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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    yep. your 28 mpg would definitely be in Avalon territory. My Avalon has been doing things like this for over 50k miles now but only gets up to 28 or 29 overall if I hold my highway speeds down to 65 or 70 and/or the city driving is not really city (on a 70-30 mix). Curious what the DT3.5 is turning at a constant 70? In the Avalon,it is 2100 rpm...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Both the DT 3.5 and the 2GR in the Avalon have ratings of 28 MPG highway. The Avalon does one better (19 vs. 18) in town. So, similar mileage is to be expected.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    The Kool Aid over at Ford must be great, because many are drinking it. The Taurus is nothing more than a mid cycle freshening of the 500. A new engine (that was supposed to be there all along), revised suspension, and the Fusion grill. Hardly nothing like the 500. The 500 was such a marketing disaster that Ford thought the only way to save the vehicle was to give it a familar name (that was in the toilet due to being king of the rental car lots). Overall, decent car, but destined for failure, low resale value, and will inevitably be at your local Avis by year end. Its a shame, because it has a Volvo chassis, alot of room and now capable power. However, the damage is done.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    "One other thing I've noticed is that Ford seems reticient to give upon those ugly green leds especially on secondary controls"

    I do love the dash in my Avalon, its so easy to read in any lighting conditions. A big improvement even compared to my previous Toyotas. Most American makes are still using the older style lighting, they will catch up sooner or later.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • burlburl Member Posts: 40
    Hi folks
    I sold cars for 30+ years (Chrysler & Toyota). Detroit deserves what it is getting and are going BROKE or have already been BROKE .
    They have shown no interest or ability to compete
    in the past 20 years of watching their Market share go to almost nothing (GM I believe was about 48% at high now 28% .... #'s may not be exact but at least in the Neighborhood) Same for the other Detroit Idiots.

    I would prefer to Buy Detroit iron just because I grew up in them if for no other reason................................As hard as it is for me to believe it Hyundi has gone from junk to an apparently
    Major competior in (4-5 Years?) Starting at O sales.!!!!!!!

    How can that many executives, designers , workers Manage to run off a past custimor base that loved them and would never Change ( even bought much that they new was not as good as their competitors).
    Hey... beat me in the head with a 2X4 and I will eventually get the idea...as have nany many oyhers

    My 2008 Avalon will be here in 2 weeks ,,,,on which I am trading my 2004 valon on which I traded my 2001 Alavon........can hardly wait for the 2011's to come out New body and whole new line of engines getting 10% more mileage and 10% more power ( on which I will be able to trade BECAUSE OF THE VERY HIGH RESALE)

    Hopeing to see Detroit getting vey very competitive .......Again

    I drove most every thing available and thank god they are getting more competitive but Still not even close except for the few die hards left.
    Actually I would Put the Camory in the slot in discussion ..........
    not the Avalon.............which is the Camory is Disamating them already.

    I sold over well over 4000 cars in 30 years
    While I believe the Difference is much closer than it has been in many Years.............The Boy's in detroit have caused themselves an almost insurmontable problem.

    2 weeks I can hardly wait
    Burl
  • jimmy2xjimmy2x Member Posts: 124
    As I recall the 500 also had a CVT which has been replaced with a six speed automatic. That being said the looks of the car, especially the exterior really do nothing to excite me. Sort of reminds me of the wife's 80's Tempo.
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    For those of you who are obviously clueless as to what the new Taurus is really about. I'll give you a little insight. Despite the fact that I'm technically challenged in discussing comparable specs, engine displacement,etc. I will give you my 2 cents. I started y car search in Dec. 2006 originally researching every square inch of the Impala SS.

    At the time, the SS was the large sedan I was most interested in. I researched every square inch of that car till I knew it like the back of my hand. Well, due to circumstances out of my control, the deal to finally purchase the ar of my dreams fell through in April of 07. At that time I decided to broaden my horizons and I was determined to complete hands on research to every large sedan falling anywhere between $26 - $40,000. To make a long story short, the Azera, Lucerne, Maxima and Avalon were the vehicles most scrutinized. I was finally ready to but again in July of 07.

    Because of the rebates, I came to the conclusion that the 500 I had ignored for so long would be worth taking a look at. I rented a limited for a week and to my surprise the ride was very better than I thought. The Ford gives you a secure feeling missing in the other large sedans.

    Of course, I was very unhappy with the lack of engine power, so I decided to wait for the new Taurus. Fast forward one month later and wow. The new Taurus was much, much more refined, the ride was much smoother and the new engine combined with the new 6 speed trans. made this car the obvious choice. I can't explain it but this vehicle gives you that older lincoln feeling - making you feel you're on top of the world with a bit better handling.

    In closing, I will say please do not judge the Taurus until you drive one. I went ahead and went car shopping with my father last weekend. We test drove a Mercedes E class and after being unimpressed, my father even stated that the Taurus was a much better ride!

    Here are some pics - http://www.myford500.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9847

    PS - I was completely unimpressed with the Azera. As bad as I wanted to be.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    We test drove a Mercedes E class and after being unimpressed, my father even stated that the Taurus was a much better ride!

    You can't compare a RWD midsize performance sedan to a FWD boulevard cruiser. If you want ride comfort and large interior space then the E class is not for you.

    For some reason you didn't state why Azera, Lucerne, Maxima and Avalon didn't get your vote after the test drive. Also, why's Azera so bad? Personally if I am on a budget and want a large sedan Azera will be my first choice.
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    The Mercedes E350sedan is not a vehicle I would considered a"performance" option. It's a V6 sedan with 268 hp. You would think that a $52,000 Mercedes would blow the doors off a $28,000 Taurus. I know it sounds funny, but IMO I can assure you the Taurus is at least equal in ride comfort. If not better!

    I was expecting to be little more impressed by the Maxima. Again, at 29 I'm not an old retiree but ride is really important to me. The Maxima is a little sportier but the ride was unimprssive. At 6' 230lbs, the Azera was a little snug and the highly vaunted Infiniti system was very unimpressive. The accelaration was nothing to brag about.

    Although a nice vehicle, for the price, IMO the Avalon does not beat out the Taurus in any area. Even if both the Taurus and Avalon were similar in price, I'd choose the Taurus. Keep in mind I paid $28,000 for my Taurus Limited. A similarly equipped Avalon would run me $35 - $36,000. That's $7 - $8,000 more!
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    "The Ford gives you a secure feeling missing in the other large sedans."

    I don't really know what you mean here???? Most of the cars here are fairly softly suspended cruisers. But, at most any (sane) speed they all feel pretty composed and safe. I have driven everything here except the Taurus (but have driven 500) and all were more than adequate.

    " can't explain it but this vehicle gives you that older lincoln feeling making you feel you're on top of the world with a bit better handling"

    I have owned 2 Town Cars and a Grand Marquis. If the Taurus's handling is only a bit better than a TC I am running away fast. I like those old boats, but not for my daily drive.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    I can tell you that the 500 and Taurus couldn't be further apart in terms of ride. Interior is similar, but that's about it.
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    "I have owned 2 Town Cars and a Grand Marquis. If the Taurus's handling is only a bit better than a TC I am running away fast. I like those old boats, but not for my daily drive."

    That was probably a bad example. That's why I said I can't explain it. Go test drive a Taurus and see for yourself.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    "IMO the Avalon does not beat out the Taurus in any area"

    One thing that is not subjective is that the Avalon will have better resale value than your Taurus. You will pay more now for the Av but will be worth more later. It seems as if you really did you homework in choosing a car. I don't agree and do feel the Avalon is a better car, but, I can say that with the rebates and attractive sticker price the Taurus may take the Azera's spot as the best value in a large car.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • scbobscbob Member Posts: 167
    One reason I did not get an Avalon was the dash. Who wants doors that you have to open to see things. If you leave them open, you have the lip sticking out. I noticed when I take my RAV in for service, every Avalon on the sales lot has the dash doors open.
    Azera is "too snug" compared to a Ford Taurus? Need to adjust the seats, pedals, steering wheel, et. al. It's bigger!
    If you get a Taurus or an Azera, take the savings, place it in a CD or other investment and in 3-5 years, you will have more than made what you "lose" on resale compared to an Avalon.
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    I hear you and you're right. Luckily, I leased the car for that very reason. That is until Ford's reputation take a turn for the better.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Take a E350 over twisty roads and sharply corners and do the same with your Taurus then you'll know what I am talking about.

    You probably value ride comfort much higher than driving experience and that's perfectly fine. To each of his own. However, that doesn't mean that the Taurus is a better car (for you maybe) or the E-class is not worth it. I think beside performance, just the fit-n-finish and material quality alone the E350 will get my vote.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    "just the fit-n-finish and material quality alone the E350 will get my vote."

    Fit & finish at 20 grand minimum over any car listed in this "Mainstream" forum may be worth it to you, but I doubt to the majority.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    What were your lease terms, if you don't mind sharing?
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    If my memory serves me correctly, it was turning around 1,700RPM at a constant 70MPH. BTW . . . the 28.8MPG combined over the 1,400 miles was with highway speeds above 70 - generally around 75 average. During one section of open rural, and very unpopulated, interstate I did take it up to over three digits just for grins, but for only a few miles. The 25% city driving was truly city driving - stop and go, stoplight to stoplight in 106 degree ambient temps. The A/C was used during the entire 1,400 mile trip. One thing I forgot to mention, the car's trunk and back seat were loaded to the brim, thus I was approaching the GVW of the vehicle.

    I'd driven a Five Hundred when introduced in 2005, and the 2008 Taurus is a huge improvement. My biggest complaint, however, still remains: the front seats seem quite narrow as compared to its competitors, and not terribly comfortable. The 2008 Taurus I drove was an SEL FWD model, and was very quiet on the highway, and extremely stable and solid, even while driving in the wet. I was impressed with the improvement over the Five Hundred.

    As for being basically the same appearance as the Five Hundred, yes, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. The Five Hundred and the new Taurus appear to be a previous generation VW Passat on steroids, and I've always like the appearance of that generation Passat. Remember, designer J Mays indirectly had his hands in both designs - the Passat and the Five Hundred - so, heck, they should look similar!

    Again, and I'm not a Ford aficionado, if people would give the new Taurus an objective look, and drive, they'd come away quite impressed. The new engine and transmission totally change the character of this car. Although I like the Avalon, at least the Taurus isn't saddled with that bloody awful blond-colored faux wood used in the center console and stack of the Avalon.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    for those more technically challenged, as you put it, rest assured that new DT3.5 is still well behind similar engines in Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, and even that Azera you were so unimpressed with - you don't need to to know why, only a decent set of ears and some nerve endings in the seat of your pants. And incidentally, I don't ever remember anybody calling the 500 anything but a well designed car that many of us beat up mercilessly for its crappy powertrain. Te car itself has been softened up(to make up for the loss of the Crown Vic?) which is good or bad depending on personal preference, the car now should have enough power to get out of its own way but is is still well down the list in this particular group - there are some genuinely good cars listed above. IT may indeed be what the 500 should have been in the first place, but it's now 3 years too late and too little - as is typical for Ford these days. It's not altogether their fault, they don't have the money or possibly the inclination to do any better.
    Happy for you that you like it though - if we're spending 20 or 30 something, we all deserve at least that ;)
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    I just want to make clear to everyone, if I had been shooting for a performance vehicle, I would have opted to go with my original choice. Impala SS.

    The argument that continues to be made here is that the new engine in the Taurus is really not new at all. That is fine by me. It's still 263 HP and has PLENTY of pickup. I disagree that the other large sedans have anything substantially better. (And I get it, some people may prefer the sound and feel of an import or the grunt of a V8)

    This might be "3 years to late" but what other brand new engines have been made available from the competitors? With the exception of the SS, it's still just as good or close to any of the other Avalon, Azera, Maxima, etc. in terms of HP.

    PS - I drove an Acura before I dare took the domestic route. First time in my life.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    you are missing the point - 'better' just might have something to do with how an engine sounds and feels, and how willingly and transparently these engines can get their rated 260-270 hp.
  • jimmy2xjimmy2x Member Posts: 124
    Although I like the Avalon, at least the Taurus isn't saddled with that bloody awful blond-colored faux wood used in the center console and stack of the Avalon.

    Definitely agree about the blond-colored faux wood - happily for 2008 I understand that it is changing to a sort of cherry-colored faux wood, which to my eyes certainly looks better. :)
  • burlburl Member Posts: 40
    Ok Ok Ok Ok

    You have convinced Me and probably everyone in here of your love for, admiration of, validity of your analytical Abilities, and why I will look at the Tarus next time I buy a car.

    That's of course if Ford manages to stay in business

    You win , we give up.
    Thank you for your information it was interesting
    Thank you again
    Burl............Hope to see you next year......
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    what other brand new engines have been made available from the competitors
    guess you really didn't do much research did you? The 3.5 in the Avalon and the 3.8 in the Azera were both truly new ground up engines 3 and 2 years ago respectively and since you also mentioned the Maxima - no, that engine is almost as old as what you are calling the 'new' Ford engine, only that it remains a standard (kinda like the SOHC HondaV6) by which all engines of this size and type should be judged. And BTW all three of those cars you mentioned will leave your Taurus (but not your abandoned SS)in the dust.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Sounds like a wash to me.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    Spoken like a true Ford salesman! ;) Of course it depends how long you keep it. Two or three years and the Avalon wins 5-6+ your right a wash.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Unless you are in the market for a 2 year old pre owned then you are a big winner. :D

    I honestly think that the trend of the Honda holding its value will continue. The Toyota as they continue to try to be #1 every month will see values slip, the laws of supply and demand will catch up. That and the fact that they have in a way ruined there mystic of being able to brag about not needing big incentives with the Tundra. They jumped in with both feet there with the big rebates and low rates. If the race for #1 continues and the Sedan market gets competitive again they may follow.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    "at least the Taurus isn't saddled with that bloody awful blond-colored faux wood"

    The Graphite (dark grey) interior of the 05-07 Avalons had darker wood. Not quite as nice as the '08s but not as bad as the blond wood (IMO). I actually went against my normal beige interior for this reason.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    "Unless you are in the market for a 2 year old pre owned then you are a big winner"

    I have a family member who always preaches: "a 2 year old car is the best value on the road" The guy is pushing 80 and never bought a brand new car.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    Frankly, I am glad the new Taurus owners on this forum are pleased with their purchase. It's when a car you buy doesn't meet your expectations, that it's a problem. Avalon and Azera owners by and large seem very happy with the decisions they have made and speak well for the cars they purchased. I don't see what the problem is with an American manufacturer building a car that can sell and make its owners happy.

    While I am thrilled with my Azzy, I know newer models are coming out every year (in fact, I wish I had the Azzy that now has XM). So much of the Taurus (even besides the engine) is new from the 500, why would we expect it not to be a big improvement over the 500. I love to see the info in this forum about what the new owners are saying about their cars and why they love them. I get to think about what will be available in a few years when I get to consider a new model.

    I hope they are all well built, powerful, luxurious, sporty, economical and whatever other positive adjective there is. Now if they only could drop in price......
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    For what it's worth, I'll be getting my new Taurus soon. I can't figure out the argument that because Honda and Toyota resale are better you should buy them despite the fact they cost thousands more. Doesn't make sense to me. Besides I drive all my vehicles to 150,000 or more and resale has little relevance at that point. By the way I did buy a Honda minivan last fall, but the main reason for me doing that was I thought it was the best product out there.

    The Taurus has really impressed me with it's space and quiet ride. Power is good and the transmission pretty seamless. The engine runs smooth and again not sure why people are taking pot shots at it. It's a darn good car and that's the reason I'm buying it. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Besides I drive all my vehicles to 150,000 or more and resale has little relevance at that point.

    Before you judge what I'm about to say, I like the Taurus - I've looked at it with my grandmother and think it serves its purpose very well. That being said, resale is impressive on a Honda. One of my best guy friends has a 1994 Accord (that's 14 years old) with 201k miles on the odo. Three weekends ago, he had his dad's truck to use for the weekend, so he set his Accord out on a busy road with a for sale sign. It's in good but not great shape; has been wrecked, etc... He asked $4,000 for it and got 5 calls in three days. He didn't sell the car; he had no intention to do so, but he wanted to have an idea of what he could get for it. He told me he felt confident that he could get $4k for it by asking $4,700 (his plan).

    Pretty darn good for a 14 year old car 4-cyl Auto if you ask me. The car is an EX (15" alloys, sunroof, Alpine CD added).
  • burlburl Member Posts: 40
    Smart Family Member
    As long as he only wants a "Very Good Driver" He will after come out :
    ...... say 30 cars at $10,000+- saving of $300,000 AFTER TAXES
    or some $500,000 of annual earning's

    Kind of hard to argue with him ........... particularly if we need to borrow some $$$$$$$

    When I was selling cars and quite likely now too............I truly thought the Tarus was 1 of the best used buys period: comfortable, decent shop record , somewhat roomy (people wanting a larger/smaller car could split the difference and come out way ahead) Safe, decent gas mileage, etc.

    I have not checked recently........... but you could buy a current year
    (07) !0,000/20,000 mile rental for about %50/60% of what it cost new......for 10.000/$15000 for a current year car doesn't get much better

    The Tarus has always been a Strong car I really liked them used

    But I never bought 1..........Go Figure

    Burl
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    Yeah $4,000 is a pretty good price for a 14 year Honda, but surly you could get at least $2,000 for a similar Ford or Chevy. Okay if the Honda cost $2,000 more to start with, where's the resale advantage? Also if you would have invested that $2,000 saved at 5% interest over 14 years, you'd have $4,157 in your pocket today.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    He is a smart guy. You should hear his opinions on me leasing my cars. He also keeps them for a while. I guess to each his own. I want a new car every few years and don't put many miles so leasing is for me.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If you liked the Honda or Toyota better to start with (and fourteen years ago I think I'd take an Accord over a Contour or Corsica), it basically means there wasn't the penalty for buying the Honda that many would lead you to believe.

    And trust me, I'd bet 99% of people buying cars don't pick a lower-cost model and invest the rest. In theory, its a great idea, but not very realistic I believe.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    You know a Lumina or Taurus would be better comps.

    Yeah it's too bad more people don't pay attention to those details. It's one of the reasons I've accumulated more wealth at 40 than 95% of the people I walk by on the street.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Trust me, as the owner of a 1996 Accord it is pure compact. The EPA says so too. The Accord didn't offer a V6 in 1994 like the Taurus and Lumina, nor did it have the room of those vehicles.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    i can't figure out the argument that because Honda and Toyota resale are better you should buy them despite the fact they cost thousands more.
    this vis not an argument at all - let's sau you have 2 choices an Avalon XLS for $30k vs. an Azera Ltd. at $25k, lets further assume that you normally trade in your cars in 3 years and with low mileage that Avalon will get you $20k in trade-in and the Azera $15k. Simple math - both cars cost you $10,000 to drive over those three years, the Avalon, in this case, does not cost anymore to own than the Azera, except for the added cost of financing the additional principal ($400.00/year) of which the Avalon shoulod even pay some of that back as well, in savings at the gas pumps. This provides the basis of
    cost-to-own numbers available pretty much on any car and is why things like Avalons and Accords can actually be less expensive than other cars where the initial cost difference can be in the thousands. Use Edmund's or Intellichoice to help you make these kind of evaluatoions - but beware that these services can not always anticipate initial selling prices for any of these cars especially in these days of heavy rebates, 'free' financing, and mfgrs. that would seemingly rather get you into their car than make any mnoney selling it to you and therefore those 'cost-to-own' can skew in one direction or the other. IMO, if you are one of those 'usual' new car buyers that tend to keep a car for 5 years or less 'cost-to-own' figures are far more important and accurate measures of what any car truly costs than a price tag ever thought of being.
    You buy your new Ford for no other reason than you like it - but be aware that it may or may not be a cheaper car to own than let's say that Avalon which will certainly cost you thousands more to get out of the showroom. If you do get 150k relatively trouble free miles out of your Taurus - then it will certainly cost less than any Avalon as this would be the ultimate defendable justification for buying something like a Taurus (or an Azera) just like those Avalon buyers use resale values and the usually shorter ownership periods as defendable justifications for spending more money. Reliability/repair issues though they may come into play over the 150k you are talking about should largely be a non-issue with any of cars.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    Most people would rather die than think!
  • scbobscbob Member Posts: 167
    At some point, we all need to consider - Will I be happy with this car regardless of costs? I looked at the Avalon Limited and considered cost, but the biggest thing to me was that I did not like the exterior styling, the interior styling and the "doors" on the dashboard. I knew that every time I got in, I would have to look at all this.
    Happy with my Azera, but that's me. The $10,000 I saved and using regular fuel will go a long way toward my next car.
    Resale has never been a consideration for me when getting a car. If it was, I would probably keep driving what I had. I have owned some very expensive cars that depreciated enormously, quickly.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    "and using regular fuel"

    The Avalon runs just fine with regular.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Hey Captain Morgan, quit the bottle.
    honestly.

    The new 3.5L is not part of the Duratec family, but rather an all new design. It was engineered from the beginning, however, to have the same height and width dimensions as the current 3.0L Duratec. from here
    http://www.autoblog.com/2005/11/09/breaking-news-ford-announces-new-3-5l-v6-and-- - - six-speed/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine#Duratec_35

    http://www.myfordedge.com/specs/2007-ford-edge-powertrain.php

    FORD’S NEW DURATEC 35 V-6 NAMED TO WARD'S '10 BEST ENGINES' LIST; V-8 GRABS TOP HONORS AGAIN
    http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=24981
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    not a function of a bottle of anything and really only a suspicion given Ford's history of making promkises they can't or have no intention of keeping. The 3.5 from its rudimentary VVT, its sound aqnd feel (smoothness), to those identical external size and appearance suspiciously sounds like a bored/stoked 3.0. And I guess that Ford calls it a Duratec because the engines aren't related? BTW sponsored awards and honors, articles/press releases ostensibly written by the mfgrs. etc etc. especially when the net result is the same - an engine 'new' or 'old' that lacks the refinement (and sophistication) of many of the others in this group. I'll stand behind my 'bottle' and contend that it really isn't until proven otherwise because of Ford's financial issues, the identical appearance, the similar rudimentary valvetrains and rough behavior when each is pushed.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    Who cares? The 3.0 from Ford is a very dependable engine. I have a brother with one that has 255,000 miles on the original engine and it still doesn't burn any oil.

    Refinement and sophistication are such a subjective words. People throw them around conversations to baffle people. Fortunately I can see through the B.S. Often time they've been used to refer to European makes, and it's well documented those vehicles give people more mechanical problems then most everything else on the world.

    I don't know much about the 3.5 yet, but I'll report back in a few years after I've logged some major miles.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    After 15000 miles with a Toyota 2GR ('06 Avalon) I can tell you it is probably one of the smoothest engines I have ever experienced. From 4000 to 6000 RPM it is absolutely incredible. You can't tell the difference from redline to just cruising along at 2000RPM. I haven't driven anything with the Ford 3.5 so I can't compare I can only go by what I have read and the initial feeling is a lack of refinement compared to other v6s. Not that it won't be a trouble free or economical engine, just slightly behind the competition. Lets face it, Toyota has plenty of money to put into designing new engines, hybrid technology, etc, Ford doesn't. So they do the best they can within a given budget and pop out what they can. I do think they are in the right direction making the 3.5 the engine of choice in most of their vehicles over the next few years. Toyota and Nissan do very well doing that and Ford will too. It has to save money having the same powertrain across multiple lines.

    Which Ford 3.0 with 255K? The old Vulcan pushrod or the Duratec? The Vulcan is known to be a very reliable engine.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    You know I don't know. It's in a late 90's Ford Ranger pickup. It's still running great.

    My other brother also has a 3.0 in a similar aged Taurus. That's one only in the 130,000 range, but again not one problem with it.

    Toyota obviously is doing things well. However,I'm not writing off Ford or GM for that matter. They're still doing a fair amount of R&D and let's face it most of the manufactures copy what everybody else is doing anyway.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,854
    If its in the Ranger its the Vulcan... still being used to this day I believe. The Taurus could be either one depending on the model.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yep, the Ranger uses a 2.3L, the 3.0L FlexFuel Vulcan (148 hp I think), and the 4.0L from the Explorer.
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