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Honda Civic Hybrid Engine Questions
hybrid2003nyc
Member Posts: 2
in Honda
I have been a happy owner of my Honda Civic Hybrid since I first bought the car new in 2003 (that model year). I have had no real problems with the car (other than when an SUV backed into the front of my car while it was parked and did some significant damage – but insurance covered it and I thought it was kind of ironic damage) until just the other day.
On a hot Sunday, I drove my car for about an hour and a half to a father's day lunch. Got to my destination - car was fine. Left my destination and stopped off at a super market to buy a cake - car was fine. Tried to start my car to leave the supermarket - car wouldn't start. Initially, the engine would not even turn. I paused for a minute and tried again. The engine started, and sounded fine. I shifted into drive – the engine died. Tried a few more times, same results. No warning lights were on the dashboard. Engine temperature was fine. Charge level was fine. Still waited for a while. Tried again. Engine started in park. Worked in neutral. But as soon as I shifted to drive, or reverse, the engine died. Tow truck guy was perplexed. The first garage we took it to, which specializes in Hondas, was also perplexed, but thought it might be the hybrid battery. We then brought it to the Honda dealership. They have spent several days on it, and claim that it is not the battery, but they can’t figure out what is wrong. To make matters worse, we JUST past our 3 year, 30,000 mile warranty. We don’t trust the Honda dealer though – since the hybrid batter is still under warranty, we suspect they are desperately looking for something else to blame the problem on. Is anyone familiar with a problem like this? This is definitely changing my attitude towards Honda hybrids, just as we are considering getting a new car in a year or so.
On a hot Sunday, I drove my car for about an hour and a half to a father's day lunch. Got to my destination - car was fine. Left my destination and stopped off at a super market to buy a cake - car was fine. Tried to start my car to leave the supermarket - car wouldn't start. Initially, the engine would not even turn. I paused for a minute and tried again. The engine started, and sounded fine. I shifted into drive – the engine died. Tried a few more times, same results. No warning lights were on the dashboard. Engine temperature was fine. Charge level was fine. Still waited for a while. Tried again. Engine started in park. Worked in neutral. But as soon as I shifted to drive, or reverse, the engine died. Tow truck guy was perplexed. The first garage we took it to, which specializes in Hondas, was also perplexed, but thought it might be the hybrid battery. We then brought it to the Honda dealership. They have spent several days on it, and claim that it is not the battery, but they can’t figure out what is wrong. To make matters worse, we JUST past our 3 year, 30,000 mile warranty. We don’t trust the Honda dealer though – since the hybrid batter is still under warranty, we suspect they are desperately looking for something else to blame the problem on. Is anyone familiar with a problem like this? This is definitely changing my attitude towards Honda hybrids, just as we are considering getting a new car in a year or so.
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After spending plenty of time with each of these cars (except the Camry, which I'm told will be arriving in late May, early June), I thought that I'd decided to buy the hybrid Civic. But as the moment of purchase is nigh, I've been feeling really scared. And after reading your post, I feel even more afraid...because I've read other reports of the same problem.
Just recently I read an update of a long-term test of the '06 HCH, and the reviewer reported that "There was a period of about 500 km when it didn't auto-stop at all...Subsequently, the auto-stop feature 'returned' and now the car is stopping and starting as designed."
The reasons I want a hybrid are the decreased petrol use and the decreased emissions, to which the auto-stop feature contribute. Any glitches with that technology just might be a deal-breaker for me--especially when I consider that the transition from auto-stop isn't always seamless anyhow, and that the acceleration of the HCH isn't exactly exemplary.
I've read of no such apparent hiccups with the Toyota Synergy Drive. Gosh though, other than the drivetrain, I really don't like the Prius. But that's really the only other option, unless I wait for the hybrid Camry or hybrid Altima.
I know that the kudos for the HCH are plenty, but I just want to be sure that my money will be well spent on a car that I'll be happy with for the next half-decade. So I don't want to just ignore the criticisms/ reservations that I've been feeling and reading about. Ya know?
:confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
Have you made sure that all the conditions are being met to allow the car to go into auto-stop per the owner's manual?
1. Front window defogger can't be on.
2. Heat can't be on high (Not sure how "high" this is, but it won't kick in under many climate control conditions)
3. Battery pack is charged at least 5 bars - I know mine won't kick in if I have 4 bars of charge and the battery pack goes into a "regen" mode while driving (not the typical regen on coasting or braking).
Make sure you understand all these caveats before you take it in.
Eric
The auto stop is very finicky but if none of the above conditions apply it's time to visit the service dept.
I have a block heater installed on my '06 HCH and it reduces by approx. 50% the time it takes for the auto stop to function after a cold start.
I first read about the Honda odometers in the Wall Street Journal around March of this year, and I thought I would have heard from Honda by now. I'm disappointed that I haven't, so I'm trying to find out what to do about this. The article said that the affected cars would get an extended warranty, or that the owners could choose to get cash back.
Luckily (?) I was only 2 mi. from the dealer by freeway and headed directly there on mostly downhill road. By the time I arrived, battery was back to 5 bars and everything normal. Service adviser had never heard of such a thing (why was I not surprised) and stated maybe the battery had just a surface charge??? He said I should just drive it until it happened again.
I rather doubt the surface charge bullxxxx and wonder if anyone else ever had a similar problem. My suspicion is that my foot maybe caused a double something letting off the brake and the computer misread the signal somehow.
The battery level gauge does not read the battery level directly. It calculates the level by continuously measuring the current flow, voltage, and temperature.
Since the level is not read directly, small sensing errors can, over time, cause the gauge to read higher than the actual battery level. The system will then perform a correction, and the battery level gauge reading will drop suddenly. When this happens, IMA assist and Auto Idle Stop are disabled until the IMA battery is sufficiently recharged by normal driving. This should take only a few minutes.
This correction of the battery level gauge is normal and does not indicate a problem. If the IMA battery develops a problem or becomes deteriorated, the IMA system indicator will come on. If this happens, have the vehicle checked by your dealer as soon as possible.
http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=132
Looks good to me
Thanks,
Mark
Anyone know what the deal is and how to fix it?
Thanks,
M.
The first time it happened I took it in to the dealer. I had been unable to get the battery to charge past 7 dots (it should go to 8). They test drove it, said they got it to charge all the way up -- although when I picked it up it was at 7 dots again -- and that the problem was my "driving style." Personally, I think this is a cop-out. I had had no problems with the battery draining completely before.
The second time I got on the phone with the service manager. He had me put it in Park and rev it to 3000 and hold it there. It did eventually get to the 8th dot on the charge indicator, but I notice that whenever I do this it doesn't hold the complete charge, it will almost immediately drop back down to 7. He also wanted to say it was my driving style that was the issue, and maybe I had been driving it differently than before. Absolutely not true.
Now I understand that if you're driving in stop and go traffic the battery is being used and not the gasoline engine, and this could cause the battery to drop its level somewhat -- but the last time I was watching the battery before it drained out and it had 3 or 4 dots on the charge. Then the autostop disengaged, and the battery drained, leaving me with only the gasoline engine, which was not enough to get on the highway with.
Anybody have any idea if I am getting the runaround here? If what he says is true and this is normal for this car, then I wish my had my old car back! :P
Tired of paying for the ridiculous amount that my dealer charges for an oil change, I took the car to the family mechanic. Oil changed, no problem. That was approximately a month and a half ago. I started to notice that the oil meter was hanging out at 80%. Additionally, the mpg indicator was dropping drastically from 45 to 39. However, the odometer was ticking away, and I checked my records at what point was my next oil change, and it was coming up in about 200 miles according to my odometer. So, I decided that maybe the oil meter was screwed up in addition to needing to get my oil changed.
Yesterday I took the car to the dealer to have it looked at and for an oil change and the 35,000 mi. inspection (which is about 2k overdue). They did their thing and changed the oil and filter and transmission fluid and that was it. I drove out of there confident that all was restored. My mileage immediately starting going up on the indicator.... and then started plummeting to 34 mpg. Furious, I called the dealer today asking for an appointment and described my problem.
The woman in the service department gave me the run-around saying that all they would be able to do is a fuel efficiency test that would cost $100 plus gas. I told her that that was ridiculous, that the gas isn't being eaten up any faster, but the indicators seem to be screwed up. She was going to have the service manager call me back (which never happened). She also began telling me that maybe I purchased gas with ethanol in it. I have never driven my car out of the area. I buy gasoline from the same gas station that I have for the past couple of years as it's across the street from my house. I have never had a problem with the car ever. What is going on?!
:sick:
My 2005 Civic Hybrid has been having the same issue you describe. Once in the parking lot: I was waiting in line to exit, shut off the engine and was listening to the radio when it started to sputter on and off, and the engine wouldn't turn on afterwards, dash lights would just blink. I didn't try to start it again until over 30 min. later, and it started with no problem. My car did it again this afternoon, except this time the radio and AC shut off and dash lights started to blink AS I was driving it--seems like an incredibly dangerous prospect if I had been on the freeway!!-also, the steering began to feel stiff. I immediately pulled over, waited and at a mechanic friends' suggestion, opened the gas tank to air it out for a few minutes (he said sometimes when the cars get too hot vapor can build up in the tank? the weather was pretty hot both times this has happened) anyhow it started again as normal about 25 minutes later. I was wondering if you have gained any more insight into the problem since your post. I will likely take it into the dealer to get checked in a day or two, but am not optimistic about them finding the problem.
- The IMA system is calibrated to only 'fully charge' the battery in limited circumstances. This is because NiMH batteries last longest when they're kept in the middle of the spectrum ('7' bars should be considered optimal; on the rare times when you have 8 bars, you'll see the system giving you 'extra' assist to bleed the charge meter back down to 7). At the lower end of the spectrum, 4 bars is the 'minimum' charge, and you'll see the system do 'extra' charging to bring the level back up if it drops to 4 bars. You'll also notice assist is lessened at this level. At 3 bars, assist pretty much stops, and at 2 bars, you'll lose the auto-stop function. Most of the time, my car sits between 5-6 bars of charge, it goes up to 7 bars occasionally, and 8 bars on the very rare occasion. When it's at 8 bars, you'll see it drop down to 7 after a few minutes of driving.
- When you saw the state of charge (SoC) drop down like you did (drained down to 2 bars, then down to 0, then a big recharge), what you were experiencing was a 'recal' (or, recalibration). Your owner's manual will tell you that this meter is an 'approximate' state of charge. What happens is that the system occasionally loses track of how much juice is left in the battery; when it finds out that it's far enough out of sync, it drains the remaining charge out of the battery, and then charges it up again (thus, the recalibration). This will happen occasionally, however, if it occurs regularly (ie; at least once a day), take the car in and have it checked. Generally, if there's a real problem, the IMA light will illuminate in the dash - if this happens, there's a stored trouble code that the technician should be able to find with his / her scan tool.
- Your A/C unit is a bit different than a traditional unit. This car has a 'dual-scroll' compressor. What that means is that the compressor can be driven by the traditional belt / pulley design, or, when the engine is stopped, by a pure electrical signal. Unfortunately, the compressor will tend to drain the life out of the battery at stop lights, etc, especially if you like the A/C cold. Try this - keep the temp dialed in at 80F, and increase the fan speed to your liking manually. You should notice that the battery SoC is better maintained, and at 80, it's still fairly comfortable. 78F or lower will drain the battery, 80F seems to be the best compromise.
Hope this helps. Your car is OK...you just need to get used to the differences between this car and a conventional one, and the compromises made in certain areas (like what I mention above) for usability / user expectations. I'm not thrilled about the A/C issue, but now that I know the 'why' and 'how', I can cope a bit better. Especially when I get 50-52mpg from 9-10 gallons of gas at a fillup.
I have had this problem with both my 04 and now my 06. I took it to the dealer and they didn't have a clue, so I went ahead and changed the conventional battery under the hood. The replacement was about 15% more powerful then the factory one, now waiting to see if I have the whole blinking light situation again, no problems though for the last month.
1. I doubt that a Honda dealer's service department would install oil of an improper weight in one of their products. My non-hybrid 06 Civic uses 5W-20 (I believe) and unless the hybrid version uses some exotic blend or weight then it probably uses the same or similar weight oil.
2. a simple oil change (whether or not the exact same weight oil was replaced at change) will not make any appreciable difference on acceleration or measurable change in fuel economy. I know people will dispute that but no change of oil type (from natural to synthetic) or brand (from Quaker State to Valvoline) or even weight makes any major (or minor) difference. I changed to Mobil 1 on our Civic at the 1st oil change and aside from (maybe) quicker cold weather cranking/starting I can't see a whit of difference and ended up continuing to use the more expensive Mobil 1 on the off chance that it will provide superior engine wear protection in the long run. Even that is suspect with regular changes using "dino" oil.
3. NO replacement oil used at a change will do any damage what so ever to ANY car.....unless it the used oil from the previous customer..
They probably used proper oil, but the cost was alot less than usual and my milage does seem to be down. More than likely they just over charged my at the earlier changes.
They probably used proper oil, 0 - 20 wt. But the cost was alot less than usual and my milage does seem to be down. More than likely they just over charged my at the earlier changes.
Any members auto start fail? The car never restarted after a stop. Happened once, so far. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
I've got HCH 2003. While changing oil in the engine I noticed that IMA electric motor drain cover was oily. Also there was a little oil on the ground that came from this cover. Is it OK?
There is a picture of drain cover-part №2(OEM: 1A226-PHM-300) on the link - http://s59.radikal.ru/i166/0812/7e/7a7123ab6280.jpg or http://ifolder.ru/9378066. It was oily. Drops of oil was on groove of drain cover. If these is surplus which lubricates of IMA electric motor?
I tried a can of techron into the fuel tank to see if that would help, thinking maybe the fuel system is impaired delaying the burning of the fuel and hence preventing auto-stop. The RPM's of the car now slow to almost zero, a vague hesitation is noted, then the RPM's go back to the 750 range.
I really don't want to go to the dealer and run up a large bill for a car that otherwise runs perfectly. Any other suggestions?
Tom
I think that they want to return the part for another one. Personally, I do do think it is, or was the switch that was the problem. I had an extended warranty so I did not have to pay for this, but my warranty ended a couple of weeks after I had the work done.
I've looked at a shop manual for the 2004 Civic hybrid, and found that there is an "idle stop switch" that is attached to the top of the brake pedal. The manual gave instructions for adjustment, but mine seemed to be set properly. Also, there needs to be adequate "vacuum reserve for the power brakes"-I have no idea how to check this.
Do let me know what the new part is called. I'll update you about my car sometime in the next few weeks when I may bring it to my local (non Honda) mechanic.
Tom
Mine started working again the day before I was going to take it back in, so I canceled. I'm sure you know this, but make sure the "ECON" button next to the AC button in turned on. I do not think auto-stop will work if it is not on.
Funny you mention the brakes factor. I've noticed that if I am auto-stopped and I put more pressure on the brake pedal, it comes out of auto-stop. So I knew there was a connection with the brakes, but did not know what it was.
perry
I own a 2006. Now that the weather is warming up, my stalling has returned. Car engine stops and is not reactivted by taking your foot off the pedal nor pushing on the accelerator. Honda can't duplicate the problem so I am stuck with this intermittent problem. I have to shift in S or L to start the engine up again. It is worse in stop and go traffic. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Recently, the engine stalled when it tried to shift beyond 25 mph. I had to step on the pedal harder to get the car shifted from 25 mph to 35 mph. The car run all right after it reached 35 mph. I checked the transmission fluid and it is low. Is this an ignition or transmission problem?
I recall that I had the similar problem a couple years ago. The mechanic told me the # 2 spark plug well was filling with oil causing the ignition wire to short out. They replaced the valve cover gasket, spark plugs and ignition wires.
Why was it filled with oil? Would this be the same issue again? Is it something else?
Thank you for your advice.
As you know the engine typically starts with very little sound however when this issue occurs the engine sounds like a regular car starting.
I recently had to take it in to have a recall issue fixed...it was something to do with the IMA. could this be the reason it does this now...it does coincide with the recall fix.
I appreciate anything you can do to assist!
I could be wrong on this...I am no expert, but did give it a lot of thought when my hybrid first started like a non-hybrid. It alarmed me at first, but then I noticed that every time this happened the hybrid battery gauge showed it was not charged. It does not happen very often with mine.