Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

alexstore · July 2007

so you are saying that Azera can be compared to a luxury car. its missing a lot of even basic components of a luxo sedan for ex reclining rear seats, Navigation( that is available now on many entry level cars)

allmet33 · July 2007

Alexstore...once again, you really need to think about things before you post them. Reclining rear seats and navigation does not equate to luxury. The Hyundai Tucson has reclining rear seats and it is not a luxutry SUV. Toyota Prius has navigation and it's not a luxury sedan.

Luxury is determined by appointments, feel and quality of craftmanship. The leather in the Azera feels very, very nice for a car that costs less than $30K. The seats are rather cushy (some like and some don't). Details such as the stitching on the seats, the way the wood grain doesn't overwhelm the cabin. Rear power sun shade to keep the sun off rear riding passengers that you find in cars costing well above $30K.

dborth · July 2007

Re 2698: "its missing a lot of even basic components of a luxo sedan for ex reclining rear seats, Navigation( that is available now on many entry level cars)"

I agree with you on this. Azera has some, not all, but does a good job of what features it does offer, value. The only true comparison between an Azera and a LS460 is that they are both "large sedans".

Luxo. sedans don't have design flaws either, such as a passenger windshield wiper that can't be lifted without chipping the hood paint.

allmet33 · July 2007

There's a $40K+ price difference. Considering that point, the Azera does a pretty good job of being an entry level luxury car.

There is one design flaw on the LS460, it may be able to parallel park itself, but certain variables must exist for it to happen. It can't parallel park itself in every situation. However, that's not even luxury, that's just technogadgetry.

A windshield wiper that wasn't thought out fully really doesn't affect driver or passenger comfort. Yes, it's a design flaw and a rather minor one at that. I would say point out the front end suspension clunk that plagued the earlier model Azeras, but...that seems to have been taken care of.

alexstore · July 2007

Maxima and Avalon are both listed under entry luxury and still Huyndai did not compare itself to them

allmet33 · July 2007

Where do you see Maxima and Avalon listed under entry level luxury? There is nothing luxury about the Maxima, it's a "sport" seden...always has been. It's hard for Toyota to claim a luxury car because of it's Lexus line-up. However, like I said before...the Avalon would rightfully belong in that category.

Again I say, the commercial wasn't to compare directly to the LS460, just show that there is a viable option out there for those of us that can't afford the likes of the LS460 or the GS line for that matter.

For the sake of an argument, why compare the obvious?

A truly sensless commercial is the one with the Lexus (I believe) driving around making sharp starts, stops and turns with a ball bearing rolling all over the place and not coming off. A real world driver has no need to push a vehicle in that manner, so what's the point of showing it can be done?

dborth · July 2007

That is because when you add everything up, the other two did better.

allmet33 · July 2007

The other two did better in what way?

alexstore · July 2007

According to IIHS Azera owner should watch their right foot as in an offset collision it only gets marginal ratings. Now another site ( I should not advertize here) is placing Avalon, Maxima and Azera in near luxury ratings.

scbob · July 2007

Having researched and test drove Lexus, Infiniti and Acura, among others for over six months, I still came back to the Azera every time. Cost had no influence on my decision. It was the car and what it offered. What the others offered that Azera did not, I did not want anyway. What I did want, the others did not offer-safer, better luxury options, better reliability, better warranty, better styling, more comfort, etc

.
Also, the others, including the LS are smaller cars inside.

smithed · July 2007

The cars that Edmunds thinks we should be discussing here are listed above. Are there others that should be included here?

Is the decision to group cars based on price alone or perceived prestige or something else? :shades:

txbricklayer · July 2007

Just to spoil the discussions----took my Lucerne in today to correct a slight 'bump' in the steering which could be felt in low speed turns. Replaced the steering shaft under warranty. Was told that safety was not involved.

The car was delivered at Thanksgiving last year and has 1800 miles on it. (CXL)

A friend who owns a Lucerne had to have the same thing repaired.

allmet33 · July 2007

Again I say, and YOU should know this as a Maxima owner...the Maxima...is not a near luxury car, it's a sports sedan, nothing more.

The Maxima can't even be hyped anymore at this point, it's getting beat up by it's little brother (Altima). The only thing holding the Altima back is it's size!

gamleged · July 2007

"Folks really stop needing to be so literal when they watch those commercials.

"

I'm afraid that some will always look at the Azera as aspiring to "nuevo riche," not to be permitted entry into the automotive country club... :shades:

Hey, at least the valet (who I can now afford to pay) seems impressed... :P

allmet33 · July 2007

They are simply in denial. Anyone that actually gets in one and drives it...find it hard to deny the Azera for what it actually is.

Unfortunately...since they won't simply let it in, the Azera is going to have to kick the door down on it's own! LOL

alexstore · July 2007

As Azera Lovers say " get your numbers straight link title

now in reference to safety lexus beats Azera in IIHS rating

allmet33 · July 2007

Alexstore, are you tripping...STILL???

Maybe you need a new prescription???

I hate to break it to you, but there are numbers in the Azera column that are larger than the ones in the LS460 column. :surprise:

The Avalon has a few numbers that are larger and a few that are smaller, so we have to call that one a draw between the Azera and the Avalon.

The Maxima only has one number that's a hair larger and their equal on one as well...advantage, Azera!

vic10 · July 2007

Obviously there are two types here: Lovers and non lovers of the Azera. Hyundai's latest commercial would appear to both. The "duh" commercial. Their take is "duh" means it's so obvious. My take is the "duh" is the one you'd hear from a two-digit IQ-er.

captain2 · July 2007

Cost had no influence on my decision.
you'll have a hard time getting me to bite on this one and I believe yu will find that the new LS is significantly larger than either the Azera (or Avalon FTM) not to mention about double the price which I am supposed to believe 'had no influence'?

allmet33 · July 2007

Well...Alexstore provided the link that showed the numbers. The LS is significantly bigger on the exterior, but when it comes to the interior, the only place it's significantly bigger is in the trunk.

dborth · July 2007

re 2717: allmet33, you need to take a deep breath. Taking exception to everything posted here can be bad for you blood pressure. Everything has a positive or a negative spin, it depends on the individual.

captain2 · July 2007

the packaging benefits of FWD vs. RWD - granted the interior volume is close, the Avalon is even slightly bigger than the Azera, but the LS is still a much larger car than either of them.

scbob · July 2007

ME!. The Toyota/lexus lines actually offer less, is smaller and offers fewer safety features. While it does offer Nav, I could care less. I really did look seriously at the Lexus ES 350, but just did not like it as well and the dealer could care less about customer service. The $10,000 price savings did not figure into my final decision.
As for the Infiniti, the interior is way small and the Big Dial just duplicates what the buttons on either side do.
I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs and I found the Infiniti, Avalon and Lexus small.
Did check out the GS and LS, but they seem to be getting smaller, more reliability issues and the metal is thiner.

louiswei · July 2007

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs and I found the Infiniti, Avalon and Lexus small.

Did check out the GS and LS, but they seem to be getting smaller, more reliability issues and the metal is thiner.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Metal is thiner? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ROTFLOLx1000!!!

Note to myself: From now on I'll just take scbob's post as "joke of the day"...

scbob · July 2007

Appears that way to me, but I never thought of it until I read it in reviews of Toyota Corp. cars. Was referred to as their "minimilization" process.
While the previous versions of the GS and LS were larger inside, the new ones are not.

Also, have no idea what all the letters mean. Say what you mean, please. Maybe I should keep my opinions to myself, rather than sharing them.

tjc78 · July 2007

"I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs and I found the Infiniti, Avalon and Lexus small"

I am 6' 290 (pure muscle

) and feel extremely comfortable in my '06 Avalon. Honestly out of all things ever said about the Avalon I have never heard complaints of a small interior. Actually, I would think that the Av may have one of the largest interiors in a 4 door sedan except for (maybe) the Ford 500/Taurus.

P.S. Louiswei's acronym: ROTFLOLx1000!!! = rolling on the floor laughing out loud times 1000!!!.

allmet33 · July 2007

Dborth, actually...I'm fine. I just find it so funny that folks are quick to discount the Azera in any way, shape or form that they can...and almost every single time, they fall short in doing so.

You're right, there is a positive and a negative spin that can be placed on all that's seen...depending on the individual. My problem is when someone uses factual information to prove something, and prove nothing at all.

I also can't stand it when someone quotes something found in a single publication and tries to use that as the statement that IS. Alexstore has this thing about Maximas and he truly wants it to be something it's not. The Maxima was and is NOT a luxury vehicle. I have read a lot of things about the Maxima over the years and the only one I can think of that would have come close to luxury for its time would be the Maxima of the mid-late 80's (you know, the square body style). I had a buddy that owned one and back then, when it came out...it was the closest thing to entry level luxury that you could get. Since then, the Maxima has evolved into a sports sedan and that's what it remains to this day.

You want examples of luxury sport sedans? BMW, Infinti, Lexus, MB, Cadillac...

Okay..NOW I can take my deep breath!

tjc78 · July 2007

The problem is and will continue to be is that Hyundai (as a company) is still thought by many as "junk" Think of how long it took Toyota and Honda to become what they are today. I am not saying they don't build a quality car, I am just stating what I hear when I talk to people. Case in point, when I was shopping for my Avalon I mentioned to several people I looked at the new Hyundai. What? they questioned... the Azera. Oh, how much is that? Around 31K loaded. Then a long pause. 31K for a Hyundai? Are you kidding? Image is everything, and Hyundai still has a long way to go.

jlindh · July 2007

Can't believe you actually said "Image is everything".

allmet33 · July 2007

You are right in what you're saying, however...those very same people are making the judgement based on what they knew from before. They aren't taking a look at what's going on today. It's refreshing to hear someone else mention the tribulations that Honda and Toyota went through when they first started out. It seems that folks have forgetten that, which is a good thing...that means the same can happen for Hyundai.

$31 for a loaded Azera??? Where were you shopping? You can get the Limited with the Ultimate package for around $27K.

jaymagic · July 2007

Good point. Hyundai is still generally perceived by the public as a player in the low end of the market. Now, those that have Azera's, and probably most that have sampled it, seem to concede that it is at the very least a great value and a fair competitor to virtually any mid size or larger sedan that stickers under $35K.

It would also appear that the large majority of Azzy owners (posting of this forum) feel the need to extoll the virtues of the car they selected (myself included). I am not sure that the level of owner loyalty and intensity is as high for other makes of sedan that are discussed in this forum. For example, most Avalon owners know that their car is generally highly regarded (deservedly so) and while they will be happy to dispute any claim that an Azera is better than an Avalon, they seem less sensitive about a comment that an Azera might be the equivalent of the Avalon or even better regarding a particular dimension or feature (as long as the Avalon is the perceived overall winner).

We underdog unappreciated Azzy owners are willing to jump into the fray at the least provocation. Maybe a couple of years more of Hyundai quality cars and the the release of even more upscale models will change that, but for now, our feathers are easily ruffled and attack mode is just a key stroke away.

tjc78 · July 2007

"$31 for a loaded Azera"

I was talking MSRP. If I recall the actual # was $30,600.

allmet33 · July 2007

Funny...you may end up back around $30K after tax, tags, title and the whole 9.

tjc78 · July 2007

"Can't believe you actually said "Image is everything"

Why not? I am not saying that I believe in it but I would think that many do even if they won't admit it. How many things do people buy that cost more money but aren't really any better except for the name? The clothing industry immediately comes to mind.

scbob · July 2007

Thanks for your comments. Perhaps we Azzy owners do go overboard, but it also seems that some people become very defensive if you think Azera is better than their preferred cars. It is all a matter of perception and opinion anyway.
My comments are based on six months of research and test drives. In addition, I own/owned Toyotas and almost bought an Avalon until the latest version came out. Another problem was the difficulty in finding one with ESC the way I wanted it. Also have friends who owned Toyotas. Most very good, but some were terrible.
Tested the Lexus and negotiated with five different dealers. Every time I got into the car or looked at the brochure and compared it to Azera, it just wasn't there.
I would love to get a Lexus, if it looked like it was worth $40 - 75,000 and had the features that I want.

scbob · July 2007

The Limiteds I test drove sure felt smaller than the Azera. Also, If I remember correctly, the dimensions in the brochures were smaller overall for the Avalon.
Sometimes, it is a matter of where you place the steering column and the size of the console. A reputable magazine review(not me Louiswei) said the Infiniti G35 seating is smaller because of the width of the console.

allmet33 · July 2007

I think the reason the Avalon FEELS smaller inside is the way the glass surrounding the cabin is. I mean...I sat in an Avalon and it did feel more closed in than my Azera does.

tjc78 · July 2007

Interior Azera Avalon
Front Headroom 40.2 in. 38.8 in.
Rear Headroom 38.2 in. 37.5 in.
Front Shoulder Room 57.9 in. 59.4 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 57.1 in. 58.2 in.
Front Hip Room 55.5 in. 55.8 in.
Rear Hip Room 55.1 in. 56.2 in.
Front Leg Room 43.7 in. 41.3 in.
Rear Leg Room 38.2 in. 40.9 in.

This is taken from right here at Edmunds. It must be the extra headroom that makes the Azera seem bigger. They are really close in every dimension.

allmet33 · July 2007

Yeah...I've seen the numbers before, I did that research when I looked at the specs when I was looking. Like I said before...I've sat in both and looking around the car, I really can't say one is bigger inside than the other. I do know that the Avalon offering reclining rear seats is a bonus for rear passengers.

However, another thing that can change the perception of size when it comes to the interior is the color itself. Darker colors swallow everything up and make it seem smaller inside, lighter colors make it seem more open. More light shining in also makes it seem larger as well. If I recall, the windows on the Avalon seem to sit a little higher compared to the Azera. I don't think the glass surface is as tall (side windows).

makigrl · July 2007

What about chrysler, jeep and dodge vehicles with there unlimited powertrain warranty that is good on all of there vehicles except diesel, srt-8, sprinter, and fleet vehicles. The maxima is usually considered to be a neat luxury vehicle just like the mitsubishi diamante and mazda millenia are. Without the prestige you get from the other higher end vehicles.

If you go to the car reviews you will notice vehicles like the buick lacrosse they will compare them to chrysler 300c, avalon, and maxima. If you go to review for the maxima on the other hand they will compare it to the bmw 3 series and some of the higher end more luxurious vehicles.

tjc78 · July 2007

I tell everyone that rides in the back to recline the seats if they want. At first they think I am kidding, then try it and most of the time put the seat upright again. Its one feature I could certainly live without.

makigrl · July 2007

One thing the Azera doesn't have like the kia amanti is navigation. This is something that the american cars like the buick lucerne, chrysler 300, and 2008 ford tarus/mercury sable have began to embrace. For some reason when japense midsize family cars like the accord/altima/camry started having navigation with american cars you could only get navigation on cadillacs, lincolns and SUVS or Trucks.

This is a big thing as I wouldn't want a navigation system that can be confusing and unnecessary safety hazard. Some people want a navigation system and I don't know why korean or americans cars don't have this.

allmet33 · July 2007

I have yet to see a comparison between the Maxima and the BMW 3-Series, or any other higher end luxo-models.

allmet33 · July 2007

Funny thing is...the Korean cars DO have it, but for whatever reason...they chose not to release them to the U.S. market. The Korean and Euro versions of the Azera do get navigation.

Personally, having more than one car in my family, I would prefer a portable nav system.

allmet33 · July 2007

I understand what you're saying, but in the reclined position, it gives the rear riders just a little bit more room than in the upright position. Personally, if the rear seats recline, I want a leg rest to come up so I can kick back and relax completely...you know, like in the Maybachs!!!

What good is reclining if you can't kick your feet up? :confuse:

jaymagic · July 2007

NAV is coming to Azera's in 08.

allmet33 · July 2007

Even though I'm not a fan of in-dash nav systems, I do feel that it should have been offered on the initial Azera back in '06. Glad to see it took 'em 2 years to catch on that Americans like that techno-gadgetry too. I can't help but wonder if it's going to be a satellite or CD based system?

colloquor · July 2007

"Image is everything . . ." This seems to be the American Way with everything! Let's face it, many people spend more time, and borrowed money, trying to impress others, when the only real thing they should be concerned about is impressing themselves.

Most everyone that posts here on Edmunds.com is not your "average or typical" car buyer. I think the majority of car buyers in the USA buy based on image, perception, marketing, and what their friends recommend, not by conducting logical side-by-side comparisons and substantial research. Many are frankly clueless when it comes to buying a car, because they are generally technically uninformed.

jimmy2x · July 2007

I think the majority of car buyers in the USA buy based on image, perception, marketing, and what their friends recommend, not by conducting logical side-by-side comparisons and substantial research. Many are frankly clueless when it comes to buying a car, because they are generally technically uninformed.

You may well be right. OTOH, sometimes I feel in danger of suffering from information overload. I can only hope that all of the time spent reading and comparing various cars will pay-off in the end.

Sometimes, I remember back in "olden" times when we just bought cars based on how "cool" it was perceived to be (Mustang??), or if we needed a great way to "See the USA". I do not recall ANY of us obsessing about the tactile feel of plastics or how powerful our headlights were. "Stability control" was a function of the drivers expertise (or lack of).

Most of us really knew very little about the inevitable quirks and follies of the cars we bought until afterward. Somehow we all survived the trauma, and incredibly enough, most of us were happy with what we bought.

A far simpler time that, of course, cannot be repeated.

pahefner01 · July 2007

One thing the Azera doesn't have like the kia amanti is navigation.

The simple solution to this issue is to purchase a portable GPS unit. I have a Garmin Nuvi 660 which provides me with Bluetooth for hands free cell phone usage and I can use it in my Jeep Cherokee and take it along on trips to use in rental cars.

Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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