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Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid

24

Comments

  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    That's one of the most incomprehensible reviews I've ever seen...

    "The Honda also has some additional safety features such the three point seat belts, with automatic tensioning system, standard adjustable front seat belt anchors, standards driver and passenger seat belt reminders, standard vehicle stability assist with traction control, standard brake assist, tire pressure monitoring system, standard anti lock braking system, side impact door beams, child seat tether anchor."

    Aren't most of these things required by law? What is the last car you saw that didn't remind you to put on the seat belt?

    "When it comes to torque@RPM however there is a difference. The Malibu is 160@4500, the Camry is 161@4000, and the accord is 161@4300."

    Some difference, 1 foot pound. Renee, Renee, Renee... I hope they didn't pay you to write this review.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Look at what Camry Hybrid's are going for and what the feature content is. They're headed down to the $23-$24 level. Before the $2600 tax credit (which I got) I paid around $26 for mine, but it has features that aren't available on the Malibu. The 2007 Camry was much closer to the Camry XLE than anything else. People have widely misundertood the TCH for that reason, and compared it to a base Camry as if it is apples to apples. Its not.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    It boils down to simple stupidity for me. I mean come on. What's the point of creating a car with a hybrid engine, if it's not going to provide any better gas mileage? WTF should I even bother with a hybrid that's no better than a standard engine vehicle?

    Come on Chevy. You enter the hybrid scene with something this stupid. Why waste the resources and money of R&D on something that provides the consumer with no gain? Plain stupidity. No wonder they are having financial troubles.

    If I'm going to spend the money on a hybrid, it's going to get significantly better gas mileage. It would just be a waste of money to buy a Malibu Hybrid. They should just remove the line and move on.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Member Posts: 872
    The Malibu Hybrid does provide about a 10% increase in fuel economy, but by the same token the cost is about 10% greater than a base model...so somewhat of a wash there I suppose. The benefit I see for this model would be for someone like myself who will be trading in a 2000 Impala, so the gas mileage increase from my current car to the Malibu hybrid will be more like 25%.

    I agree that the Prius, though slightly smaller in all dimensions than the 2008 Malibu, makes more sense...both dollar-wise and environmentally. However, from what I've seen the Prius models on local dealer lots tend to be optioned up to the point that their prices fall more in the $25k+ window instead of closer to $22k, which begins to erode the financial benefits of the Prius. Probably smart on Chevy's part to limit the options on the Malibu hybrid, since it's price becomes more or less static.

    Availability of the Saturn Aura Hybrid has been limited, and I suspect the Malibu Hybrid will be the same...whether that's a marketing, production, or demand decision I don't know; but I'd guess they're offering the hybrid to have something out there, but they really won't ramp up production and push the hybrid models until they get a plug-in and/or two-mode hybrid out in a couple of years.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    10% gain is nothing. You can get a 10% increase simply by changing where you get gas or by driving differently.

    They should have spent the money on a true hybrid that was better than what is out there from the other manufacturers.

    Spending it to simply say "Hey look, we have a hybrid" is dumb.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Member Posts: 872
    With CAFE standards as they are, I suspect even a gain of 10% helps. I drove a previous generation Saturn Vue hybrid with this similar setup, and I didn't notice much difference between driving it and a standard version. From what I've read the Prius/Camry hybrids draw a lot of attention to their "hybridness" in terms of performance, braking, etc. If the Malibu hybrid is more transparent in that regard, it might appeal to a more mainstream buyer. Considering there's no other domestic hybrid sedan out there other (other than the Saturn Aura), maybe GM figures having something to offer, even if it's not a "true" hybrid, is better than nothing at all.

    From what I've read the 2008 Saturn Vue will have the same basic setup as the Aura/Malibu, but I think I read that by the next year they may offer a true dual-mode hybrid, and the year after that they may offer a plug-in hybrid version (albeit one that will only deliver about 10 miles of driving on a charge). I'm hopeful something similar is coming for sedans as well; my commute one-way to work is about 12 miles, so if I could cover almost half that with electric alone and cut my gas consumption in half that'd be pretty impressive. Still not as good as what the Volt promises, but every little bit helps.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Member Posts: 872
    You're also right that a 10% gain could be made by driving differently, but if mild hybrids help avoid the reintroduction of a mandatory 55 MPH speed limit, I'm all for it!
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I think its design is superbly functional and eschews any unnecessary "form over function" visual gadgetry. This aspect of it may attract people more that its visual uniqueness.

    I guess you may not have seen the dash on the Prius.It reminds of a Christmas tree.Dont misunderstand,I actually like it,but I doubt it was designed with function in mind.
    As to the Chevy Hybrid...it it gets an honest 24 MPG in city driving,it might be worth it,but 32 Hwy is pretty low.I get better than that on my very conventional KIA Optima with the 2.4 engine and 5 speed Auto.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    GM has done this before. Coming out with a "hybrid" that really doesn't doesn't do much but allow GM to say they have a hybrid vehicle in their lineup. Remember the Chevy hybrid truck?

    I'll give credit where credit is due; the new Malibu is a worthy competitor to the Accord and Camry and that's quite an accomplishement for GM. But putting a hybrid option out there with a 10% gain in fuel effeciency is rediculous.

    hybrid pro: better fuel economy (not much to cheer about here)
    hybrid cons: added weight and less room in vehicle. added up front cost. added maintenence down the road. added uncertainty with a technology that GM hasn't had much experience in.
  • cruiser69cruiser69 Member Posts: 40
    I agree. Well said. Proper maintenance and slowing down all contribute to better economy. Some mild aftermarket parts and tuning can help even more so lets squeeze more out of what we have and we will end up saving more fuel than driving the same way in a hybrid, with some exceptions of course. Of course driving 55 would help hybrids and all vehicles get better mileage but the thought of crawling along in huge packs at that speed would be terrible in this day and age.

    Although i do not agree with people doing 80 miles an hour on the Chicago toll roads in heavy traffic either. Yes, it can be done by flying down the shoulder to avoid traffic and it happens much too often! Not that i have ever done that of course, well maybe once.... :shades:
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    Personally, I think what they should have done instead this type of hybrid junk, is to have a diesel option. Diesel seems to be a better deal than hybrid. Add bio diesel on top of that and well, I think it would be better.
  • kingacreskingacres Member Posts: 1
    A hybrid car that only gets 32 mpg (max) is completely pointless - like so much else that comes from Detroit these days.
    We are probably going to be paying $5.00/gal within 2 years. Why would I buy Malibu when a Prius will best its mileage by 50% to 75% (if you are a typical urban freeway crawler).
    Pointless. I wouldn't even take a first look at a Malibu.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    King,
    I agree that 32MPG Hwy is nothing special...but I wonder how is the real world city mileage is...
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    It's sole purpose is for Chevy to say "Look, we have a hybrid". It's not designed to give you a true hybrid option like that of the Prius. It's a waste of R&D funds and a waste of production cost and a waste of our money. It's no wonder American automakers are in such trouble financially. They keep doing stupid things like this.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    They say the tax credit returns most of the extra cost of the Hybrid, so it won't take that long to get the remaining extra cost back from fuel savings even if you only gain 2 MPG.
  • jeromebjeromeb Member Posts: 31
    Scortch, the market, the hundreds of millions of people in the world who might buy a new car of the 2008 model year, is fickle. The people who want to spend too much to get a full hybrid that delivers 50 mpg bought the Prius and never got their 50 mpg in regular use. They were consistently chagrined that the Corolla, not even pretending to be a hybrid, gets 40 mpg and establishes a darned solid baseline of comparison.
    Since the 2008 Malibu hybrid is a hybrid assist, doesn't do much, but does do something measurable, it needs to be a cheap option. It is . Back when the Prius was a new choice, I calculated that the payoff time for me was 10 years if the Prius delivered 50 mpg. At 45 or thereabouts mpg, the Prius battery pack can't last long enough for the Prius to ever break even in the Corolla comparison. The Malibu might not impress the eco-purists with it's technological whiz-banginess, but for the green eye shades crowd its a more realistic choice than a Prius. The Malibu hybrid assist actually can deliver tangible $ benefits if you keep it for a realistic number of years of $3 and $4 gasoline. As the market has developed, it's become obvious that other than a small part of the population which wants to pay too much for too little economic benefit, the market really wants cars that look good and go fast. The market is telling the manufacturers that some people will buy a hybrid if it looks better and goes faster than a Prius. For people who want a car that gets good gas mileage in 2008, there is the 40 mpg cheap Corolla or the even better choice of a 38 mpg cheaper Aveo.

    I have and remain convinced that GM, putting 2-stage hybrids in pickups and SUV's will sell better at 20 mpg than Toyota or Honda can at 45 mpg. The 20 mpg pickup is a 25% or 30% improvement. The 45 mpg subcompact is only an 12% improvement.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    It's still a huge waste of R&D, time and our money. It doesn't produce enough measurable results to be worth everything that went into making it and buying it.

    GM probably got some huge credit for doing it and that's the only reason.

    It's a worthless piece of junk that's trying to capitalize on people that see hybrid and don't know that GM is ripping them off with something that isn't worth a crap.

    You can get more measurable results by just driving a little differently or buying better fuel.

    GM is just trying to play people for fools and some will play along with them and buy into it.

    It's a scam, just like E85 is.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    You can get more measurable results by just driving a little differently or buying better fuel.

    You can probably get more fuel savings just by walking to the store to get your groceries instead of driving. In addition you will get the health benefit. ;)
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    exactly

    I went to the car show here in San Jose. Chevy probably spends more money promoting how "green" they are than they actually do on the technology.

    It's like Exon talking about how they "care" about alternative forms of energy.

    Mitt Romney says he's going to save Michigan? LOL :sick:
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    And you think Toyota doesn't spend a bunch of money promoting how green they are?

    Btw, check the EPA ratings on the GM Tahoe/Yukon/Suburbans and then check the EPA rating on Toyota's new Sequoia and Land Cruiser. You might be surprised about which ones are more efficient.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    Yea but, Toyota has the Prius and Camry hybrid. They have a right to promote them being green.

    GM's E85 doesn't count as being green. In fact, it's not green at all when you look at the whole picture of corn based ethanol.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    everybody sells gas hogs

    but not everybody sells hybrid vehicles that are worth their weight.

    I'm not sure how you can fault Toyota for their effort in being 'green' - there isn't another car maker doing it better than them when it comes to selling hybrids.

    which brings me back to the Malibu Hybrid and any other hybrid or "green" product sold by GM - it's just spin with no substance.
  • nosirrahgnosirrahg Member Posts: 872
    I tend to agree with you, but I think the Volt could be a game changer (assuming it arrives on time, and delivers on GMs promises).

    I wonder if due to the new CAFE standards if GM is trying to put a little hybrid into everything they do? Even if each only increases mileage marginally, a small gain across the board is probably more beneficial to their bottom-line than having a bunch of gas guzzlers and one knock-out hybrid.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    The Volt will more than likely be out of reach of most people, if it ever arrives. It'll be another 5-10 years at this rate.

    Thing is, if GM is going to spend all that R&D money on bringing a hybrid into existence for GM vehicles, why not do it right instead of the crap they came up with? If they really wanted to be green, it would be a lot better than the junk they have.

    It would be MUCH more beneficial to their bottom line if they did it right to begin with.

    The government should require hybrids to get xx more mileage than the equivalent gas only version of a vehicle, before they give any kind of credits or be recognized at all. Maybe we need a new category other than hybrid, since GM has proven that just because it is a hybrid, doesn't mean it's green or better.

    The Malibu hybrid should be getting 34 or so city mileage at least. Even the Prius is finding it hard to justify the cost of ownership in some cases. The Malibu hybrid would no near be able to justify it's cost of ownership. It puts more of a burden on the consumer instead of helping them.

    It's just like E85, just because it uses a different fuel, doesn't make it better. E85 as it is currently isn't that green at all once you look at the big picture of corn based ethanol.

    Trying to pull one over on the public and saying you are green doesn't make you green.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    What amazes me is how dependable and trouble free the Toyota Hybrid system has been when you consider it's complexity. We have some friends with an older Prius with over 100 K miles and they havent had a single problem. CR predicts reliability above average...excellent. This applies to the Japanese made cars as well as the Ford Escape which uses the same system.

    Why cant GM come up with a similar system? The 2MPG increase is a joke. :blush:
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    That is if it really does get 2MPG more.
  • golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    Toyota has set the benchmark for hybrids, let the battle begin. GM's attempt at hybrids is laughable, at this pace they will never catch Toyota. Ford's hybrid is actually Toyota's first generation hybrid system. Ford wanted to get in the game quickly and purchased their hybrid from Toyota and paid big $$.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    gm tahoe's two mode hybrid is more advanced than prius'. tahoe 21/22 rating is day and night better than sequoia's 14/19 rating. think it is low? it is the same as camry 4cylinder city. it can haul 8 people, 6000lbs, 6.0ltr v8. it is very EFFICIENT.

    toyota make great small cars. look at prius and assume it is gas-only you would expect it get 30 city, (for its size, functionality, fit, versa all similar), with hybrid it has about 50% boost of fuel economy. Tahoe is the same if not more.

    Tahoe's saving of fuel is much more than prius. It has bigger environmental impact than the tiny prius.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    The only three hybrids made by Toyota are the Highlander ,Prius and Camry. If I'm wrong,it must have just come out...like today.I do know that the Highlander Hybrid gets about 30MPG.,the Prius can pretty much guarantee 44MPG all around. The Ford Escape ,using Toyota's technology gets over 30 MPG,so the 22 that Tahoe gets is a joke.Still if it actually gets 21 MPG in the city,I would be very impressed.(and surprised)
    PS if the GM system is really all that great...why is it that the AURA and the Chevy hybrids are rated no better than my conventional KIA Optima?
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    "Tahoe's saving of fuel is much more than prius. It has bigger environmental impact than the tiny prius".

    now that's spin

    Maybe they should allow the Tahoe to drive in the commuter lane? :confuse:
    LOL
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    LOL, trying ot make GM look good by comparing the Tahoe and Sequoia. Classic

    Prius, no GM equivalent
    Camry hybrid, no GM equivalent (gas mileage wise)
    Highlander hybrid, no GM equivalent

    and you want to point out Tahoe? LOL

    I like GM overall, my last 5 out of 7, including my current vehicle has been GM but, we must face reality here. They are trying to pull a fast one on people big time.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    in the full size suv/truck market, toyota does not have any hybrid offerings, when people brag about prius's milage, you have to consider that is a less capable vehicle than the full size suv. there are lot of customers in the full size vecicle segment, gm leads in that segment. period. toyota leads in the smaller vehicle segment. you do not drive larger vehicle does not mean it is nonexsist.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    "I do know that the Highlander Hybrid gets about 30MPG.,the Prius can pretty much guarantee 44MPG all around. The Ford Escape ,using Toyota's technology gets over 30 MPG,so the 22 that Tahoe gets is a joke."

    Is this how you measure efficiency without considering vehicle segment? sure you would not understand that a military tank if get 5mpg is more efficient than a prius. a honda crx 20yrs ago without hybrid gets over 40mpg. according to your logic that is very efficient., look at its size and weight. I can not believe how people read a post.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    hehe, tahoe driver does not want to drive in the commuter lane, because it is slower.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    This isn't about trucks though. This is about GM in general and in this specific case, the Malibu hybrid. In that case, the Prius and Camry more than qualify for comparisons.

    GM does not have a working hybrid that helps with fuel savings, period. They CLAIM 2 MPG more but in reality, it's no better than changing your driving habits and buying better fuel.

    Having more numbers does not mean leading. You need to look up what Toyota offers since you don't seem to know what they do offer. Either way, that's not the point.

    The point is GM's version of the hybrid is a hack job that's been cobbled together that's nothing but a scam to try and make people think they are green.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    I agree that Malibu hybrid's 2mpg gain is disappointing, it does not have a big price hike either.

    "GM does not have a working hybrid that helps with fuel savings, period. They CLAIM 2 MPG more but in reality, it's no better than changing your driving habits and buying better fuel."

    How about the buses? the coming full size suv and pickup truck will have a larger impact than the tiny prius. sure you can get 2mpg gain by changing driving habit, better fuel etc, but that is not a scientific way of measuring. everything being equal, that is the rule, and you can get 10% saving with this bas hybrid on top of what you just mentioned.

    As your comments that I do not know lot about toyota's hybrid offerings, where do you get that?

    people think toyota is greener, it is true, but not a whole lot, as it is expanding its product line to bigger vehicles. it truck is actually less efficient than gm's. their average fleet MPG is very similar to GM's. surprise?
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Buses are not the topic.

    Overall, GM's green advertising is a scam along with their hybrid offerings.

    One day, in the future, when every one else is using hydrogen, GM will come out with these fuel efficient suvs and trucks. The future is not now. Look how many years the Prius has been out and now the Camry and Highlander and Ford's hybrid offerings. GM is YEARS behind and then tries to make the people believe it's green.

    Yes, I am a GM owner too.

    I just think the Malibu hybrid is a scam. It's definitely not a TRUE hybrid in the way that Toyota has defined it and built it for the last 10+ years (7 years in the U.S.). The Prius and Camry compared to the Malibu, are more than capable of being compared to each other.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    "coming full size suv and pickup truck will have a larger impact than the tiny prius."

    I think the word "coming" should say it all when the Prius is not just here and now, but has been here and proved itself for several years with excellent ownership ratings.

    Toyota made a powerfull big gas guzzling truck because the market demanded it. They also made the Prius and created the market for the hybrid.

    The Volt looks cool, but it's just hype at this point. Being 5 years ahead in the hybrid market is a huge lead. I really don't see anything like the Prius coming from GM on the horizon. :confuse:

    If reducing the use of oil and mpg is the ultimate goal, the Tahoe hybrid isn't going to buy much.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Overall, GM's green advertising is a scam along with their hybrid offerings.

    I think the Saturn VUE is doing ok for itself. It is bigger than the Escape Hybrid and gets better mileage on the highway. The Malibu is bigger than the Camry and has 50% more trunk space. That tiny trunk in the Camry would be a deal killer for me, if I was interested in a small sedan.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary, if the Camry or Highlander forums were showing up with as many problems as the owners at the Saturn Vue Hybrids are having and reporting, you'd be ALL over Toyota.

    Go read a few issues to see what I mean.

    The database at gh.com shows the Vue Hybrid at 26 MPG and the Escape hybrid averaging in at 30.5 (2wd and 4wd included.)

    So it's last in it's class, and the most problematic for the owners. If being the worst and more troublesome in the category is "doing OK for itself" then I guess losers rule.......LOL...........
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    "Toyota made a powerfull big gas guzzling truck because the market demanded it. They also made the Prius and created the market for the hybrid. "

    "If reducing the use of oil and mpg is the ultimate goal, the Tahoe hybrid isn't going to buy much."

    A double standard is clearly shown here. Toyota doing a big gas guzzler is ok because market demanded it. GM doing a big improvement (hybrid) on the tahoe isn't going to buy much.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    i'm not sure what you don't understand

    Toyota has sold THOUSANDS of great hybrids.
    tell me what GM has done? :confuse:

    I don't have to look up the numbers - I can tell by driving down the HWY who's selling hybrids.

    I see Ford (buying into Toyota's technology) coming up with some decent choices; Honda with the Civic hybrid and Nissan with the Altima. But GM? it's all spin and laughable results up to this point.

    just to stay on topic here - the Chevy Malibu (a very nice car by the way), is offering a hybrid version that is not likely to catch on. There just isn't enough mpg for anyone to pay much attention.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    "Toyota has sold THOUSANDS of great hybrids.
    tell me what GM has done?"

    I am not sure how the total savings of the prius as compared to hundreds of gm hybrid buses in major cities. Only prius drivers care about enviromnent? buses does not count?

    GM has the two-mode hybrid technology at hand for suv/pickup truck, which consumes MUCH MORE gas than small cars, making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient. Toyota does not have anything for big trucks. If you stay in the small car segment, and laugh at what gm has been doing that is not fair, if you look at all segment, you will find gm is far greener than you think. As a matter of fact. read this ...

    "For model year 2003, DaimlerChrysler had the best domestic passenger car mileage at 29.7 mpg, followed by GM at 28.9 mpg and Ford at 27.9 mpg. The "domestic" imports (foreign manufacturer but domestic production) had superior mileage: 34.4 mpg for Honda, 28.9 for Nissan and 28.1 mpg for Toyota. For imports, the leader was Suburu at 33.0 mpg, followed by Suzuki (32.4), GM (31.9), and Honda and Hyundai (30.4). Turning to the light truck category, Suburu again proved outstanding, at 26.3 mpg. It was followed by Honda (24.7), Hyundai (24.4), Isuzu (22.3) and DaimlerChrysler (22.2). Some manufacturers earned CAFE incentives by selling alternative fuel vehicles"

    As to 10% saving from malibu hybrid is nothing, 10% price premium is nothing too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have not followed the Vue as hybrids are getting very boring. Just happened onto this site with a lot of GM bashing and thought I would correct some of the misconceptions. The Vue is bigger than the Escape closer to the Highlander and gets as good if not better highway mileage than the Highlander. I would not have one as they are way too small for comfort and safety. As is the Camry & Prius. So there are no legitimate hybrids in the class of vehicle I prefer to drive. No big deal gas is headed back down.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    How many "two mode" hybrid trucks has GM sold?

    "making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient"

    What does GM offer to someone who wants to commute to work and back and get 50 miles per gallon? I'm not saying there's not a market for a fuel efficient truck, but a truck is inherrently flawed at becoming "fuel efficient"

    If the Malibu Hybrid is an example of GM hybrid technology, what makes you think their hybrid truck will be any better?
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    No buses don't count because they have nothing to do with the discussion. GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel.

    Their hybrids are crap, especially the MALIBU HYBRID. Their E85 is a scam.

    The main discussion here is the Malibu hybrid junk though and it's being compared to the Prius and Camry hybrid, which is real hybrid technology that saves fuel. It has nothing to do with how this truck or that truck compares or about buses. Just their scam at a hybrid for the Malibu and trying to make people think they are green.
  • jntjnt Member Posts: 316
    Toyota was lucky and may be visionary when they pushed for HYBRID technology 10 years ago when gas price was $1.00/gallon. GM leadership (Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz), on the other hand, killed the EV project since they were not making on selling this vehicle. But for fairness, GM, at that time had the most advanced Electric Vehicle technology. Hybrid vehicle today is just the extension to EV of the decade ago. It was largely the short-sightedness of GM leadership in dealing with changing times: they are about 5 years behind the curve on product planning.

    But then the "greenish" Toyota that has opposed any raise on fleet CAFE. In addition, they are making bigger and more powerful engines. Selling 150K of Priuses a year would not make any dent in overall CO2 emission while selling 200K of the Tundra with gas guzzling 5.7L engine. The new HYDRID Highlander only get 26/25 MPG rating. And how about those $100K LS430H that only returns 20 MPG?. We may feel good driving these Hybrid vehicles, but the return for the investment is more than 15 years (with gas price at $3.00/gal) w/o subsidy from government. And who among us keeping 15 years old vehicle?

    Toyota, has made the most of its green image. They are not here to save the planet; They are in business to make money. And they are very good at it. Last year, they made $ US 16 Bil (about 1/2 of Exxon Mobil). They are also calling themselves "American" car company by claiming building most of their vehicles in the US. Last time I checked, about only 50% of Toyota/Lexuses sold in this country are made here. The rest is from Japan. It is no different from the tag line from Wal-Mart years ago " We buy American wherever we can".

    Car companies should have products for every price range. If one wants to get full hybrid option like the Prius or the new Two-Mode Tahoe, then pay the $5K-$10K premium for it. If the budget is ~$2K, then the mild hybrid like the current Malibu is good enough. If I have my choice, I would go for the clean Turbo Diesel like the M-B BlueTec since it offer the 30% gain in overall fuel efficiency ( in both City and Highway (not in the case of Toyota Hybrid)) and lower cost yet. In addition, it has ton of torque.

    jt
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    "What does GM offer to someone who wants to commute to work and back and get 50 miles per gallon? I'm not saying there's not a market for a fuel efficient truck, but a truck is inherrently flawed at becoming "fuel efficient" "

    GM takes care of big suv/pickup customer first, while toyota takes care small car customer first, and in my opinion, since big suv/pickup customer comsums much more gas than small car customer, the impact gm is doing is much larger than what toyota is doing.

    "If the Malibu Hybrid is an example of GM hybrid technology, what makes you think their hybrid truck will be any better? "

    This shows how much you know about hybrid, malibu uses a BAS hybrid, tahoe uses a two-mode hybrid, it is very similar to toyota's hybrid yet provide another mode for highway cruise, usually give about 10% saving on highway as well.
  • fshifshi Member Posts: 57
    "No buses don't count because they have nothing to do with the discussion. GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel. "

    If you want to stay in the discussion, it is fine, concluding "GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel. " is just too much and the conclusion can not be drew from the discussion of malibu hybrid.

    As a matter of FACT, GM sedan fleet average is 28.9 while toyota is 28.1, tell me how come GM is slightly leading with this "WAY behind automotive technology"?

    If you want to say malibu hybrid technology is behind prius', that is a valid statement, but you also need to say that malibu hybrid cost much less than prius'. that is a fair and complete statement.
  • scortchscortch Member Posts: 41
    I said behind in hybrid technology that matters.

    Toyota is ahead in that they have had the Prius for 8+ years here and they have the camry and highlander that been out for years now, while GM's vehicles remained stagnant, and still are when it comes to true hybrid and fuel savings. Heck Prius' 8+ years ahead of them more than make up for the few miles here and there that they do better in regular. Then add in Camry and Highlander.

    As far as the cost less on the Malibu hybrid, the whole point is, the hybrid they use was a TOTAL waste of time and money doing R&D and getting it into the car. Of course the POS cost less because it's worthless.

    As far as GM's all electric vehicle, well, they shoulda and coulda but they didn't, mute point.

    Making small cars more efficient is a lot better than making huge ones better. There are a LOT more of the smaller ones than those gas guzzling tanks, making smaller cars doing more to help.

    GM just talks right now, they don't really act. Oh yea, the Volt, well, it's still a to come one of these millennium type cars. They don't have a CAR right now, today, that's a true hybrid getting really great mileage.

    There ONLY reason to put out the Malibu Hybrid is to say, hey, look at us, we are green, see, we put out a hybrid. We are green, see, we put out environmentally damaging E85. Yea, look at us, we are green. We making our cars use corn based ethanol so you don't burn as much foreign oil (although we are taking your food supply with us, oh well). Don't worry about all the oil and natural gas we burn making it and transporting it. Don't worry about all the damage to the water supply and ocean from so much fertilizer being used. We gonna make it because the government pays us with your taxes to make it and we get credits.

    When GM releases hydrogen and pure electric vehicles that are affordable, to the public, then people can say GM is green.

    Yep, I agree, they need to start using the high tech diesels that burn a lot cleaner and can burn biofuel also. They would be better off with those than they would this E85 crap.
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