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I posted this in the Freestyle maintenance section in hopes of snagging an answer from fordwrench or somebody else that understands the internals of this. I communicated this question to the son of the engineer who led the original development for the basic ZF design, and he is asking his dad about this. I'll post his answer later should I get it and compare it with the brainiacs who might answer this here. I'm certainly going to learn something here, and hope you all will too.
From the Mini Cooper CVT transmission article PDF file to download here..., page 21
"Pressure is supplied to the secondary pulley to ensure that there is always adequate clamping force onto the belt for all load conditions. A solenoid valve influences the secondary pressure control valve, optimising the pressure and hence the clamping force.
Optimisation of this pressure improves fuel consumption.
The working valves in this area are the secondary valve, the exhaust secondary valve, and a PWM solenoid secondary valve."
Also see Technical CVT Paperor another Set of CVT Tech Papers. A lot of engineering/tech reading; not easy to understand. Anyway, I'll try to run Okahara's comments past one of the engineers responsible for the ZF CVT in our Freestyles to see if he thinks clamping force variations across many Freestyles could be a problem.
How about we just drop the CVT?
To be clear, Ford used a CVT in the Freestyle from '05-'07, and the TaurusX from '08-on has a new engine, tranny, and front suspension, and otherwise the vehicles are almost identical (only front end cosmetic changes).
You both might be having the same problem the forum poster named jrmust has. See his post at Freestyle lurching issues post by jrmust
I think what jrmust was experiencing, and the dealer finally resolved, was a loose electrical connection in the accelerator pedal or where the electrical signal moves the throttle in the manifold, one or the other; I couldn't tell exactly from jrmust's post. You might be able to email jrmust to get his attention, by clicking on jrmust when you see it green and underlined to the right of the title. That might work.
The forum post jrmust does not have an email address listed, so post on the Ford Freestyle Maintenance and Repair forum by clicking here and jrmust is most likely to hang out there.
PART NUMBER PART NAME
7F9Z-7015-A Input Shaft
5F9Z-7025-A Bearing
5F9Z-7F465-AA Diff Assy AWD
5F9Z-7F465-BA Diff Assy FWD
5F9Z-4222-BA Diff Bearing Race
5F9Z-4222-CA Diff Bearing Race
7F9Z-7H348-A Side Shaft Gear Assy 5.19
7F9Z-7H348-B Side Shaft Gear Assy 5.54
5F9Z-7J309-AA Dust Cap
5F9Z-7L280-CA O-ring
All of my problems were fixed under my extended warranty and I didn’t even have to pay the $100.00 deductible. I have put about 40,000 additional miles on the repairs and haven’t had any issues.
Could you add "500/Montego" to the title? Those had the CVT as well. Sorry I forgot to mention that before.
And we do refer people with a, say, Rodeo question to a Passport one if they don't find answers with the search tools.
We could link this over to Sedans and just call it something like Ford CVT Transmissions.
Meanwhile, if anyone has a question about their CVT, please jump in.
- Chad
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Carsten
Consider that the surging might be due to the accelerator pedual sensor (transducer) sending signals to the engine to "go" when it shouldn't. The Freestyle is a throttle-by-wire type, with no mechanical linkage as in most other cars. See jrmust post with accelerator pedal problem
I just checked the latest surveys from Consumer Reports (April '08 edition at the library) and the Freestyle CVT is above average in reliability. The engine was also above average, the old Duratec 3.0. The Ford 500 sedan, which used the same CVT in about half of them, was also above average.
Also, you asked about fuel economy in the Freestyle vs. TaurusX: Freestyle easily beats it.
Let us know what the diagnosis is. I'm wondering if you all have the accelerator pedal transducer sensor problem like jrmust did. Could be something else. I've had zero problems with my '05 Freestyle at 43,000 miles now, but am looking for weak design features to watch for in the future.
Could you write back with what they found failed in the transmission? Sounds like the inner cones cracked or the steel belt broke (guessing).
I don't know if I would single out the Freestyle for reliability problems. A friend of mine bought a Honda Pilot a couple of years ago and he was saying he bought it because it was predicted to be reliable. Then he had a cylinder bank head crack (serious stuff), and 3 months later his transmission failed. Still, like the Freestyle, you can look at the total population of Freestyles and Pilots out there and see they both do better than average than other models out there. I think we're seeing normal random failures, part of the chance we take when we own vehicles of any kind. I do hear and see in Consumer Reports that Chryslers fail at a higher rate than any other make of vehicle.
Lesson learned. One thing I ALWAYS do when leasing is to ensure that I have a warranty that will last the length of the lease, even if that means buying an extended warranty. With a lease you don't have any choice - you have to fix the car, or they will charge you for the fix when you turn in the lease...
As far as Ford acronyms go I prefer Finest Operating Road Device or First On Race Day. Fortunately your transmission problem is not common and Consumer Reports rates Freestyles as better than average for reliability.
- Chad
As I recall, the FS has a 5 year, 50K warranty on the engine and transmission? This is different from the overall 3 year 36K warranty. You might want to check if the car was actually in warranty. If it was only a little past the warranty, contact the regional or national Ford representative and see if they will offer to cover part or all of the problem. After that, find another dealer, because THEY should have thought of that.
As for cost, the entire reason that Ford went away from the CVT for the Taurus X was the cost of the transmission parts. So I'm not surprised it is expensive.
I am sorry for the cost you have incurred. The question I have is if there is an issue with the CVT as a design or if this is a problem specific to your car. I think yours is one of only 2 or 3 reported as being a problem in the Edmunds forums. There is a fair possibiltiy that it is just a case of mechanical failure.
I was simply making a suggestion for future leases with any car company. When I lease, I'm very careful to accurately estimate the actual miles to be driven, and then get an extended warranty to cover those miles. My last lease was 39 months, and I had a 45K, 42 month extended warranty, so that I would be covered for the duration of the lease.
I went to someone I know that is a mechanic for Ford at a big dealership. I asked him whats the deal with CVT breakdowns and he said up front that they really dont get many problems at all on the CVT in fact he does not re- call any major problems as of yet in his shop. Thats in Northern Jersey. He did say they recommend changing the trans fluid every 30k of two years( Ford every 60k) Runs about 200.. He said the fluid thats changed is dirty black so it makes a difference and Ford is the only place to get the fluid. But he said they seem to be holding up fine as far as he can see.
He said they had break problems that they where changing breaks and rotors and fixing the problem a while back. But Ford was picking up the bill for the work done.
Then I went to a high performance tranny place that is a specialist on high tech trannys, A top rate place that deals with foreign and domestic and race cars.
I talked to the owner about my concerns the CVT. His 1st reaction was that is a great tranny system and said as long as you change the fluid every 2 years you will be fine. He said he loved the entire CVT concept and it makes so much more sense for millage and less MOVABLE parts to breakdown. He went on to say only Ford is where he can get the trans fluid. So thats 2 direct exact answers. Then he went on to say he just got back from Fords unveiling of the 2009 F150s . He said Ford REPS said they will be implementing the CVT in other cars in the near future.
He did say failures can be caused by people not being trained and using other type fluids cause failures. He said some mechanics should not get into areas they have no idea of the tech that makes them work. Anything new will start people talking negative. He said everyone will be going to CVT in the neat future because the great marriage with gas mirage that can't be over looked . Nissan going 100% in all their cars now.
I love the Freestyle and I do get a honest 28 to 29 mpg hwy and 24 on country roads for which I drive on. I will as I do keep up on maintence and run mobile 1 and change the fluid in the CVT with Ford CVT fluid every 2 years.
www.fordparts.com has the CVT going for $5,000 (just the part), retail. Give generous labor and a few other small parts totaling $2,000, and you've got a dealership making more money off car repairs/parts than the profit on selling new vehicles, a scenario typical around the U.S..... It is probably true that the cost is extra high because other tranny repair shops won't go near our CVT, from what I've heard. I'll check Aamco to see if they will repair it.
My 05 SEL FWD has 57,750 miles on it. A week ago I got the wrench light. I pulled over shut down and looked up the meaning of the light in my manual. It says to contact my dealer immediately. I turned the car on and the light was gone I did a system check and got the message that the transmission was OK. Drove it like that for 2 days then the light came on again but the car drove fine - no noticeable problem with power, noise, or vibration. I took it to a buddy with a code reader to diagnose it but we could get any info. I made an appointment with a dealer in the town where I work and before I could get it there the light came on again this time accompanied with high engine revving and a noticeable loss of power. I had it towed to a transmission shop closer to home and they got a reader for a "turbine speed sensor". Apparently the sensor can't be replaced because it comes attached to a valve cover that it can't be separated from. So I need to buy a part and was quoted a price of $1000.00
Anyone out there ever heard of this? Also, if previous posts are true and they're not using this transmission anymore are they going to make the replacement parts when this happens to me/or someone else again?
Thanks