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Comments
I just helped my Mom buy a 2004 CR-V with 90k miles on it. This compressor problem worries me. Should I pay the Honda dealer to replace the compressor with a newer unit along with the needed lines, just to be on the safe side? I don't want my Mom stranded anywhere without AC or especially without heat this winter? Is this problem so common that a person/owner should be proactive and replace a working compressor just so it doesn't escalate into a major costly repair? Is there a part number list of what compressor you should replace the existing unit with and what lines need replacing if a person wants to do this themselves?
-T
I just helped my Mom buy a 2004 CR-V with 90k miles on it. This compressor problem worries me. Should I pay the Honda dealer to replace the compressor with a newer unit along with the needed lines, just to be on the safe side? I don't want my Mom stranded anywhere without AC or especially without heat this winter? Is this problem so common that a person/owner should be proactive and replace a working compressor just so it doesn't escalate into a major costly repair? Is there a part number list of what compressor you should replace the existing unit with and what lines need replacing if a person wants to do this themselves?
A) Blown compressor will not stop the heater from funcitoning. So, you can stop worrying about it now.
A/C is more of a luxury item, and in most cases is not a life threatening ammenity. Humans have lived without Air conditioning for millions of years, and managed to survive. There are some medical conditions that require cool dry air, but those are rare.
C) Blown A/C compressor will not leave anyone stranded anywhere. The vehicle is driveable. It may be uncomfortable, but driveable. So, you don't have to worry about it.
If you want to be proactive. Set money aside you are willing to pay for the replacement now in a high yield savings account, and take your chances.
Your chances of keeping the money are pretty high. The failure rate of the aformentioned compressors is about 2%, and mainly on Japan built CR-V's.
Good luck.
Where did you get that 2% figure from? If you're guessing at it, please let us know. If you're not, let us know a source for that. I don't think anyone on this list has a true idea of how frequent a problem this is, other than it is a systematic issue. Service departments keep these parts in stock, service reps know there is a problem, honda has helped lots of original owners with it.
Also, judgments about the utility of A/C are a personal issue, and your judgment may not pass for everyone else. For example, my wife is 8 months pregnant and is due in June. I'm not going to have her or a new born baby in a car without AC in a St. Louis summer. Your comments border on being non-constructive, overall.
Your A and C points are otherwise correct. I'd like to add that I don't think there's much point of fixing this before it happens for a few reasons. First, it may have already been done, if you're lucky. Second, the replacement parts seem to be just as prone to failure as the new parts, so try to get as much life out of what you have as you can. Third, you can't fix the major issue, which is the location of the compressor in the engine compartment. I think you have to take your chances, and realize the likelyhood is far less than the 100% that many of us here believe, but likely greater than just 2%.
By the way, I'm still waiting for the american honda rep to call me back. It's been over two weeks since I opened the case with them. The rep's poor customer service has only served to harden me more towards Honda.
That seems low given all the stuff you hear about these failures on a vehicle that isn't a huge seller like Accord or Camry. If it was that low, why would Honda be tightening up on customer assistance? It would seem to me that its happening too much so Honda can no longer afford to be as generous. I know someone who had the failure on an 03 built in England. Ironically, I just don't generally hear about AC problems in cars built in the last decade, so I'm wondering if Honda has started going on the cheap with parts quality? I own a couple of Honda's, but with this AC problem and the frequently complained about tranny problems, I'm thinking maybe I should be looking to dump them before they break and go with Toyota or Ford?
That's a bit lower than the usual Detroit numbers, which hover closer to 2%. Ford is at 1.7% for 2008 for example. Warranty Week
Naturally, one bad component will be offset by all the components that don't cause problems, keeping the overall numbers in an acceptable range. Since it costs companies a lot of money to service warranty claims, one would hope and expect to see AC compressor failures to lessen as Honda addresses the issue in newer models.
The 2% failure rate is what Honda's internal memorandum listed, that I just happen to have read. I can not reveal the memo itself, nor the source. I am sorry.
The 2% failure rate is inline with the number of posts on here. Average consumer, happy with the vehicle, unless a car nut, will not go on websites posting about such benign vehicle as CR-V, especially if it is equipped with automatic transmission (woman, 30-50 years old). You only hear posts from people who have failures.
Take the sales numbers for CR-V's sold in the USA for model years 2002-2004 and draw your own conclusions.
Just like you said, my conclusions about A/C use are personal. People were having children in St. Louis in the summer before A/C was invented, and I am sure, they will continue having children in the summer in St. Louis regardless of functioning A/C. Heck, some segments of the population don't have air conditioning and seem to do fine with having multiple children not only in St. Louis, but all over the country and the world.
I don't think location of the compressor in the engine compartment is any different than any other manufaturer. And most likely has not bearing on its service life.
I went to another local mechanic and they quoted me $1,200 for the repair and offered a 2-year warranty on parts and labor compared to the one-year warranty from the Honda dealership. I am scheduled this Wed to have the repair at my local mechanic.
I would like to thank the people who posted their not-so-good experience with Honda CRV. I just wish that I had come upon this forum before I bought my truck.
To those who have been declined by AH, try calling them again. They might help you the second time they hear from you. Or maybe try going to a local mechanic for a better deal.
I don't believe that Honda should get a pass on this simply because the faulty part is not related to the safety or basic operation of the vehicle. I believe most owners of any car bought in the last 10 years expects to get more than 50,000 to 80,000 miles out of an A/C system, with the exception of basic freon issues. I did not expect to rent an AC system for 5 years that cost far less new than as a replacement.
There are three kinds of CRV owners out there at this point for the purposes of determining the likelihood of AC failure...
A) Those who have never had an issue with the AC
Those who have had an issue and reported it here
C) Those who have had an issue and did not report it here
You are correct that I cannot determine the base rate of failure without knowing the number of cases in which a failure does not occur (A). However, it is also incorrect to assume the the remainder of CRV owners who have not posted ( A + C) here have not experienced this issue. I expect that this issue is underreported (B) exactly because it is not a safety or basic operation issue. Many people probably get the $3000+ repair bill and sell the car or don't fix it.
So, although we don't know A, we also don't know C. Your demographic based argument for A also applies to C. Sure, A is likely to be a larger group than C, but it's not as large as you implied.
Look- I don't buy 2%, and I'm a far more rational person than you give me credit for. I don't buy 50+% either. It's somewhere in between (Probably closer to 2% than 50%), it's an unfortunate mistake by Honda, and it's a major customer service issue for those who have experienced it.
Other changes would include putting manual transmissions in vehicles, which are available in other countries, but not in Honda's biggest market.
Honda is a great engineering and development company. They developed the best engines, and now robots in the world. In order to finance those R&D ventures, they have to put those engines into something. So, they developed motorcycles, cars, SUV's and airplanes to put those engines into.
Vehicle sales is just a side business. They don't make the compressors, they have someone make it for them, Denso.
As to the A/C failures, yes, they happen. It is unfortunate, but legally, Honda's liability ends when the warranty ends. Anythiing else is just icing on the cake. No other manufacturer in the world would even consider talking to people about covering out of warranty repair, even 1 mile out side of warranty.
Honda, on the other hand, does offer some relief to these people. It should be commended on that, and not complained that Joneses got more than the Smiths.
From Honda's point of view, these are the factors that go into detemining who gets what.
Someone who bought his or her Honda because they read on some forum or someone told them it was "da bomb" is not going to be a loyal customer, whether Honda pays for the complete repair or not. They have already made up their mind, and will be soured by this experience.
A loyal Honda fan, on the other hand, with proven track of Honda product ownership, will stand by the company, no matter what the outcome is. Loyal Honda buyer keeps coming back to the products not because someone said it was good, or bad, but because these products fit this particular individual's tastes and desires, and no other company has the line of products that fulfill that need.
I am the second kind of customer, I currently own: 1983 Honda Magna, 1988 Honda Prelude Si 4WS, 2005 Honda CR-V, 2004 Honda Lawmower, 2006 Honda Generator, 2008 Honda powerwasher. I have made pillgrimage to Honda headquarters in Aoyama, and have "talked" to Azimo.
Other vehicles I have owned were: 1985 Civic DX hatcback, 1987 Accord LXi, 1999 Civic EX, 2001 CR-V SE, and 2002 Civic Si. Some I end up keeping because I believe they are "one of a kind," some I sell when I am done. I still regret selling the 2002 Si, and in the process of getting one in decent shape that has not been raced.
Honda makes the products that fit me, have the features I want, and does not have the features I don't want. I belong to a Honda enthusiast club and attend meetings, gatherins, and events with other club members. Honda would be foolish to lose customers like these.
Most of the members are multiple Honda owners. Starting with Honda dirtbikes as children and over the years graduating through Honda product line to Acura NSX, or if they did well for themselves, to Honda Jets.
So, no I am not condencending, and I am sorry if I came across this way. I am just one of the millions of Honda nuts who take pride in owning the most well engineered machines in the world.
Good luck.
Whatever process Honda had for QC for the Denso compressors doesn't seemed to have worked out all that well and it has hurt their reputation. Not many people ask who the supplier was when a major component appears to fail repeatedly.
I'm a bit leery of Alps power door switches after a issue repeatedly arose with them on my Nissan minivan. It makes you wonder if the supplier is incompetent or if the manufacturer's beancounters weakened the specs to save money on the components.
What's odd to me is that you don't see similar issues with other Honda vehicles like you do for the CR-V. A few Accord owners have had failed AC compressors, but what is it about the CR-V that's frying them?
Then people will complain that their cars are too cold and they can't feel their appendages after driving for half hour. :P
What's odd to me is that you don't see similar issues with other Honda vehicles like you do for the CR-V. A few Accord owners have had failed AC compressors, but what is it about the CR-V that's frying them?
2002-2004 Civic Si, 2001-2004 Acura RSX owners have reported failed compressors. what is interesting is that Element and Accord use similar compressors, but are built in the USA, and have not had any reports of failed compressors.
Good luck to the rest of you, but it looks like Honda is going to be of decreasing help to you from here on out.
BTW, we really like our new Highlander.
I took my truck to my go-to-guy and he expressed that it was in fact my compressor. $1800 to repair ...did not want to hear that considering that I am not working due to my position being eliminated back in February. Fun!! Fun!!
I only wished that I had found this forum before I purchased my truck but over all it has been great and it has 83,000 miles. Go figure complaints on the compressor. I wanted a truck and it was a Honda figured it was for me. This is my second Honda...I previously had an Accord EX Coupe put close to 160,000 ...therefore getting another Honda was not even a question.
It would seem that Honda would have a recall to offer some relief to its customers who come back and even those who may say they will never go back. I realize that times are ruff but we ALL are experiencing it therefore Honda should help those who whether covered under warrantee or not when they see that there is an apparent problem with the compressors in the 2001-2005 CR-V's. It is sad when a dealership keep the compressors in stock waiting on that next CR-V to pull in for the repair service.
American Honda you need to do better for your loyal Honda car owners.
Our A/C died while driving across N AZ this afternoon (2003 CR-V, 78,000 mi). We heard some odd sounds we thought were the wind 60 or so miles earlier in NMex, but I suspect now it was the prelude to failure. At failure we heard a sort of hiss then a loud clunk, like a rock hitting the bottom of the car. We pulled over, looked and saw nothing -- so we drove on. Perhaps 5 min later we noticed no cool air.
Plan A was to stop in Flagstaff in the morning and have them diagnose the problem. But given the car is otherwise normal -- and I don't want to do a major repair very far from home (home is Torrance, CA and I do know folks at American Honda Motors) we will likely blow off the Flagstaff stop and trudge our way across the Mojave desert at night (since it is now 100 deg in the afternoon).
But Plan B does include checking to see if a belt has gone south: Seems unlikely, after reading about this problem here.
Phil
No belts missing so far as I can see. But both fans are still (though warmed up temp gauge is at about 40% as always).
Sounds like the compressor has gone.
Phil
My take on this is I do not mind paying for a new compressor, but if the compressor indeed does explode causing more damage, then I do not feel that we should have to pay for the damage done by an exploding compressor.
I checked the "low" side while the compressor was running, and it was at 18 psi. I added some PAG oil and R134 with dye up to 25 psi. The thermocouple now reads 38°F before compressor cycles off. The pressure gauge reads about 45 psi on the "low" side when compressor is off.
It is possible that failures have been caused by the lack of lubrication, either from the owners not "excercising" their systems during winter, or because some of the oil has leaked out. Compressors don't just explode, there has to be an underlying cause. Lack of lubrication is my first suspect.
Even your own data suggests that AC failures are elevated in the '02 to '05 CRV models made in Japan. Would you suggest that Honda managed to attract particularly negligent owners for just those years of just that model? Or was fate unkind to Honda and randomly distributed a greater percentage of bum owners to them right then?
Your continuing effort to blame the owner is not supported by the data.
Tom's Corner Garage: A/C Failure and How to Track Down the Cause (Edmunds Daily)
I've driven nothing but Hondas since 1985 (Accord, CR-X, Civic and CR-V). All but the CR-V have gone at least 125K miles with no A/C issues in any; The CR-V A/C failed at 78K miles.
Now at home, so Monday I'll take it to my local dealer and see what they come up with. Whatever it is, I'll have to get it fixed: In my 70s and can't do desert driving as I need to without A/C with Summer coming. If the repair is too costly, I'll get it done and buy a Toyota or some other non-Honda as my next car.
Phil
If the failures were as wide spread, then all of the compressors from 02-04 model years made in Japan would have failed. But, they have not. The big variable is the operator.
Does a layman feel a difference in temprature between 38.6°F and 44°F. chances are they don't. They keep running their A/C, which never cycle off, because they never reach the 38.6°F threshold. That could be another contributing factor. Continuous compressor use, as opposed to cycling on and off.
Unlike domestics, and other manufacturers, which use variable displacement compressors to moderate the A/C cooling, Honda uses simple On/Off design, which is less expensive and simple.
If anyone with a failure can post whether they felt the compressor cycle on and off prior to failure, then it will blow my theory out of the water. But, chances are, they did not even notice that the compressor was cycling when it WAS fully functional. Let alone them asking "why hasn't the compressor cycled off today?"
We don't have enough information to even conclude that 05-06 redesign is failure proof. I have an 05, and I lost some refrigerant. I have an 88 Prelude that is still on the original factory fill of R-12.
It may also not be a function of miles, but time, and there has not been enough time to see if 05-06 or 07-09 designs are any better.
Good luck.
"If the failures were as wide spread, then all of the compressors from 02-04 model years made in Japan would have failed. But, they have not. The big variable is the operator. "
This is simply faulty reasoning. To expect that only a 100% failure rate would indicate a factory problem is excessive. I expect there is some luck involved here, since road damage seems to play a role. Most people are lucky enough to not incur the damage that leads to the catastrophic failure of the part. That the system is exposed to such damage in the first place is part of the problem.
"Does a layman feel a difference in temprature between 38.6°F and 44°F. chances are they don't. They keep running their A/C, which never cycle off, because they never reach the 38.6°F threshold. That could be another contributing factor. Continuous compressor use, as opposed to cycling on and off. "
Again, this is something that could happen to any make or model, and would lead to a similar failure rate in other cars. Unless you are suggesting that Honda AC compressors are worse at keeping temperature than others? If you are, that's not a user induced factor. Also, I'm pretty sure that after 5 years of service at the dealer, they would have told me if there was oil leaking from the compressor. They've never had a problem in the past pointing out things that I was unaware of.
"If anyone with a failure can post whether they felt the compressor cycle on and off prior to failure, then it will blow my theory out of the water. But, chances are, they did not even notice that the compressor was cycling when it WAS fully functional. Let alone them asking "why hasn't the compressor cycled off today?" "
Yes, with the CR/V, I could always feel the compressor cycle on and off. The engine power was just enough without AC, and took a decent hit with it on. It would struggle up hills with the AC on, so I would frequently turn it off in some places (blame a child of the 80's who grew up with chevettes). I felt mine cycle on and off earlier in the day that it died, and turned it off shortly afterwards. In all honesty, my wife claimed not to notice the difference, but she also thinks SD is just as good as HD.
"It may also not be a function of miles, but time, and there has not been enough time to see if 05-06 or 07-09 designs are any better. "
I agree with this, to some extent. But there IS evidence that both the location and the part have changed for the AC compressor from 05 on- you can't deny that. The evidence that it has helped is right here on this board. There are few to no '06 or greater owners claiming problems, where you can see that with the previous model, there were many examples of compressor failure around 30 to 50k and within the first three years.
I really don't think this is a wear issue- it's a luck issue, quite frankly, in that the engineering is just good enough to keep this from being a more widespread issue, but the tolerances are much smaller than are typical for Honda.
"Whenever I am looking at incidents, my first suspect is the human. In most cases it is the only variable in the equation. "
This is actually the root of your argument, that bad things don't happen to good people. This is possibly the most fundamentally flawed of all of them. It is for this reason that you are unlikely to accept any evidence to the contrary. I'm not claiming that people don't do stupid things to their belongings, and I'm not denying that human error is a major variable. But to say that in many cases it is the ONLY variable? Hondas are very reliable cars, in most cases. This is one (maybe the only) case in which it is not true. But you can't simply use "human error" and "hondas are reliable" as your argument, because it is circular.
I called the dealer to get a second price and he quoted me $4,500 to $5,000 to fix it! He said flushing the system is not recommended because it blows the contaminates throughout the system. He said all hoses need to be replaced and of course new freon. He said if I went with the $,1400 fix that I would have to replace the compressor again.
I will be driving the car without air. I am really dreading the rainy days when I cannot roll the windows down and it is in the 90's.
I will follow this forum to see if anyone posts more info on replacing the compressor. I looked online and the compressor alone can be purchased for $285. I know labor is expensive but I cannot afford to have this fixed.
The system already has circuitry in place to do that for you. Just let the engine rev past 5000 RPM and the A/C will turn off, since the computer "understands" this as need for more power, alternator turns off too.
The car is smarter than you give it credit.
The car is smarter than you give it credit.
I'm quite aware of that- I'd rather run lower RPMs than have to redline it to get the AC to turn off. I think the people posting with problems on this thread are smarter than you give them credit for.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
As far as the person claiming this is "user error," I've been driving for 30 years, multiple cars over the years, never had one single A/C problem until this CR-V.issue.
Regards,
Daniel :sick:
Was yours a late model 2001?
Meanwhile, my dealer called and got them to agree to pay for 75%. Unfortunately, that leaves $750 for me, which is pretty much my life savings at this point. My car does have 73,000 miles on it, so I'm told 75% is a very good deal. The dealer told me it really helped my case that I brought the car in recently for 60,000 mi service (paid $350 for that). Sure wish I could get 100% covered, or pay only $200-250 like some others here have. I'm going to fight for that...
Repair was estimated at $2800 for complete system replacement. I called American Honda and was given a case number. Today I received a call back and was denied any finacial assistance toward the repairs. Honda claims it's my responsiblitiy and does not admit to any prior knowlege of other AC failures. I will be driving without AC from now on. I am in the market for a new car and it will NOT be a Honda. The CRV was my third and my last. It seems from this and other forums, that Honda stepped up to the plate for a while on this issue but now is taking advantage of the "bad economy" as an excuse to turn it's back on it's customers.
Also, the more I read of these reports, the more I think my Dealer was padding my bill by wanting to charge $3400 + $400 in tax. He was willing to cut it down to 3k as a "favor" to a reliable customer, but that's still above what others are being charged.