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Jul '05 Avalon 0-60..6.0, 1/4 mile..14.6
Jul '05 Maxima 0-60..6.1, 1/4 mile..14.9
Least you forget, these forums are designed to pass along information, opinions, and to have some fun.
Let's not get so emotional.
Have a great day and enjoy your ride!
Azera 7.2
Good point cobrazera. Prior to my '07 Azera I drove a 2000 300M. At the time, it performed well 0-60, in the mid 7's. I later added a K & N CAI and picked up about + 7 HP. The difference in sound during WOT was truly a joy to behold. I miss that in the Azera.
Thanks cobrazera for backing up what I knew but couldn't find to document.
We know that the Charger is somewhat heavier, and what with the rear
wheel drive and a less than modern V6, it simply has to be slower.
Note the poor fuel economy ratings of the 3.5 compared to the Azera.
The supposedly "hot" 5.7 V8 hemi is not. Relatively slow and very thirsty. Can't
figure why anyone would buy one? At $.28 per mile for fuel in town, never mind!
Noisy exhaust systems and CAI do not a fast car make.
Why anyone would do that to a semi-luxury type car is beyond me? :confuse:
With that chopped top styling and loss of forward visibility, you either love 'em or hate 'em.
They are certainly popular with the custom oversized wheel crowd don't you know?
To each his own, n'est-pa?
figure why anyone would buy one? At $.28 per mile for fuel in town, never mind! "
A straight highway of 28 mpg and all around (i.e. back and forth to work in mixed driving) in the 20 - 21 mpg range don't think qualifies as very thirsty. 'Course if you know someone with a really lead foot....
I don't as much question some of the performance figures given as I do their relevancy. 0-60 has always been the standard but it really is a stupid parameter. How many times do you do a zero to sixty accel? The Hemi is at distinct disadvantage in a zero to anything. A Yugo floored at a stoplight will beat out a Hemi at first. The Yugo will just slowly skip away while the Hemi will sit there and melt the tires down to the rims. I bet most cars would match the Hemi from a standing start up to 30, maybe 40 mph. All it takes is specific gearing for 1st gear. The Ford 500 would jerk your head from a standing start like it was a drag racer because it was geared that way, but then could barely get out of its own way. A more interesting performance parameter--and one that I would be interested in, is a 30 (i.e. from an on-ramp) to 70 (freeway speed). Don't think you'd be able to label the Hemi "relatively slow" in that situation, and don't think the "hot" performing Avalon or Azera would look as good as they do in the 0 - 60mph.
P.S. For those commenting on the V6 in the 300C: 300C's don't come with anything but the Hemi. Praise the Lord....Amen.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....so because it doesn't say High Output, the Azera is slow??? Are you implying that because the 3.5 is an "HO" engine that the 250 hp it's rated at is a low rating? LMAO Simply put, the higher torque your Charger has will only mean that it'll get off the line better than the Azera. However, the extra HP in the Azrea will more than make up for that once in 2nd gear.
The sad thing is...the Azera isn't even a "performance" sedan and it'll still run with a Charger with the 3.5 HO V-6. What should that be telling you??? The American V-6's are NOT keeping up with the foreign V-6's...simply put! Imagine if Hyundai did make the Azera more of a performance based sedan and cranked the torque up and stiffened the suspension. Your poor Charger definitely wouldn't stand a chance, even with the additional tuning you've done.
Pull a stock Charger SXT w/3.5 HO V-6 off the show room floor and pull a stock Azera Limited with the 3.8 V-6...I guarantee you, it'll be a pretty close run, but the Azera will beat the Charger. Even with the add-on's you thrown in the mix, you MIGHT have just brought your Charger dead even with the Azera in the peformance category! LMAO Now THAT...is funny!!!
You spent close to the same amount of money I did for your car, then you went and spent even more money to pump up the performance because you realized what everyone else has already stated, the 3.5 in your precious SXT is NOT worth a hill of beans. Oh...for your info, the 3.5 in your SXT MAY be the same engine that goes some of the police cars (however, it's is definitely not tuned like one), but the majority of them get the V-8. Only local municpalities get the V-6 versions. State and county police get the big guns when it comes to the engines in their cruisers.
Nobody is underestimating the 3.5 YOU have, you're underestimating the 3.8 in the Azera because you haven't driven one and you really don't know what it's about.
I know this may be asking a lot, but stop and think for a minute...
...okay, take another couple of minutes...
Alright...are you getting it yet???
Nobody is contending that you want to swap your car for anything else, you're entitled to your preference. I certainly wouldn't want to swap my Azera for a pathetic Charger/Magnum/300 with the 3.5. Okay, pathetic is rather harsh here...how bout sub-par...yeah, that works better. Which is what was being said all along, the Amercican V-6's just don't compete with the foreign V-6's. There are foreign 4 bangers that can run with American 6's all day long.
The only thing that the Chrysler cars have going for them is the fact they are RWD and look different from everything else. Oh... and the HEMI. Big deal, in the days of $3 per gallon gas the slightly better performance just isn't worth the FE penalty. Now if your talking the SRT versions obviously FE isn't a concern. The 3.5 V6 is OK, but like you I certainly wouldn't take it over an Azera or my Avalon.
" the Amercican V-6's just don't compete with the foreign V-6's"
The GM 3.6 and the Ford 3.5 are getting close. The power is just about there, just lacking some refinement.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The Hemi...obviously, if I'm jumping out there to get one of those...FE be damned! I'm getting it strictly for it's performance attributes.
Yeah...there are a couple of American entries that are getting close, but still...no cigar. The best one right now is the GM entry that's in the Saturn Aura and the new Chevy Malibu. Then...won't that make the one that's in the Impala a joke??? Then, of course...there's the one that's going to be in the upcoming Pontiac G8 and the best one will probably be the one powering the '08 Cadillac CTS (304 hp).
IOW, let's get out of each other's faces, please.
with the type of car Charger is and given it's size and weight, any V6 under 300HP and V8 under 350HP is unacceptable.
Charger is intended to be sporty and emphasizing on performance due to its RWD setup. Azera on the other hand is FWD and is intended to be a comfortable, luxury, yet powerful highway cruiser. Two different kind of cars, the only similarity between them is that they belong in the same EPA size category. Given that I think 263HP for the Azera is adequate and more than enough. However, for Charge it needs at least 300HP IMO to live up to the potential.
Also, Charger being the sporty one but is 13HP less and 200 lbs more is another big no no in my book.
It sometimes surprises me how some get the impression that every 07 Azera (forgetting about the 06 for a moment) is assumed to have some type of front end suspension issue. Sorry to disillusion some of you, but mine (an 11/06 purchase) has never had any type of suspension or other problem, and none of the Azera owners I have actually spoken with has had that type of problem.
As far as driving the Azera fast...again, YOU are the one underestimating here. I've driven my Azera at 120+ mph with NO problems at all. There is no fear of front struts falling off. The ony issue is a "clunk" noise that is heard over rough surfaces (on some Azeras...not all). Which could very well just be poor strut design. So be it.
The Azera fell down to 9.4 from 9.8, however...look at the number of postings that are there, 3 reviews for the Charger and 70 for the Azera. Even with the terrible suspension problems that seem to exist...the rating is still above 9 whick still puts it in very good company. So what is your point?
You're right, this forum is about different models, and we've discussed the likes of the Charger/300, Taurus/500, Lucerne, Avalon, Azera, Amanti, Maxima and Impala. I think you're just upset now to have someone tell you that your Charger isn't worth an Azera...that's all.
If you look at the number of reviews for each model represented in the forum, that would give you a clear indication as to why you might just hear a little more about the Azera as it seems there are more Azera owners posting than the other ones. Which is par for the course because with no reviews on the Amanti, it has rarely come up in any topic.
I believe that the 2000 R/T version was the first year the 3.5 was available - earlier 'versions were 3.2s rated at about 220 hp.
comparing specs. 2000 R/T 3.5 and current Charger 3.5 there sure doesn't appear to be any real difference. Both are 24 valve, sohc non vvt engines and share 250hp/250 lb. ft. ratings, even the 'tuned' versions that later appeared in things like the 300M were still within 5 hp or so of that '00 engine. I 'm not telling you it is not a decent effort particularily for a 'Detroit' mfgr, but I'm relatively sure any claim that Chrysler made that they improved anything on it is a lesson in 'GM speak' listening to them recount how many 'new' 3.8 liter engines they have produced over the last 50 years.
If the Daimler folks had had any sense at the time they would have let Chrysler poach the MB 3.5 liter as well as those chassis and tranny pieces. Then the Charger would have a helluva (V6) powerplant, rivaling that of the Nissans and Toyotas.
This was what I kept saying all along, allmet, but I just keep getting ignored and told I don't know how to read. It's probably best to just move on.
Let me ask a question for a new topic and maybe move past this..
What technology does the charger have in its engine (variable valve and cam timing, Variable Cylinder Management)? All I know is peak horsepower is down from the 300M that debuted in the 1990s. It was at the front of the class back then with a 253hp 3.5L V6, but now it seems just average, with cars like the Ford Taurus delivering 260+ through a 6-speed Auto, same true of Avalon and Passat etc...
Since when is it a virtue to have a larger car on the outside as you stated in a previous post? Larger outside, but smaller inside than the Azera - and that's a plus?
I wish I had an Azera interior to go with an exterior the size of a Mini Cooper, then I could store more stuff in my garage.
As far as the Azera suspension problems, mine has the "clunk", which is a somewhat hollow sound over low speed washboard roads. Big deal. I don't find the suspension dangerous in any way at all, and it isn't even worthy of my taking it to the dealer to get new struts ( which would be covered under warranty ).
The suspension is good enough to underpin a car that is capable of close to 150 MPH: no governor like on your Charger to save you from overheating your non-HO tires.
I just wanted to respond to your post and let ya know that its worth a couple-hour (if that) trip at the dealer to have the struts replaced. After driving a few thousand miles on the new ones (replaced free of charge) I find the car a lot quieter AND it feels a bit more connected to the road. Nothing negative about getting them changed so I wanted to encourage you to do so. Im very happy with the results.
Secondly...
Someone mentioned that the Azera is not a high performance engine but the 3.5 in the Charger is, because the 3.8 has less torque than HP (although I think it has more torque than the Charger anyway). It is not just the torque figure that determines how fast a car accellerates....you have to take into consideration how quickly the engine revs, peak hp, gearing, etc etc etc. So whoever was saying that about the 3.5 being "HO" and the 3.8 in the Azera is simply incorrect in that assumption. Plus, I have a pretty good feeling that the 3.5 in the Charger (and Pacifica,etc was rated at 250HP using the old standard for rating HP. If you look at that same engine in a NEW car with the NEW standard, (the new Avenger) it is only making 235 HP. The Azera since it was new in 06 was tested using the new standards. Why does the Azera have more power? More displacement, more modern (Variable valve timing) etc.
Basically its no contest!
The responder who calls the Dodge 3.5 " HO " does so because that's what Dodge itself calls it in their ads. If having equal or more torque than HP is the criteria for HO, then the GM 3800 pushrod engine is HO. LOL
The 3800 is HO (back in 1990!!)
Admitted cheap shot... had to do it!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
So is my 1996 Accord, with 139 lb-ft and 130 hp.
Who knew it was a hot rod?!?!?
Just kidding, just kidding.
After multiple posts asking him questions about some posts he made, which contradicted themselves, in a non-threatening, non-sarcastic tone (you can check them out, I think i was pretty objective) and getting told I don't know how to read, I have no respect there whatsoever because I have gotten nothing but middle-school-style disrespect from the poster.
So, if I want to call my not-so-fast 130 horse Accord HO, I think I will. I'm not claiming it to be as fast as an Azera, but I think I'll call it the High Output Super Fantastic 16 Valve PowerDrive SOHC Quad-Cylinder Ultra-Deluxe Engine.
Too much?
Back to the fullsizers...
Any new Taurus or Sable owners with anything to report?
Love all the room in the trunk and back seats. Driver controls are well laid out. Scores higher then anybody else is safety ratings which is important for my young family.
The 08 Taurus has an almost European feel to it and is a big improvement over previous models.
In the case of 300M's, the extra 5hp was a result of dual exhaust.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I believe that they all compete since they are in the same price class and size class. You mention popularity and how you see 5 or 6 on the road everytime you are out... I'd bet a large percent of those are rentals. They sure are around here - V6 Chargers, 300s, and Magnums are rampant on Enterprise lots. They are in Oklahoma City as well, not just here in Birmingham. I'm willing to be this is the case over large parts of the country. Fleet sales hurt resale - just look at the outgoing Dodge Stratus.
I all ready proved that the Azera can't compare to the Charger.
I think you only proved it to yourself. If others were as convinced as you were, this discussion would be dead by now. If you think the Azera and Charger can't compete, then why participate in this discussion?
In fact, the EPA calls the Azera's smaller brother, the Sonata, a full-size car as well.
P.S. Watch the resale value in about a year when the thousands of them with little "E"s on the back go into the market place
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I don't think you get to make that decision, xtec. It can be the end of it for you, as you are not required to respond to all posts. Some of us will continue comparing whatever cars within this thread's boundaries (including Azera and Charger) that we want.
We can go on and on about it. Frankly, Hyundai builds a fine, reliable car and I think that you being a "Mopar man" don't want to admit it. Yes, compared to the Charger the Azera may be a bit bland but is a better car overall. As for comparing the Maxima to a Charger.... another loss! Aside from some torque steer issues with the FWD I'll put it against the overweight Charger anyday.
FWIW: I don't own a MAX or Azera.
"Thats why there is so many cars on the Market.Everyone has differant taste"
Best statement you have made!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I'm afraid there just aren't many Taurus owners period.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Personally, the third car I would put in the equation is the Taurus. In Colorado, I think the AWD would be nice to have, although I understand that most would not need it or want it due to the added weight. I would also give it the benefit of the doubt on reliability until proven wrong. A lot of the kinks got worked out on the Five Hundred.
Unfortunately, having owned a few Chrysler products, I probably feel about Chrysler the way many Americans feel about a Hyundai -- get one and you are looking for trouble. Probably not true, but as so many have said perception is reality oftentimes.