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Take known issues like the poorly designed air conditioning vein type compressors in the CRV's or the known faulty engine blocks in the Civics..You go in with a legitimate claim..let's specifically label a claim that I consider quite legitimate and fair, even though technically it might be out of wty. And this very example is known on this forum in at least two different cases I believe..about a year or so ago..one had 40k miles, another had 54k or so but, the owners made their claim about 6 months outside of wty. That's where the technically being out of wty comes in..but wait! We have a KNOWN issue with these claims, and some mileages have been way less than the original warranty period, but only having breached it in terms of time, and sometimes not very much time past wty..This compressor issue is a really good example, because what would cause it to fail is due more to poor design and actual usage...miles. So..so what if the thing has just past the time period of the wty? Don't split hairs and be like that with us, the customer. We purchased our cars from you in good faith. Good faith does play a part in the automotive world where often...no..make that the normal practice is to release a new product into the hands of the consumer while still testing that product for function and longevity. We are the guinea pigs and this testing is done on our dime! Why do they do this, you might ask? Well, first..because they can and have gotten away with this for years..but mainly they do this because the longer they keep a newly designed product in in-house testing before recouping R&D dollars by selling it to us, the less profit they stand to gain for the life of that generation car.
So when along comes a design weakness that causes the product to fail prematurely, we have not only been testing it for them..the manufacturer on our dime, they have audacity to attempt to nickel and dime us, saying crap like.."Well since you didn't service your Honda with our Honda Service Centre (read...since we haven't had the opportunity to charge you three times more per service than a local competent indy shop would have) we are going to deny your claim". This hits especially close to home for me because I do all my own service and maintenance and am damn good at it. Furthermore, I am not on a time clock where time is money, so I take my time when I do these jobs on my cars. If I have receipts and well kept documentation of what was done and when, why do they actually try to use the excuse cuz I didn't let them overchg me for these services. It is an insult to my intelligence. And when you have a sealed system like your A/C system, that doesn't require any service during the wty period (and if you are lucky often for up to 10+ years) it is especially reprehensible for Honda to use this same excuse. Which brings me to another chapter of this strategy they use..the so-called good will part..
The fact is, they overcharge for this A/C repair in the first place. Because of the particular design failure in the compressor, it starts to contaminate the rest of the entire system long before an actual failure takes place, which is your first telltale that you have a problem. Reports of slightly reduced cooling at...say...11am in the morning, usually end in a total failure by 4pm! And in order to have a somewhat successful repair and expect any longevity whatsoever out of a new compressor, is why the advice is usually to replace the entire system, because if you don't, the debris in the system takes out the new compressor..and so it goes all over again. And it is a fairlybig job, so takes quite a few hours to do. And there are a lot of parts involved. But to compound an already unfair situation in which we find ourselves there in the first place they overchg on the parts and labour. We know this FOR A FACT, because the prices across the country have varied just too damn much! All for exactly the same job! There have been dealer quotes from as little as 900 bucks (a bait, cuz not only is that amt too small to repair properly, it represents only a partial part replacement..the compressor only, but with a very high part price also) to the newest high I read recently being 6 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!!!! We know that by comparing the stats on the thread (I have followed it from the VERY beginning) the most common overpriced, but proper repair* (replace entire system) is usually between 3000 to 3500. Ridiculous..And this is where the good-will crap comes in. IF and I do mean IF you have bought numerous Hondas over the years and always had them service at your dealer, they might say to Honda Corporate.."well they have been a good customer, so we should help them, cuz afterall, we KNOW we designed an inferior quality compressor in the first place". So them Honda crunched the numbers and often will say..ok we will pay HALF. But let's remember something. Their idea of half, is still half of a very overpriced parts and labour product in the first place. This is done deliberately, so that they can actually do it FOR THEIR ACTUAL COSTS (and sometimes even still make a little on it) by charging your 1500 to 2000. for the repair. This price range has been the most common throughout the thread. So the customer thinks, well, at least they did try to treat me right...Ya right...they managed to pull the wool over your eyes and charged you THEIR COSTS! So they are actually out NOTHING! And they think (and often do) they have secured you as a Honda faithfully loyal customer for years to come.
But then you have the other side of that...what about these poor customers whose negotiating skills maybe aren't as good, or they have a crappy dealer, or maybe they didn't service their Honda at their dealer..etc, and the quotes come in as a real high, like 4200 to 4500. This range has been the most common for the blatantly high quotes of a full system re and re. Well duh......that is STILL 1200 HUNDRED to FIFTEEN HUNDRED BUCKS MORE than the already ridiculously high priced norm of 3000 to 3500.!!!!! And if they get some of the victims to actually pay this road-robbery price, that just pads their profit margins to cover some of the other pay-half to sometimes pay nothing repair...those ones are rare limme tell ya..And usually in those circumstance when Honda did step up and pay for it ALL, it was because usually those were the customers that had owned Honda for more than two decades and always took their cars to the dealer for all maintenance and service reapirs, so Honda has already made a huge FORTUNE over those years...the least they can do is do a free-bee....and...and this is REAL KICKER #1...on a repair of an ALREADY KNOWN poorly designed (for longevity, at least
Now.....ya wanna know the REAL KICKER #2? It's that when they DO replace the entire system either for their costs, or as much as a few THOUSAND more than their costs....
THEY REPLACE IT WITH THE SAME DAMN TYPE COMPRESSOR THAT WILL BLACK DEATH YOU ALL OVER AGAIN...sooner than it should. :mad:
And so the cycle continues..
Ok, so here are some tips that will help you get the most life out of your compressor.
- do NOT bypass the 2 defrost settings which automatically engage the compressor when you choose defrost in the winter months. This auto engagement of the compressor serves two purposes, first (some would say...the ones who haven't had a failure yet) is to assist in demisting, but really..in my mind the most important reason, is that it keeps the system lubed with the oil that is also in the lines and gets distributed with the freon type gas, or 134A etc. during the off season. This helps keep the system oiled and the seals compliant and able to better resist shrinkage/cracking and leaking. So when you read on the internet the procedure of how to bypass these two defroster settings, either don't bother doing it all, OR, if you choose to do it, then be pro-active in the off season and make sure you cycle the compressor manually by pushing the A/C switch and running it for at least 10 or 15 min twice a week. If the temp is really cold, there is a chance that your compressor will still not turn on because there is a thermal-electric temp relay that does not send power to it in the really cold temps.. It will vary from brand to brand, but usually colder than 15 to 20¼F. So when you have a mild spell in the winter, make sure you try to cycle the compressor for a good long drive during that mild spell.
- the second tip I have is little known, but it serves two purposes, both to your advantage. When I am 2 to 3 min away from my destination, I turn off my A/C and sometimes turn the fan speed up a notch or two. What this does is blow off the cold air from the evaporator. This serves as two really good purposes..first, this habit will result in a lot less mildew growth on the evaporator from constantly getting wet (feeding pollen etc) and then drying into a nice wet hot environment for nasties to grow. Blowing off the cold air, reduces this moisture considerably and you will notice your A/C smelling a lot cleaner, longer. The second perk to this habit, has to do with the inner PSI in the high and low pressure lines of the A/C system...by manually turning off A/C prior to your destination, the blowing off of cold air on the evaporator, let's these high and low pressure lines equalize. This is a good thing. Now...there is a valve in the system that does this automatically, but sometimes they fail, or their working parameters are such that it takes longer to let the lines PSI equalize. By you doing it manually, you not only extend the life of your system, you extend the life of this equalizing and expansion valve.
I am in Memphis, TN. As they explained, changing air compressor +/- condenser alone, a fairly simple job, will not solve the problem for Honda CRV 2002-2006. Dobbs Honda quoted me $3,700 for replacing the whole AC system. It is quite expensive for an air compressor problem. My Honda CRV 2006 was very dependable until the air compresser broke. Thanks to this forum, I learned and understood the air compressor problem. I called Honda America and the case manager Rio started investigation within 24 hrs.
The assistant service manager Mr. Joe Sims at the dealership was also very nice, patient, and professional. After investigation, Honda agreed to charge me only $500 + tax for this repair, which exceeded my expectation. I know changing air-compressor with original Honda parts alone would cause more than that. I picked up my car 5 days ago, so far so good. Joe told me it came with 1 year parts and labor warranty. I am gald I got it repaired in the Honda dealership.
For my case, technically, Honda doesnot have to help me because I am out of warranty. But arguably from my point of view, an air compressor failure should not cost $3,700. I think my service records, mileage, and two good people, Joe and Rio, helped me. In comparison, my previous cars, like Ford Taurus, Toyota Corolla, and Nissan Sentra, all costed me much more than $500 in repair when reaching 88,000 miles. So for my case, my Honda CRV so far is the most dependable. In addition, Honda America and Dobbs Dealership did make my repair experience less painful to handle -- They do not have to help me, that is why I am so grateful.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The reason I bought a Honda was because I thought they made a quality product or at least stood behind their product. They have offered to pay $600 toward the bill, but in my case, the entire system had to be replaced due to their faulty part.
I am thinking either a problem still exists in the cycle of the compressor or it is just under designed.
Is this a common problem ?
Dan
Also, very important to install a NEW dryer canister whenever A/C parts are replaced. This helps keep internal moisture at a minimum. They do not cost a lot considering how important it is.
Next, make sure there is not too much refrigerant being put back in. If the shops A/C tool centre, has extra long hoses, then that extra length might be contributing to over charging. That is a bad as under charging.
I am not an expert, but from what I do understand, it sounds like you have an expansion valve that is freezing, hence the nice cold air at the beginning. Or even the evaporator may be freezing up. Is there an excessive amount of dripping water after the car has been turned off for an hour or so in 80¼ weather? And then if you start car A/C will blow cold again for a bit? An icing evaporator will do this and also if you seem to not have as much air flow coming into the car...because the ice is literally plugging the evaporator veins.
Also make sure the fans that pull air through the condenser are cycling with the compressor. If they are not working then in stop and go trips, when u come to stop, air will not be cold as when you start to drive again getting air through the condenser.
But it could be other reasons too..
edit- also..."5 times" - insist on having a DIFFERENT tech address this issue. The original guy could be doing the same wrong things over and over, or lack knowledge.
Honda ran a test on it last time and went through the report with me. They claim all is with in. Specs. All I could tell the guy is if the car sits in the sun you can drive it for two hours and it will not cool down so either you under designed the system or it is not working properly under demand
Honestly not sure I feel like fighting with Honda any more about it. I am going back to Fords the reliability gap does not favor the Japan made cars any more
http://aircondition.com/tech/questions/15/
As you can see, Ford too have had their issues with what is known as Black Death. This is the same symptom that takes out the CRV A/C systems. It is why the entire system needs to be replaced or the contamination just re-contaminates the new parts that were replaced and the cycle starts all over again.
1st time was 2mo after I bought it new in 2011. It had less than 5#'s in it they claimed it was low from the factor I sad BS it has a leak.
2mo later I take it back in and demand they take the freon back out sure enough down to 5# again. they put die in it and tell me the fill valve is leaking.
2mo later back in 5# again, oh the valve is still leaking.
Now it is winter. next summer take it back in they claim it is full show me a fancy test as tell me it works fine. I say BS to the service manager.
3mo later I get a clutch recall notice, take it in sure enought the clutch is all most completly burned up they agree to replace it.
Still does not get very cold.
I don't hate Honda's they are a low cost low thrill car. But what it does confirm for me is that a Ford truely has caught and passed Honda in over all quality, which is more than a low price. Drive a new Excape, it is just a better vehicle than a Honda for the price. Buy American, the Honda's are nto better any more.
hondatrash, "Honda CR-V Brakes" #22, 7 Jun 2013 11:02 am
Call Honda in Torance, CA they are the ones handling these claims.
Regards:
Oldbearcat
I am a bit tired of going to meetings dripping because my car will not cool down if it sat in the sun.
I hate to say this but I am thinking serously about just dumping it and buying a new Escape and admit I bought it because it was cheap and I got what I paid for.
However, a caveat first. They wanted to charge me $160 to flush AC system and replace freon - which they claimed they "needed" to do to properly test for leaks, and diagnose it was really a fault AC clutch assembly, etc. Luckily my uncle owns a service station and he had already checked this a few months earlier. Freon was not the problem. I returned to Honda with a diagnosis from my uncle's station and then they finally fixed it for free.
Good luck!
Help in Boston!
Let me give you some basics from the letter I received. It specifies Honda Reference Svc Bulletin #12-072 at the bottom of the letter. Also to direct any questions to Honda Customer Service 800.999.1009, and select option 4. I would recommend calling before going to the dealer.
This letter is to notify you of a warranty extension on your CR-V. What is the reason for this notice? The A/C clutch wears out causing one or more of the following symptions:
The A/C performance is poor and it's blowing air that isn't very cold.
- The A/C doesn't work and blows warm air.
The A/C makes noise that seems to come from the compressor area.To increase confidence in your vehicle, American Honda is extending the warranty of the A/C clutch to 7 years from the original date of purchase or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
This warranty extension provides coverage for the original owner and any subsequent owners.
What should you do?
If your vehicle is experiencing any of the listed symptoms, call any authorized Honda dealer and make an appointment to have your vehicle inspected. If the symptom is caused by a worn A/C clutch, the A/C clutch and, if needed, the field coil will be replaced at no cost.
Lastly, it says "we apologize for any inconvenience this warranty extension may cause you"
Hope this helps!
I agree with most folks on this board that Honda is really missing the boat with easy customer service basics. If they would simply fix the problem without trying to bleed their loyal customers, they would have repeat business. I generally love Honda cars, but this CRV AC issue is a serious problem. Although an easy one to correct.
I never thought I would see the day when Honda owners were saying to buy Ford cars!
Any idea how this could be - a compressor needs to be replaced bc a belt snapped ?
Any info is appreciated!
Thanks!
$90 total cost.
That was 9 years ago.
I don't think PepBoys is saying the compressor has to be replaced because of belt failure. It's the other way around.
I'd argue with Honda that they need to fix it under warranty.
I called American Honda about it. Before the case manager actually spoke to me, he called the dealer and, and as he recounts it, the service technician told him that it was not 'black death'. I got the distinct feeling that the tech may have had a few words put in his mouth, but it doesn't matter. American Honda is would rather trash another customer relationship than admit that this is just a bad design that will fail early.
An A/C compressor can easily last the life of a car. The 100k extended warranty that some Honda customers are seeing is, I think, just a calculated bet made on solid real-world failure information. Most of these things after the '04 model will probably survive to 100k miles. That they die shortly afterward, and cost an arm and a leg to repair, is apparently the customer's fault.
I used to buy an occasional American-brand car but always sold them before 100k miles. I've had Hondas for 40 years and never thought I'd see this moment, but apparently Honda has decided to join that club.
Yes, shop around! If you're reading this because your A/C failed, I'd recommend doing what I wish I'd done - made a few calls and found an independent mechanic who handles A/C and is willing to work at the bottom of the engine compartment. If you work with the dealer, as I and others here have, your wallet will almost certainly feel insulted.
I called American Honda recently (the heat made me do it,) and had the service bulletin number ready. I was only hoping for some guidance, maybe a discount. I didn't even get that. They tried to tell me that they know nothing about this or any issues of this sort. They claim to have no record. I tried to give them the service bulletin ID and they said that it was a NITSA number and it wouldn't help them. They said that the only thing they have that is close is a condenser coil on years 2007-11. The only thing I got was a recommendation to take it to a Honda certified dealer to look at.
I have loved my CR-V, but I'm not feeling love for Honda right now.
I normally don’t post or voice my disaffection in public but this is something you all need to know if you own of are think of owning a Honda.
I will try to keep this short being most of you have had the problem with the catastrophic air conditioning compressor failure of have heard of it and are doing research (which until yesterday I had never heard of). We have 2004 CRV with 110000 miles on it and have never had a problem and it’s well maintained per the factory recommended time frames. This past weekend my wife was out and she heard a loud noise and the air started blow warm air. I could see that there was a problem with the compressor cultch and it would need to be fixed. We took the car in to our local dealer and after they looked at it we were advised that we would need to replace the whole air condition system at the tune of $2900+. So I stated my research to discover that this is a common issue with the CRV’s. I place a call to Honda of America to see if there was any help that they could provide and was advised that there is no recalls and this kind of catastrophic failure is rare. I recommend that that they should do some search and would see that is more common and I feel the least they should do was to pick the price of the compressor with no luck.
Honda needs to do the right thing and advise the CRV owners that the air conditioning compressor need to be replaced prior to 100000 miles or risk a catastrophic failure. I would have been happy to pay 700-800 to have this repaired.
In closing my family owns five Honda’s and were in the process of upgrading two of them and adding one more but now after our issues with Honda of America we will be working disinvesting our self’s from Honda.
So Honda of America I just did some quick math and I know it’s no big deal to you but this year you will lose about $90,000 and as two of our Honda’s are owned by younger drivers and the will not be buy Honda you will lose about another $180,000; plus your local dealer will lose the service work on five customers cars so no big deal.
Thank you
Also, when you say condenser fans, should we assume you are referring to the EXTRA fan for A/C use and not the fan for coolant temperature regulation? Why would the condenser fan be more prone to failure than the coolant fan? Is it because of a wiring harness connection that is maybe more prone to corrosion than the coolant fan connections? Or maybe the relay itself is not the same one as the coolant fan, and is of inferior component size given that the A/C relay probably cycles much more often than the coolant fan relay when the vehicle is on the highway and air is being driven through the coolant rad. I suspect that the A/C condenser fan still cycles more often on the highway when the HVAC temp control is in full cold position, and if it is the same size/type relay, then its contact points may wear or become pitted sooner than the coolant fan relay.
If you are a Honda Tech and have this inside info in the details, please share as I would like to do some preventative measures by going to these very wiring connections and confirming the wx seal is keeping them looking electrolysis free, and/or just buying new relays now before they fail so as to instill new life. Much more affordable than the other scenario, which as we know now, by the time you discover you have a problem, it is too late and the entire system has been pouched/contaminated.