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Comments
The new version Avalon was out with the 2GR engine a year before the Sonata or Avalon. But who cares. What Hyundai seems to do is to let other brands bring out a technology, then improve it, see what the public thinks, and then Hyundai offers it for less money, or on more of its models. Vehicle Stabilization or Hyundai's Electronic Stability Control is an example. The first time I had it it was in an 00 Avalon XLS, where it was standard equipment with that trim. I loved it. I noticed that the next year, it became an option even on the highest content Avalon. (I think it put the Avalon too close to Lexus territory). What Hyundai has done is to put it in virtually all its models (high and low) as standard equipment. No other manufacturer I am aware of, has done that. It might be fair to say that Hyundai follows technology from other brands and then leads in making it more readily available.
I know the engine in the concept Genesis is a brand new one for Hyundai (but making a V8 is not exactly a new technology). What I expect is for Hyundai again to take "high end" technology like adaptive cruise control, HID lights, heated and cooled seats, etc., and offer them in a vehicle for far less than other brands are charging. I doubt any thing on the "Genesis" will be bleeding edge, but expect it to be within view of cutting edge and all of it tested, well built, and amazingly affordable for all we will get.
Is that leading or following. In my mind it is a little of both, Hyundai is not an "early adaptor", but they now do a very decent job of copying and refining, and then lead in bringing it out on a wider scale at a better price. And they are now building cars of quality.
That is what Toyota and others have to worry about. They must worry about the amount they spend on research and development to be cutting edge (bleeding being left to the Germans) and getting the public to want the technology and then having Hyundai (and I assume others like the Chinese) then building on what they developed and selling it without having had the massive up front development costs.
Previously, I think Toyota under the Lexus Division did exactly the same thing to BMW and MB as Hyundai is now doing to Toyota. And we have all benefited from that tactic (unless you have stock in or work for Ford, GM, or Chrysler).
However...you still don't have an answer as to what they might have done had Hyundai not dropped a 263 HP Azera! The answer is...you don't know.
Maybe Hyundai, specifically, didn't force them into the HP wars, however...the timing of everything sure makes it look like they did!!!
Heck...if it wasn't for Nissan and Honda jumping the way they did, they would all be plugging along!
actually, I think I do, and I believe the answer is that they couldn't care less, the XG 350, at that time not being competitive to the old Avalon in their minds, never mind the new one. Same really applies to the Sonata as well, Toyota (however mistakenly) is much more concerned with what Honda and Nissan are doing. The well conceived Azera, OTH, a much different color of horse, IMPO.
BTW, are there any car companies that have not significantly made available increased HP over the last 5 years??? Finally even Ford has upped the HP in the 500/Taurus.
If the race is on, then the Bugatti Veyron with 1000HP has won. Of course, I could not afford to insure it, let alone own it. So, what is the point of who got to whatever hp first???
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I also feel the same about the Azera and believe, having had both and driven a new 06 AV Limited a fair amount that the Azera is QUITE close to the Avalon and is a much better value for me. I just do not think the Avalon is $4K-$5K better And yes, I understand the resale issue, but I still had to come up with that $4,900 difference (in my case), and I could not justify it.
Maxima - Sportiest
Azera - Best Value
Lucerne - Softest ride, old school bullet proof technology
Avalon - best compromise in terms of power, ride, handling and economy (in this class of course).
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I agree...you can't go wrong with any of those 4, but it boils down to why you are buying and what you're expecting.
If you want the sporty, harder ride...the Maxima gives you that. It's not a luxury ride, so the inside isn't going to be what you'll find in the Avalon or the Azera.
If you want luxury, but you don't want to spend a lot for it...the Azera is your choice. It doesn't have an overly soft ride, yet...you're not inclined to throw it into curves on a twisty road either. The fit and finish for the Azera belies it's value as you definitely get more for your money (materially).
If you want sound luxury, fuel economy and top notch technology with a proven reliability track record...the Avalon gives all of that to you. However, you do pay a little bit more for it.
Then...if the foreign entries aren't your cup of tea and you want to keep your money in domestic hands, the Lucerne and even the upgraded 500 are strong offerings too.
What's really sad, is...the Camry is not far off when it comes to the innner dimensions from the Avalon. THAT...really sucks.
That's what I faced when I bought my '02 Sonata. The XG at the time was practically identical in size (interior), but offered a few more amenities and about 20 more HP. If I was gonna spend that much more...the car should have offered more.
That being said, I'm starting to beleive that a fully loaded Camry is a better value than a fully loaded Avalon! :surprise: The Avalon has a few things that the Camry doesn't, only gains an inch or two here and there on the interior, almost equal trunk space and the Camry is a bit lighter which means a bit better FE. Yeah...the true value would be with the Camry. Avalon owners are beign cheated on this one! LMAO
2002 XG 350 3.5 liter 194@5500 and a torque rating of 216@3500.
2002 Sonata 2.7 liter 170 @6000 HP Torque: 181 @4000 ft-lbs
Performance specs from Edmunds Comparison tests:
XG 350 beat 2 out of 3 2002 competitors in the races. It beat the automatic Camry V6 and the manual transmission Passat GLX V-6. The then new 240 HP Altima 3.5 SE was the quickest with a 0-60 mph time of 7.4 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 15.5 seconds.
(In another 5 car comparison test, Sonata was a distant 5th place loser.)
XG 350
3.5 liters motor
194 HP at 5500 RPM
216 torque at 3500 RPM
7.7 seconds 0-60 MPH
15.9 seconds 1/4 mile
127 ft. 60-0 braking
60.6 mph slalom
18/26 city/hwy EPA MPG
Sonata
2.7 liters motor
170 HP at 6000 RPM
181 torque at 4000 RPM
9.1 seconds 0-60 MPH
16.8 seconds 1/4 mile
132 ft. 60-0 braking
60.0 mph slalom
19/27 city/hwy EPA MPG
XG 350 has 103 cubic feet for passengers, 15 for luggage.
Sonata has 100 cubic feet for passengers, 13 for luggage.
Also, I didn't buy for racing either.
And yes, the XG had a higher MSRP.
My point is they are not twins.
The XG has better performance and is bigger.
Guess you'll have to agree on those things.
Whether the benefits are worth your money? Of course that is your decision, I'm not arguing that.
Considering the XG had 22 more HP and weighed only slightly more than the Sonata, the performance SHOULD be better. Again, I didn't buy the car for performace.
However, the looks of the Sonata did more for me than the XG did. Just loved having a baby jag!
However...if you look at the '07 Avalon & Camry, outside of sheet metal, they are darn near twins!
So that's what I did, gave you numbers and other statistical data to compare. But the data shows they are not almost twins.
But yes, by all means, if you can't tell the difference between the '07 Camry and Avalon, buy the cheaper one (like you did with the Hyundais earlier).
Go ahead and take a look at the Camry and Avalon and tell if you don't see what I'm talking about though. Do you feel that there is $6K worth of difference between the two?
before you make a statement like that you really need to sit in the Avalon and then the Camry, especially the back seat which is really only rivaled by the back seat in the 500. Numbers can be misleading, the Avalon feels and indeed is much larger than even the Azera (which is no slouch in that dept) never mind the new Camry but only has one lousy cubic foot more of interior volume (than the Azera). It is not necessarily how much space there is but also how it is used.
Exactly my point between the XG and the Sonata. However...I don't ride in the back seat so my back seat feedback doesn't matter. My children do and with both of them being girls that may grow to be no more than 5'6" at the most...
You are quite correct in your assessment. One advantage the Avalon has over all is the reclining rear seat, that makes a huge difference in perceived rear room when one is back there.
The interior space is cavernous in my Azera compared to the Sonata I had. There was no way I was about drop $22K on the XG back in '02, but the Azera was well worth the $26K I paid for it.
Avalon and Camry? Neither one is worth my money I suspect. I favor the Azera and Sonata.
But if and when I'm in the market for that type of new car, I'll research and test all of them.
Currently, I'm loving my Azera and I'm itching to see the new Genesis.
Huh? How do you figure?
Passenger Volume 107 Azera, 107 Avalon, 101 Camry
Luggage....Volume.. 17 Azera,. 14 Avalon,.. 15 Camry
EPA figures for 2007 models. www.fueleconomy.gov
(Sonata is 105/16)
Actually...sitting in the rear of the Avalon with the seats up, the ceiling height was lower than in the Azera. With the seats reclined, it's not a big issue. However...you don't need to recline the seats in the Azera!
Technically (according to Edmunds) luggage capacity for the Avalon is 14.4, that's what happens when you want reclining rear seats!
Oh yeah, 4 adults sit very comfortably in the Azera as well.
For the record, I'll make three points:
I do not believe the Camry and Avalon are the same size.
I do not believe the Sonata and Azera are the same size.
I do not believe the Sonata is as comfortable as Azera.
What did the poster mean when he wrote, "...Avalon feels and indeed is much larger than even the Azera (which is no slouch in that dept) never mind the new Camry but only has one lousy cubic foot more of interior volume (than the Azera)."
I'm guessing he means Avalon feels bigger than Azera, Avalon is much larger in fact than Azera, Azera is no slouch in the size dept. Those seem pretty clear.
But when it comes to the Camry comment, does it mean Avalon is much larger than Camry? Or does it mean Camry is one cubic foot larger than Azera? Or does it mean Avalon is one cubic foot larger than Azera? Or does it mean Camry is no slouch in the size dept?
Hard to tell the way it is written.
If you are referring to allmet's post, he has already admitted he can't really notice/feel much difference between one car and another. That's his perception/opinion. Can't argue about those things, so I won't.
Measurements of legrooom, headroom, shoulder room and hiproom are measuremnts of usable space, if you have a normal human body with all of those bodyparts, e.g. I suppose if you have no head then headroom does not matter much, right?
I know you guys are going to hate me for bringing CR into this but their studies show Azera can run head-to-head with Avalon, with Azera winning in areas such as customer satisfactions, and predicted reliability, and Avalon winning in areas such as fuel efficiency and resale values, each other neck by neck in the large sedan class. This especially bodes well for the Azera, a first year and unknown model, especially something from Hyundai.
At the end of the day, there are no wrong choices. Personally I would take the Azera and the savings but that's just me
Who started this?
DrFill
Positioning the (Avalon's) front seat for our standard-seating mannequin (an average-dimension six-foot male), the rear seat affords our same mannequin 6.2 inches of knee room--yep, half a foot. That's 2.4 more than in the Azera, 3.2 more than in the Passat, and the sort of stretch space a pricey ticket buys you on Virgin Atlantic.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0603_fullsize_sedan_comparison/toy- ota_avalon_interior_engine.html
It would have been nice if Motor Trend compared all of the interior measurements side by side.
In my opinion, the real test will be when Toyota introduces it's 2nd. generation Avalon. How will Hyundai respond? They should have added a few more of the available features of the Korean model to the 07 US version.
- it confirms several things -
1) the Avalon is measurably quicker than the Azera and does get almost 4 mpg more while it does it.
2) the Avalon rear seat is (with apologies to the 500) the most spacious in its class, as you quoted
3) Interior volume measurements can be misleading
4)The Azera is 'softer' and does offer a 'better' ride than the sport tuned Avalon Touring. Don't think that would have been the same had they tested an XLS/Ltd., but, OTH, then the 'softer' Avalon would have been downgraded for being 'sloppier'.
5) this test really ended up in a 3 way tie, that close - the Azera being lauded for its value, the Passat (which I regard as a 'mid-size' car) for its sporting performance and power (neck and neck with the Av), the Avalon first as the best compromise.
It does confirm that, indeed, Hyundai has managed to design and build a car that is definitely competitive in this 'near-luxo' class. Best value? - probably - the jury's still out on long term resale values and/or reliability (although preliminary results on this last count are really good).
a new 07 Grand Marquis for $18.9xx plus tax and tag.
Not a bad deal for a REAL old school large sedan! :shades:
You should not place a high level of faith in dealership's newspaper ads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch
Even if someone else might drive the car, common sense would have the tallest passenger ride in the front passenger seat.
If you occasionally have several very tall passengers and one must ride in back and their head brushes the headliner for a 20 minute ride to eat dinner out, "oh well." They can deal with it.
It is an issue that probably won't ever come up in most people's lives.