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Lincoln Navigator

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  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Oh MAN!!!!!
  • rangaranga Member Posts: 2
    I just bought a 2004 navigator with nav radio with Sirius and rear dvd system. After spending $5000 dollars for this system, I discovered a huge design flaw. You can't listen to sat radio while the kids in the back are watching a dvd with headphones. There is only one aux input on this radio which is shared by the two systems. "Dual play" is not feasible. Utter stupidity on the part of ford and Visteon engineers. My dealer claims ignorance and ford has no solutions and was quite apathetic. This is not a problem with the GM equivalent products.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That does suck....:(
  • shamahlshamahl Member Posts: 13
    Does anyone know if the nav system from one Nav can be placed in another Nav that was not originally equiped with one with no problems? Has anyone done this or know of anyone who has done this?
  • eques7eques7 Member Posts: 1
    What of trailer do you pull with the Navi? Length, weight, hay, water and lbs. horseflesh?
    Where do you tow your trailer- distance, elevation, speed, hills/ grade? Pulls nicely you say?
    I have a good ($25K) deal on a 2004 4x4 5.3L Avalanche, but I like the Navigator better- 5 more horsepower, 30 more ft-lbs torque, but shorter wheel base than Avalanche. Will probably pull shorter (14'), lighter (3000# horse trailer and usu. 1 horse 1100#) once per week, 200 miles round trip, 90% on flat highways of CA, sometimes into foothills up to 3000'.
    Thanks,
    Ron
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've pulled 5000 pounds with mine - don't even know it's back there. Handling ideal, power is awesome.
  • mesmeraldamesmeralda Member Posts: 2
    I had an '03 Nav, which Ford bought back, and just took delivery of an '04 Ultimate. I did some research and found this vehicle fits my family's needs. However I have a few questions that my dealership could not answer.
    1.) They say there are 9 speakers in this vehicle...where?
    2.) The dealership sublets the installation of the Sirius radio add-on to another individual. Any idea how and where the antenna for this looks and where is it mounted?
    3.) I got the blk ext. w/ light gray int. how do you keep this clean?
    4.) Anyone got the bluetooth accessory for a phone and how do you like it?
    The vehicle for the most part is great. My wife really enjoys it, seeing how she wouldn't let me get an '05 E500.
  • mesmeraldamesmeralda Member Posts: 2
    I've noticed that the mirror tilt down feature, for reverse, does not operate. On my '03 there was an option in the message center to activate it but I do not see it on my '04. Any help would be appreciated.
    Marty
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    1) the door speakers are 2-way speakers so that's 8 plus the subwoofer.

    2) if it's like the others I've seen it will be at the top of the rear hatch. It's about 6-8 inches long and 4 inches wide and is either black or painted to match. You've seen them on other vehicles but probably didn't realize what they were.

    3) Leather cleaner/conditioner. Shouldn't be a problem.

    4) check the Acura TL forum - they've had it for almost a year now. There are issues with interoperability of certain phones and some problems with voice commands.

    5) the reverse mirror tilt feature was apparently discontinued but I don't remember why. Check back on this forum or the Aviator forum.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    were discontinued due to chronic malfunctions (although I've had 0 trouble with mine). It's a great feature, one I was sorry to see them give up on.
  • sd31sd31 Member Posts: 2
    Any one out there have power running boards that don't deploy every time. Its unsafe and my dealership have had half a doozen goes at fixing it so far?
  • steve00gatorsteve00gator Member Posts: 24
    I have the 2003 with the tilt down mirrors. I love them but have had them worked on and replaced five times. First one then the other. After they would tilt down they would not return to the proper position. At 19000 miles I have just had the rear end replaced. I would get a whine at about 50 when I would accelerate. Had to wait almost a month for parts. Seems to have solved the problem.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    Has anyone out there driven an '04 and '05? Does the '05 engine make any real world difference (smoother, quicker) or is it just marketing hoo-ha?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ohhhh yes, much smoother and quicker. You receive the 3V version of the 5.4L that debuted in the '04 F-150. So you receive equal hoursepower, and improved torque, while using regular gas. The 6 speed automatic transmission is a segment first, same one sourced from Jaguar.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've had -0- problems with any of the running gear on my 03 Navigator, and only very minor issues with some of the doo-dads. But the tilt-down in reverse mirrors have been flawless on mine, and I'm over 21,000 miles now.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I guess I'm just gonna HAVE to test drive an '05 when my lease is up this December.

    I wonder if it'll impress me to the point of wanting to stick with the gator for a couple more years. Smoother, quicker, no more flapping molding (I HOPE), improved sound system... we'll see.

    Also, I'm hoping in late December Lincoln will be "giving" these luxo busses away like they are now ($6,500 in total factory rebates -on top of the best deal I can get through my dealer -- that's what's being offered for me to get out of my lease right NOW and into an '04). I don't want an '04 though, and the three lease payments I have left eat up too much potential savings... I'd rather wait.

    Decisions, decisions!!! :)

    Thanks ANT.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    My dealer has some 05's on the lot already, along with a boatload of 04's. I drove one. I was impressed. Seemed tighter, more solid, smoother, quieter. Didn't notice any difference in power, but then, I don't have a problem with that anyway, mine seems to have plenty now. Maybe you can get an 05 now.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    ..are "only" $1,000 at the moment according to the offer sent to me.

    I really hope I can tell a difference with the new engine.. my 03 navi just doesn't run as smooth as I'd like it to. I guess I want the impossible in a vehicle this large... an ultra-smooth, tight, and lightning-fast/responsive isolation chamber while on the freeway.

    I guess vehicles this large will always have their trade-offs.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Let's also take note, sometimes we believe vehicles are less responsive, slow, because of how quiet they really are. The new 3V 5.4L coupled with the 6 speed automatic will jolt you a bit on your seat once you first press the accelerator. Maybe that jolt might make some perceive it as being a bit more stronger.

    Plus the old 4V version require you to work the accelerator harder to make it breathe higher, which allowed it to gain it's power up high. This new version will not need to work as much, hence, Better fuel economy.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, with gas prices going up, up, up, I'm not offended by being able to fill up with Regular again. That's for sure. Anything else will be a bonus.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ok, the beast will continue to require premium fuel. Urrrr It has to do with improved emissions/diagnostics, while allowing it to post better fuel economy.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I was wondering about that myself. It may put out more than 300 hp on premium. Ford has been underrating their high hp engines lately. The 300 hp mustang GT appears to be closer to 320.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Could be an insurance reason, hmmmmm.....
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Oh, drat! Budget revision time again....

    But does this mean this same engine in an Expedition will require Premium as well??? And if not, what the heck is going on? Same engine, isn't it?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Same engine, same output numerically. The Expy and F-150 require regular. The Navi will require premium because of other components, I'll explain later.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    OH brother! You pay to play, evidently..... Well, please do explain, because I'm facinated by this, and it's looking like I'll be owning an 06 Navigator at this point. Can't resist the "Red Carpet" it seems......
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's all in the tuning, especially timing and compression ratios. Higher compression ratios and advanced timing require higher octane to avoid knocking.

    My Aviator has the 4.6L 300 hp and requires Premium but the Explorer 4.6L does not. But it only makes 260 hp.

    There could be some other reason also as ANT implied.

    But let's get real folks - you're talking about $3-$4 per week on average. You probably waste that much on soda or bottled water or coffee or junk food. And it's the same price difference regardless of whether regular is $1.49 or $2.49 - it's still a difference of $0.20 per gallon.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Actually the Explorer makes 239HP with it's SOHC 2V setup slightly different design than the Aviator which has a DOHC 4V which was the same engine the previous Mustang Cobra (320HP), and Mercury Marauder (300HP) had. Which explains the premium gas, to extra the full potential of the engine and increase compression.

    Next year Explorer receives the 3V version of the 4.6L that's debuted in the new Mustang.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think I got the explorer V8 confused with the 4.6L Expedition which does make 260.

    Just goes to show you there's a lot of room for tuning an engine. That's over 80 hp difference for the same displacement. Not counting superchargers.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Expedition's 4.6L also 2V SOHC makes 239HP as well, (same as the Explorer). The 5.4L 2V was the one that made 260HP. Don't confuse it with the 4.6L in last generation's Mustang that made 260HP, but from a 4.6L 2V (tuned differently than the Explorer).

    This year in the Expy, it loses the 4.6L, and the sole engine will be the 5.4L 3V making 300HP, same one as the F-150.

    Usually when you DOHC a V8 engine, you can extract anywhere from 25-40HP (more if you increase the compression which would require premium). And when you place a full dual exhaust system, you can gain 10-20HP approx. (difference between the Explorer's 4.6L and Mustang's 4.6L).

    Interesting note: there's very few (if any) DOHC V8 engined passenger cars under $30K. In fact, I believe the Marauder and Mustang SVT Cobra were some recently departed one's. (Not couting trucks/SUV's since those make higher profits in their less complex engineering, that offset the engine cost).

    The new generation of 3V's 4.6L, 5.4L and 6.8L allows the engine to accomplish DOHC power, with better fuel efficiency, less complexity, and less cost to build. Hence, why 3V will/has replace/d Mustangs 4.6L, Explorer 4.6L, Expy 5.4L, Navi Intech 5.4L, etc.etc.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I knew ONE of those engines somewhere made 260 hp.

    And I had a 5.4L expedition so I should have remembered.

    Thanks for setting the record straight.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Even my brain Rolodex has a hard time keeping up with them, which is how I made the mistake on saying the Navi engine would take regular.

    But yes, the 260HP 5.4L, originally started at 230HP when it first debuted in th Expy back in 97-98. Through the years it has grown in performance, and as seen in the GT (4V), it can produce 550HP with a Supercharger.

    Each application is different, and tuned different. Which explains why the Mazda6 3.0L makes 220HP, not like the 500's 3.0L, and why the Ranger's 2.3L I4 is rated at 135HP when the same engine makes 160HP in the Mazda3. etc.etc.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    but you're skirting the question I asked, which is again:

    Why does the 05 Navigator require Premium, if it has the same engine as the Expedition which requires regular, and produces the same HP output? It's not that I mind paying for the Premium, and I always do, btw, I just want to know with the 3V - what's the difference between the two applications for 05?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    It deals mostly with emissions, computer programming, new transmission. When I receive a detailed explaination that I'm happy with, I'll share.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok, ANT. I'll be here. Meantime, I love my Navigator more with each mile driven. This is one amazing vehicle.
  • njcatlovernjcatlover Member Posts: 7
    Well, my husband has walked out on me and the kids after 17 years of marriage :(
    My "parting gift" is that I get to purchase a new vehicle before he leaves to replace my Ford Explorer. It was an older model that accelerated on its own, going up to 100 mph before I panicked, hit the brakes, & caused it to flip over 7 or 8 times.
    I mention these two things because A:) I dont TRUST vehicles as I did before and want something I can feel safe in and B:)I dont have that "Manly advice" you can get from your husband about which vehicle to pick-LOL.
    I've picked through many old threads here as fast as my VERY OLD COMPUTER & MODEM will allow but cant seem to find a "great" reason to pick the Aviator or Navigator over each other??
    I see "whining noise" mentioned on the Aviator, not enough "Power" on the Navigator.....

    It would be nice to have a quiet vehicle. I am very short, myself, only have two kids, and now, no husband, so I dont NEED the larger Navigator....

    If my finances will allow either a 2004 Aviator or a 2003-2004 Navigator is there any definitive reason to favor one over another?

    Are there many features that are not in the Aviator that make the Navigator more "worthwhile?"

    I obviously would love the Roll Stability feature because I have no desire to watch the world go upside down again but it seems that feature is hard to find?

    Lastly, and this question may yell out "Car Ignorance" but why is it that the MSRP for the 2005 Aviators is not much more than the 2004?

    Thank you in advance for your help. I hope someone can post just the right remark to help me make a decision one way or the other. I just know they are both GORGEOUS on the inside and if I need to replace my car I want to be looking at that Gorgeous polished Nickel!!!

    Barbara
  • texasmomtexasmom Member Posts: 114
    Plan to get '05 Nav, Ultimate and was told by a neighbor who has '04 Nav, Ultimate 4WD that there is something stronger about the front suspension (I think) in the 4WD version of the truck than in the 2WD version. He said that this component (again, I think he said the front suspension, but I'm not sure) is less robust in the 2WD version and will ultimately cause the front of the truck to be lower than the back--giving it the look of "nose-diving" after awhile. This info is bad news for me because I didn't want to shell out for 4WD since I won't be needing it in our climate/driving situation.
    Does anybody have any info to offer before I make my decision on this potentially important issue? Thanks!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Your source must be talking about the front springs and yes, they're stronger in the 4WD model because there is more weight to support. I have not heard of recent Navigators having a problem with front springs so I'm not sure where that concern comes from.

    I would not hesitate to go with 2wd if you don't need 4wd capability. There are far more parts to worry about that are more serious than a droopy front (which I'm still not sure I believe).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, since the truck has load leveling and air springs at all four corners, monitored for accurate height at all times, I can't see how the 2WD could be at risk for a problem, but mine is a 2WD, is a year and a half old, has 22,000 miles on it, and it's just fine. I've had no drive train or suspension issues at all.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    In the majority of 4WD vehicles, chances are the suspension components differ from their 2WD counterparts mainly because of the increased weight they must carry and stress placed upon those parts, hence, they are of quality to match what they must sustain. Easily, a true 4WD system will add anywhere from 300-450lbs to a vehicle. In the opposite spectrum, we have examples like Haldex AWD systems (which turn on ONLY when slip is detected over the driver wheels) that might add 150-200lbs to a vehicle. Gotta pay, to play.

    As for the nose diving, it has to be completely dramatic, full body weight thrusting upon the brake pedal to cause such an action. And if so, it levels itself quickly and will hardly be detectable to anyone or the driver. We aren't talking about the nose diving, chin scraping nose diving commonly found on Caddy's, Buicks of the 70's either. And if the actual driver of such a vehicle is able to accomplish that in such a vehicle, they should have bought a sports car, NOT an SUV.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    isn't 90% of the extra weight in the front of a 4WD truck unsprung weight anyway? So it wouldn't matter to the springs either way!
  • texasmomtexasmom Member Posts: 114
    On the '05 Navigator does anybody have the HID headlights? I want to get them but am not sure if they're really better than the standard headlights. I've been reading what I can find on the internet and it looks like there are definitely pros and cons--even aside from the up-front cost, the replacement cost and the glare issue for fellow motorists. Yet, I want them if they're better.
    Consumer Reports free on-line article said that not all HID headlights are better than their non-HID counterparts. I don't know if the magazine has rated the Navigator's HID's or not.
    Finally, I've heard that they might be a theft target. I would hate to have that happen since I carry a high deductible, not to mention the inconvenience of having to take it in to get the bulb replaced.
    Any comments?
    By the way, the replies about the 4 wheel drive versus 2 wheel drive and the springs were just what I needed to hear. I'm so grateful. It makes me want to go help somebody else.
    Okay, back to the door--it's Halloween.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I have 'em. I think they're great, but I don't know if they're that much better. I've not heard of them being a theft target except on Nissan Maxima's for some wierd reason. They come as part of your Ultimate upgrade package I think, if you go for that, so you pretty much either get 'em, or you don't.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Check out Stolen Headlights!!.

    Steve, Host
  • aggiedogaggiedog Member Posts: 238
    I finally test drove an 04 ULT 4x4 this past weekend. What a great truck. It was an extended test drive on local roads and the highway. One of those great dealers that lets you go on the test drive without them. I loved it. I also drove an Armada right after the Nav. Now that was a fiasco.
  • texasmomtexasmom Member Posts: 114
    Is it possible to use the seat cooling function when the motor isn't running? If so, for how long could you do it without running the battery down? How does it work? Does cold air come out or is refrigerant pumped through coils? I'm not very mechanically-minded, but very curious about this feature and under what conditions it could be used. I'm envisioning situations where I'd maybe be waiting for something/someone in a parked car and be able to keep cool enough by using the seat cooler. In Texas it is often so hot that people run their engines to keep the air conditioners on while they wait to pick up passengers, etc. The waits can sometimes be pretty long.
    One other question--I've seen the brake dust on the front wheels of a few Navigators around here, so I was wondering, do all the 2WD Navigators come with the same kind of brakes or does it depend on the type of wheels you get? (Sorry, if that's a dumb question, but I told you all I'm not the least bit mechanically savvy.)
    Very grateful for any information that anybody can share!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The seat heater/coolers use a peltier device which is electrically powered plus a small fan, so it's possible it will work with the ignition on but the engine off. However, it will probably take a lot of electricity and drain the battery very quickly.

    Why not just turn the engine on every few minutes or leave it running? The seats alone won't keep you cool if it's really hot.
  • texasmomtexasmom Member Posts: 114
    Thanks for clearing that up and for pointing out that the cooling feature isn't robust enough to substitute for a/c if it's really hot.

    Any opinions or advice about '05 Navigator buying and ownership? I am in the process of buying one, choosing color, options, etc. I'm looking for an Ultimate w/ all the options except chrome wheels and in my area it seems that most of the "loaded" models on the lots are either black or Cashmere Tri-Coat.
    I've tried to like the Cashmere color but it just looks odd to me--unless I see it in very bright sunlight. Any other time of day it's somehow "flat" looking.
    Any advice on factory DVD versus aftermarket twin big screen w/ extra "bells and whistles" like 115 volt outlets, etc.? I know that it would be nice to have the DVD covered by the bumper to bumper warranty but the screen is smallish and being willing to accept one w/o DVD would bring more vehicles into the choices.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Aftermarket DVDs are easy to add. I prefer the screens in the headrest or mounted to the center console myself. Even if you wanted the factory system it (or one very similar) can usually be added by the dealer.

    I had the factory VHS system installed in my 99 expedition back in 2000 when my kids were 11 and 5. We used it for a few months and hardly ever turned it on again. I traded it last year for an Aviator and we did not opt for the DVD system.

    Nowadays you can get portable players for $300 that can be used anywhere, so you might want to consider that.
  • texasmomtexasmom Member Posts: 114
    It's weird that I'd be willing to pay so darn much for a little 7" screen that, realistically, won't be watched more than once or twice a month. This weekend we all listened to a Stephen King tape on the car stereo and even I (the driver) could enjoy the story. Books on tape or CD are way under-appreciated, in my opinion. So, why didn't your kids want to watch it? No road trips? Was it their age difference? I'm really curious. I'm about to make a purchase any day.
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