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Toyota Echo Real World MPG

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Comments

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Maybe less alcohol in premium? That is the mpg killer. How much does your MPG vary summer to winter?
  • moparblue2moparblue2 Member Posts: 86
    It is as much as 10 mpg less. Must be alcohol. Summer we use ac that should drop mpg.
  • ctgriffictgriffi Member Posts: 3
    So, I've got a 2003 Echo (4-door, automatic, factory 15" wheels, factory front/rear spoilers) with about 130K. It's been very reliable and repairs have been minimal, except for an AC compressor replacement around 100K, to the tune of $800 (!). BTW, I do have a Rostra cruise control unit that I added a few years ago, which makes the Echo a far better highway cruiser.

    I'm not really thrilled with the car's mileage, but let me explain: I really only check it when my wife and I are on a long road trip—the car loaded with luggage, the AC cranked to full blast, and traveling about 78mph (~3100 RPM). Also, we've only ever put 87 octane gas in this car; I've never heard that Echos benefit from premium fuel.

    Given those factors, the best I've seen is about 33mpg. More recently, we took a long trip to the Gulf Coast, and we had 2 adult bicycles on a trunk-lid rack. With this setup, my average sunk to 29mpg over the 1000 mile trip. :(

    Anyone care to comment on this performance? Are these normal numbers? Is something amiss?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    For an automatic, and averaging 78 mph, your numbers are decent.

    The manual would do several points better, and you could be into the early 40s with that and a 10 mph speed reduction.

    I have averaged 46-49 mpg on trips between SF and San Diego, holding the speed to 65 mph (and mine is the 5-speed) and not varying it too much except to pass.

    Isn't that Rostra a great cruise? Mine still works like the day it was new, at 160K miles. Well worth the money for making highway cruising easier and also improving fuel economy. The Toyota people are idiots for not making cruise a factory option on all the Echos and Yarises.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rj2112rj2112 Member Posts: 8
    Something seems to be amiss, IMHO.

    I'd check the usual suspects.... air pressure in the tires, and the engine air filter. I'm sure the auto tranny costs you a bit of MPG, but it shouldn't be on the order of 7-10 MPG. If you have many hundreds of lbs of stuff in the car, that will also affect the MPG.

    I am consistently getting 40+ MPG with mid grade gasoline, compared to high 30's on lowest grade.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    I've never had a single tank anywhere close to as low as 33mpg (I got 39 once, mostly city driving in cold weather--I think that was the worst). I average 48mpg highway over the life of the car, mostly around 60-65. However, I've had many tanks right at or slightly above 50mpg at @70-75mph in long stretches of MT, WY, CO, and UT.

    But instead of an auto I have a five speed, no air conditioner, otherwise stripped, and I would just guess am a lot more conservative driver than you are. It is possible to significantly exceed estimated mpg if you drive carefully, but 78mph with air conditioner, you should get less. Yours sounds about right to me.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited May 2011
    which I use liberally when the weather is warm is, I think, one of the reasons I can never quite get to dephinusorca's superlative fuel economy numbers.....another is that I never drive below the speed limit, I usually set the cruise to speed limit + 2.

    And I know someone posted that the difference between manual and auto shouldn't be all that much, but in the Echo it is quite extreme. The automatics made much worse real-world fuel economy.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yeah with my ECHO I could be in 5th at 35 mph. With my Yaris with automatic transmission Im getting 35-36 city driving to work in summer. Whereas with the ECHO I got 40-41. In winter its worse. 36-38 with manual in the ECHO and as bad as 28 mpg this winter with the Yaris with auto.
    With my manual ECHO on the highway at a steady 60 mph I got 53 mpg once! One of the few times I drove it on the highway.
  • echothatechothat Member Posts: 8
    You and I have about the same car. 2003 Echo automatic 4-door with 165k miles. My city mileage this week was 44.9. Sorry about your 33. Yikes.

    I keep about 38 pounds in the tires, front and rear. Air filter is clean. Car has nothing in it, but me and a carseat for my kid. I coast aggressively. Turn off the car at traffic lights. 5w30 oil is always full. Coolant looks good. I ride with the windows up, but cracked a little. (It's starting to get too hot to keep doing this, however.)

    Park head out in parking spots to keep down idle time. I coast to the end of the driveway. When you get in, get yourself settled and buckle up before turning on the car. Don't let anyone drive your car for about a week but you. Somebody else's habits will throw off your experiment. Keep your speed to no more than a smidge over 40, which is where you slip into the highest gear.

    Leave earlier and take your time. Slow down when you approach a light to let the other people trip the sensors to get it to change. That way, you can roll up to it and never have to stop. Also, park in the shade.

    Fill your tank no more than half way to keep down your car's weight. When you get low, fill back up to half a tank. The tank has 11.6 gallons. Leaving out half a tank saves you about 46 pounds. Wouldn't you take out 46 pounds of unneeded stuff?

    That's about it.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Leaving your tank half empty will encourage water condensation on the inside of it. As the car ages (and ECHOs are old now) this will affect injectors, the fuel pump etc. 46 pounds isnt by itself going to affact mpg all that much.

    Just FYI. You make the call...
  • echothatechothat Member Posts: 8
    Thanks. I appreciate the info. on the condensation.
  • rj2112rj2112 Member Posts: 8
    As I am running a 5 speed, most basic 2 door model ECHO, I have to wonder if we are comparing apples to apples. The statement about not having 85 octane available makes me wonder if you're in the US or Canada. Canadian Imperial gallons are about 20% larger by volume than a US gallon.... that would explain why you are seeing MPG 20% higher than what I am.......
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    85 octane is used in higher altitudes. It would not be good at sea level..
  • ctgriffictgriffi Member Posts: 3
    Well, thanks for all the ideas, everyone. I do keep a close eye on tire pressure (33psi) and the air filter, rj2112, and I religiously change the 5W-30 oil myself. But, I don't think I'm willing to change all of my driving habits (or give up AC!) to eke out a few more mpg.

    We got this car from Carmax about 5 years ago, and although they reportedly examine everything thoroughly, I can't help but wonder what might have happened to the car before I bought it. (As an aside, within a week after purchasing, we had to bring the car back to Carmax; it was shaking badly because a couple engine mounts had failed—something that Carmax is supposed to check during their inspection process.)
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    I'm in WA State, so no imperial gallons for me. I have a 2000 echo, 2 door 5 speed, totally stripped (it doesnt even have a clock). The only repair in the life of the car (in mid 130k now) aside from belts, fluids, and brakes (routine maintenance) has been a mass airflow sensor. I always use the cheapest gas I can find, which in WA means 87 octane from Safeway or Arco. On summer trips to the Rockies I buy 85, which is available out there. I've calculated the vast majority of tanks over the last 70k miles and average 46mpg total over that time, 48mpg highway (obviously the vast majority of my driving is highway). I drive pretty gently: steady speeds right around speed limit, slow down to time stoplights, avoid using brakes, etc.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Maybe the car was abused before you got it. But I did just notice that the 2003 automatic is only rated for 36mpg highway, according to the new system. At 78mph, with air conditioner, loaded up...33 doesn't sound bad. At 65mpg and no air conditioner I bet you'd exceed govt estimate, though as you say it may not be worth it to you.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I will slow down for better fuel economy, in fact that is the express reason I stick to the speed limit, but I won't limit A/C use for a couple mpg - I use it all the time when the weather is hot. And it's hot a solid 4-5 months a year, I'm in California.

    The worst mileage I ever get is not in the summer with the A/C running constantly, but in the coldest part of winter, because the car takes longer to warm up (and I often idle it for a bit while I wipe the windows so I can see out, and so the defroster will work as soon as I get on the road).

    The per-tank mileage is very consistent for me in this car: 40-41 mpg in summer, 42 in spring and fall (less A/C use, mild nights), 39 in winter. That is for my typical suburban driving, including my commute which only sometimes has traffic. A trip out of town on the highway will net me a 5-7 point gain.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mnmanmnman Member Posts: 36
  • mnmanmnman Member Posts: 36
    Oops, I hit enter.. and the title was posted, but I wanted to say my '01 does about the same for MPG. But every once in awhile I can get a 50 MPG on a 60 mph trip. And I will always use A/C when needed. Just like at home, I have it to use and I will use it when needed . I've had the '01 Echo since 2003 now, it's been technically totaled out two times now, and the last time we were on a Judge Judy show to make a settlement. 150K on her, but the old Toyo just keeps going, but it does feel the pain of the Northern Wisconsin roads up here compared to the Twin Cities where we drove before. It now is shadowed by the big logger rigs and 3/4 ton Ford pickups around the area. Soo... I am learning all about replacing sway grommets, etc. Wisconsin gas is right up there- and still at $4 per gallon close to June. Chow for now, Mark in Winter, Wi.
  • rj2112rj2112 Member Posts: 8
    FWIW I bought my ECHO from Bremerton Toyota, in 2000. Another stripper, 5 sp 2 door, with an AM radio. Manual windows. After 5 years I added a CD player. I've done the brakes, and replaced the struts. 3rd set of tires.

    It spent the first 50K miles driving between Port Orchard, and Redmond, WA. Nasty drive. The next 60K or so saw me going from Pt Orchard to Dupont, WA. Then from Pt Orchard to Hillsboro, OR. 5 years of driving between Hillsboro and Rainier, OR.

    Now I drive 48 miles one way to work in rural VA. The car has about 210K on it and it's needed basic maintenance.

    My GPS tells me that my average speed over the last 3,000 miles is 48 MPH.

    I have observed that if you refill the tank at the half way point, the MPG is considerably lower than if you run the tank all the way down. Lower 30's. If I run to the blinking light and then fill, I get 41-43 MPG running 89 Octane.

    In the same conditions, with 87 Octane, I get 35-38 MPG.
  • echothatechothat Member Posts: 8
    I've noticed this too about the mileage that I get at different re-fill points. If I fill up at 3/4 tank, I get about 44 per gallon. At the half way point, I'm getting about 35. When I go down to fumes, I'm back up to the 44 per gallon range. Nothing changes with my driving habits. Weirdness.

    I have found that if I drive with my windows down consistently that my mileage is about the same as if I ran the AC consistently too. It was 91 today and will be that way for about the next four months. I have to have the AC going, so my stellar 44 mpg is going to be on hiatus for a bit. 95 degrees with the windows down at 60 mph feels like I'm standing behind a bus.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    As far as the AC goes, supposedly with modern cars AC is more efficient than driving with the windows down, which causes incredible drag. That makes a fair amount of sense to me.

    The issue of half filled tanks makes less sense to me (though I'm not disputing what you say). I always go from empty to full, so I have no personal experience on this. But my very best tanks (those of 50mpg or above) have all come on roadtrips when the car was very heavily loaded. And five gallons of gas I would think does not weigh enough to make a big difference.
  • ctgriffictgriffi Member Posts: 3
    Guess it doesn't matter (to me!) anymore...the car was wrecked last week; other driver pulled out from the right—straight into oncoming traffic—and my wife had nowhere to go. Our 03 Echo's been totaled, and we're dealing with the guy's insurance company, Travelers, to get a settlement.

    As an aside, I've given up on trying to find another similar Echo. You just can't find them, and the few that are for sale, are WAY above book value. Basically, it apears the car is way undervalued by KBB, NADA, not to mention the groups that provide valuation data to the insurance adjusters (CCC and ADP, primarily).

    Darn it.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Wow major bummer! The tough little ECHOs were one of the best cars ever built and hearing about one biting the dust is sad.

    We motorcyclists "fly and drive" all over the country to get the bikes we want/can afford. Use Craigslist a lot. I would think in the case of replacing an ECHO that would be justified if you can find one a reasonable distance/good tactical situation ie a relative or friend lives in the city and can check it out for you.

    If there is no ECHO what will you get?
  • mnmanmnman Member Posts: 36
    That's what I would do, do a nation-wide search and buy a one way ticket to get one, especially now since i am not working and am not going to get unemployment due to a power tripping boss I had. 22 years out the window, oh well... My Echo has been technically totalled two times now, but it still drives straight down the long road! It is now a three door as one door is bashed in pretty far!! But I am only half way to the 300k miles I want to get out of it. I will be taking it cross country this winter to escape the winter up here and put some miles on her, later
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Dot let that ECHO die. It might be worth $$$$$ in the years to come with rising gas prices...
  • mnmanmnman Member Posts: 36
    I just had a new donut gasket put in (the pesky one on the ECHO's, new shocks and struts. A new CV boot, to boot! She still runs like when I bought 'er with 25k miles on it. I set the Rostra at 55 today and made the 75 mile round trip to Walmart- 52mpg!! Ya gotta love 'em if not for sex appeal, a fat wallet never hurts hu?
  • marcia46marcia46 Member Posts: 2
    So sorry to hear about your accident. I will be selling my 2000 ECHO, 2dr, manual, am/fm soon (next 1-3 months) to buy a used luxury car as a treat for my 65th bday. I don't drive much, except to and from work, grocery, wine shop(lol). I just turned over the 100k mark. Most likely will buy tires soon. I posted it on Craigslist for $4500 to test the waters, but not a single bite!!!! Let me know if you may be interested.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Wow. ECHOs are getting big bux now that gas is so high. Dont settle for less $$$$. Where do you live that theres no interest? Personally to my way of thinking an ECHO IS a treat to drive better than anything else.

    Just interested. What are you thinking of getting?
  • marcia46marcia46 Member Posts: 2
    I'm in the Orlando, FL area. I'd certainly LOVE to get $4500 but realistically I probably can't get more than $3k, if that! I may put some new tires on it and drive it a couple of months longer and start car-shopping in the fall. You interested?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I will ask friends who might be interested. But for me. no, I have my yaris.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Recently returned from 11000mi roadtrip. I did not calculate every tank as I was often refilling at unusual points and also because I didnt always feel like doing the liters to gallon conversion while in Canada. However, every tank I did measure was between 44 and 46, which is actually a hair below what I used to get highway driving. Still, I couldn't afford to go on this trip in most other cars...
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