Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
It doesn't matter, it's pointless to speculate anything other than MSRP because the car can cost X dollars in Atlanta but another price in Detroit.
Nobody (okay, almost nobody) pays MSRP but everyone pays a price that's relative to MSRP. Once the MSRP is set then we can go on to talk about what will be the discount.
So the base Genesis to have a MSRP of $28,599, agree?
I do stand corrected, and you're right...which echoes a point I made earlier about having two cars occupying a similar pricing segment...not good at all.
One thing I'm wondering, how smooth will that 3.3 V-6 be in that heavier car. I mean...it's going to kick out more HP than it currently does, but will it be working harder to do so...even with the 6-speed tranny? Honestly...I think the 3.3 should be dropped and just have the 3.8 V-6 and 4.6 V-8 as the only options for the Genesis.
now I guess you understand why I believe the Genesis is doomed much like the Azera is - because it is unlikely (IMO) that anybody is going to give the car a look - at 30k or 40k or whatever. And I don't care how good it is - nobody will spend that kind of money for a 'Hyundai'. And as one poster said - it might just be the best thing since 'buttered popcorn'. No matter, call it something else and disguise the best you can who actually makes it - maybe a different story - if the car is that good. Maybe the real solution is to establish that new 'brand' and take both the Azera and the Genesis upmarket leaving the Sonatas/Elantras etc. to duke it out with the masses.
Who would've thought back in in 80s, that Toyota could sell a car for 40k (at the time when everything else they made was maybe half the price) and really and truly compete effectively with those Germans? They got away with it because it was a damn fine car, had a brand name to differentiate it from anything else made by Toyota, and because Toyota already had established a good name on its own. The Lexus was successful because it was assummed that it MUST be a good car - largely because it was built by Toyota and it was. Hyundai might only score on one of those three points, which is why the problem.
That's what I thought. I knew you are not that foolish to donate your Azera to be my 2nd car.
I couldn't agree with you more. However, I think the reason why the 3.3 to be the base engine is that Hyundai has the keep the promise of keeping the base price under $30k. There is no way in the basement that they'll be able to do that with the 3.8 as the base engine.
Personally I think the 3-engine option for this car is an overkill.
For those of you who is interested in the Genesis, the 3.8 V6 is the way to go.
You are right though, the 3.8 model would be the way to go for a nice blend of power, performance and possible FE. You'll see a sprinkling of the V-8's just because folks feel a need for POWER. I'm quite content with the 263 ponies in my Azera, but with the extra weight of the Genesis...it'll probably feel the same. I can't lie and say that V-8 isn't a tempting option.
agreed, and really too bad, but perhaps at $30k (window sticker) it was a stillborn to begin with?
The V8 will be a no brainer if the gas price is at $0.99/gallon like back in the late 90s.
What I like to see is for Hyundai to use DI on the 3.8 to push the hp rating over 300.
now THAT - would be a problem we all share - somehow we can't get them to buy into the old adage 'all boys must have their toys'
Also, you have to keep in mind that the feds are pushing for higher FE ratings, with a standard of about 35 mpg to start off. Granted, it won't be mandated for quite some time, but you always have a company or two that tries to get ahead of the curve.
I think Hyundai is leaving itself some room to grow, however...the word is that the Genesis coupe will have the 3.8 V-6 producing a little more than 300 HP. I guess this makes up for not being able to put the V-8 in it.
Both are "large" sedans with similar engines, amenities, pricing. Yes, the Genesis is RWD and will be pricier in higher trim levels, but do you really think Hyundai has a market for 2 upscale sedans? Not even Toyota or Honda do that in their lineups. Hyundai's mediocre sales of the Azera and Veracruz should tell you something. Don't get me wrong I like the Hyundai product and the Genesis definately has my interest, I just have my doubts as to how much a success it will be.
I just don't see a lot of overlap between the two, at least not more or less than the next automaker. Aside from the Genesis being RWD, the engines are tuned for more output (like Toyota engines in Lexus), a lot more amenities, and obviously equate to higher prices.
As far as sales are cocerned, I think we can all agree it's more a perception issue than a product issue. Hyundai has to work on that and they know it just as much as we do, I'd bet if you slap on a Toyota badge, for example, you would get additional sales.
Is Hyundai satisfied with the sales of Azera, Veracruz, or any other products in their lineup? Perhaps not but the well being of a company I have no stakes in is not really my concern
FWIW, the 3.3 2nd gen in the Genesis has more hp than the 1st gen 3.8 in the Azera.
I would like to see some real fact about that statement.
IMO is not going to cut it.
I'm not saying the 3.3 isn't capable of pulling the car, the question is...how hard will it work to do it...compared to the 3.8.
If the problem isn't price and given that the 3.8 and 3.3 will return similar FE, why Hyundai opt the 3.3 as the base engine.
The difference in cost to build a 3.3 and a 3.8 is marginal.
It is in the marketing and supply & demand, regardless of how informed the buying market may be. (That's why I think Hyundai buyers are ahead of the curve.)
Mike
I do believe that your pricing is incorrect.
The MSRP of the Azera is considerably higher than the numbers that you report.
The fact that the dealers are discounting the price so much as well as the rebates given by Hyundai indicate that sales are not as projected.
When a model is successful, the huge discounts and rebates do not appear.
It is hard for me to believe that Hyundai will market the same model with 3 engine choices.
It would cost the dealerships fortunes to floor plan all of the possible variations.
Most are having difficult times holding their heads above water with less inventory.
Makes you wonder how can they do that, and stay in business. Personally, I view their combined desperation as a gift.
Rightly so, although manufacturers hate to give such gifts. As do their stockholders.
I don't see how you don't. They are both in similar pricing categories, both large, and share 2 engines. My main point is that if Azera and Veracruz sales are slow, what makes Hyundai think they can sell the Genesis? At the rumored pricing it seems to be a steal (to the right person) and will most likely just take sales from the Azera. IMO just drop the Azera and move forward with the Genesis.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
So...no, my pricing is not incorrect.
The Azera w/Ultimate Package ran $1500 more, so that still kept it under the $30K mark.
I don't think there's much of a change that takes place between the 3.3 and the 3.8. They've probably found a away to keep the connections between the engine and the tranny the same. The only difference maybe the gearing...MAYBE.
One of the biggest stretches I've about ever heard. If this were true than Hyundai wouldn't sell a car because both the Accord and the Avalon are less expensive (and generally higher rated) vehicles than Sonatas and Azeras, at least if you are going to believe 'Cost-to-own' stats etc. Yeah, it's all about supply and demand - and the Avalon outsells the Azera about 3 to 1, the Accord grossly outsells the Sonata and by your reckoning then all 400,000 of them are uninformed? Or that those folks that spend the extra money on those great German cars must, therefore, be stupid. Ludricrous.
If what makes the Hyundai buyer 'informed' is that the cars are relatively cheap (initially) it definitely doesn't take a PhD to figure that one one out - just an ability to read! The 'informed' buyer is the one that is NOT necessarily swayed by cheap prices, large discounts, and/or mostly worthless warranties - that 'informed' buyer takes ALL these kind of things into account and then puts it ALL together with several other things and will generally buy what really costs him/her the least amount of money to drive over some defineable period of time while at the same making some concession to what he/she WANTS to drive. Don't have an idea about what 'curve' you are speaking - but nonsense - the opposite is more likely true!!!
Drivetrain aside, I see the Azera and Genesis overlapping as much as Sonata and Azera, Camry and Avalon, ES and GS, etc etc The Genesis starts at the upper trim of the Azera, and as it should be (similarly for the rest of the lineup - Accent/Elantra, Elantra/Sonata, Sonata/Azera, Tuscon/Santa Fe, Santa Fe/Veracruz)
Mike
I have yet to see any specifications published by Hyundai that lists engine options for US model of Genesis.
I believe that much of this information is speculation by persons, like us, participating in forums or media.
I have seen different forums showing various pictures all claiming that they depict the final US production version.
I guess that we will know when Hyundai makes the official formal introduction.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/08/detroit-08-preview-2009-hyundai-genesis-shake- s-things-up/
3.8L V6: 290hp (regular) | ???hp (premium)
4.6L V8: 368hp (regular) | 375hp (premium)
Official media: http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2009_Models/Genesis/Press_Release.asp
As for dropping the Azera, I think the better solution is lies in the new luxury brand and separate dealer network. Make the Genesis, Veracruz and the new Genesis coupe to carry the luxury badge so the Azera and Santa Fe will have their rightful places under Hyundai.
Not a bad idea,(seperate dealers) but something Hyundai should have done long ago. (cart vs. horse)
Genesis competition must be licking their chops in anticipation:
1. Without a marketing plan, how will Hyundai lure potential buyers into the Hyundai showroom? With rebates and deep dealer price reductions?
2. Can Hyundai successfully launch Genesis without investing in training and upgrading both the sales / service departments? (3 engine choices for starters)
3. If a potential Genesis buyer does stumble in the dealers showroom, does their low-ball Sonata sales guru take charge and make the sale?
Considering the car is SUPPOSED to be coming out this year, I think it's safe to assume that the current pics that have been posted are final production pics. The only exception I can see being made is maybe a different grille treatment.
All you have to do is go back to some of the links that other posters have posted and read...you'll see what we are talking about.
So what's your point?
2. Again incorrect. Sales/service departments for majority of Hyundai dealers are good. Submit a complaint to consumer affairs and/or switch to another dealership if you are dis-satisfied.
3. stumble onto the dealers? How many units do you predict Hyundai would sell? 1? This isn't a volume unit, and it is not meant to be (if you haven't figured it out yet). I believe Hyundai is going to sell respective amounts, luxury cars sell in huge amounts anyway.
I hope you understand Jokes
That's like saying Nikki Helton is the responsible one between her and Paris...