Is the Saturn Vue Green Line a Turning Point for Hybrids?

gagrice · July 2006

Having a real-time MPG meter in ALL cars would potentially save MILLIONS of gallons of gas per year in the USA.

I really don't think it would. Many cars have instant mileage readouts and I doubt the consumption is going down. I put it on the automakers to quit building cars just for performance and make economy a higher priority. As long as people buy for performance all the little gadgets in the world will not save a nickels worth of gas. Take Toyota the big Green automaker. They have built 5 hybrids. 2 for economy 3 for performance. How is that helping any cause except Toyota's bottom line. It makes the fat cats look green. None of the 3 are even PZEV rated.

larsb · July 2006

gary says "Many cars have instant mileage readouts"-end quote

Not enough. Far too few. My point is that ALL HYBRIDS SHOULD and that is not an opinion but an obviously plain observation from an educated hybrid advocate.

And of course it would save gas if people knew. That's how anything is saved...

1. you save electricity in your home because there is a meter.
2. you save water in your home because it is metered and you know how much you are using.

If you have a meter, you will use it when your WALLET is associated with it. That's undeniable.

gagrice · July 2006

1. you save electricity in your home because there is a meter.
2. you save water in your home because it is metered and you know how much you are using.

C'mon how many people check their electric and water meters? That is craziness. I turn off lights and use the AC and heat sparingly. But I don't remember ever checking the meter. I just think it is another crutch that is not needed and adds cost to the car. KISS is a good motto that cars are drifting too far away from. Makes me want to buy older cars and fix them up. I don't like the tinny plastic cars we are being sold today. They get worse every year not better.

PF_Flyer · July 2006

There's apparently enough that's distracting to people behind the wheel as is. I don't think giving them something else that you want them to monitor while they're driving is high on my list of tasks I'd add

PF_Flyer · July 2006

We have an open chat tonight that i'm hosting if you guys want to take this up there!

The Edmunds Member Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

larsb · July 2006

you AS USUAL missed my point Gary........

I meant to imply that people will CARE about improving gas mileage WHEN THEY CAN MEASURE IT THEMSELVES AND CONTROL THEIR CONSUMPTION.

And to do that, a hybrid needs a real-time MPG meter.

It's not deniable. They need it. As a self-educated hybrid expert and hybrid advocate and owner of two hybrids and a Segway, I have credentials in these areas.

Hybrid cars need real-time MPG meters to help the drivers learn how ro reduce fuel usage and improve the economy. All cars need them, but hybrids even MORESO because they have the technology to make the information PAY OFF in the POCKETBOOK of the owner.

If the owners who "don't want another distraction" want to keep their eyes on the road all the time, more power to them. But to those who WANT such a tool, it's inexcusable to leave it off the vehicle.

It's like my old Granpappy used to tell me:

Sonny Boy, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it !!!

gagrice · July 2006

Hybrid cars need real-time MPG meters

Hybrids need to get EPA mileage without all that crappola. I thought I read on the TCH thread that you did not get all the fancy mileage features without the NAV. Didn't you buy the stripped version?

larsb · July 2006

I did buy the base model, and it has a real time MPG meter in the form of a needle gauge. It provides all the info I need to figure out how to drive the car.

I'm at a disadvantage (like I was with my HCH) because my commute is so short (7 miles one way in the summer and about 6 miles one way during the school year) so my car is usually more than halfway finished before the car will go into EV mode.

This short commute is all that kept me from getting 52-53 MPG from my HCH, and it's likely to keep my TCH numbers at 36-37 MPG.

The TCH shines at highway speeds though. I have a little video of the dashboard at 75 MPH and the real-time mileage registering at 45-55 MPG at that speed.

Anyone who drives a solid 15+ mile hwy commute at 50-75 MPH should seriously consider the TCH.

larsb · July 2006

As far as the EPA mileage variance, once the EPA revises their test to meet 2008 reality of the way people drive, the 2008 models will do a much better job of reaching EPA. They say that's the plan - revised test for the 2008 model year cars.

I also think the EPA tested the TCH, because the early reports had the TCH at 43 city/37 hwy and then the EPA ratings came out and it was 40/38. I think Toyota gave the EPA the 43/37 and after the Prius bruhaha, the EPA decided to test the TCH themselves.

gagrice · July 2006

I agree that the EPA ratings for the TCH seem closer to reality. It seems from those posting that you get better highway mileage than city. Not sure how they came up with the higher city rating if the car was actually tested. None of the hybrids have turned in better city mileage than hwy in real life. I think they put too much weight on the auto shutdown. I am planning to make a test after it cools down a bit here in San Diego. I will disable the auto shutdown and see if it drops the mileage. My 2005 GMC hybrid averaged 15.14 MPG for the first year and 3665 miles. The last month has been nearly AZ hot with AC blasting. I noticed the last 400 miles it has dropped to 14.53 MPG. I will test it for several fillups without the auto shutdown and see if it is better or worse. One report said if the stop was less than 2 minutes it takes more gas to start the engine than if it was idling. Of course with your HSD it is entirely different.

PF_Flyer · July 2006

If you want to discuss the mileage you're getting with certain vehicles, please use the Browse By Vehicle search tool in the left sidebar to find the proper discussions.

Let's stick to the Vue debate here. We simply cannot go off into everything in every discussion.

shalwechat · July 2006

"VUE is the least expensive SUV on the market. This is a correct statement. Why would someone even raise prius, which is a compact car to compare with VUE, basically a crossover? Does anybody cross shop these two?

PLUS, Prius is for fat cats and VUE is for joe average, this is true too. Money is not the only factor to separate fat cat and Joe, say 26k vs. 23k. It depends on how he spend it and how much function does he get. People willing to buy a 20k mini is a fat cat, while people buy a 25k impala is still Joe, since he weight function more than the "image". "
the above quote is nonsense:
HMMM....I guess all those people who ride $20,000.00 dollar H-D motorcycles or even a 10,000 H-D's are not joe average. It seem like everyone in my office wants a Harley, but they call a Prius impratical for the needs of my family.

orginal topic comment:
But sinse the VUE is the cheapest SUV hybrid. I believe those who cant not afford the Ford/Mercury & Toyota SUV hybrids can afford the VUE Greenline. It will get more people into hybrids who hate the "look at me,...im green" hybrid.

fshi · July 2006

I did not realize that we have different difinitions of fat cat and joe average. You think people rid 20k HD are joe average? That is their hobby, not basic transportation. Prius has a yapee image, why? do you think yapees are all joe average? Maybe your part of the world.

shalwechat · July 2006

"I did not realize that we have different difinitions of fat cat and joe average."

A fat cat complains when he has to "slum it" by flying 1st class on an airline because his coprate jet is out of order. Now thats a fat cat, not a bling bling wannabe.

"You think people rid 20k HD are joe average?"

No,A H-D is the motorcycle equivelent of a premiun car. Many here consider, H-D's having a yupee image or a Hell's Angels wannabe.(stereotype but if you want to sterotype a Prius owner, im free to stereotype a H-D owner) In a land of winters a bike is impratical, at lest you can drive a Prius during blzzard. I do admit riding in the summer breeze n' sun is fun.

" Prius has a yapee image, why?"..."That is their hobby, not basic transportation."
I believe thats a stereotype that those who prefer to dismiss hybrids like to perpetuate. There is your "why". Most prius owners seem to be willing show & tell you their car. Some use their Prius as basic transpoeration and other seem to make a hobby out of it. Similar enthusisam to a VW tdi

"do you think yapees are all joe average? Maybe your part of the world."

My part of the world represents a broad spectrum of society. Does yours?

saturnguy · August 2006

In the interest of full disclosure, I work on the Vue Green Line for Saturn.

On the new Saturn hybrid, there is a charge/assist gauge that clearly tells the driver when they are charging the battery and when the electric motor is helping to drive the engine/vehicle. In addition, there is an "eco" light that illuminates when the vehicle is meeting or beating the EPA rating...its calibrated to match slow speeds to city MPG, high speed to highway MPG.

True, the info displays are not hight tech like some other vehicles, but the Vue hybrid starts at $22,995 and gets the best highway fuel economy of ANY suv. Its just a different approach to saving fuel -- and one that make hybrids more affordable for more people. Complicated systems are not automatically better. I'm amazed when people seem to get mad at Saturn for offering a vehicle that delivers a 20% fuel economy improvement, 30 more HP and only costs $2k more than a base vehicle.

jonnycat26 · August 2006

In the interest of full disclosure, I work on the Vue Green Line for Saturn.

I don't suppose you could tell us when the GL will go on sale? And which should we expect first, the Aura Green Line or the Malibu Hybrid? Whichever one comes first is going to replace my Prius, hence my curiousity.

cruisenatl · August 2006

Personally, I pre-ordered mine at the end of June, and my Saturn Rep (Saturn of Roswell, GA) called me this past Saturday to let me know that it will be in between Aug 27-30. (They should have an "on-lot" test-drive vehicle sometime around August 15th.) So hopefully they should have one to look at/test drive soon.

I currently have a 2003 V-6 Vue, and just bought my wife a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid (w/ V-6), so I'm wondering how the 2.4L Ecotech I4 will handle. (I test drove the 2003 4cyl and wasn't impressed with it, and ended up buying the V-6 -- I hope the Green Line's 4cyl has enough power/torque to make handling the smooth.)

Cheers!

larsb · August 2006

Those gauges are helpful, and a REALLY SMART person will be able to figure out how to hypermile very well in the Vue Hybrid, based on your description of the gauges.

I'm not mad at all at Saturn for making the SVH available at a good price.

I just think a real-time MPG meter is really the key tool for really taking your vehicle's MPG to the highest level in the easiest-to-learn fashion.

Maybe the next gen will have one....:)

Kirstie_H · August 2006

A national newspaper is looking to interview consumers who are interested in purchasing the Saturn Vue Green Line. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Tuesday, August 15, 2006 by 2:30 PM PT/5:30 PM ET containing your daytime contact information.

nocluonvue · May 2007

Does the hybrid Vue also have flex-fuel? Does anyone couple a flex-fuel engine with a hybrid?

9394 · March 2009

Can someone explain the differences, pros and cons for the 2 different hybrid systems from Toyota and Saturn?

I read on Saturn's website: the gas engine will stop when you brake and start again when you take your foot off the brake pedal, well, on a typical stop and go city driving, is that going to increase the wear and tear on the engine and the starter? I wonder about the long term durability of this hybrid system?

Is the Saturn Vue Green Line a Turning Point for Hybrids?

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