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2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Two years from now, we will be sparring about the Genesis (or whatever it will be called) and the Lexus or Infinity. The people who buy BMW's and MB's will never look at anything else, even if Audi makes more sense.
Right now, Hyundai is hyping the Genesis to be it's competitor against the E-Class and 5-Series. That's a tall order to fill. However, that goal is attainable...especially based on what they've shown with the Azera.
People can say what they want about Hyundai vehicles, but until they've gotten in one and driven it...they won't truly understand. Anyone that stops me and asks me about my Azera, I tell them...don't go in there and test drive one unless you're ready to buy one. You will find it very hard to not want to get it when you see how well it's put together, how it feels sitting in it, how it drives and most of all...what you get for the money.
One thing I find funny...folks talk about how the Avalon is sportier in handling than the Azera (which is true), but I have NEVER seen anyone drive an Avalon in a sporty way! If we were in Europe, both cars would be considered touring sedans and both are QUITE capable in every sense of the term.
Would have a hard time believing that even Hyundai thinks that it can successfully target Lexus LSs/GSs, Infinity Ms etc. with the Genesis. Can imagine that Hyundai would like to be considered the 'luxury' Korean brand leaving Kia for the masses - but really, Lexus/Infiniti? GM is supposedly coming out with a whole new line of RWD V8s for 09 - maybe more likely Hyundai's target?
First 8 speeds and a car that can parallel park itself (given the right parameters) and now 438 HP packed into a hybrid model!!! Lexus (Toyota) is definitely showing what it means to push the envelope!!!
If Hyundai falls a bit short of it's target for the Genesis, I think they'll still hit a bullseye because it is an offering that will give what it seems most of the Americans want...size, power, appeal and technology. If it has decent FE, then the fact that it will be offered at the mid $30K range will make it hard to ignore.
At 300+ HP, the closest competetior for that, price-wise would be a Hemi powered Charger, 300 or Magnum (excluding the SRT-8). I mean...anything made by Lexus, Benz, BMW or Infinity will cost you a minimum of the mid $40K range just to get that kind of HP & size.
I know Pontiac is dropping the G8 which in GT badging will possess a 362 HP V-8 and will be priced between the mid $30K's to maybe $40K. It too offers the power, size and appeal, but...will it have everything else it needs. I certainly hoped they learned from their failed GTO.
But, like those that will not go after a Korean car, I think there are still a number of people that will not look outside Germany for a sport/luxury sedan, just based on history and brand cache. Unfortunately, we don't have Autobahns in the US. so sustained 155+mph driving is not a very real possibility. But traveling in a VERY capable lux vehicle is an everyday yearning. I think the coming Hyundai will offer a very tempting package for well under $40K out the door. And, I am willing to wait and see what the US can offer with the various zeta platform vehicles. Two years is an eternity in technology.
I am not pro Hyundai or pro Korean. I am for the best deal on the best car I can afford, regardless of country or brand. If it is a US make or MADE (including just put together) so much the better. The better our economy the happier I am. PS, if the car I picked happened to be a hybrid or save me a few bucks and help the environment, even better.
The U.S. can still crank out power and has been able to with engines like the Hemi. However, the foreign makers are better at producing engines that offer power along with good FE (especially Toyota/Lexus & Honda/Acura).
Same goes for the Infinity M's...power-wise it's up there with them, but will sell for less than the G.
Hyundai hit a huge mark with what they did in the Azera. The way they were able to make a value based sedan look, feel and act like it's worth way more than it really is. I really do believe that Hyundai can pull it off.
Good technique, no doubt about it.
The Genesis is beautiful. I just saw the MT spread on it with pictures and a friend had sent pictures yesterday. Really nice shaping without the slant-eye look on headlights and taillights.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Most Hyundai buyers are unwilling to pay for too much research and design. We want a good reliable ride for not too many bucks.
I don't think budget is one of the main concerns for LS owners...
Hyundai as well as the US mfgrs. would do well not to attack HP deficiencies with displacement and extra cylinders or even air pumps but a little more sophistication than what you have in not only Hyundai's 3.3/3.8 but also GMs 3.6, Chryslers 3.5 and Fords 3.5. I would expect a technologically defining V6 (something that even surpasses the Toyota 2GR)to be coming from Honda soon. Now that would be a company that KNOWS how to build smaller engines....
And, actually, they drive fairly well if you get the handling package.
As for the poor FE in Chrysler's MDS V-8s, it could be partly due to limited experience by the people driving them. With GM's similar DOD system, once I learned how keep it engaged, my fuel economy improved. Also, you have to keep in mind that the EPA numbers are based on speeds much lower than the average person drives. At 55-60 mph, I can achieve the EPA average in my V-8 powered Impala. Above 70 mph, it's less likely that the DOD system will be engaged so FE drops off. I expect the same is true in the Chrysler products.
So, do the import V-6s have a FE advantage? Sure. But would I prefer driving one of them over my silky smooth and sexy sounding V-8? No way. To each his own and I'm glad I have the choice. For those of you that prefer the the import V-6s, good for you. But, you should really consider restraining yourselves when it comes to passing judgment on those of us who prefer something different just because it doesn't match up to what you believe is the best choice.
Variety is the spice of life. If everything was the same, we wouldn't have the ability to appreciate the differences. If we weren't driving our "inferior" cars you wouldn't feel so superior with yours now, would ya?
based on a limited test drive, I found it impossible to keep a 300C at a constant 65-70 mph on a FLAT road on 4 cylinders. The DOD engagement/disengagement is granted almost invisible, which is good, but I think the problem really is that what amounts to 170hp and 195 lb/ft is not nearly enough for a 4000 lb car even to maintain a reasonable highway speed. Same sort of problem with the 3.8 Lucerne, not so much on the flat but certainly on even gentle inclines. If you are telling me that you have to 'learn' to drive your car like a fuel economy competition (staying off the accelerator to intentionally keep load off the engine) - then I tell you keep your V8s and this gimmicky DOD (which has a checkered past anyway)- or I could simply drive one of these higher tech V6s normally and still get superior FE.
If they were to do that, CU would then rate Chrysler as the lowest in reliability and you would be on here telling everyone how terribly built the car was. Of course, it would only serve Chrysler right since it's their fault that MB can't build cars right anymore.
Where do you get this information?
I have the 06 Charger sales brochure and in the specifications section there is a graph that shows HP/Torque for the Hemi.
At 65-70 mph you would around 2000 rpms and the graph shows
140HP/340 lb/ft of torque at that speed.
At 1200 rpm the Hemi has 300 lb/ft.
Not bad, don't you think?
Why would they? It costs more than the DC 3.5L and the numbers aren't that much better.
The DC 3.5L has 250 HP/250 lb/ft and thats with mid-grade.
Engine 3,498-cc DOHC 24-valve V-6. High-pressure die-cast alloy cylinder block.
Net power 268 hp @ 6,000 rpmNet torque 258 lb-ft @ 2,400 - 5,000 rpmCompression ratio 10.7:1Fuel requirement Premium unleaded gasoline, 91 pump octane.
It was either really fast where it pins you back or too little.
That said that all-on is something isn't it?
I also suspect the slowing of Azera sales might be due to the tire problems and the right front end "clunk" problem that they are failing to acknowledge and address. Many people looking at cars in this class are used to better service and customer relations. Hyundai does not seem to be interested in either.
despite these problems I am still a happy Azera owner... but I am tempted to remove all Hyundai logos from the car!
Brian
I am not sure if the DOD is causing the sluggishness when accelerating. If you have it in autostick DOD disengages.
The electronic throttle response is probably causing this all-on or all-off behaviour.
Sonata sales, from what I understand have also slowed largely becuase fleet sales are down, but it would make no sense for the dealers push the buyer into a Sonata, the Azera should be a higher profit sale.
Was not aware of the Azera 'quality' issues that you mention as this has yet to be reflected in any reliability ratings that I know of - but it is a new design and those things are more likely to happen. Even my 05 Avalon started with some 'un-Toyota-like' teething problems (steering column 'clunk' and an oil leak at the timing chain cover), which were corrected by the 2nd year. Of more concern (if I owned the Azera) , the continued discounting of a car that shouldn't need to be - over a normal 3 to 5 year period of ownership such things can negate the competitive price advantage the Azera obviously has.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve