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The Azera has aced this type of thing ever since it first came out and now all of a sudden is gone; the Avalon while it does wells both long and short term has never appeared in this list TMK; the Montego/500 you can understand based on slow sales and older drivetrains; but the Grand Prix?
You may have something here Joe. Sorta like the CEO interviewing a candidate for CFO. CEO..."so, how much is 2 + 2"? CFO candiate "depends on what you want it to be"
We will usually defend the items that we have purchased.
I spit in their general direction. :P
In reference to reliability if you take care and don't abuse your vehicle any vehicle will last a long time. Reliability in my opinion depends on person driving it.
It's not the only factor, but it is an important one, IMO, and it's one that CR doesn't even try to account for . . not sure how they could, really.
If the Azera is classified as a large car, certainly the Genesis should carry the same classification.
Can you post a link to it?
He has said the exterior dimensions are a couple inches longer than the Azera, maybe just as wide. At the least, I would expect the interior space to be very, very close to what the Azera has. Heck, the Sonata is knocking on the door of the large sedan category to be honest.
Azera Specs
Genesis Specs
Azera / Genesis
Wheelbase - 109.4" / 115.6"
Length - 192.7" / 197.0"
Width - 72.8" / 73.3"
Height - 58.7" / 58.7"
The numbers on the Genesis are VERY close to the numbers on the BMW 7 Series.
7-Series Specs
I never said it will, or will not. The judgment should be reserved until at least the car is released. Everything I said were true (starting at sub-30K, rival 7er in size, and compete with luxury midsize vehicles). You're reading (way) too much into what I said. Thanks for the lecture, though.
BTW Rolex and Rolexx are not the same watch. It looks like you are getting a deal, but in reality you will miss in details.
Glad to hear you are writing off the car already before it even appears on the market. Bottom line, I am not going to speculate anything until I have had a chance to drive the car at least. Again, no one is saying a Hyundai is a BMW so please save the Rolex comparison. Everything I said was true, including the trifecta quote, which was just a light-hearted comment. You're making this something out of nothing...
Anyway, my first impression of the BH, upclose and in person - nothing short of fantastic!! Look forward to seeing this car.
PS: Rolex doesn't do a thing for me. Seikos are better IMHO
I agree with joe97, priced below a 3-series to compete with the 5-series with the near size of the 7-series. A good way to market Genesis, and Hyundai can pull it off in terms of building, pricing and launching. Trouble is, if Hyundai doesn't do something quick about their lousey dealer / service department network, Genesis is doomed.
Stick with your dealership. All of the ones I have seen are nasty and under staffed. The service writers are nice but not at all knowledgeable about the cars.
Is this any different than the American or Japanese auto makers? There are many 40K + vehicles that have their roots in 20K entry level vehicles.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Now this is the response i received in the past - Azera has 10/100 warranty ( not fully transferable), more interior space ( how much of it is useful?)and cheap ( well this is the only thing I won't argue with)
Yes. Enquiring minds want to know here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Think of Hyundai like the old tampon commercials back in the day. Everybody knew about them, but...you only saw them once every blue moon. After a while...those commercials started playing every day, even during prime time hours.
"But in no way this car will match BMW in performance and balance." How can you make a statement about a car that's not even here yet? Nobody at this point knows what this new BH will be capable of. IF (and that's a big IF), Hyundai is aiming this car directly at BMW and Mercedes...then they have their hands full and I hope they realize what they will need to do. As a consumer, I would hope that you're open minded enough to know how to recognize just how the BH would compare to the 5-Series or E-Class sedans.
No...the Genesis is not and will not be a BMW or a Mercedes, BUT...it will offer those consumers that want one a viable option. THAT...my friend is what this is all about. In other words...leveling the playing field. I'm sure as Hyundai brings along their technology, the efficiency thing will get better than it already is.
Okay, okay...that was off topic. Yeah, I'm with you...I can't wait to see the Genesis up close and personal. I just hope it doesn't end up like the Washington Redskins for the past decade...looking good on paper and being a dud!!!
Interestingly, most of their products are imported from Deutchland (altho' some BMW's are assembled in NA).
Now why, when these brands are offered at generally more affordable prices in Europe, are they so expensive in NA?
The answer, simply put, is--"markup" (aka "pure profit).
How, you ask, does this happen?
That answer is essentially one word--"marketing."
We North Americans are so influenced by "status" that we are willing to accept, and pay outragious prices and obscene markups for basically ordinary vehicles by any standards, because they're perceived as "prestigious" and "superior".
I'm not saying they aren't good automobiles--it's just that we can get basically the same thing for a lot less cash--but-- it won't provide that so essential "snob' effect we North Americans are addicted to.
These so called "prestige" cars (along with a few Asian and North american counterparts), are the real moneymakers for the car companies.
As you noted--"There's a sucker born every day!!"
It's a great option for those who are tolerant and like me, have time on their hands.
You probably bought your Maxima as a dealer demo with some miles on it, so he gave you a good deal. There is NO way...EVER...that a fully loaded Maxima will ever sell for less than a fully loaded Azera straight up.
this car was new and not a dealer demo.
Azera's road test from C/D:
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/11168/short-take-review-2006-hyundai-azera-se-2006-hyundai-azera-se-specs-page2.html
Edmunds - Editors' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2007
Sedan Under $30,000
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2007/117174/article.html
You know...you are probably right, you probably DID pay less for your Max than some might pay for an Azera, but you're Max is not the top of the line model, fully loaded. A fully loaded, top of the line Max would and will NOT sell for less than a fully loaded Azera Limited in a straight up sale.
You keep thinking your Max will blow away and Azera, I wish I could be there to take your picture when you see you can't. How would you like your humble pie served, hot or cold? Plain or a la mode?
There is obviously a whole lot more gross dollar profit made by all the mfgrs. of 'prestige' vehicles. By your comments I guess a buyer of a Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura must, therefore, are all suckers?
Laura Lehan, lawyer for Lawrence Pargo, the man accused of driving a Hyundai Sonata 147 mph on Loop 101 on May 21, entered a not guilty plea Monday on Pargo’s behalf in Scottsdale City Court.
Pargo, 26, of Goodyear was arrested May 26 by Scottsdale police on suspicion of excessive speeding, recklessness and endangerment.
Pargo did not appear in court.
A pretrial conference date for Pargo has not yet been scheduled, said Caron Close, Scottsdale city prosecutor. Neither Pargo nor Lehan returned phone calls seeking comment.
Pargo, who was leasing or renting a 2006 Hyundai Sonata, was photographed by the photo enforcement cameras traveling 147 mph, 128 mph, 105 mph and 102 mph on four sections of the freeway, according to police.
Some automotive experts, including certified Hyundai technicians, have questioned whether the Sonata could reach 147 mph, saying federally mandated speed limiters would have kept the car to no higher than 135 to 137 mph.
A leading auto magazine, Car and Driver, also reported the top speed for the Sonata was 137 mph.
However, Scottsdale police employees overseeing the speed camera pilot program and Redflex Traffic Systems Inc. — the city’s vendor for the speed sensors and cameras — said the equipment is accurate.
If convicted of excessive speeding and the other offenses, Pargo would have to pay $201 for each speeding ticket and could be sentenced to jail, according to a clerk of the Scottsdale City Court.
In January, Scottsdale launched the speed enforcement program, placing cameras on an eight-mile stretch of Loop 101 between Scottsdale Road and Shea Boulevard."
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Well, first of all I don't think any of those cars are worth the current pricing. Look at what the LS400 series sold for when it first came to the U.S. It was close to the price of a TownCar. I don't think the first Lexus were stripped down cheap cars either...but they were pretty cheaply priced. Now that it has the cache of the German makes, the prices have jumped disproportionally. It's certainly not because the car is that much better today than it was.
One thing that has allowed car makers to charge more is leasing. Betcha prices would drop quite a bit if people had to buy on a 24 month payment plan with a large downpayment. And that goes across the board. Not only wouldn't you sell very many Caddy/Lincoln/Mercs/Lexus at their current prices. But you'd have a hard time selling a Taurus for $20K too.
Yes, the suspension is quite soft for those speeds, so I made sure it wasn't on a road that was curvy or had traffic on it either that I would have to avoid. I also backed off as soon as I reached that speed, so I didn't maintain it either.
To be honest, with the tire change I've done, I think my speedo is actually more accurate than it was with the factory tires. I know that sounds crazy, but checking my speed using a sat based nav unit, it clocked me accurately at speeds of 80 up to 90 mph.
At any rate, the Azera can attain those speeds with little or no trouble at all. For those that doubt...you're in for a rude awakening.