Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Can Toyota handle being number 1?
corvettefan427
Member Posts: 92
Toyota is expected to surpass GM this year as the world largest automaker. They have grown so large because they have garnered a reputation for making quality vehicles. However, it is much easier to make sure that every vehicle being produced is of very high quality, when you have less vehicles rolling out the door, and recently, Toyota has been slipping. If you read the forums discussion on the 2007 Camry, there are many people who have already had bad experiences, and the Edmunds review of the new Yaris is very unfavorable. I have also compiled this article from forbes.com along with some quotes from it and other articles from the website that show Toyota may not be able to produce the same ''quality'' cars they have come to be known for if they continue to produce so many vehicles.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2006/07/18/ap2886860.html?partner=alerts
''Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it was recalling about 420,000 vehicles globally, including some Echo and Prius models sold in the U.S., over a faulty engine part.
The faulty part is the latest in a string of problems requiring recalls by Toyota, raising doubts over whether the automaker can maintain quality standards amid booming sales.''
''The investigation was another embarrassment for Toyota, whose once impeccable image has been tarnished by a number of recalls. ''
''Three Toyota officials also face allegations that they failed for about eight years to announce a recall after learning the Hilux Surf had a defective relay rod, which connects the steering wheel to the front wheels.''
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2006/07/18/ap2886860.html?partner=alerts
''Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it was recalling about 420,000 vehicles globally, including some Echo and Prius models sold in the U.S., over a faulty engine part.
The faulty part is the latest in a string of problems requiring recalls by Toyota, raising doubts over whether the automaker can maintain quality standards amid booming sales.''
''The investigation was another embarrassment for Toyota, whose once impeccable image has been tarnished by a number of recalls. ''
''Three Toyota officials also face allegations that they failed for about eight years to announce a recall after learning the Hilux Surf had a defective relay rod, which connects the steering wheel to the front wheels.''
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Or put out engineering that fixes the problem on paper and gets the defect addressed while the car moves along, somewhere in the process. I know that increasing the line speed no doubt is creating some serious stress.
It is going to be interesting to see how Toyota handles this growing concern. Car enthusiasts are noticing and, if the company isn't careful, normal car people out there are going to start hearing about real Toyota quality problems. That, my car-freak friends, is called dancing on dangerous ground for Mr.T. :surprise:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Notice all the headlines on Toyota's recent recalls. Toyota recalls once were ignored by journalists.
We saw this with Microsoft years ago. Headlines like 'Can this band of upstarts displace IBM?' and articles filled with breathless excitement about Bill Gates.
Same with Wal Mart. The media was full of news reports asking 'Can this Arkansas store group expand nationwide?' 'Could Wal Mart someday be larger than Sears or K Mart?' Article after article was written about the genius of Sam Walton.
Once a company actually is #1 the media pulls out the long knives.
Toyota is still in the top three best made cars on all the 3rd party studies.
Rocky
Having said that, I wouldn't be afraid to purchase a Toyota. I just don't think that the long-term reliability would be measurably better than GM/Ford/etc.
Toyota finishes in the Top 3 in just about any reliability study which is published.
That's not an opinion.
Toyota already does not have a great retirement plan, and it's because they are smart as a corporation.
Look at GM with their ridiculously overdone benefit plans of the 70s and 80s and 90s - now they are paying dearly for it.
You can be LARGE and GOOD and a GOOD EMPLOYER all at once - they are not mutually exclusive....
That'll work for a few years, until their American workers start retiring and find that they are SOL because they didn't save enough. They might not be so happy after that. But the heck with them.
It's why pensions are going the way of the dodo - good for the corporations, bad for the workers. Whether you care or not depends on whether you're an employee or shareholder. But I shudder to think of the upcoming welfare crisis in a few decades - there are a lot of people who are BAD savers.
Rocky
The last two Toyota's that I've owned (2005 Tacoma 4x4 DC TRD Sport, and especially the 2007 Camry XLE V6) showed substantial shortcomings in engineering, build quality, and reliability. When I addressed these issues with Toyota's Corporate "Customer Service" department I was rewarded with the worst customer service experience of my adult life.
Before that I had excellent luck with my Toyota vehicles, which included various Tacoma, Camry and Sienna models.
I firmly believe that the incessant cost cutting at Toyota is really taking a big bite out of the quality that Toyota used to deliver with their vehicles. Growth and all that goes with it is taking another big bite out of the quality picture at Toyota.
It looks as though the highest levels of Toyota Corporate Management in Japan understand what a pickle they are in
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-07-20-toyota-quality_x.htm
but it will take them a while to get things back on track, if ever.
The Corporate side of Toyota Motor Sales USA is mired in bureaucracy and just does not seem to know how to respect a customer.
The gentleman who has the title of "Vice President of Customer Services" apparently does not actually ever talk to customers. How in the world can this person do their job correctly if they don't talk to the folks that they are supposed to be taking care of?
Toyota has some real issues. My recommendation is "Buyer Beware".
GM pays all of its employees more, gives them more time off, and gives them greater benefits than Toyota.
That's right, they do, and look where it got them - on the verge of losing #1, being bought out, profit on the nosedive, reputation for vision destroyed, possible government bailout of their retirement pensions, etc etc.
That might be very NICE of them, but the shareholders are paying the price now, and so might WE if a govt bailout happens.
Toyota is approaching it the correct way - don't go overboard with benefits.
Toyota isn't so perfect are they ? They even tried to cover up the recall issue of the hundreds of thousands of vehicles.
Toyota pays their workforce better than GM's new hires because they are offering benefits. So you could say Toyota is currently going overboard on benefits. :P
It's pretty sad when we look at other americans and wish them the worst. :sick:
Rocky
There HAS to be a balance between the compensation packages and long-term profitability. If Toyota is striking this balance correctly, seems like they'd be a model for other manufacturers.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
And no car company or any company or any person is perfect.
But there has to be a "Number One" and I'm plenty happy to see Toyota become that designee, because I know they make great cars, and so does anyone else who follows the car industry.
I'm still very mad at GM about the EV1 and I might never get over that. What a shame that was to kill that program.
What's a shame is we have over paid suits in the automobile industry that have no motivation or drive to be #1 or stay.
They continue to blame others for their failures. Many of these suits came from the so-called "greatest generation" and just because your a overpaid suit, doesn't make you great.
I personally don't think Toyota, deserves to be #1 and they have been hyped by the media for the last 10-15 years and not one model of theirs is any better than lets say a Honda/Acura or a Nissan/Infiniti IMHO.
Rocky
Guess you should have leased more of them. :P
(estupidos)
As far as Toyota stepping up to make an EV car, they might someday. They at least admitted they are working on a plug-in Prius. They also have a goal of 94 MPG for the next gen Prius.
Apparently Mitsubishi is the only company who is seriously working on a full EV for the USA market. Battery technology needs to improve, so we'll see how that goes.
I thought it was 103 MPG ?
Rocky
If their product doesn't do Toyota in first, their arrogance and lack of customer service will inexorably tie the name "Toyota" with the word "hubris."
Sometimes, Edmunds editors just do not represent most of the Americans. If you kinda check out the rating of Yaris, it is 9.5 which is pretty good.
Edmunds people also choose Accord over Camry, but sales told you what Americans like better?
However, I am afraid that 2007 Camry is likely to ruin the reputation of Toyota. Hope Toyota will take it seriously and solve the problem.
It is possible that some Toyota officals (former and current) in Japan will be indicted for not recalling (in 1996, when they initially investigated) the trucks that were finally recalled last year. The Japanese government is a lot more strict about holding car companies accountable than the U.S. government is.
Toyoa can handle being number one, to address the title of the thread, but structural changes will need to be made to handle the rate of growth which is now exceeding any other time in Toyota's history. If you "believe the hype" (Toyota's recent apologies and press releases), those structural changes are already in the works and will be happening in the near future.
Despite some complaints to the contrary here on the boards, I still think that one of the few things that makes Toyota stand out in an automotive world of increasing sameness is their superlative attention to backing up the product even years out of warranty, as well as their track record of listening to their customers.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That's right, they do, and look where it got them - on the verge of losing #1, being bought out, profit on the nosedive, reputation for vision destroyed, possible government bailout of their retirement pensions, etc etc.
That might be very NICE of them, but the shareholders are paying the price now, and so might WE if a govt bailout happens.
Toyota is approaching it the correct way - don't go overboard with benefits
First off, there will be no govt bailout as long as GW Bush is president, and secondly they wont need it. Your right, it is a nice thing to do, but its more than that, its the right thing to do to pay your employees well and to give them good health benefits.
Too bad Mitsubishi may not stay in the US market much longer. After only selling around 125,000 cars this year, they have said they may pull out of the US market in the next few years if market share doesn't go up. And people think GM is doing bad, Mitsubishi total sold about as many cars as GM has sold with their successful models like the impala.
Sure, up to a POINT. But when benefits start becoming a factor in the demise of the company, then it's time to face reality.
GM in the old days used that benefits package to entice the "best and the brightest" to their company. That's not working today, and the engineering and marketing has suffered.
Toyota will have to address their quality issues in a more effective way as their volume increases. It's nothing any growing company hasn't had to do - just on a larger scale.
Rocky
"Man Up Toyota for yor mistakes" :mad:
Rocky
It's a car company saying, "hey we found out something is broken on one of our cars. Bring it to us and we will fix it for free."
That's "manning up for the mistake."
and to add to that... no car company does a recall out of the goodness of their heart.. they do it because the government forces them to!!!
Last year it was some 2.5 million, including 1.1 million SUVs and pick-ups (worldwide) that were more than a decade old at the time of the recall. This was required of Toyota by the Japanese equivalent of the commerce department, because of one incident with a Hilux Surf (the Japanese and Asian market 4Runner) which injured 5 people. Which vehicle was 11 years old at the time of the incident. Makes me wonder, WWGMD (what would GM do). Or Ford. And would American NHTSA regulations require such a recall here? At the age of 10 years (or more - the recall went back to a few 1988 models, which were already 17 years old at the time of the recall), I would argue that safety problems with the vehicle are as much the responsibility of the owner (maintenance and repairs) as the original builder.
Some of the recalls this year have been scary though, and really make me question Toyota. First and foremost was the recall in the spring of all those Priuses because steering components were too thin and could fracture, leading to loss of control of the vehicle? That smacks of either trying to reduce vehicle weight and going too far, or cost-cutting on your suppliers, both of which I emphatically do not approve of. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116181
Toyota will weather this. Head office management in Japan understands that quality is the key to their image.
Defects that cause recalls - and the recent corporate cover ups - have to be dealt with.
Toyota produces reliable, vanilla flavored cars. Without the reliability the vanilla flavor isn't appealing.
I do hope Toyota gets back on their game very quickly. It is true that their rep for flawless but boring transportation appliances is what causes their sales to be so high. I believe they have two other edges over other carmakers: build consistency, and backing of their product in the short and long term. But those won't matter much to consumers if their reliability rep gets damaged enough.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060720/AUTO01/607200422/1148
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060731/AUTO01/607310359/- 1148
Rocky
-Rocky
But sales numbers and rants and raves of "#1, #1!!!"?
Not Toyota's thing. It's not really a rah rah company.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Expert from:
Toyota Net Shows Sting of Rapid Growth – WSJ
By Amy Chozick 5/10/07
But not all models have been selling briskly. Sales of the redesigned Tundra pickup truck, an important model for Toyota as it provides higher margins than compacts such as the Corolla, have been slow despite large discounts. Analysts say Toyota might not meet its relatively modest goal of selling 200,000 Tundras in the U.S. this year. The company cites a slow U.S. market and fierce competition in the pickup-truck sector for the weak sales.
Critics also say Toyota is sacrificing some of its vaunted quality in its rush to bring new products to market. In the past year, Toyota has recalled hundreds of thousands of vehicles. The company has also decided to delay introductions of some models in the U.S. by as many as six months so engineers can conduct more quality checks.
At a news conference yesterday, President Katsuaki Watanabe said the car maker would continue to incur expenses in order to "fully improve our quality." .
At a news conference yesterday, President Katsuaki Watanabe said the car maker would continue to incur expenses in order to "fully improve our quality." .
And with the bank account that they have, no doubt they'll be back on track in no time.
point is, honda and toyota may have recalls and quality control issues (their cars are all being manufactured in united states do you actually expect bulletproof cars??) but i highly doubt they will ever approach the levels seen in german and american cars. reading over many of these posts all i see is a whole lot of reaching and hoping. keep hoping because you will be doing so for a very long time. toyota and honda will dominate the landscape for years and years the way things are going.
tell me something?? what automaker can offer a lineup superior to this one??
matrix
yaris
corolla
camry
sienna
4runner
rav4
tundra
tacoma
sequoia
HYBRIDS
avalon
the whole lexus lineup
i mean who can top this besides honda???
NOBODY IS THIS WELL ROUNDED. FACE IT AMERICA AND FACE IT WORLD.
some of you might be thinking well FORD has a huge lineup. absolutely no answer to the corolla and tacoma. just not even close. even the camry. the rav4 is something they also can't touch. the sienna?? they have no answer to the sienna or even the avalon. they can't even touch the avalon.
and they don't have anything close to a lexus.
GM?? they have sold a high volume of vehicles over the years yes but that doesn't mean they are necessarily good vehicles. we all know the truth.
But i am sure not every1 will agree.
1 thing is certain bmw's and benz are always going to try having a better technology, i don't say they will get it right or not but they keep trying ...
They have already demonstrated what it takes to get to the top, and there's no doubt they have what it takes to remain firmly in control of the top slot.
Toyota, like it or not, is an incredibly strong organization, from top to bottom.
Sorry to say, they have literally re-invented the business of designing, manufacturing, and marketing automobiles.
They have diligently refined all the necessary business disciplines and have incredible strengths in all of them.
I am saddened by the decline in the former big three fortunes, but defending them voiciferously isn't going to change anything--at least not for the foreseeable future.
Ford and Chrysler are in serious trouble, and GM is struggling.
I believe the end is already in sight for the first two, and GM just might stage a shaky comeback over time--altho' I doubt it will be back in first place (if it ever happens)for some time to come.
I would not try to put a nail in the Big 3 Coffin yet. Toyota may sell more vehicles world wide. They are still not close in the biggest market. The good old USA. The Big 3 still sell more PU trucks than Toyota and Honda sell cars. The only reason that Toyota makes more net profit is their sweat shop operations. That will catch up with them as their work force starts to age.
If they plan to outsell the Big 3 with their new Tundra, good luck to those that do not look underneath that piece of cheap tin. It is not what I want in a truck chassis. They have also gone down hill with their new Camry. It is not the rock solid mid size it was just a few years ago.
If I were you, I wouldn't bet too heavily on the Big 3 right now, especially Chrysler and Ford.
I might be persuaded to wager very conservatively on GM, but I'd think about it some more before putting any real money down. GM is just too far behind right now.
Toyota is light years ahead on all facets of the business.
I also disagree strongly with your sweatshop at Toyota analogy. That's just not true, and I can't imagine how you can even think that. Surely you don't believe it!
Toyota excels in lean manufacturing, and has been using those techniques for years.
Lean manufacturing doesn't mean working harder, it attains efficiencies through working smarter.
Toyota plants are generally more efficient than the big three.
I have spent much time as a long term manufacturing engineer in many big three plants as well as several Toyota plants.
Believe me when I say the average Toyota worker has a much less stressful and strenuous time than any of those at big three plants.
Toyota workers are far better trained, far more flexible, much more efficient and way more productive than their big three counterparts--with a great deal less physical effort.
Toyota: Suicide and Worker Depression at the World's Most Profitable Manufacturer (Z Net)
Permanent Job Proves An Elusive Dream (Washington Post)
Not all the negative net hits for "Toyota wages" are from the liberal or union press either. Now that Toyota is number 1, the negative press is sure to increase too.
Which brings us back to how will Toyota handle being #1?
What people are saying about Toyota ousting GM from sales throne (Straightline)
C'mon be serious now. I am certain that the workers in KY and IN and TX don't feel like they're working in sweatshops. That's a very unfair and unfounded viewpoint from the comfort of your house in the hills of San Diego.
If they plan to outsell the Big 3 with their new Tundra, good luck to those that do not look underneath that piece of cheap tin. It is not what I want in a truck chassis. They have also gone down hill with their new Camry. It is not the rock solid mid size it was just a few years ago.
The Tundra will likely never outsell the F150 or GM's in the near future ( the RAM is well within reach ) nor is it intended to. Your third-party from-a-distance view of the Camry fly in the face of continued record sales and very positive reactions from the market. Edmunds, herein, for example.
Were there difficulties when the '07 Camry was introduced? absolutely. For the most part these seem to have been resolved and the clients very happy - for the most part. This new Gen Camry line is the best ever in terms of styling ( my opinion ), content, value, performance and economy.