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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Well...for the Azera to drop from above average to just average at only 1 year old, I wouldn't get too uptight over that. Now if the next model year shows another drop to below average...I would worry. What I would love to see is the '08 come out and get above average ratings and then subsequent years after that...it maintain that rating for consistency.

    As far as the '06's doing so well, hey...sometimes, the stars line up just right and everything just seems to work in your favor. Sorta like Kobe going for 81 points, the Patriots making a run at a perfect season...things like this just happen. In this instance, Hyundai hit a home run on the first at bat with a new model. Only downside to this...expectations are raised for them and it's disappointing when they don't uphold those expectations.

    Like I said though...from above average to just average isn't worth selling the farm over, but if a downward trend develops with each model year...yeah, I can see Hyundai having some accountability issues to deal with.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Young??? What makes you think I'm old? LOL At 37, I hardly qualify for the median age of most Azera owners that grace this forum.

    Not saying your old, haha. But I am just about half your age - 20.

    If we were going by just image in here, I'd probably take the Maxima first. As it stands I don't have a need for cars this large, I'm just an enthusiast who likes to talk about all things "car." :)
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Not quite sure what you mean with your post. My comment isn't made against the Koreans, the comment is made in respect to those here in America that buy imports with the thought of having an edge over domestics, but...depending on the particular model you're buying...you're still buying a domestic. The only thing that makes it foreign is because the company headquarters is on the other side of the world.

    I obviously have no problems with Korean work ethic or abilities as I have now owned 3 Hyundai vehicles in my lifetime...so far. And to be honest, none of them were the ones manufactured here in the U.S. But here's another question...what does Korean work ethic have to do with the Ala. plant? I hardly think they shipped in a bunch of Korean workers to work at that plant. I'm pretty sure the plant is filled with American employees.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    LOL Well...if you were to take a spin in my car, you would hardly think I'm 37!!! Scary thing is...I'm hardly done with all the mods I have in store for my Azera.

    Image, I woud take the Altima over the current Maxima. You get almost everything the Maxima has to offer and more power to boot!

    I worry about image myself and yet, I still ended up in an Azera...by choice.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    what does Korean work ethic have to do with the Ala. plant?
    the comment meant to imply that that a Korean built Azera might be assembled better than one from Alabama. A common perception that also includes Tennessee built Nissans, Ohio built Hondas, and Kentucky built Toyotas. I have never seen anything statistical to indicate to me that this is true or not.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Thank you for clarifying. Actually...I have heard of this being the issue with Toyota. That the vehicles built over in Japan are of better quality than the ones made here in the U.S. I don't know this to be a fact either, but I have heard a few Toyota owners say it. If it were the case, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that the same would hold true with the Hyundai vehicles.

    Like the saying goes, if you want it done right...do it yourself.

    From my understanding the Hyundai vehicles that are made and sold over in Korea and other foreign markets, are exceptional in quality. Guess maybe they feel we don't deserve that same quality, so why not let us build them for ourselves.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    maintain that rating for consistency
    and that is exactly what Hyundai NEEDS to do for several more years for Hyundai to improve its image enough that the average car buyer will start to pay attention to what they are doing. It would bother me that the Co. flagship is developing some apparent quality problems in its second year of manufacture, its not like Hyundai is selling that many Azeras and they can't spend the time they need on quality control - something I perceive to be Toyota's problem in the last few years and also conversely, the reason for 'Detroit's' general improvement (along with older engines/trannies etc.) .
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Agreed, however...I still don't see much of an issue of them going from 'above average' to 'average' in their rating. I mean...it's not clear how close to 'above average' they still may be or where in the 'average' ranking they sit. Without having numerical scores in a range that differentiates each "ranking"...I don't put much stock into that bit of a slip. It would be a different story if they went from 'average' to 'below average'.

    Hyundai's problems...well, along with terrible customer support at most of their dealerships, along with an ever expanding line-up and not knowing how to market their vehicles...they just seem to be caught up in a whirlwind with no clear cut direction (as one poster stated before). If they sit down and come up with an agenda and goals they want to achieve, then they can prioritize and get things in order. If I were at the helm, I would actually hold up on the release of the Genesis and focus on quality control of the current line-up. Which, with the Accent and Elantra doing well in their segments, it shouldn't be that hard. The Santa Fe doesn't seem to have any issues, nor does the Tucson or Tiburon.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    well Hyundai does have one thing going for them - GM,Ford and Chrysler seem intent on 'giving' them what market share they wish! And I don't mean to imply that the Koreans don't 'earn' it as well, but the US mfgrs. abandoned the car market quite a while ago with generally inferior offerings and haven't shown an ability (or desire) to come up with anything that would change that. This is what also made Toyota #1 in the world - among other things. If Buick/Ford, for example, had figured out a way to make a 'Buick/Ford Azera' , I think the topics on this forum would be quite different.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Actually, a quick correction:

    GM is back at #1 thru. Q3 2007 worldwide; Toyota was #1 at the end of Q1 2007.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    It's no suprise, as the domestic market has really leaned heavily on it's trucks...always have, always will. Funny how Ford, Dodge and Chevy can all brag about having the longest lasting trucks on the road, but none of them can say much about their cars.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    With the likes of Saturn Aura, Chevy Malibu, Pontiac's G-Line (5-8), Cadillac CTS...they have something to build on.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    let's think about this a little - lets say you could have been the VP of Sales of a car company - and choose a product line that includes the Sonata/Azera vs. the Malibu/Impala vs. the Fusion/500 vs. the Sebring/Charger Where do you hang your hat - back in 2006, or today- and leaving the financial conditions of the respective cos. out of it?
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Re. Hyundai terrible customer support at most of their dealerships . . . I have experience at only two Hyundai dealerships, and the customer support I've received has generally been superb. However, technical knowledge on the part of some service advisors can be questionable.

    For example, Hyundai requires the use of SP-III ATF in their automatic transmissions. There is no substitute, otherwise you will void the warranty. Our local dealer uses "a Hyundai-approved SP-III synthetic equivalent." Again, there is no equivalent or substitute ATF for Hyundai/Kia/Mitsubishi SP-III ATF. It's amazing this dealership would not use ATF that Hyundai firmly specifies in their respective owner's manuals. This is one example of dealership ineptitude, but this not only applies to the Hyundais they sell, but Kia, and Mitsu as well.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    The Alabama plant is (or was) the most advanced plant in the world.

    All the robotics, with such precise tolerences, is amazing. The was a History Channel show about it and was available on You-Tube. Hyundai in Korea and practically other manufacturer anywhere had better build quality.

    But, only the Sonata & Santa Fe are currently built in AL.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE: 4492
    Mike
    The Veracruz has back up sensors, smart key, etc.
  • himi1himi1 Member Posts: 25
  • himi1himi1 Member Posts: 25
    Genesis was unveiled!!
    Read here(lots of pics): http://www.hyundai-blog.com/?p=26

    image
  • himi1himi1 Member Posts: 25
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Colloquor...I know there are dealerships that offer outstanding customer support. The two dealerships I go to are prime examples. I'm not saying they are all bad, but it seems from the complaints I've read on various Azera forums...there are a great number of Hyundai dealerships that treat customers like 4th rate citizens.

    I hate to say it, inept service advisors lends to bad customer service. If you're not getting what you're supposed to be getting for YOUR vehicle, how can that be good customer service? If you go in and happen to know more about your car than the mechanic that supposed to work on your car, how is that good superb customer service. Superb customer service means when you turn your keys over to the service department, you walk away with no worries knowing your car is in good hands and all will be taken care of.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Is the Smart Key the same thing as proximity key w/immobilizer?

    Considering how the Veracruz came out after the Azera, it's not a surprise. Now if those features don't make their way into the Azera, I would be surprised. I mean...the Veracruz is the flagship of Hyundai SUV's and the Azera is supposed to be the flagship of their sedans. It only makes sense...unless, the Genesis suplants the Azera as the flagship of the sedan line up. Which, considering the specs...it would. One could look at it like this...Genesis is 1A and Azera is 1B. LOL

    Unless of course, the Sonata gets phased out and the Azera takes over as the Sonata replacment, but then Hyundai would have to full sized sedans and no mid-size entry (unless Elantra steps up to fill that gap).
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    So much for saying the 3.8 V-6 can't be tuned to produce more HP, huh? Wait a minute...the 3.3 is getting a massage to kick out what the current 3.8 is producing. What is this world coming to???

    Funny thing, Hyundai produces HP ratings on regular fuel, not premium like most manufacturers do. Interesting, very interesting.

    Please tell me that you actually read the list of appointments the Genesis will have...WHOA!!! I can't wait to test drive one!!!!
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I really like the US version better than the S. Korean version:

    image

    More goods:

    http://www.carspyshots.net/showthread.php?t=14287&page=21
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    To be honest, the front end looks like an Azera w/different headlights. The sides are not as curvaceous either. Honestly, from this angle, it looks like the incorporated the look of the Azera and the look of the Sonata. I LOVE that grille though!!!!
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Funny thing, Hyundai produces HP ratings on regular fuel, not premium like most manufacturers do. Interesting, very interesting.
    and so does EVERYBODY else now - this being part of the SAE mandated rating changes that occurred for the 06 MY. Effective then, if a vehicle is sold as able to run on 87 octane the engine must also be rated with the same - hence the reason why the 2GR, for example, is rated at 272 hp in the Lexus ES (premium) and 268hp in the Avalon and Camry (regular). You surely don't think that only Hyundai is going to rate their engines any less than they actually are, do you? There are a few engines in this that do want premium - the Hemis, the Northstar (?), and possibly even the Nissan VQ (although I know for a fact that the Nissan engine handles regular just fine). Maybe not so 'interesting'? As a 'species' I would generally put the Hyundai engines on a tier below the Toyota/Nissan/Acura-Honda engines but generally above what is produced by everybody else. As I have posted earlier, if your Hyundai engine is sophisticated enough to effectively use the extra octane, using premium gas might boost your Azera's HP by a whole 3-4 hp, maybe not worth the 30 cents/gallon?
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    heard that too, though I have not seen anything on the tube about it - wonder if the new Toyota truck plant (over $1billion to build) built in Texas more recently is now 'the most advanced'
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    nice looking interior - hmm, wonder where they got the idea for the screen surrounded by large buttons - kind of simple and clean - oops - haven't I seen this seen this before in my 05 Avalon? What, you can't see the audio system? Hmm, wonder where they got that from? Seems like a good job copying the 'best' most egronomic interior in this group. At least, the 'wood' looks better in these pictures.
    2 things that they seem to artfully avoid talking about in this article - the vehicles weight (logically well over 4000 lbs) and FE (maybe hasn't been tested yet) even with the smaller V6s. The 3.3 figures to run 7's 0-60, the 3.8 mid 6s, and the assummed gas hog V8 sub 6s. I'll be the first to guess about 19-20mpg overall for the 6s, and 3 to 4 less than that on the V8.
    A good looking alternative to things like the 300Cs and Charger Hemis - for sure and likely also for the G8/Aussie Impala. If we give Hyundai a pass and assume that magically car buyers are going to flock into Hyundai dealerships and consider this car to be a viable alternative to whatever, then why the heck would they even consider an Azera?
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Regarding FE, you are right. It hasn't been rated yet. As far as the weight, here is what Hyundai has released...

    3.3 -- 3732 lbs
    3.8 -- 3748 lbs
    4.6 -- 4006 lbs

    All this info, and lots more, can be found at:

    http://hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2009_Models/Genesis/Press_Release.asp

    ;)
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,852
    "then why the heck would they even consider an Azera?"

    I still think there are people that wouldn't buy a RWD vechicle fearing the poor traction in snow. Having said that, as much as I like the Genesis I don't see it selling for the same reason that the Azera sales are slow. Add to it a little bit of cannibalism (as you suggest) and I think Hyundai could be making a mistake bringing this car to market. Of course, it could just be a test for a year or two and the better selling vehicle will be the one that stays in the lineup. This situation would be no different than Toyota bringing in a varient of the GS sedan to the lineup and not dropping the Avalon.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Oh...

    Well, it is nice to hear someone think as highly of the Hyundai engines as you do. I mean...they are good solid engines, they could just use some tweaking in the FE department. However...in FE, the 3.8 is really no worse than Nissan's 3.5.

    You are very right in that 3-4 hp increase is not worth paying $ .30/gal, which would possibly equate to almost $6 extra for a tank of gas if you fill it up from empty. Is it worth that much to constantly have that few extra ponies...I think not.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Is there anything wrong with copying what works? I hate to say it, but every car company borrows something from another car company...it's the overall presentation that makes it work or not work.

    Maybe the Azera will supplant the Sonata.

    I don't think folks will worry about rear wheel drive traction issues considering TCS. I mean...cabbies do it every winter in their Crown Vics/Grand Marquis with no problems and no TCS.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Yeah, but now you're talking horses of another breed. I mean...why would Toyota drop the Avalon because of the Lexus GS line? If anything...drop the ES line because of the Avalon. Alas, there's always someone that just has to have the Lexus symbol on their car, even if it means paying more than an Avalon to get about the same as you would if you bought an Avalon.

    However, this presents an interesting question concerning the Azera/Genesis. It's under the same brand name and the price points for both are close with the Genesis reaching higher because of it's V-8 model. But...starting price for the Genesis is the mid-$20K's...Azera SE territory. The mid-level Genesis will probably go for between the upper-$20K's to probably right at $30K...Azera Limited territory and then the V-8 Genesis will hit the low to upper-mid-$30's....in it's own class (for Hyundai anyway).
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    We've just seen the display of the second generation of Lambdas (3.3 & 3.8), which has made its promise on the increase in horsepower; now we'll see how the fuel economy plays out. Early words are the postive side, even with the additional crank in hp.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I mean...why would Toyota drop the Avalon because of the Lexus GS line?

    I believe tjc78 was trying to say that Hyundai to introduce the Genesis above the Azera is like Toyota makes a rebaged Toyota GS above the Avalon. They both are going to compete with their not-so-lower-tier models.

    That's different than dropping the GS from Lexus.

    But...starting price for the Genesis is the mid-$20K's

    I would bet you my car key that the starting MSRP for the 3.3 Genesis will be no where near the mid $20k. I would guess it to be something like $28,995. The 3.8 will be around $32k and the V8 to start at $35k. The Genesis will be a good value but Hyundai is not about to throw them away yet.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,852
    "Yeah, but now you're talking horses of another breed. I mean...why would Toyota drop the Avalon because of the Lexus GS line"

    Louis hit right on the head of what I meant. Its just to me strange to have two similar vehicles in one lineup. If the Azera was selling like crazy I could understand, however, the Genesis is likely to grab at least 30% of sales from the Azera. Then what? I can only see one of them surviving, but only time will tell.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I understand where you are coming from but can you clarify the similarities between the two?
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    I still think there are people that wouldn't buy a RWD vechicle fearing the poor traction in snow.

    Well, it snows in Germany too, if you get my drift. (MB-BMW)
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    I still think there are people that wouldn't buy a RWD vechicle fearing the poor traction in snow.
    It isn't just the snow traction that FWD has over RWD. Size for size FWD should be lighter due to no rear diff and driveshaft ( e.g. better fuel economy ). Additionally, the driveshaft hump in the rear center seat will be smaller, making that seating position more comfortable.
    I acknowledge that weight distribution, torque steer and understeer are a bigger problem with FWD, but in a family cruiser, so what?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,852
    "Well, it snows in Germany too"

    Those people are also much more used to RWD and how to drive it. There is a whole generation in this country that very well may have never driven a RWD vehicle. I agree that RWD can be fine and would switch from my FWD Avalon to RWD in a minute if the vehicle was right.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,852
    "but in a family cruiser, so what"

    I know where you are coming from, and most people would actually prefer FWD for the benefits you explain. One of the things people love about my Avalon is the nearly flat rear floor. OTOH, as these sedans get more powerful the benefits of RWD soon begin to become apparent.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,852
    "can you clarify the similarities between the two"

    Both are "large" sedans with similar engines, amenities, pricing. Yes, the Genesis is RWD and will be pricier in higher trim levels, but do you really think Hyundai has a market for 2 upscale sedans? Not even Toyota or Honda do that in their lineups. Hyundai's mediocre sales of the Azera and Veracruz should tell you something. Don't get me wrong I like the Hyundai product and the Genesis definately has my interest, I just have my doubts as to how much a success it will be.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    It's already been stated that the Genesis will start out in the mid-$20K's. It's also been said that the top of the line, fully loaded would top out around $37K. Guess we'll have to wait and see, huh?

    By the way...if the 3.3 does come out in the mid-$20K's, just send me your key in the mail and I'll come and pick the car up later on! ;)
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    I don't think folks will worry about rear wheel drive traction issues considering TCS
    a common misperception and a summary of why this is a real problem - traction control systems do not CREATE traction much in the same way that SC systems don't CREATE stability. It is the folks that aren't 'worried' about it that end up in a snowbank - or worse - or even with a car stuck on the side of the road that 'refuses' to move,(in the event that the TC (or VSC) systems are working the way they should).
    Given that most drivers today were trained on FWD vehicles, it becomes much more difficult for them to adjust to RWD - especially with cars with a good dose of HP. I think there is a good possibility that today's drivers won't 'like' RWD simply because it will be more difficult for them to get to where they are going (at times). RWD has several things going for it, but winter/bad road drivability ISN'T one of them - Traction control etc. or not.
    PS - your GM/CV cabbies BTW that 'do it every winter' - likely have sandbags in the trunk to supplement their own experience (and expertise) in driving vehicles like that in difficult conditions - just like many of the rest of us did 25+ years ago (or so) before FWD became so popular.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    louis - since I know what your keys fit, I wouldn't be betting such a fine vehicle on Hyundai's ability to keep prices up on anything
    BUT
    per that blog article referenced in #4520 the Azera -
    With capabilities and features comparable to $60,000 premium sedans, Genesis will be offered at a starting price under $30,000 when it goes on sale this summer.
    where I come from 'a starting price of under $30000' does NOT mean $25k, it means more precisely what you guesstimate - 28 or 29 (perhaps even a $29995 base price?). No matter - It is a real shame IMO, that anything that is presented to be so good must also be so 'cheap'. Perhaps Hyundai would do better if this WASN"T the case and they could sell this thing for only a little less than that $60k vehicle they THINK it is 'comparable' to? Wake up Hyundai - pay some attention to what has worked in the past - call the car something else - and price it accordingly.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Well...it depends on the mindset behind the wheel. Yes, I do understand that a great many believe that TCS is going to keep them safe under treacherous driving conditions. Maybe I should have put myself in the mind set of the many before posting. TCS does not create traction, it merely assists in the event of a loss of traction by removing power from whichever wheel(s) are slipping.

    You are so right, the cabbies have the experience to overcome those conditions in their RWD cars, using whatever means have worked for years and years.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Captain...of course I understand your point here, but now you're going against the grain as well. Hyundai understands it's position, therefore...they can't create a car that would seemingly be worth $60K and put a price tag on it of $50K. I mean...you're one that believes Hyundai will have a problem selling a car that they want close to $40K for, so why sell it for $50K?

    It was estimated that the Azera would sell for $30K from the beginning, did that happen...eh, depends on the market you're in. However, if you look at the Azera line-up...you can get a base model GLS for below $20K and a fully loaded Limited for right at around $30K. That being the case, why would be so hard to believe that the Genesis would start out in the low-mid$20's (say $24K) and go all the way up to $37K for the fully loaded big dog?

    Why do they need to call the car something else???

    On the flip side, the thing I see hurting sales of the Genesis is the fact that they never created a strong foothold for the Azera. While the Azera has garnered a following by those that have actually purchased one, it doesn't go far beyond that. Yeah, there's a few folks out there that give the Azera a nod and recognize it for what it is, but the fact that sales aren't exactly brisk, they are forced to price the Genesis at a lower price point.

    Had the Azera had phenomenal sales, setting records for Hyundai and creating a buzz that goes further than it currently does, then I can see them asking more for the Genesis as the Azera already occupies a majority of the pricing segment that the Genesis will also squeeze into. It would make sense to start the pricing of the Genesis at around $30K for the base model 3.3 version and take the fully loaded V-8 model up to the $40K threshold.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    By the way...if the 3.3 does come out in the mid-$20K's, just send me your key in the mail and I'll come and pick the car up later on!

    And vice versa.

    By the way, when I come pick up your Azera I expect to see stock rims on it instead of those aftermarket ones you have right now.

    It's already been stated that the Genesis will start out in the mid-$20K's.

    Show me a link from Hyundai of them stating that the base Genesis will start around mid-$20K's ($24k - $27k).
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    LOL Oh, trust me...you wouldn't have gotten the aftermarket ones anyway! ;)

    I'll do you one better, I'll let you just see for yourself.

    You can't read too much into media print. Everyone speculated on the HP of the Genesis when it was said merely that it would be more than 300 HP. A lot of folks that I spoke to speculated in the lower range of 300 (310-325 HP). I was one thinking along the lines of 350 HP. When it comes to their pricing...well, like I said...the Azera was supposed to be a $30K car. Currently, if your paperwork has anything over $30K, it's most likely after financing, taxes, tags and title are thrown in. My Limited w/Premium was $26,081 BEFORE any rebates and trade-in were factored in. The Ultimate would have cost me $1500 more, what's pretty well below the $30K mark.

    Now...the Azera line up runs from a hair under $20K (GLS) all the way up to a hair under $30K (Limited w/Ultimate XM package), and even that depends on the market you're in.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Don't worry Cap, I don't think I'll be driving anything else other than a Lexus anytime soon, with a little bit of luck I might find a nice looking Azera in my garage in the near future.

    Why my guesstimate of the base Genesis to be at $28,599?

    1. Hyundai has already stated that the Genesis will be starting under $30k.

    2. The 3.3L Azera GLS starts at $24,235 (already mid $20k).

    3. The 3.8L Azera Limited starts at $27,335 (already approaching upper $20k).

    If Hyundai has any sense (that's the only risk I am taking) they wouldn't price the base Genesis lower than the Azera and definitely not to price it around the Azera GLS, which is the lowest trim. The Genesis will be the flagship of the lineup, to price it at mid $20k Hyundai might as well declare the Azera dead.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Now...the Azera line up runs from a hair under $20K (GLS)

    What? You need to pay a visit to the CURRENT Hyundai website.

    By the way, just to make it clear, all the prices I was talking about are MSRP.
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