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Comments
Back the Charger truck up... I haven't mouthed off about weight so I'd appreciate you not responding to a post of mine and implying I have. The Azera weighs 3629lbs, not 3820lbs like the Charger. Maybe someone else should check their facts before becoming inflammatory and accusing people of making false statements?
I don't see no need to continue this discussion, its getting boring to me,and I'm sure other people want to move on.
I assume you mean you DO see no need to continue this discussion. That being said, that's fine with me. You don't have to continue participating in it. Ignore these posts and create a new topic all on your own. That suits me fine.
,I buy what I like,i can't help it you don't approve
Still putting words in my mouth? I don't approve or disapprove of what anyone drives. I've found fault with your arguments which tend to have fallacies here and there, not necessarily your car. I only wish you could see that!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I think the Taurus is a nice car too. I haven't driven one yet, but the 500 was great just underpowered (IMO). From what I have read, reliabilty has not been an issue with the 500/Taurus.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Take two more doors then
I would put an Azera SE up against your Charger SXT and beat your pants off!
You keep saying it's an HO 3.5 and yet, it's not putting out more than the 3.8 non-HO engine in the Azera. It's only an HO engine because Dodge decided to call it that. The only reason Ford calls one version of their engine HO is because it's the same engine as the non-HO version just tuned to kick out more HP and torque...that's it. Get over yourself and get over the fact that the Charger has been proven to be pretty close to equal in trade in value with the Azera. You also need to just accept the fact that the stock Azera will outperform the stock Charger. Face it, the Dodge 3.5 just isn't up to the task of taking on the foreign V-6's. Like you said yourself, you had to add an aftermarket exhaust to make your HO 3.5 equal to the non-HO 3.8 in the Azera (this came from your own fingertips).
You're right, the Azera is a family cruiser that can keep up with the performance based Charger...that's sad, truly sad...and yet, at the same time...HILARIOUS!!!
I don't know where you've been, but the Azera has been compared to the Max and the Avalon already. Maybe you need to do yourself a favor and go back and read previous posts in the forum. You're certainly entitled to your points of view and preferences. However, I wouldn't get excited about the Max when compared to it's little brother the Altima when the Altima is beating it's pants off.
So says YOU, however...the Avalon outsells the Charger. Not sure how you look at things in this world, but volume of sales would indicate popularity in most circles.
Although I agree with your post Dodge does the exact same thing as Ford with the 3.5. There are two versions currently available, the Charger getting the "HO" version.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
It's one thing to defend your car with factual information and it's another to post personal opinion and sentiment. That is the ONLY reason you've taken the heat you've taken. Nobody has said the Charger isn't a good car, by all means...Dodge made a good move (in my opinion) with the Charger. However, as most would agree...Dodge could have done the Charger more justice by shoving more ponies into their V-6. The point of the matter is, the Charger is supposed to be a performance sedan and yet...there are family cruisers such as the Avalon & Azera that can run right along (if not past) the Charger. Sorry, it's a fact.
Another point you just brought up...your Charger weighs the same as the Azera and you want everyone to believe that with 13 less hp, it's going to outrun an Azera??? That extra torque the Charger has will make up the difference when getting off the line, granted. However, once the cars get into 3rd gear...the Azera will start pulling away my friend.
Actually, the Azera weighs 3629, while the Charger weighs 3820. The Azera will probably take a Charger off the line as well.
Torque: 257 @ 4500 for the Azera = 14.1 lb-ft of torque per lb of car
Torque: 250 @ 3800 for the Charger = 15.3 lb-ft of torque per lb of car
In the Charger, there's more than an extra pound of car to move for every pound-foot of torque. The deficit is larger for horsepower, with the Azera holding an even larger advantage.
It should be 15.3lbs of CAR per lb-ft of torque for the Charger, with 14.1 lbs of car per lb-ft of torque for the Azera.
I can't go back and edit it now, but the Azera has MORE TORQUE and LESS WEIGHT then the Charger. All of the figures are right except my own misprint of lbs per lb-ft.
You mean the Azera should have 15.5 lbs/ft and the Charger should be 14.1 lbs/ft for torque, right?
At any rate, the softer suspension would keep the Azera from really getting off the line like it could with a more athletic suspension. Not to mention the RWD is an advantage for the Charger too.
If the Azera had 14lb-ft of torque per pound of car it would have tens of thousands of lb-feet of torque!
Ya see what I mean now?
The Azera has less weight for its torque, while the Charger has more weight to pull around relative to its torque. The Azera has more toruqe and less weight.
I doubt, too, that the rear wheel drive version smokes its tires very far, if at all. Actually, a little tire slippage can be beneficial in getting the engine up into the powerband - and that 3.5 HO would need that aid due to lack of VVT, which gives the Azera a wider powerband.
My Cobra has about equal HP per liter output ( about 70HP/liter ) and so is in about the same stage of tune for a 4 valve motor without VVT as the 3.5 HO in the Charger. My 4.6L V8 doesn't really come on boil until nearly 4000 RPM.
3432/252= 13.6
If you don't care about other people like your cars or not then why are you here yapping constantly? You are totally contradicting yourself from the very beginning. Actually sir, people here have already moved on to other topics but unfortunately due to your post now the Charger vs. Azera is back.
Also, maybe you should check out your post too because every single one of those sounds like an Azera bash to me. You should seriously think about that before complaining about all the Charger bashing. Just remember that when you point a finger at somebody, there are 3 pointing back at you.
Unbelievable!!!
Two words... Fuel Economy. Just like the Buick Lucerne 3800 insanely tall top gear to squeeze out every last MPG.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I agree, enough is enough. I am amazed one of the referee "hosts" hasn't stepped up to put a halt to this.
???
I keep trying to introduce new topics, such as where the Taurus fits into all of these vehicles, and looking for reports from people who drive them. We keep coming back to Hyundai and Charger.
If the Charger final drive of 3.07 is coupled with a top gear of .8, for example, that's the same as a final drive of 3.66 with a top gear of .67.
Tire diameter is also a factor - taller tires having the effect of taller gearing.
How many RPMs is the Charger turning at a 70 MPH cruise, that's the question.
Let's see...I've said the Avalon is a great car, just that it was too pricey for me.
I've said the 500 (at the time I was looking) was very roomy (cavernous even), but the interior seemed to clinical and uninviting to me. I also knocked it's totally lethargic V-6 (worse than it's current offering).
The Impala...the only thing I can and have said about it...it's a cop car. There's nothing inspiring about it...inside or outside.
The Maxima...if you're looking for an athletic car, very well appointed...this is the one. However, one should expect a harder ride than most of the other cars in this segment. Only drawback on the current Maxima is the Altima. Why would you want the Max when you can get pretty much the same amount of car and more horse power for the same amount of money? Now Alexstore and I had a debate as to whether or not his '05 Max would dust my '06 Azera, but there was no bashing going on...just a throwing around of facts and personal feeling.
The Lucerne...very stylish car, very roomy, well appointed...only knock...weak V-6 and didn't want the V-8.
The 300...let's see, the American Camry...everyone has one. Not wild about the high windows which creates a lot of blind spots. Also, another "clinical" interior. My mother-in-law has one and after driving it...I was not impressed with it.
The Charger...a very aggressive move by Dodge style-wise. Great potential for tunability. However...as with the rest of the American entries...weak V-6's. I'm not saying they're terrible, just that they could be better.
I've stated all the reasons I liked/disliked all the cars, but I also stated why I didn't purchase any of them and ended up getting the Azera I'm driving today. So please, I implore you to point out when I've ever BASHED someone's vehicle. The only thing I've done is point out facts and state my opinions based on those facts. You on the other hand...well, you're in your own little world believing what you want to believe. Since nobody agrees with you in how you feel about your Charger, then we are attacking you and bashing your car. No my friend, neither is the case. What was being attacked was your contradictory statments and what was being pointed out was mere facts that you just don't want to accept as truth.
Thank you.
We're going to drop the "who said what when" now because all that does is perpetuate the focus on each other.
Enough.
Good point. Maybe one of the Charger (or 300) drivers could chime in and answer it. I would guess that it falls in the 2100 - 2300 range like most of the other vehicles here.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
As an aside for anyone interested I got 27 mpg overall on the drive between LA and SF averaging in the 70s. On the way back I went slower to see what kind of a difference it might make to the mileage. I averaged in the 60s and got 30mpg for the whole trip back to LA. Driving that slow was sure relaxing - I almost dozed off at one point! But it did take noticeably longer.
I really enjoy your posts and enthusiasm for your Charger.
Even though I'm more on the Hyundai side of the discussion, makes me want to give the Charger another go before any final decisions are made.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I did state that the 3.5 (so called HO) isn't terrible, but it certainly could be better. I think the best move forward on American V-6's (for cars) will be in the upcoming Pontiac G8 as well as the 2008 Cadillac CTS. Also, the one that's being used in the Saturn Aura/Chevy Malibu is pretty good from what I've seen so far. I think it's the perfect powerplant for that size car.
Do yourself a favor, test drive them both back to back and see which one sways you. I will say this much...don't just take them for a spin around the block. Try and drive them over roads you normally traverse. You've driven them and you know how cars you've had before handled them. If you can swing it, try to spend at least a couple hours with each car to really get a good feel for the cars.
Good luck!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I did take a look at the Avalon & 500 (at the time) and I even gave the Lucerne consideration. For me...the Avalon was above my budget and the Lucerne and 500, while within budget, just didn't have the power the Azera did. Not to mention, I try to hold onto a car for a long time and the warranty was a huge attraction as well. One good thing with the Mopar products...lifetime powertrain warranty. In the end, it's probably going to come down to the car that evokes a feeling from you. Sorta like that Cadillac CTS commercial, "When you turn the car on, does it return the favor?"
No, not really. It also depends on the suspension. Also, I think you meant "handles" instead of "ride" because it's a common knowledge that the Azera is a very comfortable highway cruiser and Charger is a sporty RWD large sedan.
The Buick Lucerne has much longer wheelbase than the Civic, does it ride or handle better than the later?
My car weighs about the same,so thats a wash
I wouldn't call 200lb a wash. I don't know about you but I can feel the difference with my girlfriend in the car and she weighs less than 110 lbs.
My car has a Mercedes platform
Your car has a dated Mercedes platform. It's a common knowledge that the 300/Charger rides on the last generation E-class' platform. Granted that it is a Mercedes platform but given how quickly technology advance these days I wouldn't be surprised that the Azera platform is equal if not better than a dated German platform.
Its a known fact that the Azera 06/07 have a bad design front suspension
It is a known fact that you can take the Azera back to the dealer for them to fix that.
Once again you wont except that the 3.5 is a H.O.
It is been cleared that the Chrysler 3.5 is a HO when comparing to another version of the 3.5 within the Chrysler engine lineup. However, there is nothing HO about it when comparing to other V6s in this category. You want HO, I'll give you examples of high output V6 engines:
Nissan VQ35: 306HP 3.5L V6
Nissan VQ37: 330 HP 3.7L V6
GM 3.6L HO: 304HP V6 with DI
Toyota 2GR-FSE: 306HP 3.5L V6 with dual DI
Honda: 300HP 3.5L V6
Nobody is putting down the Charger here, however it is just not wise to argue against FACTS.
If you want to believe the 3.5 is a HO, then go right ahead. There's nothing HO about that engine at all. Like I said before, my Hyundai 3.8 has more output than your 3.5 and yet...it's not an HO engine. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... :confuse:
Again, I have not put the Charger down at all. The only thing I've said is that the V-6 is not the best...simple as that. You really must not fully read posts. I stated that the Charger is a very good move on Dodge's part style-wise. They just failed the car by putting the V-6 powerplant in it that they did. I'm sorry if you can't accept that, but it's a fact...it's Dodge's fault, not yours, not mine. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but swallow it you must.
So please, if you want to fully understand what I'm saying about the Charger...read this.
THE CHARGER IS A GREAT CAR FOR IT'S PRICE POINT, THE ONLY DRAWBACK IT HAS (IMO) IS THE 3.5 V-6 ENGINE. FOR THE CHARGER TO BE A PERFORMANCE BASED SEDAN, IT NEEDS MORE UMPH IN THE PERFORMANCE DEPARTMENT. GIVE IT AN ENGINE WITH BETWEEN 265-290 HP AND IT'LL COMPETE WITH EVERYTHING IN IT'S CLASS WITH EASE. OTHER THAN THAT...IT'S A CAR THAT HAS GREAT POTENTIAL.
Is that easy enough for you to read??? The put downs came directly at your factless statements and postings based on personal feeling and emotion. No my friend, the Charger (yours or anyone elses) was never put down. If I was about putting it down, then I would have shot it down when I posted my suggestion to the earlier poster who is interested in checking both cars out. Did you see anything negative in that posting?
Xtec...get over yourself...really!!!
There are some Azera owners on this forum who have had issues with the front suspension. But, the vast majority have not, particularly those that have bought one since after the first of the year (mine was a Nov 06 sale). I am not into dogging a Charger, but it does not generally appeal to the same segment at the Azera in my opinion. For that reason, they are somewhat tough to compare. Whereas the Azera and Avalon are aimed at the same market.
Going to narrow it down as much as possible, hopefully to a few cars, keep on reading/researching/test driving, then, when the time comes, look for the best deal. I already believe I can get an outstanding deal on the Azera.
Xtec, we are all well-aware of how you feel about your Charger. Let it go.
One of the things I read on the upcoming '08 Azera is that the suspension is supposed to be improved. They will also be offering the in-dash nav. system as well. Considering the '08 will only be the 3rd year for the Azera, I think Hyundai has been listening to what consumers want. Now we just have to wait and see how well they actually do with it.
The Azera is a great platform to begin with. It has only been out for a very short period of time and since it's a new model from the ground up, it's surprising that more problems weren't encountered with it. With a few tweaks here and there...I think Hyundai has a great car on their hands.
Or.. maybe just come out with a "Touring" model like the Avalon. However, they shouldn't limit the options and interior colors like Yota. I hate the fact that the Avalon Touring only comes with black interior. I think that would bring some more buyers to the Azera.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The only thing I don't like about the interior choices on the Azera is that you can't choose if you want dark or light "wood grain" in a particular color scheme. If the darker wood had been available with the black interior...I would have gotten the black interior. The lighter "wood" just didn't look good to me against the black. The other thing I would love to see is maybe a two tone seat. I have the tan interior and I'm actually thinking about taking the car to an upholsterer and having them put a suede insert in the seats that matches the darker color that's on top of the dash. I've also been toying with the idea of of pulling all the "wood" trim pieces out and painting them a gloss black (to match the exterior), but the problem I have with that is the steering wheel. I'm not sure how durable the paint would be there since it would be handled on a daily basis.
Nissan VQ37: 330 HP 3.7L V6
GM 3.6L HO: 304HP V6 with DI
Toyota 2GR-FSE: 306HP 3.5L V6 with dual DI
Honda: 300HP 3.5L V6
Now THOSE are some high output V-6's!!!! :shades: