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To respond to your reference to msg 86, yes they fall in value, and I am surprised that owners did not check NADA and Kelly Blue Book values before they bought. Each of them show the Navigator falling off to the $33,900 to $39,000 value after sale.
That is what made me go for a Navigator. I initially went in to lease a used Navigator from our dealer. We turn in a 1998 leased Mountaineer today. They put us into a Navigator for $99 more than a 2002 Mountaineer.
What made us opt for the Navigator is that 2002 Mountaineers with V-8 engines are not available as yet, and for our needs, a V-6 would not cut it. As for people getting upset over the fact that it is a F-150 or an Expedition with a thyroid problem, what do they expect these beasts to be?
Back in 1989 I bought a new MKVII, it is still running and has 145,000, my wife takes it to the hospital every day for work. When I drove it home I made the remark that its is a great $15,000 car not great for $25,000. As for the Mountaineer, it is not a great $35,000 anyting, but is a good $20,000 vehicle. I don't expect more from the Navigator other than room to move daughter back and forth to college, to carry car parts back from swap meets and go in the snow. I do not expect it to handle like a sports car, nor acccelerate like a dragster.
For driving fun, we use one of our three Studebakers, real cars, that smell like cars, and actually drive like cars.
I am leasing the car, which I consider nothing more than rent, it does not pay to own a car these days. Why worry about re-sale, trade in etc.? As cars get more and more expensive for what you can get for a bank payment to own, you wind up with a ten fold better vehicle for the same payment.
I will let you know at 5pm today if we made a mistake moving into a Navgator, I will either love it after two hours, or find every fault there is.........and p*** and moan for the next 33 months.
As an aside, you need a D&B rating in your hand and a copy of your last years 1040 to get the attention of a Lexus saleman in our area.
Bill
Compiled this info from ai-online.com for a response on another site and thought the readers here might find it of interest.
All sales figures are in units sold for the months of Jan and Feb 2001 compared to the same months in 2000.
FORD: 2001 vs 2000
Explorer/Mountaineer 54,277 vs 73,840 down -26%
Expedition 27,494 vs 31,683 down -13%
Excursion 5,238 vs 7862 down -33%
Navigator 4789 vs 6215 down -23%
GM 2001 vs 2000 (GMC, Chevy and Olds models combined):
Blazer/Jimmy/Envoy/Bravada 49,950 vs 59,371 down -16%
Tahoe/Yukon 40,113 vs 27,253 up +47%
Suburban/Yukon XL 31,061 vs 28,974 up +7.2%
Escalade 2084 vs 3788 (The sales for the Escalade were almost exclusively in Feb. for 2001 as this is a new model and sales were very minimal in Jan. compared to 2000. If you doubled Feb sales (2x 2723) and compared to Jan/Feb 2000, sales were up +43%).
FYI: The Sequoia is not in the same league in sales at 9,494 for the first 2 months of 2001, however it is an up and comer. Time will tell if they become a real competitor to the full size SUVs from Detroit.
Been driving my leased 'Gator since November '97, liked it so much I extended the lease 6 months because I wanted to keep an open mind and check out the Escalade. I have 6 weeks to go, and since Lincoln is now going to introduce a totally restyled '02 Gator... I may either extend again or drive my daughter's Cabrio!!!
But seriously... the current 'Gator is a matured vehicle meaning it's been thoroughly debugged and tweaked. It has lots more power than mine, but I can tell you that I have never walked into my dealer's service department with a complaint. There were a couple of dumb recall issues like a possible faulty gas strut for the rear tailgate window... but mine was fine. All "huhs?" for me.
With 49,000 under her belt, this car still looks and drives fine, so I'm wishing you the best. The bad blood over the Navigator is probably just the old chevy-ford crap from our youth! I always busted anyone with a Ford when I had my '56 Bel-Air convertible, and my '57 Bel-Air hardtop. All these super SUVs are probably OK.
The one benefit I see with a domestic brand is that you can wheel and deal. Since I'm also a BMW owner I test drove the X5 last week, and when I asked the salesman how we could make the numbers "work" for me... he said they are on allocation and the price is full sticker. If I don't buy it, somebody else will. Domestic guys are like Sears salesmen right now... everyone looking to screw the neighboring dealer. Hope you got a good deal. The time is right.
BrZ
The Explorer basically took a Recaro design and made it SUV-sized. It had a ton of adjustments including power side bolsters that actually peaked and held you in, power lumbar, all the normal power controls, plus the front thigh support was on a track and could be extended about four inches... a boon for a guy like me with long legs. My BMW's sport seats aren't as nice as those Explorer's seats. On top of all this, you had power controls for both driver and passenger, something that Ford did not offer when I was shopping for a '98 Explorer/Navigator.
BrZ
I mean, that sure seems like quite a lot to give up for an LCD/VCP. Although the unavailability of the moonroof makes sense, I can't figure out why the climate controlled seats would have to go.
Anyone have an answer?
Parenthetically, I have to concur with bondobilly; comparing the Navigator with either the ML430 or LX470 makes little sense. Although the ML430 is a great vehicle and roughly the same price, it's a full 2 feet shorter than the Nav. As for the LX470 it, as well, is a great SUV but it's a foot shorter than the Nav, nowhere near as spacious, and much pricier.
With regard to rear entertainment, I agree that the "packages" from the factory are dumb, but if you really want a rear entertainment system, go to a reputable car stereo dealer and you'll get better equipment and it'll be installed wherever you want it. Check out this link:
http://www.longradio.com
That's my buddy's shop... he does everything from Bentleys to Buicks. Video systems and GPS are the hottest thing they are doing right now. I saw a new 'burban he did recently and it was awesome... dual headrest LCDs, plus a drop-down for the 3rd seat passengers. DVD + connections for a video game, plus GPS in the front seat.
BrZ
I'm just confounded by the fact that the manufacturer, with all of its resources, can't seem to engineer a solution while every small, independent car stereo dealer can.
Thanks
interest in the ones on viberation. I owned
an early 97 EB Expedition and had very few
problems with it. My 99 Navigator does have
some viberation in the 70 to 75 MPH range.
This has been mostly eliminated by three trips
to the Winston tire dealer for wheel balancing.
I fooled around and let the orginal conti tires
get chewed up by a poor alignment. The new tires
are the orginal spare and a new purchased conti.
The viberation was not there with the old tires,
but is noticable with the current tires. I have
read on another board at suv.com that Michelin tires
may be the best tires for this vehicle and may go
a long way to fix the viberation. Other than this
I have had no problems with my 99 Navigator. I
test drove the 2001 Navigator with particular
attention to the front end alignment for drift
and any viberation. I could not detect any. The
truck is being painted now on the lower half and
should be ready by the end of the week. I will
post again later with my first month's experence
on my new 2001.
The reason for getting it was the 0.0 financing
and free maintenance. Also it was nice to get a
sunroof and climate controlled seats for the hot
valleys of So. California. Otherwise I would be
driving the 99 for several more years. The 2001
will be around I hope for at least 150K miles.
The spy photos for the 2002 show some minor
differences in the body work, larger mirrows,
and suburban type door handles. That did not
seem worth waiting for and paying the extra
dollars for.
Dave
Please keep us updated!
Drew
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Steve
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I have:
'01 'gator, 6k miles
1- there is a 38mph groan/vibration when accelerating through 38 mph when in a lower gear.
The dealer has another 'gator with the same thing, and is now waiting for a "ford engineer" to come out and inspect the vehicles.
They think this may be the torque converter or the valve body. I don't want mine messed with until they know what it is.
2- metalic squeel, like a badly slipping gear or clutch, when in wide-open-throttle acceleration, still in first gear, then releasing the pedal 1/4 to 1/2 down from wot to force a shift. The tranny doesn't seem to know what to do, and sometimes if it hits the right spot, I get that load metalic squeel. (obviously I don't do that much,
3- tires? vibrations, mostly over 55, more at over 60, seems to go away by 75:
the 4 factory conti's were swapped, still have it but different, but with over-inflating the tires, I think I have it narrowed it down to 2 of the new 4. I'm trying to get the factory to pull those conti's and give me the new Michelin cross-something tires that just came out for the 'gator.
Otherwise, , I love the vehicle.
Bob.
Thanks
The body shop is going to replace the frame, which causes me grave concerns about the reliability/stability of the truck. In addition, my lease states that I have to pay for the loss of market value (even though it will be repaired, it will not have the same value as one that was never wrecked).
Does anyone have any experience with the reliability after a major repair like this? Any ideas on how bad the "diminished value" might be? Any thoughts on how I can cover my tail and not take a huge financial hit at the end of the lease?
2003 Lincoln Aviator Will Debut in 2002
Steve
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Just wondering if anyone out there has positives or negatives they'd like to share about the Navigator.
Thanks. Happy New Year!
Flex
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=559&press_subsection_id=421&make_id=93
Steve
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The hold is fofr quality checks. They want to get this launch 100% perfect.
Rich
Thanks
Sam
Things usually slow down considerably over the weekend!
tidester
Host
SUVs
Looking at the interior in the picture here, I think it's very very understated. More so than the Escalade. I'm not particularly happy with it. The fact that the Navigator will stick with it's 300hp engine also underwhelms me. The nice new independent rear suspension should make it handle much better, but it certainly isn't enough in my opinion.
Am I missing something here? I'm not impressed with this new design.
Ron
Ron
For those of you looking to buy a used nav or a new 2002 model I've only had a few minor problems with mine that were easily fixed. The truck is really roomy and gives you good acceleration when you need it. I just suggest that you drive the truck on a highway for a few minutes to see if you like how it rides at highway speeds. Lease specials have been popping up lately.. they're advertising 2002 nav's here in South Fla. for $499/mo with $2,300 down (3 year/36,000 miles -- maintenance included).
Steve
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Yes, takes premium fuel.
After checking out numerous vehicles I decided on a Mercedes ML 500 with the optional 3rd row seats. It will seat seven. The one advantage this has is that you can put in one or both rear seats, and with one, there is more useable cargo space than the Nav. I haven't seen this feature on other SUV's but I really like it. Remains to be seen whether this is a good decision or not.