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Comments
I'm not that familiar with pricing on used Land Rovers, so I'm afraid I cant answer the question on the price.
I'm certainly not bothered that one magazine had a comparison that we didn't win. Most of these involve subjective opinions that involve personal biases. I find a comparison like this an "apples to oranges" comparison. If I needed a pickup truck, I'm sure the Tacoma would be one of the top vehicles on my list.
By the way... I'd like to see a Tacoma vs. a Disco in the Moab Desert.
THANKS,
Could you advise on pricing for the DII SE7 - it has rear a.c. and the moab kit which i could not find on the landrover website. And should we consider the ACE package if you want you can email my work akoloskov@whrarchitects.com
Thanks,
at1963
at1963
today we were looking at a disco 2se7 that the dealer is calling a representatives car. we seemed to be getting it for a good price with some miles on it 2464. The question is that the key has cad(assume Canada) on it but I don't know if it is referring to the vehicle or just where the key was made. If a Canadian car any problems warranty wise? I noticed that is said it needed to be serviced soon and sounds as if it could use an oil change. Could you please check the IN number - SALTW12481A703674 We had fun driving it home and I feel like a kid with a new toy. Haven't signed anything yet except for credit check. Also not clear whether they are truly allying the -plan or not a bit of runaround. though the dealer did show me what the invoice price would be but did not get to keep it. Also he mentioned that we would be charged for the document fee, unless fomoco wanted to pay them directly, which my understanding is no doc. dealer,etc fees. how do we prove this, still have not y
As far as X-plan, the retailer does not have to honor the plan. But if they do it will be 4% over the A-plan price (not invoice price) listed on the invoice. They cannot charge doc fees if they are selling this on the X-plan. Taxes and tags are your responsibility, but internal doc fees are not allowed. It is clearly stated on any X-plan literature. If he does not believe it, tell him to contact his marketing rep at LRNA (not me).
I understand you're in the employ of RNA, which is why I'm directing this query directly at you. I hope you can help. Of course, anyone with relevant input is more than welcome to respond.
I was provided with a weekend demo car by a local dealer - a 2001 series II Discovery SE7 ACE with about 23 miles on it. It was a joy to drive for about the first 30-40 minutes or so. Then as we (my fiancŽe and I) were coming off a feeder at around 25-30mph and 2000rpms, the car continued to accelerate despite my foot being off the accelerator. I tried braking (v. hard - pressed into the back of my seat), but only had limited success. I put the car in neutral - while it was still accelerating - and it continued to rev up to the reline (quickly) where it bounced back and forth for a couple of seconds before coming down the idle rev range. I was able to replicate the problem 6-7 times after this incident. It seems to start when the car hits a combination of 25-30mph and 2000rpm - it then starts to accelerate briskly.
This all happened on Saturday evening. I got in the car on Sunday morning to see if things had somehow miraculously changed. They hadn't. This time I decided to try something else. When the car hit the 25-30mph/2000rpm range and started accelerating, I gently tapped the accelerator to see what would happen (when my car idles at accessive revs, this tends to reduce the revs). It immediately jumped to the reline, but this time didn't subside. I turned off the engine, and re started, whereupon it immediately jumped to the reline again. I tried this a couple more times, with the same results, and eventually called Land Rover for a tow truck which arrived within 40mins. The car's on the way back to dealer for a further diagnostic.
Note: neither the throttle cables nor the accelerator pedals seem to be stuck - I opened the hood, and tried revving the car a couple of times in 'P', and they seem to work perfectly. It's as if the car's set on cruise control and trying to reach a ceratin speed. Cruise control was actually disengaged throughout the experience, except when I started playing with it to get the madness to stop - to no avail of course.
Needless to say, this was a pretty mind-blowing experience. However, I'm still willing to give the car some thought, but I'd like to know the following:
To your knowledge, have similar problems been reported in NA or elsewhere in the past? If so, what was the cause and the fix?
I've asked the dealer to look into this on my behalf (as a potential customer and to address three specific requests:
1. Correctly diagnose the cause (seems like its engine management related, but what do I know)
2. Fix the problem, explaining how
3. Explain why the 2001 series II I may be purchasing from the dealer won't have the same problem - i.e. list preventative measures.
The dealer, who's been v. supportive throughout this entire experience, is obliging on all 3 counts.
On an an interesting sidenote, my brother's about to embark on a 15000 mile trek in a old converted military Land rover from London to Chine (www.le2001.org). While is car dates back to the 1970s (I believe), it has experienced similar problems in first gear and reverse. The car revs to the redline for no apparentl reason. And this is a car with a minimum of electronics & with a manual transmission. Land Rover UK has very kindly sponsored his trek, though, and will undoubtedly be able to rectify the problem when the car is inspected/serviced free of charge as part of the sponsorship package. This is great, but it still begs the question of: "is this a common problem"?
I do have one question for you: there's a pronounced "purr" when creeping in High range lower gears(1-2) around 1000 rpms. Feels like it's under my butt moreso than in the engine. Doesn't bother me, just wondering if it was part of the LR experience or break-in, whatever. TIA
You can call Steve Muffley at 281.249.2000. Tell him Paul Garcia told you about him. He'll treat you right. The service is 100 times better than the Centre on Katy Road. I think they might still have two or three SE7s with PPK and RAC. (White Gold, Epsom Green, Oslo Blue).
I didn't actually see the sticker price on the Disco because they had to bring it in from Dallas, but I believe it should be somewhere around $42,800.00. The X-Plan is for Ford family and friends and I qualified for the purchasing plan through my employer since they have a partnership with Ford. If you ever go into the Centre, you'll notice they have Compaq computers. Land Rover is currently offering 4.9% financing with 5% down. Hope this helps.
Odiopus
Odiopus
Again thanks to both of you for the advice and help!
Yeah i am going to contact Scott tomorrow and thank him for his wonderful explaination of the x-plan on paper.
Additional Questions....
1. Do I have Land Rover dealership check it out or have independent LR check it. $120 difference between the two.
2. What will I expect from this vehicle. This board is really making me feel queasy about getting this vehicle.
3. My wife likes it very much. Is it true that if I just take this LR to its scheduled maintenance, NO PROBLEMO till at least 250,000 miles.
4. What's the pros and cons between buying a RX300 or MDX versus the 99 DiscoII SE-7.
Any vehicle can have problems regardless of maintenance performed. There are no guarantees that any vehicle will last 250,000 miles with no problems.
As to pro's and con's, that is something that is so different for every individual it is hard to say. For someone considering off-road use, there is no question, the Discovery is going to out perform the RX300 or MDX. They will be better on road, if carlike ride and handling are more important. All SUV's have to make compromises between on-road and off-road prowess, it is almost impossible to build a vehicle that excels at both. Ultimately, you need to drive them all and decide what is most important to you, no one else can make that determination.
A quick check of www.lrx.com shows that the DII that you're looking at seems to be consistent with other vehicles in that price range. Also, a scan of http://carpoint.msn.com/kbb/ seems to also show that the price is right.
Just pass the last 7 #'s of the VIN # on to Tincup and he can do a quick check of the vehicle's service history to see if anything is out of the ordinary. Tincup - thanks again for providing us with this valuable service!
Also, as a person who recently purchased a Land Rover inspection (on my OWN vehicle), I would highly recommend going the Rover dealer route. They have great insight into the little things and really pointed out a few things I could do to avoid problems moving forward. The one I had done on my '96 SE7 was a 50 point inspection.
Also, on RX or MDX - those vehicles are worlds apart from a Rover. Rovers are more truck-like while the other two you mentioned are much more car-like in response and feel. In fact, I think they're both based on a car chasis. It really boils down to a few things - namely - will you ever use it offroad, and which feel/experience do you prefer?
I for one prefer the feel of the Rover and found the others to be a bit too car-like. I've test driven the Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, Toyota LandCruiser, and Chevy Trailblazer (in addition to the DII).
The only other vehicle that I've test-driven that made me do a double-take was the BMW X5. And it was for an entirely different set of reasons. In addition to my '96 Disco, I've also got a '97 Defender 90. I've been taking the D90 offroad and into the mountains and it has been doing an awesome job at satisfying my 'truck' urges. But I've also yearned for a car since I gave them up in 1994 with my Jeep Cherokee purchase (the start of my SUV career).
The X5's sporty BMW handling, thoughtful german engineering, and more fuel efficient 6 cyl engine that does 15-20mpg (with many people getting 23+ highway) are extremely appealing to me. It also satisfies my desire for a car and an SUV - in one purchase.
Those are the 2 vehicles I'm currently contemplating, but the DII has an inherent advantage (IMHO) in price (lower), financing (4.9% APR), X-plan (gotta love it), and appeal. So at the end of the day, barring any irrational (I'm already trying to talk myself out of the X5!) decisions, I'll be maintaining two Rovers in the stable over the next 30-45 days. In addition, my wife is seriously eyeing the Freelander, so we're a bit odd in our Rover tastes Keep that in mind when evaluating my post!
Best of luck and let us know what you chose, either way.
Regards, wasko
Just thought I'd share this with you. I've been posting on this forum for a couple of years now and can remember the quality issues with DI's, including mine. For the most part with a few exceptions, these have gone away in the DIIs.
It's easy to not see the forest through the trees and to think that Rovers are the only vehicles plagued with build issues. Some readers have expressed uneasiness in buying DIIs based on the posts here.
As I evaluate the BMW X5, I can't help but notice problems that MANY BMW owners are seeing:
* two major recalls this year alone
* radiator overheating - could lead to fire
* stalling issues at slow speeds
* tailgate button issues
* random Check Engine Light
* Open Tailgate light
* key/seat memory issues
* random locking door problems
* squeaking tailgates
* dashboard indicator lights constantly on
* AC blowing cold in front, hot in back
* heater blowing cold in front, hot in back
* etc.
As I've made mental notes on DII issues over the past year (with rkoesler's difficult DII being the exception), the DII problems seem to be much smaller, like:
* rattling sunroofs
* squeaky back seat
* one transmission issue (warrantied)
* the recent accelerating issue (loaner vehicle)
* radio quiet with rear headphones (design?)
* etc.
So, let's tip our hats and our pints to the quality job that the folks at Solihull are doing. British engineering at it's finest - perhaps BMW's influence on LR was better than it was for BMW themselves
Thanks - wasko
Brakes should religiously be checked every 10-15,000 miles - Rovers are notorious for eating brake pads. Depending on driving factors (stop and go city driving or lots of downhill), some folks will get ~10k off the pads, but most get 20+k off of them.
As for the uneven tire wear, I can't comment on that. Could be something as simple as the tires being improperly balanced. Again, as I culled through 100's of previous posts in my own research recently (as I prepare for the DII purchase), I can't recall seeing uneven tire wear as a general issue.
Also, I think mpg is 13-17 on the DIIs. Tincup or other '99 DII owners could comment for a fact but I think it's the same even for the '00s and '01s.
Thanks - wasko
Samzurc1, The book says to rotate the tires front to back pretty frequently, and when you do... to make sure you have the correct pressures. I believe it's 38psi rear, 28psi front. This seems to delay the inevitable tread block cupping. I can only guess this is due to full-time 4WD, viscous drag in the transfer case and diffs, and the tires all traveling different radii as you take corners.
About the brake pads: this is the simplest and most satisfying job in all of vehicle maintenance... by all means check them regularly but when it comes time to replace them, do it yourself! It's a 10-minute job per side. Really. The big red-flag item is to ensure you don't push dirty brake fluid back upstream into the ABS pump as you depress the pistons back into the calipers... other than that it's doable with a blindfold on.
Regards, -Bob
Odiopus
Thanks,
Kevin
Do you know if Xplan discount covers genuine accessories for the vehicle as well? I'm contemplating getting a few extras -- the load space mat that covers the backs of the rear seats, the trays for the rear seats (for my son on those longer trips), and a Brush bar.
Do these things get discounted along with the price of the vehicle?
Thanks - wasko
The D90 is running like a dream! Wish my Disco ran this smoothly in the early days. Then again, the 90 has 64k and is probably over the hump. Immaculate past service record though - looking forward to many years with it.
We took it to Vancouver a couple weekends ago. The trip was a bit tiring, with the jouncing and less ergo seats but overall it was great (definitely would have been more comfortable in the Disco).
The purpose of the trip was to buy hockey gear for my son and I. Man, if there is one thing I would change about Seattle, it would be to add an NHL team, about 5 pro-shops, and a few more sheets of ice! You can't even buy street hockey stuff here
Thanks - wasko
Hey we've got Scotty back home this summer... doing hockey skills camps and stuff. The guys I work with are in different leagues... a month ago the Big Tournament came up and all the other teams showed up with ringers, 20-YO college players and stuff. Us old guys have a bit of trouble with them ya know? Anyway guess who showed up playing with the hotshot team? You got it... Gomez. He just cruised, looking smooth and slippery. They were down 6-1 with a couple minutes to play when Scotty cut it loose. Dan said all they could do is stand there and watch with their mouths hanging open. He'd skate thru 5 guys without even looking at the puck, and he tied the game in 30 seconds. THIRTY. Unbelievable.
Let's see, to keep this on-topic what does that have to do with Rovers? Ummmmmm, well you can get lots-o-gear in the back.
-Bob
The dealer has since inspected the engine, and found the problem to be a faulty throttle body - a mechanical component linked to the throttle cables that essentially controls the throttle/intake. The aluminium unit had apparently twisted under heat and pressure which is due to two reasons (as far as the mechanic's concerned):
1. The car wasn't professionally broken in (you probably all know that Land Rovers have to go through a fairly strict breaking in routine that's about 30-35 miles long). This, in my humble opinion is not a reasonable excuse/reason in and of itself.
2. The throttle body component was not manufactured to the ususal high quality standards at the Factory, causing the circular device inside to get stuck at full throttle - I was surprised that such a "heavy" piece of aluminium could twist, but there you go. Apparently Solihull has requested that the piece is sent back for further examination. As per the mechanic, no official recall exists on this yet, but reports are starting to trickle in that certain 2001 DII's, within a specified VIN range, may be impacted. I suppose an official recall is dependent on the number of complaints.
The good news is that I've since driven a second loaner car that drove perfectly. I'm picking up the original loaner can (fixed and properly broken-in) for a final test drive before I make a final purchasing decision. The repair itself is fairly minor, only taking an hour or so. I still like the car.
Moral of the story: make sure your car's properly borken in when you pick it up, and also get the dealer to thoroughly inspect the throttle body for an abnormal contortions/uneveness prior to pick-up.
Tincup, if you listening, I'd advise LRNA to work with Solihull to fix this problem quickly (should be cheap to do so), before someone has a serious accident. Perhaps a recall is warranted.
A thought: if that was a new-ish truck and it experienced several trips to redline, to the point of the rev limiter kicking in, that cannot be a good thing. If I was you, I'd have a long long talk with the service manager about possible outcomes before I wrote any checks.
Yes, these are durable trucks but... they are also not magic. Very likely there will be no problem at all, but you'll feel better having some sort of limited coverage statement in writing... along the lines of "damage or premature wear to internally oiled components due to over-rev condition when new".
Regards, -Bob
Truth be told, I'm a little hesitant about driving the vehicle even after it's been repaired, but it's the only demo car the dealer's got with ACE. Having driven both a car with and without ACE (OK, so I only drove the ACE car briefly), I think I prefer the sturdiness of the ACE, even if it is noisy.
Do you, or anyone else on this board, know if ACE is generally speaking reliable? I've seen recall or service bulletins on ACE before, so I'm just wondering if I'm setting myself up for a lot of repair time with an ACE car?
Personal opinion: I avoid as many complex vehicle systems as I can, thinking it will prevent having to deal with those complex systems somewhere down the road. Just my $.02
Odiopus