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I will keep my fingers crossed and hope I don't have your experience. My 92 Bonneville SSEi was a damn fine car. I drove the hell out of that car and it gave me only one problem which was the computer took a poop on me. Luckily it was covered under my extended warranty.
My Grandma, had a 95' Buick Riveria, and it was trouble free. My unles, aunts have all owned 3800's and have all had no problems. So yeah I have a high opinion of one of the 20th century's greatest engine.
Rocky
P.S. I've never had any problems with GM transmissions either.
I have heard many transmission problems with Accords and Camry's on this site. So I guess most cars have some sort of a problem. So it seems. Just be thankful you don't own a camry with the engine sludge issue. :surprise:
Rocky
Just keep an eye on the coolant level in the reservoir.
Mine kept going down an inch a week. The 3.8L had a recall where GM instructed the dealers to insert crushed walnut shells to block small leaks. Knowing GM I doubt the design changed at all until they switched to 3800 series III.
The series III has an aluminum intake manifold instead of the plastic one used in series II.
I hope my good luck doesn't run out with this one.
Rocky
Didn't know that she owned a GM W body.
Rocky
More of that negative GM stuff that people just won't let go.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
frankly didn't know that GM had screwed up the LaCrosse as well by putting that V8 in it - can you say 'torque steer', a problem at the gas pumps, and even more weight imbalance. A real shame because the engine of choice in that car really should be the new 3.6. Leave it to GM to put V8s where they don't belong, just as the Lucerne ought to have the same engine, in lieu of the Northstar. V8s don't belong in FWD cars.
The 3.8 may indeed one of 'the' best' engines of the last century, if only because they made so many of them, and they don't blow up as you use it as your cocktail shaker
Thanks!
[OVERBURDEN... CORE CONTAINMENT... MELTDOWN IMMINENT!!! MELTDOooooo POP!]... :shades:
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Don't get it twisted, I am well aware that the Azera is not the car you want to cut loose with on twists and curves of a mountain road. However, on a nice cruise down the highway...I'll take it!
I've been talking about acceleration, not handling. In a comparison to a Maxima...I do believe that the Azera will hang with it on a nice stretch of highway. Now you want to start talking corners, turns and curves...oh, the Maxima will leave the Azera behind. Trust and believe, I'm a realist and would not believe that the Azera is anything more than a highway cruiser.
However, it's hard to know for sure until they drop definitive HP numbers, but Hyundai is saying well over 300 hp and the G is JUST over 300 hp.
Size-wise as well...the G specs out much closer to the Azera on interior space. The Genesis is supposed to bigger than the Azera.
Sorry...as much as folks want to knock the upcoming Genesis...it's hard to do so until numbers are concrete. Based on what has been printed on it thus far, it seems to be comparable to the 5-Series and E-Class, which also means it would compare more with the M and quite possibly the GS sedans as well.
I guess those same folks will really be burned by the Azera/Lexus LS commercial then, huh? LOL
The top end Lucerne for instance... yes, the 3800 model is a bloated toad. But the CXS(or upcoming super)... They really should make it a different name/model it's so drastically imporved.
The Magnetic Ride suspension is fully 3/4 of the difference right there. Torque-steer is *gone*. No, really - I was wanting to hate it. My dad and mom have a LeSabre and a Park Ave Ultra and so I know the 3800/Buick feel.(blech) The CXS... no torque steer. no wide-open-throttle lag(tm). It moved exactly like a Mercedes S420 used to. Solid, stable, and great in traffic. 0-60? With only three gears in town(overdrive really is for highway speeds), it has loads of power and a sense of immediancy that the 6 cylinder cars lack. 10-30, 20-40, and simmilar transitions didn't require a downshift - just more gas and presto. Yes, it's not as "fast", but it drives like the best VVT 6 you've ever driven. They set it up for torque and smoothness instead of winning some drag race.
Hint - the bigger your engine, the fewer gears you need if it's set up right. Now, something like a 2.0L engine in a F1 racecar... needs a boatload of gears. A 5-8L V8? Three plus overdrive is just about right. The Camry/etc - they have a V6 with 5 or 6 gears? Considering that the engine develops maximum HP at close to 5000rpm, more gears robs power like crazy. (most 0-60 times are done manually shifting the automatic and leaving it in 2nd gear until it hits 60mph) Not typical driving by any means.
This was the first Buick since the Grand National that I had test-driven that you could take a typical city corner at 30mph and the thing didn't lean or wobble. My brain literally had a moment of disconnect because the idea of this car and "Buick" suddenly didn't fit together anymore.
It's also why I'm looking forward to the new CTS. GM has gotten agressive finally - FINALLY - and started to go after Mercedes and BMW and the rest.
P.S. The 3800 is a great engine. It's really hard to actually kill one(barring the coolant fiasco. - the car runs fine on the old green antifreeze, GM!)
The transmission, yes, it's not any more reliable than the others. But I can get that 4 speed in a Lucerne or LaCrosse rebuilt for $1200-$1600 all over town.
What's really sad is that it takes the Lucerne with the Northstar to compete with the any of the V-6's from Toyota, Nissan, Honda or Hyundai. Same with the Chevy Impala SS...you drop down LTZ and you only get 233 hp with the V-6.
That being the case, your list would look more like...
1)Avalon
2)Maxima
3)Azera
4)300/Charger
5)Impala
6)Lucerne (LOL) Gotta laugh since it isn't even pushing out 200hp!!! :P
Tell that to Lexus...the bigger their engines, the more gears they see fit to throw in the tranny!!! Look at the LS with the first ever 8-speed automatic!!!
Only problem with a 4 speed tranny...they cause a car to run so loudly!!!
IMO, you should have a vehicle tuned so that it is running at 60% of redline in normal driving. But that means shorter gears or a lot of torque to compensate. The power at silly rpms and tall gearing makes for lovely 0-60 tests and EPA ratings, but there is no soul to it, either. Most of those vehicles(especially the import 6s) have as much personality as a typical subway train. Yes, it goes 0-60 quickly but that's where it ends.
Take the new Honda Fit. People complain that it runs about 3000rpm at 60mph.(stickshift) - Well, that's exactly where you want it in case you have to pass. Instead of downshifting, you just hit the gas and go. Well worth 1-2mpg IMO.
P.S. yes, 8 speeds is a nightmare. what's that - between 1500 and 2000rpm all the way up to 100mph?(with a ~5600 redline, no less)
I am no environmentalist but if every car on the road gave up 1 - 2 MPG just to not downshift to pass how much more oil would we use, and what would start happening to the price of gas then?
As for the "no soul" comment. My Avalon has plenty of "soul" at any RPM even more so at anything above 4000. While still getting great MPG and being smooth as silk.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Compare the Avalon in typical driving to an Accord with the 4 cylinder engine and a manual transmission. I know which one is more fun to drive and responds better. Or shoot, get a RX-8 out for a test drive. Wind it up mercelessly to 6-8K rpm and enjoy the experience.
Honestly, the Avalon reminds me a lot of a Towncar. Big, powerful highway cruiser meant for the average person out in Missouri or Kansas. Not a city or mountain road vehicle.
Oh...now I see, proving a point that the domestic cars NEED a V-8 to run with the foreign V-6's.
To be honest...how many folks on there really are concerned with a 0-60 time? I mean...I don't think any of us have a need to get to 60 that quickly in any event. Yes, it's nice to know that you have power when needed, but unless you're racing the car...does it really mean much?
7 second 0-6's really aren't slow when you consider that the FASTEST exotic super car can do 0-60 in 3 seconds flat. We're talking an ultra light car with over 800 hp. So...for a 3000+ lb. car taking only 7 seconds to get to 60 with less than 300 hp, that's really GREAT!!!
I drove a Grand Prix GXP with that engine, and honestly it has less torque steer than my Maxima. The gas mileage isn't bad either, since it has the cylinder deactivation that a lot of newer engines have. The car is also a lot of fun to drive.
I don't think I would buy one, simply because the W body is an outdated platform. Those cars have VERY poor space utilization; not Panther (Crown Vic) bad, but still not good.
I am eagerly awaiting the G8.
Big, heavy, and yes, it does spin up very slowly because you have to practically floor it to get the transmission to not upshift the millisecond it gets over 2500rpm(stupid "intelligent" transmission). It's a fine car, mind you - my uncle has one and I've driven it as well as new ones at the dealership on test drives.
If you like that thing, I guess you're entitled to it. Me? I'll take small and light anyday.
Probably a lot more than you think. 0-60 et's are a performance benchmark and product feature. The auto manufactures / publications and trickle down to the consumer concern themselves with it.
This has been the case the last 5 years.
The GM 3.8L supercharged (240HP/280lbs/ft)was blowing away the competition until Nissan came out with the 240HP 3.5L.
The big 3 could have competed in the V6 segment if it weren't for the pension/health care costs.
Imagine if Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Hyundai created an SS, C, R/T or Super version of any of their cars...the Domestic big 3 would be in huge trouble! LOL
So whether your car can do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and mine does it in 6.4 seconds...ultimately does it affect how much faster you get somewhere?
Unless it's a performance machine that will be used to perform...it's truly a meaningless number that exists for bragging rights I guess.
will contend that acceleration times whether they be 0-60, or 50-70 utltimately have a lot to do with vehicle safety - the capability the car has to turn onto a fast moving street from a stop, or passing that truck on a 2 lane highway comfortably with room to spare. Granted the effective difference between 5 something and 6 something is minor and likely not something used in either vehicle on a regular basis - but all else equal, the more powerful car will, within some reasonable limits, be the safer car - all else being equal.
down here in Texas, we have things called feeder roads (generally 2 or 3 lanes themselves) along side our freeways, which are lined with businesses and direct access side streets. The problem is that while the freeways generally move at 70-75, the heavy traffic on these feeder roads usually move even faster than that, making it very difficult to safely get up to speed in front of (or into) the oncoming traffic. 0-60 becomes quite important - as does the difficulties created when you try to do something like this in a car with significantly less power. When I test drove the 500, thought I was 'dead' in trying to get the thing up to speed in exactly this situation. Certainly my own fault for anticipating & expecting more power than what is really there, but at the time dissuaded me from considering that particular vehicle any further.
exactly, but you left out a whole lot more fuel as well
well yes it does and no it doesn't - the 'trick' that Pontiac used to 'hide' it - smaller tries and wheels on the front than on the rear. Think about that for a moment just in terms of tire wear because no longer can you rotate front to rear. The essentially identical Impala is a torque steering monster but, then again, all the tires are the same size. Torque steer has always been a trademark and a problem (there are folks that actually like it) for Nissans ever since the late 80s Maximas, the new CVT model FWIU uses that computer controlled tranny and electronic throttle to make it all almost dissappear as well. DOD systems, BTW, offer very little improvement in FE, those cars so equipped noted to have the most outrageously optimistic EPA ratings. Fun to drive (at least in a straight line), sure, 300 hp will do that...
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
You are not right this time. Actually wide tires are used at the front.
Tires, P255/45R18 front, P225/50R18, rear
Why would they use smaller tires at the front? It's not RWD remember.
A reporter is hoping to talk with Buick Lucerne owners who are long-time Buick loyalists. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, May 10, 2007 with your daytime contact info and a few words about your experience.
It's funny, but when I was driving my grossly underpowered '87 Excel, I NEVER had a problem with merging into highway traffic. It's a matter of knowing your vehicle and doing so at a moment that provides you with a safe merge.
The problem is too many folks want to use that hp to stick themselves into traffic regardless of whether traffic affords the opportunity or not. I see folks driving Accents, Corollas, Sentras, Versas, all those sub-compact cars with tiny little 4 bangers that can merge into traffic with no problems.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9964/pontiac-grand-prix-gxp.html
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The Avalon, Azera, Maxima (as well as those Detroit V8s) will all figure at about 13 lbs/HP (or better) and therefore have similarily quick accelerative capabilities. It is those Lucerne 3.8s and 500s that have to pull 18-19 lbs or so, that don't accelerate nearly as well. Your point about adjusting to what you got is right on, it wasn't until recently that cars like these (6 sec+) even existed. Sometimes I wonder how we made it thru the 80s and 90s with the selection of relative 'dogs' available to us? Suggest to you that had Hyundai decided to put that older 194hp 3.5 in the Azera or Toyota had stuck with the 200hp 3.0, we would have the same 'problem' as the Lucerne and 500.