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Then, I drove an '08 TL-S. Much improved over my old TL.....actually, it was pretty dramatic. I almost pulled the trigger on it....particularly since my dealer was making a heck of a deal on them at the time (could have picked one up for $33K and change).
Then, I drove the Accord. Again, for a front driver, very impressive. I certainly enjoyed it more more than it's more expensive cousin...the TSX. Throw in the price differential (about $4K less for the Accord vs the TSX and $7K less than the TL-S), I decided I would be just as happy with the Accord EX-L w/Navi. Pocketed the money. Bought the Accord.
Been extremely pleased. It's actually exceeded my expectations....especially for the price.
Haven't looked back.
Still, your TL-S is sweet. It was a very close 2nd for me. Two different cars, however.
At the time I was a traveling salesman and put around 100K on my cars each year.
1999 I drove an SVT Contour that was great fun but my 08 Accord would be close if not stronger. In 98 I drove a Cavalier Z24 also a 4 cyl car from Chevrolet no less. That said that Z24 was a great car and provided me with over 80K miles that year.
Each of these 4 cyl cars (except the V6 Contour) gave me over 30mpg, cost less than their performance would lead you to believe. My new Accord reminds me of the good parts of each of those cars. All red by the way. . . just so happened, wasn't planned.
Anyway my 4 cyl Accord reminds me of the Integra I had with it's 7000+ redline and her power band not to mention her road holding manners. . . I'm sure I will love this Honda just as much or more than the others I've owned. . .
Would the 5 speed manual I4 be that much different than the 6 speed V6? I would test drive both and compare but unfortunately, I am only starting to learn stick shift!
Obviously the V6 will require more fuel per 100km but is it excessive?
I expect to get at least 10 years out of this car, and will be commuting to work about 130km each day (about 80 miles). Currently drive an automatic Civic and passing on the highway is brutal!
Thanks!
Don't forget you will also save a fair amount on the purchase price - would you prefer the V-6 or the I4 AND a really nice huge flat screen TV.
This might be more of a choice if you wanted the automatic, but the stick makes the 4 quite quick.
I agree, I most likely won't know the difference between the I4 and V6 coming from an auto Civic. The distance commuting to work will be driven mostly highway as well... but it seems quite reassuring from the posts above that the I4 would be able to handle anything thrown at me.
5 speed transmission versus 6 speed transmission - is there much difference?
The chrome accents/fogs which come with the V6 are quite tempting though. Like I said previously, I wish I was an expert at driving manual as I could test drive both and figure out which one is best but unfortunately I plan to do most of my learning on this vehicle!
It would seem to me that if I was fixing to spend 30 grand on an automobile I'd know how to drive it first. Not trying to be a butt. . . but. . . find a way to learn how then drive them both first.
I bought a red coupe 4 cyl EX-L automatic. On the surface you would think I made a huge mistake as I would have prefered the V6 6MT. I like power, the more the better so why did I buy the 4/AT and why do I like it as much as I do?
The fact is I learned long ago that what I think I want isn't always what I really want. The 4 cyl car with an automatic would appear to be a million miles from what I really wanted or thought I wanted. That said however I know that in the real world and at 80+% of the time I'm in a car I'm on the way to work and bogged down in traffic. The other 20% of the time the cruise is on and I'm sailing down the interstate at 65-70 trying to stay awake. I opted for the leather and a few bells and wistles over the big motor. In my case it was a matter of initial cost plus what did I really need vs what I thought I wanted. Yes it would be great to have the V6. . . wonderful to be exact but don't sell the 4 banger short.
You really need to drive them both before making your decision even if they are automatics. Drive them both first you'll be glad you did.
By the way, the Red, or the Blue in the coupe is truly amazing!
FWIW, I was in your position many years ago (1980 to be exact.) I had minimal experience with a stick but I knew I wanted one in my first brand new car. I test drove an automatic Datsun (now Nissan) 200SX coupe. Due to trade issues, Japanese cars weren't easy to get then so I had to wait a month or two but my 5 spd stick finally arrived in the color I wanted. I've been driving manuals ever since.
Go ahead and drive both the I4 and V6 auto to see which you like. Then know that the manual will be that much more fun when you get it! It won't take you long to get good at driving it either.
For the record, when I tested an I4 automatic in 06, I thought it was pretty sluggish... even when compared to my 95 EX manual. When I drove the I4 manual, it was a world apart.
06 Accord EX-L I4 manual w/Navi
That aside I have had this feeling in my mind that I should purchased the Acura TL instead.I am thinking that I am missing some enjoyment that the I4 does not have The driving force has been the price drop in the 08 TL. I have even gone as far as pricing what my loss would be too exchange cars.
Do I need a TL with my driving habits ? No. Will it cost me more to maintain the 6 cylinder engine (gas,maintenance) ? Yes a lot more, especially with gas prices sure to go back up.. Does the E-XL that I purchased have just about all of the upgrades that I would use everyday ? Yes.
OK , then why do I think I need a TL. It is something that gets in your head too let you think that you are in NEED of that product,when the truth of the matter is that the I4 is 95% of what I need, and will use. I have made up my mind to save the $6000 difference and enjoy a few more trips with my wife in the next couple of years.
To the poster regarding learning how to drive stick; I feel comfortable generally cruising around in a manual transmission vehicle but what I meant to say was that due to my lack of knowledge driving manual, I would not be able to tell much difference between the I4 and V6 while driving. The suggestion to drive both in automatic is a great one and I will request this once the 09 vehicles start appearing in showrooms (in Canada).
Other than that, too bad the I4 does not come with the fogs and/or the dual exhausts. I think the dual exhausts add considerable sportiness to the rear view.
Next I drove the entry level econo boxes and moved up to what I felt I could afford. In both cases I landed on the same red Honda coupe. . .
I almost bought a leather loaded Kia Optima until I slept on it and realized that I could drive the Accord for not much more. I was driving to the Kia place to buy that Kia but turned into the Honda dealership and drove home in the Honda instead. . . Actually I spent several months looking hard. I kinda knew all along what it would be in the end, just wanted to make sure I was right in my thinking processes. . .
No, you probably really don't NEED the 6. Neither did I, but I bought it anyway. Because I wanted the power it provided. I would recommend you take the advice to drive both. You may find you're like me and a few others, in the minority that prefer the most powerful engine available, regardless of whether it is needed or not.
This is especially true if you're planning on keeping it for a long time. You'll want to be certain you buy the car that will make you satisfied= in terms of performance, cost to operate, etc.
Weigh all the angles, then make the decision. If you choose the 4, with the standard tranny, you'll probably never lack for needed power. I you go with the 6, you'll just have more fun when you decide to utilize it's power. You need to figure out which one suits YOU best, not what suits the majority of the posters here. Either way, you'll be in a Honda so you've made a wise purchase no matter what.
Ok, mister "6 of one or a half dozen of the other."
Honda sells more I4s than V6s. Shoppers choose the I4 more than the V6. Its the same thing read both ways! :shades:
The important thing is not what the majority thinks, but what the individual looking for a car thinks and feels. Hence, it's always a good idea to test drive both, then weigh all the angles before deciding.
I could afford a TL, but common sense tells me I probably won't use the performance as I sit in the famous Atlanta traffic parking lot each day . Believe me it was close,but the right side of my brain took over my thinking. In addition the only additional feature that the TL has that i would use is the bluetooth. I can take that $14000 and use it to travel farther in my I4.
No, if possible get a beater to commute in(a Series I Legend will give you about 22-25 MPG on regular, has plenty of go, and it is still possible to find one on auto trader or e-bay for well under $10,000 with plenty of life left in it - do your autofax) and have the TL in the garage for weekend fun. Otherwise - get the EXL with the 190 HP I4. You'll be much happier.
I am enjoying the I4 more and more each time I drive it. It wants to cruise at around 70-75 miles per hour. It can accelerate to the highway speeds that I need to enter the expressway without a problem. It is turning into an excellent choice. I am averaging about 28 mpg, and improving. In addition, the I4's 190 hp is almost equal to the 192 hp of the 98 Camry. Like someone mentioned before. What we considered great hp a few years ago, is now not enough. We WANT more, for what reason ?
I think two factors are at work.
1. As the years go by the technology gets better and better. Today's cars provide far more power than yesterdays cars at about the same gas mpg. So, you get the best of both worlds. Couple that with:
2.. Until recently, gas was considered reasonably priced. So automakers started making them a little bigger & heavier, and in doing so had to utilize the extra power the continually improving technology provided.
Now you'll probably see them move to placing less emphasis on power & more on economy. If the current trends continue.
Something you don't need to forget is that while the new Accord EX I4 makes 60 more horses than my old 1996 Accord (130 vs. 190), the torque difference isn't nearly that big; with my old Accord making 139 lb-ft versus 162 for the new Accord.
Don't get me wrong, I also have a newer 2006 Accord 2.4L that makes 166hp/160lb-ft and it is plenty quick (has been tested to be quicker than the 2008 Accord with the 190hp engine, actually). I love the 4-cyl, but the reasoning behind more power makes sense.
Your I4 Accord is not as powerful as the V6 Camry you had, it lacks a lot of torque relative to your Toyota (almost 50 lb-ft!).
I think they may have found the "sweet spot" with the 2006 (or, more generally, the seventh generation) 4 cyl. I drive one as well, and can't imagine why I would want more power. With the larger and heavier 2008, however, I might be inclined toward the 6 cyl., from what reports I've read.
Anyway, I intend to keep my 2006 for a good long while. All things considered, it is one heck of a fine automobile.
But, wanted to state that it has the paddleshifters on the steering wheel controlling the 5spd transmission. Where in the world is this on the 09 accord? You would think that if they could put this option on an 09 fit, surely they can put this on the 09 Accord!!? Heck even the G6 and the new malibu have this... Kind of a bummer. I know some don't feel its a big deal, but for me, its half the fun! That is why sometimes I take my moms 08 Jetta SE to work.
Then, it hit me. They probably just wanted to hold the cost down.
I've mentioned in other posts that Honda has fallen behind in the area of automatic transmissions compared to it's competitors. These are my sentiments and they have been echoed of late by most automotive journalists. The 09 Acura RL, a car that for some will be leaving the dealers lot at a cost of $50,000 still has a 5 spd auto tranny. While this is barely acceptable at the Accord level, at the $50,000 price range it's just wrong. It's been mentioned on these pages that just adding extra gears doesn't necessarily make it better and I'm sure that there are some 6 spd auto's that probably aren't as good as Honda's 5 spd. But we are talking Honda here. I think they are willing to take the hit in the press and in their luxury sales market while they perfect a more advanced tranny which I'm guessing will show up in their 2010 lineup. A little late by it's competitors standards but late & performing flawlessly is better than early and having another tranny fiasco on their hands.
I've been really impressed by VW/Audi DSG transmission. By most accounts it has gotten better to the point where it will outperform their same cars equipped with manual transmissions. It's been available for about 3 years now and I'm wondering where I can dig up some info regarding reliability of this tranny. If it is a high maintenance & expensive to maintain item, VW/Audi owners are used to this. Honda/Acura owners aren't.
I'm hoping that they have seen what others have done in the area of transmissions and when I purchase the Gen 9 Accord one year after it's initial release it will have a 6 to 8 speed tranny that will do them proud.
http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Acco- rd/Specifications/
Just a heads-up. :shades:
The other is push button start. I know that feature is getting a lot of traction. To me, I don't see the huge benefit. I have to grab my keys to drive my car anyway. A simple insert key and twist maneuver just isn't a hassle to me. Plus, there's always the worry of whether the battery in the fob has enough juice.
Regarding the Acura TL vs the Accord has been an ongoing debate. While I believe a good case can be made with the ('08) standard TL vs the Accord (V6), once you get into the TL-S ('08), the pendulum swings to the TL-S. Honda/Acura is probably the most adept at taming the torque steer/understeer demons in powerful FWD cars.
Given the fact that you can buy an '08 TL-S for roughly $32.5K-$33K right now, that's a tough decision. I almost pulled that trigger.
But, like most of you, I had to keep reminding myself what my automotive goals were. That is good MPG on regular fuel. Comfortable car with plenty of power (190HP I4 in the Accord). But, if I were in the market for a V6 Accord (around $28K after negotiations), I'd opt for the TL-S with the killer stereo, more power, better warranty, better looks?, for roughly $4K-$5K more.
The new '09 TL will hold close to MSRP, at least for awhile. That spread will be more like $10K over a V6 Accord....even more if you opt for the SH-AWD version. And the "Styling Update" is questionable on the new TL.
TSX didn't even enter into it as it costs about $2K more (after negotiations) for a car that doesn't improve appreciably over the I4 Accord. Plus, it too takes premium fuel.
There are so many cars that now have the shiftronic option, and many of are standard even on the base model. Even the 09 G6 4cyl has a 6spd sport option. I love the DSG in the VW, in fact, I would totally drive a VW wolfsburg edition with the 2.0T 6spd DSG, that thing simply rolls! If the Accord does not have the option by next spring, then I will try for the TSX, but I would totally still buy the Accord even without this though, because I love it.
I don't think they are cost cutting, the option has been on the Acura for years now, so it is just a matter of getting it put on the Accord, but shocking to see it on a Fit, the 117hp could possibly need it more than the accord though.
Many new designs take a while to grow on you. My 08 Accord is frowned upon by many previous Accord owners, I think, for mainly 2 reasons. It's gotten to big and the sheet metal styling. I wanted a larger car and the Accord grew into something I would consider and the styling to me showed Honda was finally taking some chances instead of playing it safe. The new Acura's are showing that they are still willing to take a chance but looking at them, maybe they should go back to playing it safe. That's one ugly snout.
There is only one need to have many gears - no torque or a very narrow RPM operating range(like an 18 wheeler). I drove a 1966 427 Corvette - it had so much torque you could start up in 3rd and then go to 4th. You almost had no need for 1st and 2nd, AND I might add that the more gears there are in the transmission, the more complex it becomes and more expensive to repair. With the addition of a torque converter to the AT there REALLY is no need for a lot of gears, despite Lexus ads. Chevy had the two speed Powerglide for years and it was simple and cheap. The Chapparal race car used an adaptation of that transmission successfully for years, even winning Nurburgring with it.
Just one example, I know the GM tried to make the Malibu's interior more stylish. But, touch one of the power window switches, and you can feel rough edges on them. Accord switches are more "finished" and refined. Another example is the steering wheel. Thick and beefy, just the right size in the Accord. Not so with the Malibu.
I don't know about now with GM employee pricing, but the Accord and Malibu were similarly priced. Big difference was the fact that included in the Accord's price was a Nav with bluetooth. In the Malibu, you're stuck with the inane "ON STAR" service. And, at least the one I tried, you had to get a separate phone number from ON STAR at additional cost, to use the Malibu's internal microphone and speakers to do hands free calling.
It's the little detail I notice that truly separates the Accord from its competition.
Yep, it is the details that really set them apart, that being the Accord pays more attention to this. Its not perfect, but its up there for me, compared to the value!
I do agree however that I would love to have a 4th gear in my Accord that I can hold it in. 3rd is fine for passing or in city driving but give me my 4th gear for the 40-60 range and I'm happy.