Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

16465676970134

Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    One problem that exists is that folks with AWD vehicles think they have a security blanket and they can just drive all willy-nilly and AWD will keep them safe. You are right about a number of folks in AWD vehicles that end up in the ditches because they don't slow down. They think AWD provides them with a sense of invincibility in snowy, icy, wet conditions.

    I too had a RWD vehicle (86 Supra) and never had any problems in snowy conditions. However, it was a manual and I knew how to drive it in bad conditions...SENSIBLY!!!

    For some, AWD replaces common sensibility.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    I agree with you...I wasn't saying YOU didn't say it couldn't be useful, I was just voicing my 2 cents on it...that's all.

    Another thing that folks really forget about too is the tires they have on their vehicle makes all the difference.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and Canada would likely be one of those places where one would face crappy enough driving conditions often enough that 4wd or awd would be a logical purchase, don't you think? The fact that you can get along fine in your RWD 300 is more a testimony to your driving abilities and experience, put your car in the hands of many of us down here in the lower 48 and we will get stuck (or slid into a snow bank) in a rwd car before we would in the same car fwd. Perhaps, sad but true since many folks have really known nothing but fwd and there remains a few of us left that remember well how much easier it was to get around on snow covered roads in a 40hp VW Bug than it was in a 300hp GTO (with or without snow tires or sandbags in the trunk).
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    My first car was RWD and am thankful for it. After a few scary situations you learn real quick to slow down. Never got stuck even in a few large storms.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    I don't think there is any doubt that these 'safety' systems are in effect making us all less capable drivers - much as allmet contends. some computer somewhere 'preventing' you from making a mistake does nothing to teach you how to correct that mistake or even let you know what that mistake was in the first place - and will further be misconstrued by many 'drivers' as some sort of protection from really gross driving misjudgements at which point then you have to wonder whether these things are 'safety' systems at all? Unfortunately, sooner or later TV lawyers will get involved in the answer!
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    I agree with your statement. Quick story: a few years back was driving a base model Altima. I assumed (first mistake) it had Anti-Lock and needed a panic stop in the rain. So used to "stomp and steer" it wasn't a pretty stop at all and almost spun out of control. It just goes to show that when you are used to these electronic aids how one forgets the basics. If I would have known I would have for sure pumped them myself. What are we all going to do when a VSC sensor is slightly out of range and causes more trouble than good. My car is equipped with VSC and while I guess it would work as designed I intend not to find out. I also feel that not having an "off" switch is a disgrace. A choice obviously made be Yota's lawyers and not the engineers.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I also feel that not having an "off" switch is a disgrace. A choice obviously made be Yota's lawyers and not the engineers.

    This is one place I feel like Honda has the idea NAILED. There is a simple VSA defeat switch in all of their cars equipped with the system. It resets every time the car is switched off, then back on, meaning you must turn it off for each trip (a good idea to have it default to "ON" but with the ability to turn it off in no-time).
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    I can turn it off any time in Maxima and it resets to ON when vehicle is restarted.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    My previous Toyota's did have "off" switches. It could just be a cost cutting measure. There is a method to defeat it through a ridiculous set of commands.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    It could just be a cost cutting measure.

    I'm thinking the earlier post had it right when talking about the lawyers doing things.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    That's how the Azera is as well.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the 'off' switch is fine and should be required - but given that it defaults to 'on' on a restart who is going to habitually turn it off (kinda like fastening a seat belt)
    this is not likely cost cutting but much more likely Toyota's product liability lawyers talking - a corollary of McDonalds serving hot coffee that is actually hot. If you read your Avalon manual carefully you will find out that putting a real beverage in your real beverage holders is strictly prohibited by those same silly lawyers.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    PS there are several cars out there BTW where off is not necessarily off, off just 'reprograms' the yaw sensors to higher tolerances..
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As in Mercedes-Benz. The Corvette also offers a "Competition Mode' i believe.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    I agree that in almost all situations AWD is nothing but a marketing gimmick in an originally FWD vehicle - there's a penalty to be paid in that you haul that extra weight, complexity, and cost around 100% of the time, and in an auto gain almost no benefit.
    That gentleman from NYC who needs his AWD for the rare 10" snowstorm will probably be stranded anyway, because the ground clearance on most cars does not exceed 6 or 7 inches; hence, he's unable to get down to solid ground, anyway. He's just plowing snow with his front bumper like the rest of us. In a truck with more clearance it makes more sense, especially compared to RWD only.
    Fact is, I'd take FWD with good winter tires over an AWD car with all season tires, and in my experience, a rear wheel drive car with close to 50-50 weight distribution and good ( and usually narrower ) winter tires and traction control does pretty good in snow also.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE: 3418
    I don't know where you are located, but if you have ever driven a 4WD car in snow,you would definitely notice the difference.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    I'm in Michigan and have driven AWD in snow - I traded a Jaguar X-type for my Azera. I have also owned 4WD Tahoes for a number of years.
    IMO the biggest problem with 4 wheels driving is that you must be on the gas to get any benefit. Yeah, it's a bit better for acceleration, but once you're underway and encounter a sliding problem, you usually want or need to slow down - not speed up. The added weight of the 4WD then becomes a detriment. The ease of acceleration also gives the driver a false sense of the traction available: all the 4WD drive trucks and SUVs in the freeway medians and ditches during winter conditions support that argument.
    Good winter tires work on acceleration, handling, and braking.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    I simply put 4 studded tires on my 4x4 Explorer for the winter, and use it when the roads are really bad. Otherwise, the Azera with the traction control and electronic stability control gets me around just fine on the stock tires.

    Used to use 4 studded tires on my Hyundai XG, which then had MUCH more traction than the Explorer without studded tires, but just decided last winter to change the studs to the Explorer for incredible traction, when needed. Stopping and turning are now incredible, along with very easy acceleration. The only problem is watching out the rear view mirror for other vehicles w/o studs which cannot come close to matching the stopping distance with studs.
  • scbobscbob Member Posts: 167
    The biggest problem we have in the Southern US is the people with AWD or 4WD who think they can drive at normal speeds on ICE!
    Learned a long time ago, if it ices; stay home! If it snows, FWD in my RAV4 Camry, Taurus, etc. did well.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and I also a resident of the 'South' and can count on one hand, the number of times in the last 20 yeats that I had to contend wioh ice accumulation on the roads. The fact is that nothing helps (except possibly studded or chained tires) on ice, and the point really was AWD (or 4Wd) is a pretty dear price to pay in terms of vehicle price, operation and maintainence cost for what really amounts to maybe 90% of this country's population.
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    Is this a new maxima?
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122983#2

    Even though this article talks about Euro Teana, or infinity, on another site , sources close to Nissan are saying that next Generation Maxima will be close in design to M-B CLS. In my opinion this car is too Avalonish
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    "In my opinion this car is too Avalonish"

    That's not neccesarily a bad thing! You are right, the shape is almost identical.

    image

    image

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • scbobscbob Member Posts: 167
    Went to a car show in NC. Got to sit in a lot of cars. Interestingly, the Taurus/Sable seemed nicely sized and done, whereas the Cadillac CTS and Lincoln MKS(MKZ?)seemed very tight inside.
    Most impressive for sitting and size was the Buick Lucerne, even better than the Avalon. Couldn't get the doors on the Avalons dash to open. No Chevys around for some reason.
    Of course, these were two to five minutes per car just sitting.
  • azerafanazerafan Member Posts: 4
    Azera wins Total Value Award in Large Sedan category:

    http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=28

    " ... Hyundai earned two Total Value wins with the Hyundai Azera and Santa Fe. Although the Hyundai brand name currently does not carry the same level of reassurance that more established brands do, the Azera and Santa Fe both led their segments by providing products high in perceived quality, providing exceptional features, and being exceptionally priced – all supported with Hyundai’s warranty ..."
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Second year in a row, for good measure.
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Hi All:
    A 2007 Hyundai Azera with the "04 option group ultimate package" and "floor mats" has an MSRP of $30,675, an invoice of $28,473 and a TMV of $27,275.
    QUESTION: ---- You can purchase a XLE V6 Toyota Camry for almost the same amount and have a better resale value after three (3) years of ownership! ------ Why purchase the Azera????? Educate me!!!!!!
    Best regards. ------ Dwayne :shades: :confuse: ;):)
  • jlindhjlindh Member Posts: 282
    I can think of 3 reasons:

    1. Since the Azera has not been out for 3 years, the resale is unknown.

    2. You have a lot more car for those 3 years.

    3. The Camry has a boil on it's nose.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    The Azera is a large car that competes more with the Avalon/Lucerne/Taurus than the Camry. You really shouldn't be comparing it to a midsize sedan. Good luck getting an XLE V6 Camry for $27,275. The Azera stands out as a value leader. Full size car for midsize price. However, as you point out depreciation is likely worse and so is fuel economy.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    The Azera doesn't have rattles and transmission/engineering/software whatever problems.

    The Azera doesn't end up with about $1500-1900 pack on the purchase like the local dealer tries to implement. E.g., $600 document fee and the salesman said $20 is document the other $580 is for unwrapping the car.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 3429: Bigger car, more features, better value $ for $, and you missed the best of all, $2,000 rebate this month. A no-brainer.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Dwayne,

    You said it best, you can get an Azera Ltd w/Ultimate package (which gives you everything) for the same price that would pay for a Camry XLE. Question...what features come standard at that price for the Camry? However, you're comparing a mid-size car to a large car, so it's almost an apples vs. oranges comparison. I'd have been more impressed if you said you could get a fully loaded Avalon for the same price as the fully loaded Azera...then you would be on to something! ;)

    The Azera is more car for the money paid. As far as resale value, one poster took a bath by getting rid of his Azera after a few weeks. The difference between what he paid for it and what they gave him for trade came up to about 25%. Almost any car loses 20% the moment it's driven off the lot, so it's not that far off.

    If the Azera, and Hyundai, continues to do as well as it has thus far, your thinking on resale value could be wrong. The resale value on Hyundai products has already improved a great deal starting with the '02 model year. I'm not saying it's great...just improved. However, with the Azera, Veracruz, the new Sonata ('06) and the upcoming Genesis...I think you'll be seeing resale values going up and maybe coming close to those of Toyota and Honda. Only time will tell.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    "The Azera doesn't have rattles and transmission/engineering/software whatever problems"

    And neither do the vast majority of Camry's. We have three 07s at work (4 cyls) for the salesmen that have nothing short of flawless (all near 20K miles) and a friend's 07 XLE V6 is perfect as well. How can you judge a car by your local dealers "add ons". I guess it depends on the region but I know for a fact that two of the local Yota dealers don't add on anything. FWIW I am in South Jersey near Philly.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    I know I shouldn't post this here but I am anyway. Toyota has had blip on the radar in terms of reliability. The recent CR press on removing the "recommended" check mark from a few vehicles, is WAY out of hand, the domestics had only a handful of vehicles that were recommended for years! Toyota at one point had almost every one. Even the media is stating it wrong. For example WPVI the Philly ABC affiliate stated that the Camry was no longer recommended by CR.... WRONG only the V6 version. What they fail to tell you is that the V6 is only a small portion of the nearly half million Camrys sold and that the 4cyl is still recommended. No doubt the domestics are catching up with the big "T" but how quickly we forget the crap that the GM/Ford/Chrysler put out for years.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    You know...that's how info is put out there these days. Some sources will put it out there in a way that makes it seem like it covers all models. Consumers really have to do some research on issues like that.

    However, one issue that I've heard has been an issue for Toyota is the fit and finish of all the Camries built here in the U.S. Personally, I don't know if they just build the V6 model here or if they build both. If both are built here, then that would cover both models.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Agreed. However, I do applaud CR on the removal of "automatic recommendation of Toyota models b/c of its reputaion". Everyone should be assessed the same way, and no one should get a break, good or bad in the past.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    Having owned three Toyotas (00 Solara, 03 AV, 06 AV) and having several others in the family, I will say that they are not built quite the way they used to be. My Solara did have a slightly better build than my current Avalon. I honestly can't say that I can explain how (its been a while)but it just felt like it did. Having said that I don't think that the current Camry is built any worse than say a Sonata or Altima and my Avalon is built as good as a Lucerne or Azera and better than a 300 or Impala.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Granted the build quality may not be any worse than the vehicles mentioned, but it's certainly not the standard of quality that folks have come to expect from Toyota. That being the case, Toyota will make it that much easier for the other brands to rival or even better them in certain aspects.
  • tonycdtonycd Member Posts: 223
    For me personally, sit in the both of them (you don't even have to leave the showroom).

    This question will quickly answer itself.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    you are right on the mark, if you are considering the Camry XLE 'equal' to that Azera Ltd.. Total cost of ownership for the 3 years you are talking about, the $27k you pay for either car,would mean that indeed the Camry costs you less to own.
    The real comparison, perhaps, is that Azera Ltd. with perhaps the Avalon XLS, a car that will sticker at 33-34k but probably still cost $4-5 k more to actually drive off the lot. The bottom line, of course, is if that Avalon figures to still be worth that much more than the same 3 year old Azera, the Avalon does not in effect cost any more to own.
  • ykangykang Member Posts: 88
    The bottom line, of course, is if that Avalon figures to still be worth that much more than the same 3 year old Azera, the Avalon does not in effect cost any more to own.

    Are you a psychic?
    I have owned Azera for 18 month and spent $80 for 3 oil change. How about Avalon?
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    The most troubling part of Toyota's issues on quality and reliability, as it relates to CR's new position, is the admission of Toyota's Engineering guru. If you carefully read his statement in Toyota's news release after the CR announcement, he admitted knowing of the problems with both the DBW system (firmware, etc.), as well as the transmission problem - from the very beginning! If Toyota-corporate knew there was a problem from Day 1, why didn't they aggressively pursue, and fix the problems not only on the production line, but also those cars out in the field? The snap ring problem on the transmission was addressed in Georgetown quickly, but other problems with the transmission continue.

    I own a 2005 Honda Accord LX, a 2007 Camry LE, and a 2006 Hyundai Elantra GLS. Which one has been more reliable so far - the Elantra hands down. I'm one of the few posters here on Edmunds that actually currently own one of all three brands at the same time, and my experience is based on objective analysis, not hyperbole or puffery. In retrospect, I "wished" I had purchased a Sonata or Azera instead of the Camry. I've experienced the DBW problem, the transmission problem, and several build-quality issues, especially interior trim, with the Camry. Surprised, yes - disappointed, yes - this will be my last Toyota.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    I have owned Toyotas in the past as well, with the newest model being a '96. All three were great, however...my reasoning for giving Hyundai a try was purely financial. At the time when my '96 Camry was totalled, I shopped the new '02 Camry. When all was said and done, the model I wanted topped out just over $23K, and it wasn't even fully loaded. A buddy of mine had mentioned the new look Sonata, so I went to check it out. After a test drive, which showed me that the car rode and handled every bit as well as the Camry I just had, my interest was piqued. Certainly after going into the sales office and pricing one out, I was convinced. You see...I got the Sonata GLS with pretty much the same features I was going for with the Camry, along with the 10yr/100k mile warranty (I even paid an extra $1100 to have the bumper-to-bumper & roadside assistance bumped up to the 10yr/100k mile mark as well), I only paid $16,800 for the Sonata. Over the next 4 years (105k miles), the Sonata proved to be just as reliable, if not more, than the Camry I previously had.

    When the time came for me to upgrade to a larger sedan due to my growing family. I didn't hesitate to give the '06 Sonata a nod, but shortly after...Hyundai dropped the Azera and the lovefest began. I took an hour long test drive with my family in tow and we all fell in love with the car. I've had my Azera Ltd w/premium package for just over 1.5 years with just over 40k miles and in that time the only things that have been addressed is the airbag light that came on (faulty seatbelt sensor), the chipping on the faux woodgrain on the steering wheel and the sun roof not seating properly when closed.

    In all...I am VERY pleased with my Azera. As much as I enjoyed my previous Toyotas, I am now a loyal Hyundai owner.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    huh? What's your point? Assummed resale values? Yes there is no even 3 year history on the Azera, but do you really figure it to be much different than the Sonata or any other Hyundai product, and especially considering the initial discounts that are apparently available to the Azera buyers and NOT to the Avalon buyer.
    Oil changes!? Only had to take your Azera in for oil changes for 18 months? Big deal, something you should expect from any car - my Avalon BTW with 60k, 2 1/2 years, and only oil changes as well. I use synthetic only though, so therefore my 12 oil changes (or so) cost a bit more than your $80 especially since the 2GR engine uses 6 1/2 qts of the stuff!
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Captain, Captain...turn it down a notch. As the public realizes the quality of Hyundai products is much better than previous products, the value will go up. As I stated in another post previously...it won't shoot up over night, but it is on the climb. Considering Toyota has almost a 2 decade headstart on Hyundai, it's no wonder they have the better resale value. However, don't forget that Toyota went through it's quality problems like Hyundai did in it's first 15 years. Only difference, no company had set the bar at that point so there wasn't much judging going on back then...compared to today.

    The Azera uses 6 qts of oil and I use synthetic oil as well, what's your point? I don't know where the $80 figure comes in, but I've done 7 oil changes at roughly $38 ($27 for 6 qts. Castrol Syntec and $11 for the filter) which adds up to $266. I also changed my brake pads (front and back) for about $100 (changed them myself). So...in just over my 1.5 years of ownership...I've spent $366 in maintenance.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    allmet - I couldn't figure out what ykang saying - because he has spent a total of $80 in his first 18 months of owning an Azera, that this means it may be reliable or may be the first Hyundai product in history to hold its value well? The first point is pretty well established, the second point a real stretch IMO. I would bet you can find a lot of owners of many many different cars that should be able to make the same $80 claim (including myself). It is actually more important over the 3 year time frame that the originator of this thread (djm2) proposed, what the Azera is selling for new ($27k according to him) vs. what the Avalon (or Camry) sells for new as it applies to projected resale values. The fact that the Azera is selling for what is apparently $1200 under invoice does NOT mean anything good for Azera resale values, especially relative to things like Camrys and Avalons were initial costs at or even slightly above invoice are good.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    I don't think it has to do as much with quality as it does demand. Toyota sells more cars with little or no incentives causing the used vehicles to command a higher resale. The amount of money I see used Toyotas going for is nuts. When my lease was up on my '03 Av the dealer bought it from the leasing company to sell on their lot (30K miles and not a scratch). I think the residual was 17K they had it listed a week later at 23K! The only thing they did was new front brakes. The car was only 30K new. I know they sold it too, even if they got 21K its still nuts. Thats only a 30% drop in three years.

    I guess we will have to see the effect of the quality issues (which I still contend is just a blip) will have Toyota offering large rebates in order to sell the Camry. If that happens resale value will start to fall as well.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    The demand is due to the quality folks have come to expect from Toyota. If Hyundai continues on it's upward quality trend, they too will benefit in the resale value department.

    Again, Toyota and Honda have a huge head start on Hyundai, but because the blueprint is laid out, Hyundai has a learning tool to follow. I see them making great strides in the next few years and surprising a lot of folks. The Azera is a start.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    I agree...any brand new car should need nothing more than oil changes in the first 1-2 years of ownership. I needed new brake pads because I'm heavy footed and do a lot of city driving as well. The only problem I had was that I had to buy my front pads from the dealer at $79/pr. because they weren't out on the market quite yet. When I replaced the rear ones, I got them for $25 and they are the ceramic pads at that. The next time I change my front ones...I'll be putting the ceramic ones there too, and I'm sure they will cost me no more than $40 (if that).

    I would think that any incentives that knock off the sale price of the car would close the gap between purchase price and resale value later on down the road.

    I mean...if you have to identical models bought at the same time, but driver 1 paid $27K and driver 2 paid $24K (for whatever reason). Now lets say 3 years have passed and both cars are in the same condition and have the same mileage and they go to trade them in. If the resale value for that particular model is $19K. Driver 1 suffers a greater loss than driver 2.

    Now...this may be a bit broad, but I did a comparison using Edmunds used car research. I used a 2006 Azera Limited and a 2006 Avalon Touring. Under both I checked all the available options. I selected black as the color, input 40K miles under mileage and selected Outstanding as the condition of the cars. Now...from what I know when I was doing my research when I shopped my Azera, an Avalon Touring (fully loaded) priced out at about $34K. The Azera Limited w/Ultimate package (fully loaded) priced out at about $27K. Now please be mindful that these numbers reflect prices and values in MY area. The numbers will be a little different for those in different areas. This is just a representation.
    Here are the numbers that Edmunds shot back for each one.

    Avalon Touring:

    Trade-in Value - $24K
    Private Sale Value - $26K
    Retail Value - $28K

    Azera Limited:

    Trade-in Value - $18K
    Private Sale Value - $19K
    Retail Value - $21K

    According to my math, both cars seem to do just as well as the other when it comes to resale value after almost 2 years. Gotta remember, the Avalon starts out at a higher price, so the resale will be at a higher price.

    Wow...this really opened MY eyes after doing this! :surprise:
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    if you have to identical models bought at the same time, but driver 1 paid $27K and driver 2 paid $24K (for whatever reason). Now lets say 3 years have passed and both cars are in the same condition and have the same mileage and they go to trade them in. If the resale value for that particular model is $19K. Driver 1 suffers a greater loss than driver 2.
    let's think about this awhile. My contention is that the $19k must also go down when the purchase price goes down $3k and probably a similar amount. Why is this? How about because all resale values are relative to purchase price at any given moment. If magically the Avalon XLS starts selling for that same $27k that supposedly you can get an Azera ltd for it would be bad news for Avalon resale values. Look at what happened to Ford 500 resale values the instant that they started floating $6k+ discounts on the thing so they could clear the lots for the Taurus. So, bottom line - it is better for you folks that spent the money on an Azera that it does develop some sort of quality reputation AND Hyundai can finally command a little more money for them because of that. The first scenario may indeed be happening, the second one IMO is still a ways off - that 'Korean car' perception that I think you'll agree is becoming more and more unfair. :D
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    illustrates my point:
    using your examples relative to your $34k for that Touring (may be high mine was right at $30k 2 years ago) and the $27k for the Azera Limited, both cars have lost the same $6k of value over your time frame - meaning, of course, they both effectively cost the same to drive and that the Avalon is not necessarily a more expensive car to own...
Sign In or Register to comment.