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2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
You pay an extra $300 to get pretty much the same car, but with 29 more hp.
I really don't see the GLS being a big seller between the 3 trims available.
Honestly, one move that would be HIGHLY intriguing...make a sport tuned version of the Sonata and offer it with the 3.8 V-6 that's in the Azera!!! THAT...would be a hot move by Hyundai!!!
Also, why can't the REAL Chevy and Ford achieve the same status as the German Chevy and Ford in the foreign markets?
Just the question I've been trying to figure out for the 40 years I've been driving. Probably the same reason why many people would pay extra for French wine when California wines are as good if not better. I think the price jump for the BMW & MB cars came when we stopped calling them "foreign" and started referring to them as "imported".
Another question: In the late 1990's, the "non-US" manufacturers were coming out with information/navigation screens which performed a variety of functions. The auto mags labeled them "advanced", "hi-tech", "wave of the future". In the mid 1980's Buick had their touch screen dash in the Riviera. Did a lot of what i-Drive does without the "mouse ball" (and of course without navigation). The auto mags referred to it as "a gimmick", "a distraction", "not practical to use". The difference? Imported vs GM. Not the right cache.
Why can't U.S. cars achieve status in foreign markets? Well, for the longest time they were too big and too thirsty to be anywhere near practical. Besides, ever get into a conversation with a Frenchman or German or Italian and try to convince them that their whatever isn't as good as one made in another country? Ever want to see a war started?
http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2008_Models/Azera/Press_Release.asp
So..with them doing away with the SE, the GLS has an option for leather, and the 3.3 V-6 will be exclusive to the GLS as the 3.8 will be exclusive to the Limited. The scary thing about that is that the fuel economy is almost identical for both powerplants. They were better off just keeping the 3.8 amongst all trim levels.
Hyundai may have finally been listening, but clearly not thinking...IMO.
P.S. I see they are still splitting hairs on the speaker count (counting coaxial speakers as separates). Technically speaking, the car would have 10 speakers.
"They were better off just keeping the 3.8 amongst all trim levels"
Little cost cutting perhaps....
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
So, again I ask...is it really worth the move??? I guess it gives those of us that own the Limited some exclusivity in that you can only get the 3.8 if you buy a Limited. However, those in a GLS can laugh at the fact that they are a little slower 0-60 (29 less hp), get the same mileage and pretty much the same car, save for the navigation and a few other amenities.
I considered both BMW and MB, but their reliability ratings are terrible. Also, you have to get so many options/packages just to get the standard items on Acura, Infiniti, Azera and Avalon that the prices really skyrocket.
Regardless of free service and warranty, if you have to take it back again and again, it's a pain.
Had a Saab Turbo with 36 trips to dealer for warranty work. Also, car out of service for one week at one point. Didn't pay anything, but what a hassle!
I've had two Classic SAABs, neither a Turbo, and still have one as a daily driver - a 1985 SAAB 900. Currently at only 205K miles since purchase in April '85, and nothing other than normal preventive maintenance to the engine - and, still on the original 5-speed transmission with only one clutch replacement. I do all of the mechanical work myself, and buy all parts from thesaabsite.com - helps keep the maintenance costs very low. Still drives like the day I drove it off the SAAB dealer's lot. It's part of the family, but I'm itching to finally make a change!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The base model gets a 2.7 V-6 putting out 190 hp (stop laughing). The next model up (touring) gets the 3.5 V-6 putting out 250 hp. There's a clear and significant difference there. Then when you jump up to the 300C with the hemi V-8 it's another clear jump up to 325 hp.
In my opinion, Hyundai should have just kept the 3.8 in all trim levels and differentiated the way they have been all along. What would really be sweet is an upgrade to AWD being offered on an Azera.
Did Chrysler lower it from 340 hp, or is this with the new SAE testing standards?
You can't be serious. Nothing added to the Av is "a few extra bucks".
As far as it being a cop car, the Dodge Charger seems to be taking over that role.
What's funny is if the Impala goes RWD it will most certainly achieve "cop car" status probably fairly quickly. In my neck of the woods, I still see mostly Crown Vics and Expeditions except over the bridge in Philly where the Charger seems to creeping up a lot. The Charger actually makes a cool looking cop car... unless it is behind you with it's lights on :surprise:
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Yeah...the Charger does make a cool lookin cop car (ever seen the movie The Island?).
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
A buddy of mine just recently got a 2006 Impala LT. It was what it was...decent transportation. The Impala whether it's LS, LT, LTZ or SS invokes a passion for wanting to drive it to me. There is nothing about that car that makes me want to get in it. I'm sorry, that's just me. It's not that I'm against domestic machinery because I like the Charger, Taurus and Lucerne as they all have a unique look. The one that won me over just happened to be the Azera!
I have 18 months to go on my Avalon lease. Next time I shop I think I will have a tougher time picking a vehicle. I love my Avalon, but in '09 it is likely to be the same basic car I have now. Lots of vehicles on the horizon in my price range (redesigned Impala, G8, Genesis) nice to have choices.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Anyway, none of those are listed in this forum, so let me get back in tune here. The G8, re-designed Impala and Genesis are all worthy looking options on paper and in theory. I guess we'll have to patiently wait and see what happens when they are finally offered. Maybe by then, Buick will have dropped a more worthy V-6 powerplant in the Lucerne. Maybe Chysler will see that a 197 hp 2.7 V-6 in the 300 is really a waste of man hours, resources and time. Maybe Hyundai will see the lack of logic in offering the Azera in both a 3.3 & 3.8 variation. Come on...1/2 liter??? It could be different if there was a greater gain on fuel economy by making such a move, but that can't even be said.
" Maybe by then, Buick will have dropped a more worthy V-6 powerplant in the Lucerne"
I would think that the next gen Lucerne will be a varient of the RWD platform from the G8 and new Impala. They can't possibly put the 3.8 4 speed in those.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The Lucerne would be served greatly if GM used the same engine V-6 that's in the Saturn Aura. Very capable engine and I'm sure it could be tuned to work more efficiently with the larger Lucerne.
I know it sounds weird, but I really think Buick soldiers on with the 3800 for the Buick loyalists. Whenever I knock the 3800 people really defend it. In my own family I have a few that don't want to drive anything else. I can't tell them anything about the newer tech engines. As for the Lucerne for every 5 I see 4 are the 3800. I guess the guys at Buick want to cater to a certain audience with the Lucerne, which, IMO is previous LeSabre, and Park Av owners. Instead of people like us who just want a large car with power and economy.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
That motor has continuously been improved. The Series III has improvements over the 1998 series II version. For the folk who act like the 3.8 L is the same as the 3800 is the same as the Series II is the same as the Series III are usually trying to downplay it. I am NOT saying tjc78 did this. Others have in other forums refused to call it a 3800 because it has changed and call it the 3.8 to try to link it to its aged versions.
I do not hotrod my leSabres and I don't have to make full throttle merges daily onto nasty interstate traffic, where I can understand the fuel economy lossin lieu of horsepower and torque would make me feel safer. But my 3800's are more than adequate.
AND the H-bodies and G-bodies that have been around are often on their ownership past #2 and loads of them are running around this area.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I understand that is has been tweaked over the years. It isn't quite the same motor as say an '85 Regal had. However its tough to say its that improved when my 98 Olds had 205HP/220Lb and was rated at 19/29 MPG (weighed 3455)
Now an '07 Lucerne 197HP/227lb and rated at 19/28 MPG and (weighs 3792 CXL trim)
To me these are pretty identical #'s. Where were all the "series III" improvements? Was it all NVH? In all honestly I didn't notice any difference in the new 3800 to the one in my 1998 Olds.
P.S. I use 3.8 or 3800 its the same thing. I don't do it to knock the motor. Really the same difference in calling my Avalon's engine a 3.5 or a 2GR.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Does anyone out there share this opinion?
Don't forget Nissan's (Datsun) first sports car was a copy of the MG/Triumph and then evolved into the 240Z-and the rest is history.
Hyundai may have moved ahead, though one of it's main selling points seems to be $$$: You get a Camry or an Avalon for thousands less--when you really wish you could justify the price of the Toyotas. But so has Ford. The Ford Taurus today is way different from the jellybean Taurus of the 1990's. I'm not particularly a Ford lover. Drove a '98 Taurus company car for two years and it was not bad, but not great. Having driven a 500 on a business trip I can say it was a vast improvement over the jellybean. Biggest weakness was engine/transmission, so I'm looking forward to renting the new Taurus to see how it does.
The point here was that there's no need to slam other people's choices. And what drives (ahem) us toward one model or another may not be just stats.
I grew up in a family were all my uncles fought in WWII. Lost one in Germany and one in the Pacific. You didn't DARE say you were going to buy anything but American in my family. So I prefer American. My Dad loved Chrysler and now I drive a 300C which is 3 yrs. old and has been trouble free. I chose it over other American makes because, well, sex sells and it's a sexy looking car. The Hemi makes it better. You can make all the comments about reliability and durability you want. But if I had to choose between Rosie ODonnell, who is functional, probably reliable and relatively low maintenance, and Catherine Zeta-Jones who is functional, not too sure about reliable and definitely not low maintenance, I'd pick Catherine. Forgetting about the fact that Hyundai is a "foreign" car. To me, Hyundai is a Rosie. No sex. Wouldn't even have been on my radar if it was American made....
Now maybe we can get back to discussing the pros and cons of cars.....
Now, back to cars!
Hyundai is so far removed from their beginnings they aren't even the same company they used to be. Ford...their technology isn't worth putting in a Hyundai these days.
Nice try buddy.
Ford isn't all that bad. They just rush things into production. The 500 was/is a nice overall vehicle and only thing I could say bad about it was the powertrain. The 3.5 wasn't ready so they threw in the 3.0 and killed the car in the process. So now they rename it to Taurus and finally give it a decent engine (which already is getting knocked for NVH, rushed also). However, what they fail to realize is they already KILLED the Taurus name selling to fleets and letting the car go unchanged for so long. The same thing is happening to the Fusion/Milan, should have better powertrain options. What about the Zephyr turned MKZ... their marketing is awful. You introduce a car(s) and change its name after only 2 years :confuse:
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve