50-55 as opposed to 65-70. Economy drops from 57mpg to 46mpg.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    For understanding the hybrid 'psychology' of driving, seriously great analogy re the stored battery-energy being like a $5 you found in your pants pocket that you forgot was there. (but let's make it a $20, why not?)
  • jshowjshow Member Posts: 2
    So far so good with the mpg listing. I have the 2011 Honda Insight LX as a second commuter car. With the stock steel wheels and Dunlop Tires I was averaging about 38 overall with mix freeway and city.

    I changed wheels and tires about 2000 miles ago to lighter alloy wheels by konig and put the bridgestone ecopia 422 tires on. Now I am getting 41.5 overall. On one mostly freeway trip to Vegas I got it up to 46.5 mpg. So unlike US brands (GMC) I think Honda really states the correct MPG's.

    Great lower cost alternate to Prius, funner to drive, lighter, looks better, more front legroom (No weird Middle Console thing). But seats could be better quality.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,971
    edited November 2011
    I found the front seat pretty uncomfortable for my bad spine and was not much more comfortable in the back seat on a small ride. The headrest was also canted a bit to forward which created immediate neck pain so unless they change the seats, this car is one I could never own. Also found the rear split hatch window difficult to see out of, not a deal breaker but didn't feel safe looking out the rear. A shame to because I really wanted to like this car and the stellar mpg's are just a bonus...I also did not want to get a Prius for the extra price plus the weird dash layout. So I'll keep on truckin' in my '06 Civic, which is still in great shape and tightly screwed together with nary a rattle or squeak...it does help that I am the sole driver of it 99% of the time. And besides my son coming home for a few days/year, that's the way it'll stay!

    Just like you, I had changed out the stock steelies to a set of '05 SI alloys and am wondering if in fact my mpg's improved with that swap? I don't keep detailed mileage records so have no idea if this could be true...hopefully it has helped. The highway mileage ain't to bad but my city driving has been always around 30 from my quick computations...in specs to be sure but nothing to write home about but not worth it to trade for a few more mpg's.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • johnobviousjohnobvious Member Posts: 2
    Sandman, 30mph in city? You must drive pretty aggressively. I have 5,500 miles on my 2011 and have averaged 45 overall, almost all city. I do keep detailed records and what I calculate and what the car says is at least 2 mpg off. Car says almost 47 but that is high.
  • as2010insightas2010insight Member Posts: 7
    I have to agree - the computer showed my recent 15000 miles achieved 57.4 MPGs (I have about 60K on this 30 month old vehicle), I had to drive pretty conservatively to achieve that, but if I drive as aggressively as I can I don't see how I could average 30.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,971
    No, hardly drive at all. My trips are usually under 10 miles with constant a/c usage. On the expressway, averaging 36 or so but stop and go city with a/c...30 or 31 tops. But not really a problem as I do a full tank every 3 to 4 weeks since October 2010. And now with season officially in full swing, traffic in South Florida will be that much worse resulting in longer traffic delays and worse mpg's for all. The price we pay for living in paradise!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • billintoobillintoo Member Posts: 1
    Just throwing my hat into the ring... I have a 2010 Insight EX dealer demo model I bought in May of 2011. Started out with something like 10 miles on the odometer. Since then, I've racked up 11K miles, and my average is 44.0 MPG, at least according to the dash display. My commute is 35 miles each way, mostly on the highway, but maybe 7 miles on local roads. On days when I'm just cruising along with little traffic, I can get it up to 51 MPG, but short trips and stop and go traffic really kill the mileage, obviously. I drive with the Econ mode all the time, although according to Consumer Reports, it doesn't make much of a difference in mileage since drivers naturally fight the softer acceleration. Curious to see how much the MPG suffers now that winter's here in NY.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,971
    Honestly, besides the great mileage, how do you really like the car as a daily driver? Does it put a smile on your face? I know my '06 Civic still does that even though I yearn for a 2004 to 2009 Lexus RX330...it's a blast to throw around when needed and it does everything right except having very uncomfortable front seats. I now look for seat comfort as I have some intense spinal issues and I need comfort first and foremost...the RX covers that area nicely and I'd happily pay the premium to own one and drive it. Just not ready to pull the trigger since my Civic has yet to break the 33k mark and it does everything else right, seems silly to trade it in as I know I won't get all that much for it. I'd love to get $10k and put that down on a $20k RX...if that would be the case, I'd sign right now!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • cinny17cinny17 Member Posts: 1
    I've had the 2011 for almost 2 weeks now and i'm not seeing mileage anywhere near what the sticker suggested. i'm getting about 33 mpg. driving in both city and highway. i'm watching the green on the speedometer (which i guess is where you should try to keep it) but wondering if there's a certain way to drive hybrids? what am i doing wrong? bought it specifically for the mpg and chose it over the prius b/c of the price, not to mention their stupid console design.
  • dnatechdnatech Member Posts: 25
    Hi,
    I got a new 2012 Insight in Nov. 2011 with now about 2000 miles. I drive very conservatively, that is 55 mph in 55 zones & 60-65 on highhway. I try to keep my RPM under 2000, mostly stays around 1500 where it's flat. The car gets good mileage at about 50 mpg doing the "real"math with Excel after fill ups.(display says 52 mpg).
    As you mention, keep the green light on, use the eco mode (never driven the car without it) and avoid sudden acceleration.
    You really should get more than 33 mpg.
    Good luck.
    P.S. I did notice I loose mileage when it's get really cold, like 20 F.
  • albalmaalbalma Member Posts: 10
    edited February 2012
    You should keep in mind that during the winter your mileage goes down. Also, if you commute long distances with a lot of highway traveling, you will get much better mileage than if you only move short distances in a town. My town average must be about 38, driving conservatively, but I do have a big hill to go up in the 2.5 miles to work, so no green there if I want to keep the guys behind me off my fender. However, I use a lot less gas per month than when I was driving 22 miles each way to work and getting about 45 mpg (driving at 70mph, which is not efficient). If you are driving between 40 and 60 for most of your drive on a highway, you should get up to 70mpg or so. The perfect conditions are hard to get. If you want to get the best mpgs out of your car, you should:
    - Ease off the gas and do not try to go 0-60 fast, but rather accelerate slowly.
    - If you are cruising, get the feeling for the accelerator, so you are in the right place for your speed. It is a bit tricky, but doable: You need to decelerate a little, so your car stops accelerating and is just barely keeping the speed you are at. It is easy to give your engine more gas than it needs.
    - Some people recommend accelerating past the speed at which you want to go, and letting go of the gas a bit so the car slows down very slightly, then accelerating again when the speed goes a few miles/hour under the speed you want to go at.
    - Let your batteries charge when breaking, break early and stop slowly.
    - The engine takes a while before it "loosens" to its maximum efficiency, so wait until you are past the first 10-12,000 miles to get the best mpg.

    Finally, if you are commuting a short distance, don't worry, the best way to save gas is by not using it. In any case, with your hybrid you should be getting the best mpg for your driving style, whichever it may be, the key is adapting your style to the best mpg you can get.
  • dnatechdnatech Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for the tips "albalma", I'll keep that in mind.
    I noted that "cinny 17" did not acknowledged any of the replies, I must be old fashioned I guess......
  • garydingarydin Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2010 Insight. When driving on a flat area, constant speed over distance the MPG is optimal. If I drive with lead foot with Econ off and over speed about 85 it get the worse MPG. Cruise control with Econ and using Paddle shifts provides good MPG. Just a couple days ago I tried no Econ, no cruise, and no Paddle shifts. I used the instant MPG gage altered my speed to maintain 50 + MPG. I live in a flat almost hill free area. But, when I approached rises I simply gently let the speed slow down to keep 50 MPG. My speed range from a high 75 mph to a low on steep rises of 58 mph. But, I was able drive based on not speed but MPG. My question is why don't we have a cruise control that imitate what I did? Only diff would be an ability to set the acceptable low speed to avoid extreme slow downs on steep grades. Essentially a dual mode cruise control , one to maintain set speed and another to maintain set MPG. Note when manually altered speed maintain MPG it did get about 48 MPG. Of course this was all Interstate driving. Also, I know that Econ mode does smooth out acceleration with or without cruise. But, it doesn't seem to consistent and best I ever achieved with econ and cruise is about 43 mpg. What do you Think?
  • albalmaalbalma Member Posts: 10
    Hello,

    I think if you just bought the car you will definitely get less mpgs than if you let it run for about 10 to 15,000 miles, which is when people seem to start getting the best mileage. I have been able to get 50+mpg for the time it takes to re-fill the tank (with a winter average of about 40mpg and a summer average of about 48-50mpg), it is very hard for me to judge though because the landscape we normally drive through is somewhat rough. On a flat surface, I do get about 50-60mpg at about 50-60, in slower speeds and without acceleration, but just maintaining speed, I can get up to 100mpg, especially around 30-35 m/h. I will try without the econ, though when stopping you need the engine to go off, so maybe disengage it for highways? I hope it works better. Thank you!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A news reporter would like to talk with hybrid car owners in Northern California. If you fit the description, please contact pr@edmunds.com by Wednesday, April 25, 2012.
  • john57110john57110 Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

    I posted the consumer review for this vehicle shortly after I purchased in Nov 11. Since then, I can honestly say I have only grown fonder of this vehicle. After experimenting with different driving styles and techniques I have now increased my per tank average (calculated by fillup) to 52 mpg. I consistently average 65 mpg (MID indicated) on my mostly highway commute. Initially I kept my speed around 58 to 60 mph but now I am able to achieve the same at 65 mph. I attribute some of this to warmer weather, more miles on the vehicle and now running synthetic after 1st oil change at 7800 miles. Best calculated tank was 56.7 mpg for 370 miles. I have found that this car doesn't necessarily have to be driven slow but best mpg seems to be at 2000 to 2200 rpm, which for me is 65mph, above that it drops substantially.
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    So now I've had my Insight for over two years. I wanted to post my mileage to date. This is not the MPG # shown on the dash -- it is my actual gas mileage:

    The car has 34529 miles. The total overall gas mileage over that time is 52.7 MPG.

    My best and worst tanks were: 58.7 MPG and 45.9 MPG.

    I think that they should re-evaluate how they approximate the MPGs when they test hybrids. This one is stated to be 44, but I've never been able to get it that low. I know many Prius owners who have said the same thing.

    They say, "your mileage may vary". But on other cars I've owned (that were NOT hybrids) my average was always within a couple MPGs higher or lower than the stated figure. This one is WAAAAY off. The test must unfairly punish hybrids in general.
  • cherilyncherilyn Member Posts: 1
    I now have a 2010 Honda Insight EX that I bought used (had 27,000 miles on it). For the nearly 5,000 miles I have driven, I have gotten 54.3 mpg (according to dashboard Trip B calculations). This includes a trip from near Austin, TX, through Las Vegas, NV, up to Reno, NV, over the Sierras to Ukiah, CA and then down I-5 to I-10 and back home again.

    I had owned a 2000 Honda Insight that I bought used (had 11,000 miles on it w/ 42.1 mpg for life). I put another 222,000 miles on it and ended with 58.0 mpg for life. So, I have some experience driving the Honda Hybrid, which may account for my being able to tolerate the GREEN indicator in the new one.

    My first Honda was a 600 Sedan, then 600 Hadtchback all the way back to 1970. I got 42 mpg on my best trip, even then. Bought a new Civic CVCC in 1978, have owned a couple more Civic and even an Accord. Have never gotten below 30 mpg in any Honda that I owned, in all those years the US Car Makers said they couldn't do it.

    I would have loved to own one of the Smart cars with the diesel engine when it was 70 mpg, but not now. Being single, the two-seater never caused me a problem. It hauled my skis and dog kennel. The 5 seater model feels heavier, especially when at a stop light that starts out going up hill!

    BTW, I run my A/C at 78 degrees in the car. Sometimes, in the Texas heat, I have to lower it to 74, because the sun just broils you coming in the window. Have not figured out how to make the engine start again when in Auto Stop (I know, take your foot off the brake, but when you're stopped, that is dangerous). Never had a problem in the old Insight Manual Transmission. If someone else was in the car, I could pop it into first and the engine would engage so the A/C would cool them off.

    Have always loved the Honda quality. Impressed when 4 of us owned the Honda 600 models, and if one person's clutch went at 35,000 miles, then we all knew ours would go about the same time. When a timing chain (remember those) went at 60,000 miles for a friend, mine went at 60,055. That is truly quality engineering.

    Only had my 2010 Insight two months, so still getting used to it. But I'm happy so far!
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    I believe if you turn off the ECO green button, the engine will not go into autostop when the AC is on (or will only autostop for a short time before kicking back on).
  • mrammingmramming Member Posts: 2
    How do you get the MPG to date on 2010-up Insight? I bought mine with 22k miles, but the previous owner did not do anything 'eco' friendly in his driving, did not even use the econ mode at all. He said he was getting 45 MPG, but I never get less than 48, unless I am doing 70 on a long highway trip.
  • mrammingmramming Member Posts: 2
    It will not go into autostop with the A/C on or the front defroster on. I also noticed on very humid or rainy days autostop either does not engage, or it only works for about 30 seconds then the engine comes back on.
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    mramming - When I was talking about my lifetime mileage, I wasn't getting this information off the dashboard. It was actual calculated mileage by dividing miles by the gallons used (from the gas station pump). If you bought yours with 22k, you probably don't have that info from the previous owner unless he left his mileage recording book in the glove box. The only thing you might have is the dash info, unless he (or you) have cleared it.

    Remember, you have two trip odometers (A & B). I traditionally reset 'A' every time I fill up so that I can see the (car's computer calculated, but not very accurate) mileage of every tank. I don't reset the 'B' mileage. So on my car, the 'B' mileage is (almost) the car computer calculated lifetime average - almost, because I reset it by accident once early on.
  • spunjornospunjorno Member Posts: 45
    On rainy and humid days it won't go into autostop IF YOU HAVE THE VENTILATION ON. Turn off ALL of the HVAC and it will then go into autostop, and will stay in autostop regardless of weather conditions (unless the engine is cold or your stopped on a hill). But for this to work, you must have turned off the HVAC BEFORE stepping on the brake. If you turn off the HVAC after pressing the brake, it will do the same thing as if you didn't turn off the HVAC. Give that a try.
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