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Pontiac GTO Strut Problems
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Comments
I would say,if you are running Oe coils, your rears are most likely .75 inch collapsed. this is typicial. Front coils ususally do not sag much, but both front and rear OE coils have pretty low spring rates
Potentially, setting up a GTO front alignment to GM specs may not be good enough
mike
So it is useless to take it to GM because the suspension parts that GM uses to solve the problem are exactly what causes the problem??
I am still confused on this because MONROE makes the strut and shock so aren't the bushings and bearings MONROE'S? Shouldn't Monroe be replacing these defective parts? I saw one of the comments is that MONROE says the GTO suspension is toast by 50k. Is that their admission or does it simply point the finger at GM for selecting the wrong suspension to use for the car, in essence, an engineering flaw?
There are plenty of hi-po shops around here who would love to change out the suspension on this car but it's all about money and I had hped I was buying a car with only normal problems that I could enjoy driving without turning into a bank account. (I coulda had a hemi ha)
So what is the best long term fix? PEDDERS mounting PARTS for the existing
struts and coils (what kind) ? And if I got GM to "fix" this, how long should I expect their stuff to last without a problem, do you think? Becuase if I could get GM to fix it and have that fix last for 50k I would probably be ready to sell the car by then anyway. i don't keep cars for more than 50k.
What do you think?
They said that Monroe currently lists absolutely no replacement strut or shock for the 04-05 GTO for front - only rear BUT in the Sears catelog, they show a replacement strut and shock which she is going to confirm as either active or obsolete bu she believes tat since MONROE has no current listing, it is just old info that Sears never deleted.
SO..what from here? What parts do I get to restablize these struts..or do i totally replace the struts and coils with.....?? what make? Pedders? Only one shop in Houston is an authorized dealer for them and they are 50 miles from here!
Like me, the people at Sears are curious to know is this all really just a huge GM FUBAR engineering and design thing. The Monroe struts that are on the car were designed for the GTO, right? It's just the bushings that are crap that is the whole problem, right? So, if I order the Pedders bushings, I am cool., right? BUT if I want to be rid of the entire issue, PEDDERS GAS STRUTS are the way to go. Any idea how much they get for them?
i understand the the nonoptimal suspension implementation and ancient radius-rod design are factors along with others .
My GTO has almost 80k miles on factory suspension and could use some new parts but is avoiding abnormal tire-wear. already had some tierods swapped.
this winter i'm planning to have nearby shop fully Pedderize the car if i decide keep it for 100k & beyond (seems likely).
The manager at discount tire knew the strut problem right away and told me his best friend took his 04 GTO to a hi-po suspension shop in Dallas and had everything replaced. He couldn’t tell me with what but it was 2 grand!
Before mounting the tires, the mechanic called me out to show me a rubber spacer in the front passenger side coil. This was ironically the side with the only tire that was cupped and down to zero tread almost. Now was the spacer put in the spring because it was weak and it was intended to keep the tire from wearing or did the tire wear because of the spacer?
It would be hard to understand why that tire would have been on the car for 16k miles without being rotated. I had them leave the spacer in the coil. There wasn’t one in the driver side. Neither one of us knew quite what to do or what that meant. Does anyone else??
I’ve been busy today. I contacted the svc dept of the dealership where my GTO was originally bought. I purchased it used from a Chevy dealership up the road. But I presented my case with my story and embedded links to the picture sites of worn parts, testimonials of owners of message boards who had experienced the problem, the wording of the class action suit, the NHSTA report *albeit dead end with no demand to GM), GM’s answer to the problem – an alignment (WHICH THIS DEALERSHIP DID ON MY CAR AT 389 MILES but still denies knowing of the problem)
I won’t bore you with my emails to the dealership but I will give you the svc manager’s replies below.
What he did say on the phone to me, that rings so truthfully in these serious matters (like exploding tires, gas tanks and sticking gas pedals) is that the NHSTA will not require a car maker to do a recall until the complaints equal a substantial ratio of the number of cars produced and on the road. Which always returns to the question in these cases, “HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO BE INJURED OR DIE BEFORE IT’S IMPORTANT ENOUGH?”
HIS EMAIL RESPONSES.
==reply one
Wow that’s impressive, can I get your VIN it will allow me to look into the GM information?
==reply two
Which store did you purchase it from?
==reply three
Our history only goes back 3 years in my system and that VIN does not pull for anything in service history. I pulled a GM inquiry and it does not have any recalls from GM and candidly very few repair made while it was under warranty. I will add that to this for your records. GM does allow me to do some Good Will but I have time and mileage constraints within that criteria, this vehicle is too old for my empowerment. Tires they draw the line at one year and 19,000.
With no recalls and no open campaigns and the age it is outside of anything I can do. I will give you GM customer relations and see if they can help. PONTIAC 1/800/762/3743
== reply four
Man I hear what you’re saying but my front end guy who is good by the way knows nothing about that issue. Let him go on line with GM that will take a day or so and we will get back to you ASAP
**So how about that for a bunch of nothing? and in no email did I ask for TIRES.
I feel like a CSI without a clue. I mean nobody recommends anybody for suspension work in Houston! Ha bizarre. So who do I trust to even look at the car to assess the condition and where to go from there? The dealer doesn’t even offer to take a look. They are brushing up on their history right now but probably to figure out how they are going to give a thoughtful answer that sounds a lot like Schultz on Hogan’s Heroes . I KNOW NUTTTTING.
no amount of info is too much for me. Bring It ! And thanks for including so much detail already.
sounds like the delivery-dealer forgot to remove ONE of the spring-spacers that is installed for the long ocean journey! i have heard of other cases where dealer didn't know to remove them and left all 4 in place - but this is the first time i've heard of only one being left. Wow would that screw up the suspension - and especially one tire - exactly as you described.
I think we have solved some if not all of the mystery here sir! Do you concur?
sincerely,
CSI Grissom
From: Mark Ellison
Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 8:13:42 AM
There is not one PI or TSB in the system on this issue, it does not add up
(SORRY FOLKS BUT WHAT DOESN'T AD UP? That GM won't take any responsbility and can make issues vanish if they want to??
my reply:
This car was brought back into Carter (DEALERSHIP) on a letter from GM/PONTIAC to the ORIGINAL OWNER to correct the negative camber which they believed to be the answer for GTOs being tied down excessively during shipment. The problem turned out to be a much bigger one.
Isn't it tragically evident that a whole internet full of owners with problems, a class action suit, a suspension manufacturers address to the fix to a rampant problem, and a statement of investigative status from the NHSTA, all prove that a critical and rather dangerous issue exists with 04-06 GTOs, yet the manufacturer can make it disappear?
Again, just so you know that no one just made this up: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm
Does anyone wonder why a country that used to be able to boast of being best in the world, is in the toilet? Business and government -- too much greed, not enough quality and no respect - no eye on true technological advances that make real differences - and then when they fail, who bails them out? The same people who still can't get any satisfaction from the blunders they make in the blueprint of the products we purchase.
This isn't the first time I have gone through such an ordeal and for all the GM products I have owned, I should be in some VIP club getting my feet kissed everytime I walk into a dealership.
Of what worth is this GM cerification I have if I can't even get a dealership to honor it by checking out my suspension in the interest of having me alive and back as a customer, if for nothing else? I mean, I think I gave you more than you would take a week to find at the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS on the subject. What does it take? The problem didn't go away because GM reorganized and Pontiac was divested. It didn't go away because NHSTA didn't mandate a recall.
So I think now that I have to notify the consumers affairs people, my Congressmen, every lemon watchdog organization, automotive journalists and anyone who will listen.Since you didn't offer to call the GM rep. for me, I am assuming that you guys want to distance yourselves from this and act like it never existed.
I know that it doesn't matter to you, but I have lost my job and my wife has cancer and I bought this car because it had low miles and had been well taken care of and showed no adverse service history so I considered it a safe bet not to have to spend any serious repair money right out of the gate. I guess the first owner felt relieved that she got 16k miles out of it and could trade it in, not having spent a dime but seeing the beginning of the end coming. I can't get a pencil between my strut and my tire. That is where I am.
Put yourself in my place and take yourself out from behind your desk and job. What if this was the treatment you were being given on the kind of issue that threatened the safety of you and your family, wouldn't you be a little upset?
How about that new GM motto -- GM. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. No more American cars for me.
Feel free to pass this on to Carter corporate, the Manager, GM district...whoever. I will.
+++ Now the good news. I found a Pedders certified shop on the other side of Houston who is going to check my car out FOR FREE tomorrow at 1pm and tell me what I need to fix the problem.
Since the Pontiac Dealership wanted to charge me $100 just to look at it (and probaby not know what they were looking for or at) I am very relieved.
I noted that after I put new tires on, I had not enough room to slip a pencil between by strut and my tire so I guess I am right on time with this..I just hope it doesn't cost me a mortgage payment!
Good that you found a pedders shop nearby. The nearest one for me is 35 miles away, tough to arrange car dropoff, but I will do it!
i never did see any reason for a recall or a lawsuit. but anyone can sue for any reason in this country, of course. I think the TSB-approach taken by GM is adequate for a problem like alignment/strut-rub.
there is no safety issue unless the driver doesn't inspect the cars tires. it's the drivers responsibility to ensure proper equipment and to avoid driving on underinflated or dangerously worn tires. Should GM sue the driver for failing to inspect the tires often enough? !
So, I believe it is unreasonable to expect anyone to have to check their car often for an impending disaster. That would be as stupid as knowingly purchasing a car that had a time bomb in it so every once and awhile the driver has to check it to see if the readout is getting closer to the bomb detonating! What is your only other option, remove the bomb at your own risk. Don't hold the people who put it there accountable.
That is what we do in government and business in America. No accountability.
I think that for a huge company like general Motors to get a 32k premium for a car, they should correct any design flaw problems before they put the car on the market. That bulletin didn't nearly touch the problem. If the parts that hold the strut in, disintegrate somewhere between purchase and 50k (like Monroe said they did) then, no alignment is going to save you from an eventual mishap. Then, will it be YOUR fault?
The class action suit was filed (no dropped after GM bankruptcy) because the NHSTA wouldn't demand a recall of GM. As usual, they needed more injuries, dead bodies, and pissed off owners to justify that.
For as many people who are just finding out about, or now know, that there even IS a suspension problem, there are three times as many who don't know and think everything is fine. GM and their dealers will let these people drive on down the road without saying anything.
Now, even when I present my thorough research on the situation, all that the dealer can tell me is that GM doesn't know anything about anything and no recall .. further (as you saw) NO BULLETIN is a matter of record Funny, the only people NOT talking about this issue is GM
Do I think GM did the best tat they could...especially when I have to go an spend near 2 grand to fix their design blunders on a vehicle their dealers wouldn't give me 13k for? No. I think they border on criminally negligent ... depending on how many more people with GTOs are injured or killed as the result them doing nothing.
I have been watching this board from the begining, and have posted a few comments since purchasing my 06 gto new in march, 06. I live in South Florida, and the car is babied. It has 11,600 miles, on it.
Now I have the dreaded tire wear problem. passenger side, inner tread. We can all complain about this problem, but this is really a low tech problem. A little expensive to repair, but at least it can be repaired. Check other mesasge boards, there are honda transmissions which are being torn apart due to a design problem, toyotas that hesistate (many highlanders) or vibrate (many 4 runners). So, on balance, give me a low tech solveable problem, over the others.
In any event, I will be doing the work myself. So I would really appreciate it if someone has a pdf of the shope procedures for rr of the front struts and radius arm front bushings, with the torque value for the nuts. Even if you don't have the shot manual, any torque values or other tips would be appreciated, and proabaly others would gain from this info.
Any tips to make the rr go better would also be very worthwhile.
I am planning on replacing the upper strut bushings and bearings and the front radius arm bushings, all with pedders parts. I am considering replacing the struts as well, but I would like to hear from someone who did this.
The reason for keeping the original struts, is both cost as well as ability to keep current alignment, at least until i get a new set of tires, which will be after the job is done.
NOTE To mike at dms, you asked that people e mail you, but you didn't provide your e mail address. Also, I called you and left a phone message on your cell.
Thanks to all GTO owners who are putting up with this problem.
RR70
The primary problem is a collapsing and migrating upper strut bushing problem. The upper strut shaft is migrating towards the engine compartment, adding negative camber, but worse of all, allowing the strut shaft to move all over the place, thus increasing camber and toe change, which are both disasters for tire wear.
The front radius rod bushings will allow upward of 2 inches of fore/aft movement, thus again creating excess toe change and increasing tire wear issues as well.
Do not be underestimate the need to get a alignment after the parts are replaced!! Pedders has special alignment numbers are are very specific. Maintaining stock coils and dampers, and good tire wear, changes to the factory specs are required
I still have weak springs on the back and I guess they are next. But the biggest concern is that, after the pedders strut rub bushing install and front struts, my tire is still sitting less than a pencil thickness from the bottom of the strut....so now the strut will not move around but if I bottom out or hit a pot hole, the tire is still going to connect with the strut.
I am on to wheel spacers in front to get the tire out of the way.
To be sure, the problem isn't ever totally fixed unless you have about 3k (installed price) to get at least the Street Kit with new struts, shocks and springs all the way around.
I hope the fat lady starts singing soon. I am running out of fun money.
i too was shocked to have had to discover "tire-shredding" on my new car at 15,000 miles.
somehow my ongoing tire wear is not bad - i am getting 25k per set of tires - yet my strut-towers/bushings must be trashed/squished/failed as bad as anyone's.
STILL..even with the fix, the bottom of the strut (now the selec track Monroe) is less than a pencil space from the top inside of the tire.
I am gathering that the design of the pedders coilover is the ONLY ONE that doesn't have that spring cup at the bottom. The coil is also smaller than the OEM and any replacement. THIS IS THE REALLY UNDERSTATED VITAL PART TO THIS WHOLE FIX. Not only securing the strut and under-suspension parts with the new bushings but trashing those old shocks and getting the PEDDERS.
So here I sit with a poor man's fix. i have the bushings, etc and have thus kept my cheap new Monroes from moving around but I have done nothing to get the strut out of the way of the tire. THAT will cost me about 1600. for the kit and just as much to have installed.
I have abandoned the idea of spacers. I read too much bad stuff. GM just plain stiffed everyone on the engineering (or lack of it) of this car. The LS engines are the only thing they did right.
And- look how many cars make it over from foreign countries that have to be tied down in transport where the suspension doesn't get totally trashed. The fact that GM admitted nothing and never even issued a bulletin to warn people is inexcusable andm in my view, criminally negligent, in the case of those who have been killed and injured as the result.
It is an outrage to see the former GM CEO idiot doing the GTO introduction and talk about how much planning went into this car, earning his millions a year to ruin an auto empire, when this car is only a Commodore with a GTO badge. The decision on the wider wheels (said to be one of American preference) is BS..that decision was made to carry the excessive weight of the car in relation to the power under the hood... but they KNEW the crummy Monroe struts and Opel parts was an obvious dangerous combination before they ever released the car to be sold.
I'd like to locate some of the newer versions of the Pedders coilovers (extreme), rear springs and shocks that somebody wants to sell at a right price. I am "on hold" doing the best I could have done so far but the PEDDERS struts are the only real fix.
extranaut, how many miles do you have on your gto.
also, yours is the first person to say that there was more noise on the highway with the new strut bushings and the front radius bushings. did you do any other upgrades?
thanks, rr70
If the suspension deal hadn't have happened and need for new tires, I would have liked to have put a blower on it but that is the future.
I bought the car with 16k on it..it has about 18.5k now. Sorry I can not help you with the numbers but it is certainly worth a specific post to solicit them. I am sure there are lots of goat owners who have done self installs on the rub kit who can give you this info.
Good luck and let me know how it turns out for you! X
By 100k miles I do expect a grand or two of suspension work would be required for this sort of car, so pedderization anywhere near 100k seems reasonable to me.
I knew the poly bushings will have some noise/roughness but I'm hoping the overall ride will remain excellent. Highway driving is my top use of the car, so I am thinking twice but still leaning towards full pedderization.
Somehow things are holding together ok at 70k miles on factory parts.
tire wear is OK (i only rotate once every 10k, if that!)
mike
dms
Luckily I noticed it at 15000 miles, just before the front inner edges had worn through to the belts.
And just in time to rotate the tires side-to-side and get 25k out of the factory set.
Also, pontiac insisted on paying for the re-alignment at 15k.
Th obvious design flaws are there. The first GTO should have looked like the 06 from the vented hood to the larger tire and rims as standard equipment. VDO and Oil omission is just idiocy to me in a performance car.
But over-all build (The Commodore) is very good. Paint looks better than average
and the interior is a real selling point (especially for those who expected the new
GTO to look more progressive-retro in it's comeback)
My son came down from Nashville this past week. He is doing a ground up custom on an S-10. I showed him the car (which he had never paid much attention to after seeing it's debut in MT) His first response was, "that's a nice looking car." (as if to attempt a polite compliment to something that didn't really knock his socks off).
I said, "it's time to drive it" and gave him the keys. He opened the door and his eyes got wide. He said nothing, then sat in the drivers seat and turned the key.
He perked up and tuned into the car. From then on, his opinion changed about what this car was.The first impressions were obvious. No Overdrive tranny ! 4 speed automatic? This IS your dad's GTO. Where are the oil and VDO gauges?
Then the conversation moved to the suspension debacle. For him, not a big problem to fix. He is a born mechanic and spontaneous engineer but he couldn't believe that GM could royally screw up the way they did and try to ignore it.
For as much as he liked the car, he said that for someone like me who has to depend on finding the right mechanic to do the work and pay the price, he would almost get rid of the headache and get a Honda or something.
That remark didn't surprise me. It's coming from a mechanic who has seen the reality in the cost of owning hi-po cars...even when you are not modding them and just correcting stupid manufacturer mistakes. He was also being my protective son.
And then...what about a trade for a car in the same price range? How do you know the repairs won't be just as bad? When you at the point where you have put just the necessities in the car and you have another 50% to go, you start to get real cautious about what you spend. Do I trade it now or spend the extra money
that I will never get back...and will that just be the end of that and on to more?
So, my car rides much better and all bt passed the pencil test. The strut is still the OEM design with the cup at the bottom and that is the only remaining problem besides rear coils. But that job for the front will cost me in excess of 2 grand.
Were this not my everyday car, I wouldn't be so stressed about it but you never feel comfortable about knowingly riding in an unsafe car.
i purchased the pedders rub kit, and its first rate. i have the instructions, and unless your going to replace the struts, you don't have to compress the springs. the work will be done this w/e. although the car is almost 4 years old, it only has 11k miles on the odo, and the tires are almost worn, partly due to the rought pavement in south florida and partially due to heavy throttle foot, and yes, i have the dreaded inner tread wear on the passenger side. still, overall, a low tech repair, and one which is do it yourself friendly, not like an electronic, fuel inj etc. problem. i also just orded new tires, bf goodrich g force sport (summer) . they were about the least expensive tires i was willing to pu on the car, and hopefully, once the alignment is done next week, will last. rr70
xtranaut as for your comment about knowingly riding in a car that is unsafe, DON'T DO IT, dude. but you may have a different definiton of unsafe than i do, and I've been a VOLVO owner/driver too. Consider a Volvo if you want to max out on safety, dude. Anyway, seems like you are repairing your car's suspension properly. IMHO there is no evidence of these vehicles being unsafe generally or even specifically in your case. They have suspension quirks and a bunch of other little quirks too. It's low-tech stuff and it is not unsafe. I haven't heard of anyone being hurt even if they didn't realize that inspecting their tires more often than once every 15k is a crucial idea, and ended up driving on a belts-visible/shredding tire like I almost did.
i'm betting the car is remarkably stable even with shredded/popped tires but am careful to check inner edges every 1000 miles. Your drifting pal might know - he may have shredded a few tires along the way!
Just because we never hear of the ones that were killed or injured because they were cruising at 75 when their tire popped, doesn't mean the issue is diminshed or that the manufacturerer has any less responsibility.
I have read where some GTO owners have been met with offers of generosity from dealerships to willingly re-align for free. I have never heard of any offering to replace all the junk OEM parts and struts.
In my experience, after trying two Pontiac dealerships and one being the place where the car was originally purchased, I have only talked to service managers who say they have never heard of such a problem and if no bulletins or recalls were ever issued by GM, they are not obligated to do anything but will charge me $100.00 to check the problem out.
I don't believe the average driver checks much of anything every 1000 miles. Most drivers barely ever remember to change oil and rotate tires. I know hi-po drivers are the exception but if a dealer actually sold you a new car with that caveat, ("by the way, don't forget to check the inner tire wear every 1000 miles because the tires could shred and explode") you might think twice about buying it and move on to the car with no disclaimed suspicion.
Let us not forget the fatalities that had to occur even before the NHSTA
would make any moves in examples like The Audi sticking gas pedals and and Pinto igniting gas tanks..
After five deaths, TOYOTA recalled 3.8 million Prius for a floor mat interference with the gas pedal design that caused the pedal to stick. Now if it were not for that being an admitted design flaw, people could easily dismiss this as :that isn't the automaker's fault..drivers should move their car mats or not use them"
I guess my real sense of alarm comes from so many GTO owners who have driven their cars way past the life expectancy of tires, bushings and struts that do not even know, or have never heard, about the tire-strut issue. I see them everyday on message boards asking, "what's this I hear...?" or "why is my suspension gone and my tires showing steel belts..?"
I will be glad to talk about this with anyone who wants but I think that I probably have P.O.d some folks, for whatever reason. My opinions have been well expressed and are from my personal experiences in attempting to get solid answers and solutions but I will put that to rest now.
Thanks especially to those who helped me. Mike with Pedders and the folks at Fastlane
you need a few special tools. the most important would be the tool to hold the strut when you loosen and tighten the nuts. i used a small pipe wrench. you also need a 24 mm box wrench.
the guys at pedders where great to work with and were very helpful.
rr70
mike
dms
That seems unacceptable to me - so my GTO awaits the logistics of getting to one of the two nearest Pedders shops.
xtranaut, you can probably get a nice price selling/trading your GTO for one of the Priuses you inappropriately mention.
yes it sure is annoying/inappropriate for anyone to compare GTO struts/bushings/alignment with the vast set of issues with Toyotas recently, To compare like that is to imply wrongly that there has been a nonzero number of GTO owner injury due to the suspension weebling/wobbling.
99 44/100% of GTOs are far out of warranty now and obviously it's time for all the owners to swap out the wacky GM suspension parts and swap in aftermarket parts.
Pedders Tire rub pakcage addresses all of these concerns.
Now there are alignments, and then there are the alignments that meet specs, but have the attitiude of "set the toe and let it go!!.
A really great set of specs for front camber is -.3 degrees. This still give you great street handling, but reduces tire wear. Make sure you have at least a pencil width (1/4 inch) clearance between the tire and the strut.
For performance reasons, we like to see the toes at .05 degrees at each wheel
mike
It is easy to paint a typical scenario where these problems in the Pontiac GTO occur when they are "out of warranty" to make it appear that GTO owners should be expecting absurd incidences to occur (like having their tires shred and their strut towers collapse).
I don't know how any consumer could possibly defend the idea that the manufacturer doesn't own substantial liability, or at the very least, acknowledgment of a problem that usually shows itself within the 5 to 10k miles - way before any warranty is out.
I have read where many New GTO owners have had their cars repaired by dealers for the strut-tire rub issue without question although GM never officially acknowledged this as the widespread, inherent problem that it was in all these cars. Clearly, how dealers treated this problem was on a case by case basis.
At best, these repairs were done with the same crappy parts GM chose to put in the car that caused the problem in the first place so it wasn't really a fix at all.
I am as satisfied as I can be with the Pedders strut-rub package and everything was done by a certified Pedders installer. I won't know the actual effectiveness of the fix until I can see how my tires wear over a period of time. I would hope that I can get more than 10k out of a set of Eagle GTs.! (there is another thing I will not accept - getting short life out of a 50k miles tire)
I will tell you that even though this shop was authorized to do the Pedders installation and was advised to go spec by spec, the alignment was not on spec and there is still not a pencil thickness between the strut cup and the tire. Hey but what can I do about that? After it was done, I couldn't even get a call back about that concern.
I enjoy driving the GTO but honestly, my car was physically perfect and had 16k miles on it when I bought it. That is less than 3500 miles a year for a five year old car...and the tires were worn and cupped and the front suspension shot - struts were dry, rubber gone, bushings rotted. YOU tell me if that what you consider acceptable and reasonable when Pontiac dealers look at you like you are from Mars when YOU tell THEM ABOUT THE ISSUE, hoping they will at least be a little sympathetic, if not take some responsibility - but they don't.
So how much money do you put into a loosing proposition when all you bargained for was a great, low miles, performance car to have fun driving while doing regular oil changes?
My 04 is worth about 10k wholesale. My son rides a bike that cost more than that.
I would much rather have had some choice as to how to frivolously burn 2 grand into my car than poly-bushings and new struts ... headers..blower...something.
So i hope you see my point - and if you look at the date on my post you will see
that my reference to Prius problems was prior to this most recent. But it doesn't matter. What "has" caused and is "likely to" cause injury is just a matter of time.
Ride safe. Be happy.
I too am evaluating the same trade-off you evaluated -
whether to sink the /time$ into suspension work and getting to Pedders shop.
It would be easier to trade the vehicle for one that could be fully serviced locally at one of the 900 car dealerships/shops so conveniently close.
And the bargains/customer-cash on new GMs are amazing/tempting - you can't swing a cat without getting $8000 off a new GM vehicle.
The appropriateness of mentioning Toyota's fiasco in context of GTO strut/alignment & shredding tires is a subjective viewpoint over which we agree to differ.
So far nary a hang-nail or stubbed toe has resulted from GTOs having alignment issues after their long boat-ride and oddball front suspension.
Each person can be their own judge and compare nary a stubbed toe for GTO owners to 30+ fatalities for recent Toyotas.
As i said originally, inspecting tires is responsibility of owner, and I was a surprised shocked slacker when my GTO front tires inner edges were gone at 15k! The local ex-Pontiac dealer and the factory peoples treated me fine and fixed the issue, on Pontiac's dime.
I hope you enjoy any future miles with your GTO, xtranaut sir.
Keep the shiny side up!
It will need new rear rotors too - they have excessive runout and under medium-braking the steering wiggles ridiculously via the loose radius/diameter/tangent rods.
I do have a weird occurrence when I back out of the garage...on the first roll back, there is a noise like the car is rolling over hard ribbed rubber..it is definitely something you can feel but I can't tell where it is coming from. ???
If you don't mind, Elias, share a list of the things outside the strut rub kit that you ordered to put your ca in shape with Pedders...and how much extra did that run you?
The steering wiggle is not speed-dependent - it seems dependent entirely on the amount of braking force and/or the relative amount of energy being disappated by the brakes.
Under hard braking, it doesn't happen.
Under light braking, it doesn't happen.
Only under medium-braking it happens. And it's not a small wiggle/shake - it gets progressively worse over time. Machining the brake rotors makes it go away for a while, but not for long.
When the rotors are wet, it's REALLY bad.
re the rollback out of garage thing, hmm... 2 thoughts. could it be the initial ABS-test/diagnostic occurring? Or could it be the typical flatspotting of the tires that you are feeling after car is parked for a long while?
Does it happen if you roll back in neutral as opposed to in-gear, in case you
can arrange that test safely?
Re my pedders order.
I've apparently never had any issues with strut-rub on my car - even when the alignment was wacky with negative-camber - we looked at the struts but no sign of rub. "a miss is as good as a mile". Possibly the absence of strut-rub is because I have the 17" wheels rather than 18" .
Also my goal with Pedders was not merely to stablize the front suspension - the kit for that runs about $428. I went for the "GTO street 2" kit with 20mm drop, listed for $1830.
btw, many GTO rear springs are worn out by now too. check your GTO ride height - it is probably sagging below factory spec - there should be an inch or two between top of tire and fender. (Possibly the rear springs sagged more quickly as another result of the long boat-ride from australia, with suspensions compressed the whole way. )
what is the max number and max weight of the wheel weights the
dealer has on each wheel? if there are lots of big weights on there,
that is a bad sign about the wheel/tire combo - maybe not truly balancable.
a possible thing to try is to rotate the wheels front to back.
also i would bet a dollar that a set of 4 new tires on 4 new wheels will solve the problem. that's an expensive test though!
My last guess is DRIVESHAFT or U-joints, especially given the speed that you report the issue at. The resonant frequency of many cars can be triggered at those highway speeds, due to a driveshaft that is just barely out of balance.
I understand that past Z28s and current camaro SS have some "driveshaft vibe" issues.
However a car's resonant frequency is probably much lower than the frequency of the jitter in your steering wheel but maybe the jitter is a harmonic of the car's resonant frequency.
ps - there's a thing called a vibration analyzer that the dealer can mount
in the car and see full graphs & spectrum analysis of all vibrations in the car - analysis of those graphs may prove helpful.
mike
dms