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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison



  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    re 2899 ; "The V6 will have the second generation of Lambda with increased hp (in this case around 300 horses) and increased fuel economy."

    Isn't that an oxymoron.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    more like technology advancement.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    "The doors sound hollow when you close them."

    Actually...the doors on the Azera do NOT sound hollow at all when you close them. Something I was quite impressed with when I took my initial test drive. When I went to replace the stock door speakers, I found out why...a very nice aluminum panel sits behind the door panel. No holes in it except for where the speaker is mounted. All window components are attached to the panel for a solid build. can pick up a used S430, then get ready to pay out the nose for preventive maintenance on it! :P
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Makigrl...I'm definitely a fan of Hyundai at this point, but right now...the Genesis has to hit the showrooms before anyone can really get too excited about it. I mean...the Azera definitely would lead those of us that know about them, to truly anticipate the Genesis for all it has to offer, but until it actually shows up...all we can do is hope that the Azera really is a building block for Hyundai to do bigger and better things.

    I for one, am anxiously awaiting the first glimpse of the new Genesis when Hyundai finally decides to drop it on us. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Frankly, the number of airbags, was probably at least as important.

    If you aren't in North America, I will retract my statement (assuming you live on an autobahn with unrestricted speed), but if you regularly take a softly sprung vehicle to twice-legal speeds, airbags (and some common sense) should be on the top of your shopping list IMO.

    Can I ask WHY you would go 140 in a softly sprung car on a road made for speeds that are likely half that? I've just gotta know.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Please note, I do not engage in such activity to often, however I feel it necessary for the sake of knowing my car. I do this with every car I've owned, push it to find out just what it's capable of doing. You never know when you'll need to push it and there's nothing wrong with knowing in advance just how far you can.

    How often do you find it necessary to go 120+ MPH?

    I may be a STRANGE teenager (I'll be 20 in less than 2 weeks), but I've never found the NEED to go over even 100 MPH, much less 140.

    The only time I've ever gone faster than was probably intelligent was when my great grandmother had a heart attack and I rushed to the hospital across town from school. I did 95 in a 60/70 (it goes back and forth) with my flashers on. It isn't because the car wouldn't go faster, because my car is limited to 130 MPH according to Motor Trend.

    My great-grandmother is still living (95 years old and still going strong!!).

    Let me ask, have you ever blown a tire at 130 MPH? I'm guessing no, since you are here to tell about it.

    I'm not riding your case, I just can't fathom "needing" to know that my car can go 140 MPH, since there aren't but a handful of US roads capable of safely handling a car going anywhere near that fast.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Has anybody out there driven the new Taurus?

    Thoughts/feelings about this car?

    My grandmother is looking at them and I'd like to know some things to look for good and bad before going into a test drive with her.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Like I said, I push every car I own and I've owned about 9 different the math.

    If you're scared...get a big wheel! LOL

    Actually...driving that fast because your grandmother is having a heart attack is much less intelligent than you think. You're driving off of emotion and you're not thinking clearly. Trust me...I'd rather do it with a clear thinking of what it is I'm doing.

    Nope...never blown a tire at that speed. I make sure I always keep good rubber on my wheels. If I know my tread is weearing, I definitely don't engage in such activity.

    What I base as a need for me, may not be a need for you. We are two different drivers my friend. You stick to what you know and I'll keep on with what I know...hasn't failed me yet!

    Actually...there are plenty of roads that can safely handle a car going that fast, the problem is the number of drivers that can't handle going that fast.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    That's what I am hearing. The V6 will have the second generation of Lambda with increased hp (in this case around 300 horses) and increased fuel economy.
    You Hyundai guys are sounding more and more like you all come from Dearborn - expressions like 'that's what I hear' it 'will do this or that' and/or continually living in the 'next generation'. Doing as you suggest - same (or better) HP with improved FE should require some rather substantial changes in valvetrain technology, fuel control, computer and tranny control programming - none of which I've ever seen from Hyundai - engines not noted historically for either HP or FE, never mind both. Not that it can't be done - witness what Toyota did with the 2GR a few years ago. 'Promises, promises' or put another way - 'show me the money'.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    The funny thing is...the FE is really not THAT bad in the Azera. It's not the greatest, but it sure could be worse. Between that and the soft suspension...those are really the only knocks against the Azera. Two out of how many? I like those odds!

    Who knows, maybe the Genesis will have all of that to show the world that they can truly compete!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    allmet - suggest to you that 'Korean' FE issues have at least as much to do with weight as it does with what's under the hoods. It takes some engineering, lighter (more costly) materials, and money to build light AND well.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Build lighter...I'm sure they can do. Build better...oh, it's already built well.

    I'm not saying the FE can't be better, I'm just saying it's not as piss poor as some make it seem. Funny, the Maxima's FE is pretty similar in numbers and yet...nobody is making a fuss about it.
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    "My grandmother is looking at them...."

    That meant to be a critique of the car???

    Didn't drive the Taurus but rented the 500 for a business trip. Lots of glass so good visibility. Seats comfortable but narrow (my size 34 filled them). Not much foot room it seemed. Depending on what Gram is use to driving, this could be a negative: In spite of the visibility, the car felt--i.e. maneuverability--like a big, rather clumsy vehicle, and that is relative to my 300C. If Gram is use to Crown Vic's or maybe a pickup, no problem....
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    The first thing to note is that many use the term "softly sprung" to mean the Azera cannot safely handle higher speeds, i.e. 100+. I would not agree with that. I think the suspension is not what you would want for a road course, but on an Interstate (Colo has a 75mph speed limit) type road or other smooth generally straight road the suspension seemed to easily handle 100+ speeds. It was very stable at 140, but again, this was a straight smooth road. I was not feeling the "float" as some call it, and that I have felt in other cars.

    As to why -- Simple, I wanted to get some idea of its high speed capability, I was not trying to get to its top speed or go over the rating of the tires -- Again, a one time thing (at least in the US). BTW, when the interstate highway system was first built back in the 50's, it was designed to handle speeds of at least 80mph, except where posted less. This was with 1950's tires, suspensions, and brakes. In fact, the speed limit on I-80, in Nebraska, used to be 80mph, back in the 60's. Of course, this was also when Nevada had NO set upper speed limit. Same with Montana. So, the idea that many roads at least in the West weren't designed for at least half of 140 is simply not accurate. 100+mph driving was not uncommon back in the late 60's and early 70's on certain routes and in certain states. Perhaps some of the older drivers on this forum who ever made the LA to Vegas run have some stories to tell about speeds they drove or encountered.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    I have driven the new Taurus three times. It's a transformed vehicle with not only more power but much improved noise, vibration, harshness. Its ride is cushy. It's no sport sedan, rather more like a Ford Avalon. I will buy one this year. . AS FOR THE SPEEDERS, i think you are quite silly and dangerous.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Well, some of my grandmother's previous cars are her current 2002 Accord, a '96 Accord, '91 Civic, '84 LTD (the Fairmont based sedan), a Granada, and a Torino.

    The Taurus felt huge to me just sitting in it, but I never got in the driver's seat, just the passenger. I've actually heard good things about this car as far as ride, power, and the overall experience - very smooth and cushy seems to be the theme, which would be good.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Posts: 352
    same (or better) HP with improved FE should require some rather substantial changes in valvetrain technology, fuel control, computer and tranny control programming
    I agree that some tranny control programming could help.
    I am very happy with my Azera, and the biggest gripe I have with the car is its inability to give a part throttle downshift when accelerating off the ramp and onto the freeway. They probably programmed the tranny to hold higher gears for economy, but the economy goes down the tubes when I have to floor it to get a downshift.
    Yeah, I know it has a very nice autostick, but the car is so quiet, you can't hear the engine to qauge RPM and must take your eyes off the road to see what gear it's in. That all takes too much time.
    As far as Hyundai not being noted for engine technology, neither is Cadillac, but their direct injection version of the 3.6 engine has about 40 HP more than the standard motor and is capable of higher fuel economy due to its higher compression ratio - so it can be done.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    The phrase you are looking for is DI, as in direct injection. I am not telling you something that hasn't been done before - as a matter of fact, Toyota's 2GR you brought up is the perfect example, its 2GR-FSE utilizes DI.

    Believe what you want to believe, but this isn't an opinion or someone's fantasy. You will see a 3.8L V6 300hp with good F/E numbers in a Hyundai application.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    So...why don't you just switch it over to manual mode when making your grand entrances onto the highway??? You can hold a lower gear for a longer period to make sure the power doesn't drop off should you need to punch it. I think the gearing would be a little different if it didn't have the Shiftronic feature.

    As for what gear it's only takes a nanosecond to peek at the dash, but I go by feel now that I've been driving it for more than a year.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Actually, THE biggest improvement in engines in the last 50 years will be electronic valve control(EVC). They will replace the entire top end of the engine with servo-controlled valves. No flywheel, timing chain/belt, no lifters, no camshaft! All of that is just GONE. In fact, most of what you put oil into a car for won't be there, or required, which will increase reliability as well.

    They expect it to increase power and significantly reduce cost and complexity in engine designs.
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