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New Toyota Camry Hybrid Owners - Give Us Your Report

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Comments

  • stalnakerstalnaker Member Posts: 72
    I still can't believe that you live in (cold) West Virginia and you get that kind of mileage. I'm from West Virginia, so I'm quite familiar with what the weather is like there! Do you keep your TCH in a heated garage, warm it up before you leave the garage, keep the heater turned off while you're driving, and only take fairly long (10 miles or more) trips on mostly level ground? That's the only way I can see that you could average well over 30 mpg in winter weather. For me, I can't even get to 30 mpg when I'm running the heater most of the time (in ECO mode) and the temperature is around freezing or lower. Just not possible, no matter how I drive, unless I drive around for over 10 miles and the car is running much more efficiently. But for short trips of 4-5 miles in the cold weather, 26-27 mpg is the best I'm going to get. I have a 2007 TCH and my wife has a 2008 model that we just picked up, and she is getting the same mileage as me. We both know all of the tricks as to how to drive the car, so it's not because our cars are defective or we don't know what we're doing. It's just a combination of factors: The weather, the terrain, and how far you drive on an average trip.

    The TCH has a lot of potential, but it's best-realized when the weather is warm. In the spring/summer I'm sure I'll be back up to around 32 mpg on average.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Where in WV do you live? I live in Jane Lew.

    I have several normal trips I take and they are of various lengths. I do garage my car, not heated but probably stays 40F to 50F in the winter depending on how cold it is outside. I don't have to use the car for work.

    From my house into Weston on 2 lane Rt 19 is about 4 miles. I do this one often. It is pretty level and I have no problems getting 40+ with a cold car.

    From my house to my church in Lost Creek is about 13 to 15 miles. If I go up Rt 19 and the back way (2 lane / 45 mph) I can get 47 in summer and 39+ in winter on that trip. If I get on the interstate at Jane Lew and get off at Lost Creek (driving a little under the limit) I get 38 to 40 and it doesn't seem to vary much due to the cold.

    Snow and rain / wind does hurt hard.

    Driving from Weston to Hurricane on I79 (hilly) and I64 (relatively flat) I have gotten as much as 42 and as little as 35. The 35mpg trip was done at about 80 mph with little reguard to economy. The 42 mpg trip was allowing the car to slow on steep grades and on steep downhills I did not brake and exceeded the limit significantly (this thing rolls easy).

    Driving to Buckhannon is an experience. It is 4 lane but there is a steep grade going east. Going to Buckhannon (about 12 - 15 miles) I will get between 36 to 37, but by the time I do my return trip I'm back at 39 overall. You can pretty much coast half the way back to Weston.

    My most frequent trip is to Clarksburg (50 miles round trip). Depending on driving style I get no lower than 35 (fast old style driving), seldom lower than 36 (cold or rain) and 90% of the time better than 37 (with just a little thought about what I'm doing). With a little thought and effort I can always get 38 to 39 round trip.

    I experimented once on the backroads and made a couple of laps around the Weston-jackson Mill_Jane Lew Loop and drove almost 50 miles and had 48mpg. Remember thought that this is a 25 / 35 /45 mph road loop.

    In Nags Head (all flat) I drove 300 miles at 45 mpg in mild to heavy traffic

    However I know that somone new to the hybrid will do differently. My son took the car to Charleston and got 32 mpg. Thought he had done something great and was surprised when I chewed him out ;o)

    One time for an experiment I drove up Rt 19 to jane Lew, took the back road past Davis Station to Lost Creek and went up Mt Clair Road to Clarksburg. With no traffic and doing really stupid slow driving I got 57 mpg. Just had to see what it was capable of.

    I have found that the sweet spot for my car is driving on rolling slopes at about 50 mph. The engine running keeps the battery charged and for every up there is a down. The rolling resistance on this is incredible and it appears if you're going fast enough to use the momentum uphill that the battery boost helps significantly if you don't push it hard, yet going down the small slopes the gage drops to 60 and the overall is excellent.

    I know my driving style and the effort I give is not for everyone. However I enjoy the challenge and find it entertaining to see just how I can do. I don't think I lose much time by driving just under the limit. I find that driving under the limit keeps me from getting packed up with clusters of cars, which is why I normally drove fast. Now instead of catching up with them and slowing down, I simply let them pass. On a trip to Charleston it probably only cost me 10 minutes. I still find myself sitting behind the folks that passed me on the exit ramps.

    DISCLAIMER: My wife averages about 2 mpg lower than me. Overall FE after 39,000 miles is 37.6 and that includes several trips to Charleston and Ohio by her. Even then she would get 36 to 37 mpg. But her long milage trips add a lot of weight to the overall FE numbers. I keep a lot of records to track this including calculating a corrected FE based on odometer error and computer error. My lifetime average based on the computer is about 38.2 My lifetime calculation based on manual calculations (miles and gallons) is just over 37. If you use your computer to track FE you're probably not doing as well as you think and if you crank it out long hand you actually doing better than you think. Spent a lot of time and blogging on GreenHybrid to develop this. Not sure why oter than I wanted to see if I could come close to driving this for free after all the tax credits.

    By the way I hope you took the $3750 WV tax credit last year (it ran out though on June 1, 2006 which is why I insisted my dealer give me the first one). My total tax credit is $6350 and on top of that my dealer gives me free tires ;o)
  • tkozytkozy Member Posts: 3
    I have just brought home my new 2008 Camry Hybrid, love the car so far. It has all the options. My one complaint is that my heated seats are a complete waist of time. I want to hear if its maybe just my car. I have had plenty of cars with heated seats and these get hardly warm, I can't even tell I have them on most of the time. I am taking it in so the dealer can check it out but he said they have had no other complaints.
  • talmy1talmy1 Member Posts: 55
    I've always thought mine got too hot. Maybe there is something wrong with yours.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I have an early model. Mine are not consistent. Sometimes they seem to get too hot and sometimes not very hot at all. I was surprised that they didn't have dual settings as well.

    I don't guess the heat output has anything to do with the ECO setting?
  • bobbysopranobobbysoprano Member Posts: 8
    Hi all .. I'm a new poster here, but have read these very helpful forums for months before we brought home a 2008 TCH about 2 weeks ago.

    The TCH is primarily my wife's car, but I've driven it quite a bit. As for the heated seats, I thought they were pretty hot, and got that way quickly. My wife has mentioned that it feels like there is a thermostat ... that shuts on and off. Personally ... I've shut the heater off within minutes because it's too hot for me.

    I've had plenty of vehicles with heated heats, and still have a CTS & Infiniti QX56. IMO ... the Camry seats get hotter, faster, than in my QX. I can't complain either, since the Camry was half the price. We both LOVE the car ... just wish we had bought one sooner.
  • tkozytkozy Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for all the responses, I am taking it in for the dealer to look at on Monday, I hope they can get them fixed and now just tell me they are working, I know the heat comes on but it just can barely be felt so its a waist. I have tried them with and without the ECO button. Thanks again.
  • golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    Took delivery of my TCH on Dec. 28, 2007. Loaded with Navigation. Love the car. Getting between 34 and 39 mpg (manual check). Still learning how to drive in order to max out mileage. I think the technology is really cool. With improvements in technology it will be interesting to see how high the mileage can go in the future.
  • gmyatkogmyatko Member Posts: 8
    I bought mine on Ebay, used from a private deal in Utah. Fantastic price for red, 19k mile hybrid with most options, (nav, leather, premium sound, sunroof), except ground effects and dual exhaust? so what. We love this car. I get a steady 32+ mpg and I don't drive easy. I also found a class 1 trailer hitch for a removable bike rack, also on ebay. It is plenty fast enough, and smooth. Nicest car I'll ever own.
  • galtguygaltguy Member Posts: 2
    I wanted to ask if anyone has had any problems with there hybrid catching on fire. My car caught on fire 7 months ago and I think is was caused by the batteries in the trunk that’s where the fire started please let me know this was a 2007 camry hybrid
  • gmyatkogmyatko Member Posts: 8
    There is a warning in the manual not to place anything on top of the vent on the rear deck beind the center rear passenger. It says this can overheat the battery.
  • texastchtexastch Member Posts: 1
    I just got my TCH yesterday. So far it is averaging just over 36mpg. Am going to take it on a road trip this weekend. I will report back after that. So far I am very pleased with how it drives and rides. :)
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    Well,I got myself a TCH. Here's my mini-report:

    Overall, nice car. Still on first tank; getting 33 mpg. (about 12 mpg than I was getting). I did a fair amount of research, so I knew what I was getting into.

    I am coming from another great car, an Accord (2003-2007 version).

    Pluses (compared to my Accord, which is a high bar in the first place):
    - MPG, MPG, MPG
    - Quieter, smoother ride, less vibration, and power is decent (coming from a V6 I was concerned, but it's all good)
    - Stereo is very good
    - Looks like a Lexus, but costs a lot less ;-)
    - Roomy drivers' area, even for tall people)
    - DC adapter layout is good; AUX input and pass-through hole are nice
    - Climate control very good
    - DRL (Daylight running lights; can be turned on or off, which is nice)
    - Navigiation/computer has lots and lot options.
    - Adjustable lumbar support (an air bladder, not a bar)
    - Bluetooth integration
    - Satellite radio integration

    Negs. (These are very minor nits by me; compared to the things I liked in the Accord, which set the bar high):
    - Plastic dash/trim seems slightly lower quality than Honda
    - Leather seems slightly lower qualitythan Honda (seat is not as "snug", so that may play into it.
    - Door ergonomics could be improved (arm rest is to small/short)
    - Mirror adjustment switch position could be improved
    - No auto up on driver window (but has auto down).
    - Navigation has lots and lots of options (learing curve)

    Overall, I am very pleased. This is a lot of car for the money. Being able to drive a full size sedan (my mobile "leather sofa") and get such good gas mileage is awesome. Sure, people say you can do it with the regular 4 cylinder, but in my experience, it is noiser, and there is more variation in the mileage.

    Another big thumbs up.
  • mapleleavemapleleave Member Posts: 25
    For 2010, a regular 4 will be the new 2.7L engine with a 6 speed auto. any expert out there can estimates the MPG incease compare with current 2.4L + 5 spd? It will have an estimated 185HP, so very similar to a 2009 Hybrid performance wise. I doubt the Hybrid will be changed for 2010.

    Current 2.4L is 21/31, conservatively a 10% increase for 2.7L+ 6spd would be 23/34, match the highway mileage # of Hybrid?

    Is it is good idea to get a Hybrid now, or to wait a year and pay less for a improved regular 4?
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    I thought about this too, but I bought this year because of fuel, maintenance cost and trade-in value change, based on my current vehicle (which was V6).

    I ran my numbers, and it was about $4,000 cheaper to buy this year than wait.

    So basically, it was "I can buy this year's Hybrid model (2009, fully loaded) for ~$24,000, (minus trade-in was ~$13,000), or I can wait a year, and pay ~$29,000 (minus trade-in ~$20,000 for the 2010 Hybid model (which may or may not have new body styling and other features.)

    The answer was pretty obvious for me. (I assumed a small price increase by Toyota, and assumed no unexpected out-of-warranty repairs on my current vehicle.)

    Now, comparing the regular Camry 4 cyl. vs the Hybrid, I think the answer might be different, as depending on trim level, there can be a big difference. And while the Hybrid fuel economy will beat the 4 cyl., it won't be as dramatic (and therefore less cost differential.) So it is always "cheaper" to ge the regular 4 cyl. over the Hybrid when looking over just one one year.

    You need to decide how much you can afford, and the costs. I would run them over 5 years and see what you come up with. A lot is preference; I would not by the base model of a new car, because to me, it I am going to go new, I want to fully enjoy it, and want all the toys and comforts.(which I know if they weren't there, would bother me over the 5 years).
  • s60leasers60leaser Member Posts: 61
    I too am trying to decide between a Hybrid or a regular 4cyl(either LE or XLE).
    Where can you get a "2009 fully loaded Hybrid at $24000"?
    I have been looking for a Hybrid ( or LE or XLE)with Leather, VS (std on Hybrid) CQ and UP options-Cant get a number close to that!

    Thanks for the help, in advance.
  • gmyatkogmyatko Member Posts: 8
    I bought my loaded '07 Camry hybrid on Ebay from a private party. It had 19k miles on it. They loved it. They even sent a dozen people to their dealership to buy the same car. They sold it because they had a second child and were going to buy a Highlander Hybrid.

    Anyway, mine was $25k with 19k miles on it. Hopefully like other Toyota's this would be "break-in" miles. No taxes no other charges, period. It was the ONLY Hybrid I could find in the US used at the time, so I felt pretty lucky. I've owned it for a year, and couldn't be happier. It has a heck of a lot of giddy-up for getting on a highway. I'm told it is comparable to an '06 3.3liter Camry. It certainly feels like a 6 second 0-60 kind of car. Not that I drive it like that, but sometimes when you need it....

    So that's my take on it. Maybe look around for a slightly used.
  • mapleleavemapleleave Member Posts: 25
    Hybrid is not so easy to adopt to new engine so there are always some delay. To make the new 2.7L into Hybrid will at least take a few years. So the MPG difference between 2010 regular I4+6sp and Hybrid+CVT will be relatively small for a couple of years and HP being the same. At the same time, I am also waiting for the next high MPG Prius, which should come next Summer. By that time, the next RXh might be available as well.

    Trade off is, I need to keep driving my 18mpg V6 for another 12~15 months (12k/year).
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Would any of the bikes on this page fit in the trunk after being folded?

    http://ridethisbike.com/products/Montague/SwissBike-LX-folding_bike.htm

    I don't know the dimensions of the trunk's interior. The listed cargo volume of 10.6 cu doesn't answer that question.
  • lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    Minimum trunk dimensions are roughly 45Wx27Dx20H.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The largest bike on that page for riders up to 6'6" says "Folded Size: 41” x 28” x 12”," but I would think it would still fit, but just not lay completely flat.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Just add a little hitch to the car and get a bike carrier that attaches via hitch. Then you can use any bike you want.

    My 2007 TCH has a hitch I got at U-Haul. Works great for small stuff.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I thought of that, but I heard that any trailer hitches will void your warranty because towing is not allowed.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Just because you have a hitch does not mean you have towed something.

    I have attached three different items to my hitch and none of them have been a "towed item with wheels on the ground."

    Using a bike carrier, a Segway hauler, or a cargo platform is not considered towing.
  • gmyatkogmyatko Member Posts: 8
    Hi,
    Can't say for 100%. I've had a regular 55cm road bicycle with both wheels off and placed on top of the frame with a blanket, and that all fit. The issue may be the handlebars, but if you are handy just a little, you can easily pull the bars with the cables attached and then it really should fit ok.

    The other thing I have is a class one trailer hitch on my camry hybrid. I put a bike rack on that, and have had as many as 4 (light) road bikes on it, or 3 mountain bikes. When I put heavy mountain bikes on, I put the wheels in the trunk. The bike rack is super easily removable.

    If you would like more information on the bike rack thing, let me know, gmyatko at gmail.com
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Someone posted that the owners manual says that even just the act of installing a trailer hitch on a Camry Hybrid is prohibited.
  • lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    On the subject of towing, the owner's manual says:

    "Towing Capacity: Toyota does not recommend towing a trailer with your vehicle. It is not designed for trailer towing."

    And then this:

    "Toyota also does not recommend the installation of a tow hitch or the use of a tow hitch carrier for a wheelchair, scooter, bicycle, etc. Your Toyota is not designed for trailer towing or for use of tow hitch mounted carriers."
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I think the "you can/will void the warranty if you add a hitch" thing is just an Urban Myth, perpetuated by the wimpiest and most paranoid among us.

    First of all: How could Toyota PROVE that you EVER towed anything? Even scrapes on the interior of the hitch connection could be explained away:

    "I bought the hitch used."

    or if you got the car used:

    "It was on there when I got the car."

    (Just my opinion.) I bet any good lawyer could get your warranty restored if Toyota ever tried to void it because you merely had a hitch installed.

    Wonder if it's ever really come up in a hybrid car warranty action? Anyone know?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Since they are concerned even with carrying carriers for wheelchairs, bicycles and scooters, maybe the underside of the bumper is different than on a non-Hybrid Camry and body damage may occur even from the mount even if you're not towing anything of any significant weight.
    I have heard there are some Hybrid components in that rear area.
    Maybe the underbody or bumper is just more easily damaged on the Hybrid.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, I can tell you I have had about 180 pounds on my hitch and nothing back there is "worse for wear."

    Have been to the dealer several times and no one has mentioned anything about the hitch.

    The U-Haul guy had no problems installing it, and nothing in the hybrid system was affected during the install.
  • lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    >>I bet any good lawyer could get your warranty restored if Toyota ever tried to void it . . . .

    Yep, probably so. But at what cost?

    Most likely, of course, the issue won't come up, especially if a little common sense is used. But, at the risk of sounding wimpy and paranoid, why not just buy a car designed to do what you want, rather than force it to do something it wasn't intended to do? :)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm not giving anyone else advice on how to use their car.

    On my 2007 TCH, I needed to haul a Segway, and now I need to haul a bike. When I go to Texas in June, I'm going to need to haul a little cargo platform.

    It is what it is.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    (Just my opinion.) I bet any good lawyer could get your warranty restored if Toyota ever tried to void it because you merely had a hitch installed.

    If there's a hint of a hitch installed on that hybrid - I bet NOT. I've seen them stonewall for much much less.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    "I bought the hitch used." or if you got the car used: "It was on there when I got the car."
    If it was an issue then I don't think these arguments would hold watter. However Toyota says "recommends" it does not say prohibts./ Recommends sounds like a suggestion, not a rule. If they had followed it uop with comments on voiding the warranty then they might have an argument but a recommendation (same way with oil changes, tire pressures etc) is not a finite requirement in my opinion (for what that's worth ;) ).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    However Toyota says "recommends" it does not say prohibts./ Recommends sounds like a suggestion, not a rule.

    Have you forgotten how Toyota denied the existence of the "sludge" scandal in their engines for nearly a year? Then blamed everything from independent shops changing the oil with the wrong type, to negligence on the part of the owner for not changing it soon enough, or at all. If the car hadn't been to the dealer and logged into the Oasis for every oil change, they denied coverage on a froze up engine for a long long time before they finally admitted there could be design problem.

    If I see a hitch on a Hybrid Camry - I'm going to assume the car was abused, and bet I could pretty easily avoid a claim that way. The burden would be on the owner to prove they did not abuse the car by pulling too much weight with it.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That would be easy. In the absence of any proof I towed anything, the court would side with me instead of "$40 Billion In the Bank Toyota."

    Being that I don't own anything "towable" nor could a review of my bank records turn up anything that said I owned or rented anything towable, I'm sitting pretty.

    This is kinda silly anyway. No one has ever heard of any hybrid car getting "de-warrantied" because of towing. Talking about it is a solution looking for a problem.
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    Allow me to clarify; the "2009 Fully Loaded Hybrid for $24K" - this basically included the opportunity costs, fuel cost, maintenance cost, lower trade-in on current car, etc.

    I will provide this as a rough summary which helped me make my decision (I'm excluding taxes, title, licence from this scenario to keep it simple):

    If I bought now:
    Camry Hybrid (fully loaded) : $28,000
    Minus Trade-in/Sales of old car :$12,000
    Net on vehicle: $16,000
    Minus avoided maintenace: $2,000 (was near a big maint interval in terms of miles)
    Minus avoided fuel cost: $1,500 (minimum)
    Plus refund on extended warranty: $250
    Plus Camry Maint for a year:$250

    Overall net cost: $12,500

    If I bought a year later (estimate):
    Camry Hybrid (loaded): $29,000 (could be higher or lower)
    Minus Trade-In/Sale of old car: $9,000 (could be higher, but the trend pointed to this)
    Net on vehicle: $20,000
    Plus additional maint: $2,000
    Plus additional fuel cost:$1,500 (minimum)
    Minus refund on extended warranty: $50
    Minus Camry maint (which I would not have since I didn't buy the car in the previous year): $250

    Overall net cost: $23,200

    So basically, it was $11,000 "cheaper" for me to buy now, than wait a year.

    You can look at what you pay for a car as one factor - I took a more wholistic approach to determine my oppotunity cost.

    So bascially, I am driving a new car for $12.5K, and, as Larry David would say "prettay, prettay, prettay" happy about the decision.
  • talmy1talmy1 Member Posts: 55
    You are counting items twice in a way that makes the difference greater. Looking just at expenses and assuming cars held for same period:

    Buy now:
    Net on vehicle $16000
    New maintenance $250
    Lost future value trading new hybrid that is a year older $3000
    Additional maintenance of new hybrid held a year longer $2000
    Overall net cost 21,250

    Buy in a year:
    Net on vehicle $20000
    Maintenance of old car $2000
    Additional fuel cost $1500
    Additional extended warranty cost on old car $200
    Overall net cost $23,700
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    Your numbers do not make sense. There is no double counting. (although I should have been clearer that the Camry maint. and refund on Warranty cancel each other out in the "buy now" scenario; the net number is still correct.

    Each transaction would need to be viewed as discrete events and compared.

    The future value of the hybrid resale or maintenace have no relevance in the buy now vs one year later scenario. It's the opporunity cost of purchasing the Camry now, not selling it in the furture. Not only are they not relevant, your estimates for furture maint and resale are incorrect (becuase you assume them to be the same as my current vehicle.)
  • talmy1talmy1 Member Posts: 55
    You are showing the difference in cost between buying this year (let's call it A) and next (lets call it B), so you are looking at B-A. If you add an expense, say X, to B and also subtract it from A, then the difference in cost is B+X-(A-X) or B + 2X - A, so the cost is factored in twice. You've done this on several items which make a purchase this year more favorable than it actually is.

    As a separate matter, I tried to take into account that by buying now you end up with a hybrid that is a year older, so will at any point in time have more depreciation and presumably more maintenance cost. Hard to say what those exact values are, and I just plugged in the same numbers as for your current car, but it still should be part of the equation.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Yes, I have seen car salesmen use that type of logic to sell cars. They say you better buy it now, because if you buy later your trade-in will be worth less than it is now (ignoring that the depreciation on the new car will also start at that point).
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    Again, nothing is factored twice - let's look at the assumptions I am using. And I will do this clearly without X-B+C formulas. And I will even simplfy it. This is a classic economics example.

    Today, based on my assumptions, what is more advantageous by now or one year later?.

    Assumptions - I want to drive a similar style vehicle. I want to avoid excessive out-of-warranty costs, maintenance costs, or fuel costs. I prefer to buy a new vehicle.

    My current car is a sunk cost. I have it. It is a fact it will be have less value when I sell it one year from now with the additional mileage. (So the whole depreciation of the new vehicle (Camry) is irrelevant - it does not factor into the purchase decision. (Sure it may factor into a furture selling/purchasing decision down the road, but that is not the part of this decision scenario)

    It is also a fact that it I stay with current car, I will have at least $2,000 in additional maintenace, and at least $1,500 in additional fuel costs. Right there, based on today, if nothing changes, I have "spent" $3,500.

    It is an estimate that the price of a Camry Hybrid will go up by $1,000. I think this is a conservative estimate, Other's may disagree. A basic 2007 TCH was $25,900. A basic 2009 TCH is 27,160, so I think I'm in the right ballpark.

    It is an estimate of how much my current car will be worth a year from now. I see a $3K difference, based on the trends for similar models. Maybe it wil only be $2K less. Again, I thnk I am in the ballpark, but others may disagree.

    So if I do "nothing" I am still out the maint, additional fuel. and current resale potiential (total $6,500)

    If I buy next year, I pay 29K, sell old car for 9K, So cost is 20K. I have to add in the maint and fuel differentials, because I had to incrur them. So that's $23.5K of "opportunity value/cost"

    If I buy today, I pay 28K for the car. I sell my old car for 12K. So the cost is 16K.
    I have to factor in the cost avoidance and fuel savings of $3,500, because I would have incurred that (even though I do not have the old car). (Some may disagree but remember, I know I will spend that if I do not buy now, so it _has_ to factor into consideration. So it's $12.5K to me in terms of "opportunity value/cost").

    If I buy next year, I pay 29K, sell old car for 9K, So cost is 20K. I have to add in the maint and fuel differentials, because I had to incrur them. So that's $23.5K of "opportunity value/cost"

    Buy today - $12.5K
    Buy tomorrow - $23.5K

    Again this is "opportunity cost/value", of the "what-if", not "actual dollars" examines after the fact a year from now.
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    I was not presenting car salesmen logic - I was present my scenario and factors. I've talked to hundreds of car salesmen, and they have NEVER suggested "buy now because your car will be worth less". (Most freely admit I can sell on the car on my own for more than the trade-in; the trade-in is just a convience factor.)
    They are usually pushing why it's nice to drive the new car. I have had them comment on resale as a selling point of the new car (ex. Honda, Toyota), but not as reason to dump current car.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Well, I have personally seen salesman use the the tactic of saying you should buy now because your trade in will depreciate every month you wait.
    However, the new car will you purchase today will depreciate at a much higher rate than an older will over the same time period, so depreciation cost isn't a savings.
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    True, depreciation is not a cost savings (unless you are buying the car as part of a business). Also true that newer cars depreciate faster than older ones (which everyone knows).

    In my example, I am not talking the accounting term of depreciation - I am talking the value of the car today on the market vs one year later on the market. Older and more used = less value.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,705
    I'm considering a TCH, and was wondering how the A/C handles 100+ degree days. How about when you come out to the car after it's been in the sun all day? Any differences?
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    I've not had 100 degrees (but 90s) and the AC works just fine.
  • gmyatkogmyatko Member Posts: 8
    I wonder how many people know that you can pull the little key out of the transmitter, and lock the car while it is running. Sometimes a handy feature. I was also told (never tried it) that if your transmitter batteries should ever die, you remove the key and wave it around near your on button, and you can start the vehicle then.

    This has nothing to do with the valet.
  • mikecmikec Member Posts: 40
    I do this all the time...when it is warm (or cold), I start the car, get out, lock the doors, and come back in a few minutes, and the temp is just right. Obviously this may burn more gas (depending on how warm the ICE is), but it's handy when I havve a few more things I need to do in the house before leaving.
  • talmy1talmy1 Member Posts: 55
    Going back to your original numbers, which claims you save $11,000 (actually $10,700). Lets look at what you actually pay:

    Buy now:
    Net cost of purchase $16,000
    less refund of warranty -$200
    Total is $15800.

    Buy next year:
    Net cost of purchase: $20,000
    Additional maintenance: $2000
    Additional Fuel $1500
    less refund of warranty $50
    Total is $23550

    Difference is $7750

    But I edited my previous message and it didn't take for some reason. I was generally ignoring your use of "opportunity cost" which distorts the real cost of ownership. Based on "opportunity cost" the lowest opportunity cost when buying new cars is to buy a new car every year (or even more often) because the only cost is the first year of depreciation -- and there is no repair cost on a 1 year old car. But when looked at over time, this is by far the most expensive approach as, for instance, an average 3 year old car is just going off warranty and has a three year depreciation rather than three (much higher) one year depreciations.
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