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Comments
It's sad that it takes an American V-8 to contend with a Korean V-6. However, from an equipment standpoint...the two are not equal. This discussion didn't start out intially as a performance issue, rather a value issue and to get a good comparison between them...you need to build them up the same, that means V-6 for V-6, even if they don't perform the same.
There's a lot of folks that went into buying and Azera with one eye open. Sure, they knew of Hyundai's past, but they couldn't deny the appeal the car had. Then, when one tiny, miniscule issue comes up...they want to bash the car and make it seem like it was the worst decision they ever made in their life. The same can happen for ANY make and model of car.
Case in point, I was filling up one day at a local gas station and a guy filling up is Cadillac SRX was inquiring as to what I thought of my Azera. After telling him how long I've had it, how many miles it had and the lack of problems I had with it, he proceeded to tell me that his Caddy had 55K miles on it and had been giving him problems.
Honestly, it's not really the vehicle it's self that's the real problem. The problem is the customer service that is lacking at so many dealership service departments. Sadly, it seems that is Hyundai's glaring black eye. I mean, if an owner pops up with a problem and they seem to fix it in an expeditious manner, I bet you...the owner would have little to say about the problem at all. However, Hyundai's lackadasical approach to dealing with owner issues only intesifies the problems because the owners anger only snowballs until he/she is mad at the world. Then as soon as someone says something negative about the car, they are quick to jump in and literally dump on it themselves.
Then you have the folks that get on here and bash a Hyundai product without ever setting foot (or butt in this case) in one to take it for a test drive. They are basing all their comments on the knowledge they have of Hyundai's past products. A guy that works with me was that very way, until he rode in my Azera. His opinion quickly changed and he doesn't think so lowly of Hyundai as he once did. Sure, he's still going to be skeptical, but...not shut off to the idea that Hyundai can actually make a good product.
I will say this much...that Altima coupe is one stylish ride.
Yep, 'Detroit' seemingly has some difficulty producing power competitive smaller engines - always have. However, I would suggest to you that the non AWD Taurus (0-60 6.8?) and perhaps even a 3.6 liter Lacrosse will run right up there next to your Azera all just a smidge behind the Maxima and Avalon. Relatively 'quick' territory by almost any definition. The sad part of the American V8 story is that even though this is what Detroit is supposedly good at, both of those gas hog V8s in the 300 and Impala SS are suffering in the reliability dept. :sick:
Where'd that number come from?
You're absolutely correct. So imagine how lethargic the American V-6's must feel in comparison! LOL
In reply to my post:
"Worst logic. ever."
in reply to your post:
You left out the most important part: No matter what the difference in price or resale value, if you bought an Azera, at the end of the day you're stuck with...an Azera. That alone should be enough reason to buy the Charger, n'est-ce pas??
FYI, I don't drive an Azera (nor any Hyundai), I don't drive a Charger (nor any Dodge). I just pointed out how ignorant your comments were. Hyundai owners are getting penalized because they drive an Azera?? - "at the end of the day you're stuck with...an Azera."
Just by looking at the type of your posts, you probably have never driven a Hyundai, at least not one recently. There are reasons why Hyundai perform well when comes to owners satisfactions, customer loyalty and other similar categories.
I had a Dodge Magnum for a weekend not long ago so I know how "at the end of the day you're stuck with...a Dodge" feels like.
Are you making a statement, reiterating what was already said, asking a question or what???
Exercising on the expansion of my previous post.
The Azera and Charger appeal to two different crowd, one's FWD, and the other is RWD; both excels in certain areas and have shortcomings in other areas. Just trying to share my opinion on the other poster's narrow-minded comments, about being stuck with an Azera is enough of a reason to go with the Charger instead. (paraphrased)
Charger on the other hand is worthless with V6 engine. The only way to enjoy it is with the Hemi V8 and that's if one can overlook that horribly designed interior.
This is just amazing!! Pontiac finally will have a winner in its lineup.
Source: Autoblog
sure about that? this would be the models that DON'T seem to have as many mechanical problems - can provide some semblance of reasonable FE -although a friend with a V6 300 was overjoyed with 23mpg highway. I didn't have the heart to tell him that my Avalon might have cracked 30mpg on the same trip and further would blow his doors off. The V6 offers almost competitive power, less refinement and is of course RWD - if I could only get over the sensation of driving a big bathtub and yes the interior is an egronomic nightmare!
2.7-Liter V6: 178 HP, 190 lb-ft
3.5-Liter V6: 250 HP, 250 lb-ft
I guess the 3.5L is okay but the 2.7L is just down right awful. IMO, with the type of car Charger is and given it's size and weight, any V6 under 300HP and V8 under 350HP is unacceptable. So yes, I think the Charger is worthless with V6 engines.
Almost any car can get good highway mileage with a crazy-high top gear. Look at the Corvette with 400hp.
which traces its history thru its multiple renditions and also notes that next year it is finally scheduled to put out of its misery.
Which sounds like the engine struggled to move the car, to me. Either that, or the transmission is a terrible piece that works against the driver.
I'm not trying to bash the engine itself. It was fine 10, 20 years ago. But it simply lacks the polish, the torque, and the horsepower to compete with more modern, smaller, and more efficient engines. I'm really knocking GM for not updating its engine package. Ford finally did with the Taurus. While it was overdue for them, at least they weren't the LAST ones offering such an engine in a vehicle.
By the way, I'm a 4-cylinder guy, so I'm not a power-hungry kind of person. But for a 2.4L 166 hp engine in my car, I'd hope an engine 1.5x its size would make 1.5x its power, but the Lucerne doesn't come close. 30 more horses for an extra liter and a half of engine. Sure there's more torque, but when I need to merge, the horsies are what matter.
I fully understand, and appreciate, your feelings re. WWII, but most cars today have an international influence. It's really difficult to find a truly all-American car now. Even Ford's Duratec engine is not a Ford design - it was a Porsche design, and Porsche sold all engineering drawings, and even some initial tooling, to Ford.
Actually if I were to pick one system on the 300C that I don't like it's the suspension, which is perhaps the most dominant Mercedes item. Too firm. Too noisy. Love that U.S. Hemi though....
You belittle the 3.8 in the Hyundai for an entire post and talk about all of this "High Output" mumbo jumbo, and then talk about how you have to modify your Chrysler mechanically to make it as good as the Azera. Something isn't adding up here xtec.
We get it, you don't feel the Hyundai engine is a durable as the Dodge (there's no evidenciary support that I've seen backing that claim, but you are entitled to your opinion and won't pursue that further).
Is the 3.5L in the Dodge and Chrysler not the same engine that debuted with the 300M back when Clinton was in the White House?
To compare a mechanically modified Charger to a stock Azera isn't a fair comparison, when you think about it. It's like comparing apples to applesauce. A comparison loses its importance when you start talking about modded cars. One is modified, one is left alone = not a fair fight.
For a mechanic who sez he has worked on Police units for 23 years,
you sure don't know what you are talking about.
Here in town, we have three new "Hemi" units, and two of 'em are broken down!
You can't believe that just because your 3.5 makes noise, that it's faster!
NO, it's only noisier.
Isn't the 3.5 rear drive? Do you know how much power is lost spinning a long driveshaft?
You think a 3.5 rear drive unit is faster than a 3.8 front wheel drive? Get real!
My Azera is box stock, and I say, bring your chopped top police unit around.
If you have been a mechanic for so long, you must have worked on the 9C1s.
Compare your chopped-topped Dodge to one of them.
Ask the older officers which car they preferred, the 9C1 or these new junk Dodges.
Why did you make the broad statement that the Azera wouldn't last a year?
Elaborate please.
Carry on, and keep busy as I know you must, maintaining those Chyslers. :lemon:
I have had Borlas dual exhaust put on my Charger.That makes me pretty equal to the Azeras.
Deductive reasoning would say Borlas improve performace. You said "that," meaning the Borlas I presume, makes you pretty equal to the Azera. If I assume that performance was less on your charger BEFORE the Borlas were installed, then performance must have been less than equal to the Azera.
In other words, your argument implied the Azera would be better than the Charger before the Borlas.
These are family sedans, I realize. I'm just trying to understand your argument.
I haven't done anything to be talked down to, but telling me I don't know how to read a message board just doesn't make any sense. Putting in what I want to say? All I did was repeat what you said and then ask you about it further.
I dont care if Im equal with everycar on the planet,sorry to bust your bubble,but the Azera had NOTHING to do with my DECISION to put the Borla exhaust on,it
I never said the Azera had anything to do with your decision to put a Borla exhaust on your Charger. You brought up the Borla exhausts and how they made your car pretty equal with the Azera. I replied to your post asking about it, and I got a very unfriendly response.
You aren't bursting my bubble, as I have no stake in seeing Dodge or Hyundai succeed.
ANYWAY, can you drop the personal attacks please? Maybe we can talk about the vehicles? Do you really feel the Charger was not equal with the Azera before you modified it, or was your first post I responded to made in error? That's all I've wanted to find out, and I'll I've gotten is verbally beaten up.
You think, but how little you know!
When will you learn? I have worked on the 9C1s more than you have.
Ever hear of the WX3? Bet you have not. You name it, and I did it.
Went though four motors and three trannies.
Supercharged, 52 mm throttle body, custom made after-market heads, various cams,
A S & M headers, a bigger diameter custom made driveshaft, widened factory rear
wheels with 315/35s, custom programmed ECU to name a few. 3.73s, 9C1 springs.
It's been more than ten years; I'm sure I forget some things.
Forgot the best part. The WX3 is the 94-96 Impala SS which was based on the 9C1 don't you know? I'll bet you did not. But that's right, you're the professional mechanic.
So don't tell us about your chopped top Dodge that you can't even see out of properly.
Bet the tall officers simply love 'em for that. :confuse:
Many cities are still driving the old 9C1s, the last of which was produced in 1996 because they are probably the best police unit produced in the last twenty years, bar none!
Carry on, and keep on wrenching.
Forget trying to argue cars with an old timer who probably
has forgotten more than you know about cars!