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Personally, I feel both cars have a lot of potential for perspective buyers and it will boil down to what "type" of car fits a driver's personality. Those that like the Charger would more than likely look at the G8, those that prefer a 300...would look at the Genesis.
A base Chrysler 300 can be purchased for $22,000 after discounts. Now that's a blue collar price point.
Those buying a loaded Genesis will in fact be white collar, and whether there will be enough of them to make the car successful is certainly an open question. But it's an important distinction that whatever one uses as a yardstick for perceived or real luxury, the criteria is met by the size, amenities and styling of the Genesis.
When people discuss the apples and oranges comparisons between past Hyundai products to premium brands, everything from horsepower, styling, available options and the quality of materials told the tale. No, the XG350 wasn't a luxury car, let alone a Camry equal. No, the Vera Cruz is not in the same league as the Lexus.
But once you start accumulating Navigation systems with 8 inch screens, 370 HP V8's, heated and ventilated seats, automatic rear sunshades, active front headlights and back up cameras, not to mention a 500 watt 17 speaker lexicon sound system, it becomes a little more difficult to apply a wannabe moniker to the car.
The blandness of the design might matter if the Lexus 460, Acura RL or failed Infiniti Q weren't themselves anonymous designs. The sticking point is merely the name Hyundai, and, of course the way the car actually drives and performs when it's released.
If the cabin feel, power, suspension and quality of the vehicle actually approaches that of prestige nameplates when it's actually tested and driven, won't the Genesis be classified as a luxury vehicle? And doesn't the mere designation as such in CR, Edmunds and all of the car magazines make it so?
I think there's a bit of denial in dismissing what this car has to offer, and what its appeal will be to the car shopper who has money but no steadfast allegiance to brand.
How many of us know people with great means who drive around in an Avalon, 300C or MDX. I do. And those people could all be driving 460's, S500's and Cayenne's without dipping into their trusts.
I'm not saying that there are a limitless supply of these types of brand insensitive buyers. But if Hyundai only needs to sell 30,000 cars a year, don't be surprised if they succeed. And don't be surprised to see them pull up to the valet at the country club.
Based on your example, that would explain why the 300 is called the ghetto Bentley in these parts!!! You're also saying that the Azera, Maxima, Avalon and other cars in this segment are only attainable (in fully loaded, top of the line mode) to white-collar types.
A loaded top of the line Genesis is reportedly going to sell for less than $40K, why would you only see white-collar types in it? I'm far from white-collar and the other vehicle I own is a 2007 Outlook XR AWD.
I agree with what you're saying in some of the things that make a luxury car, a luxury car and the Genesis seemingly would hit the nail on the head based on reported features listed for the car. The argument that some are making is that while it will be a luxury car, it won't be the luxury that MB, Infiniti, Lexus or BMW offers you, but...it'll be more luxury than most cars can offer at the price point that the Genesis occupies.
- the answer is 'driving dynamics' which is an optimal combination of power/handling/braking together with things like balance and feel all tied together in a single car. BMWs almost always have such things (they are all 50-50 BTW), FWD cars in general and all the cars in this group, don't. Few people ever experience it to any degree and even fewer appreciate it. And those that truly do appreciate it - don't mind spending 60 large (or more) to get it.
To compare a LS (a relatively 'soft' car) which does have at least some reasonable driving dynamics to an Azera, which doesn't, is therefore a joke. We are talking about a completely different level of automobile here and not necessarily that the Azera is bad - it just is what it is - just like the other cars in this group are what they are.
And I'm not saying that an Azera, Maxima, Avalon and other cars aren't affordable to that group. My point was that there are people who can easily affford a LOT more car who choose to drive mid-price vehicles.
Also, a loaded Genesis will cost more than 40 grand.
And whoever happens to be driving around in a new 300 SRT8 with custom wheels and interior mods has an income in excess of blue collar wages, unless they're living in it.
It takes time, it takes a lot of time. Just like how Toyota went from junk to the brand it projects today, Hyundai has been working on the same thing. I would say with confidence Hyundai's mass revamp and commitment to the turn around is nothing short of amazing. The products speak for themselves.
Bottom line, Hyundai will have to continue the progress we see almost on a daily basis. The skepticism is still high, however, among the consumers, which is unfortunate. In that sense, no matter how great the product, how effective the marketing, it means nothing if there is no return, if consumers aren't even putting it on the shopping list in the first place. On the flip side, Toyota will sell boatloads of cars without any marketing, and that's where Hyundai should strive for.
It will take time but Hyundai's in the right direction and moving up amazingly fast.
According to a good source, a loaded Hyundai Genesis V8 will not reach more than $40K in the US. We'll see when pricing is annouced.
RE: G8 vs. Genesis, while I like both, the G8 is hardly comparable to the Genesis in terms of luxury/premium features, in the sense G8 falls well short. Navigation, bluetooth, memery seats are just the start of the ommissions. Still, this is not dis on the G8, but rather how amazing of a value the Genesis is. Someone challenged others in another forum to find a car that would offer so much for so little (which similar arguments can be made on other Hyundai products), he's right, no you really can't produce such vehicle for comparison.
D’oh! Ford execs compare Taurus, Homer Simpson
And that makes perfect sense. If you were a white collar customer you would have purchased a loaded Enclave. And don't tell me you liked the lines of the Outlook better. GM knows how to tap the appropriate consumer. You purchased the sensible vehicle that was a near twin to what is considered the more upscale version for practically the same money.
The Outlook felt comfortable and the Enclave seemed overdone. Those distinctions are what drive design, and segmenting to different classes of buyers.
Tell me about it! It was a criminal trial that lasted a WEEK! I almost lost my mind. My respect for the justice system was severely tested in ways that I never expected.
I was depressed for days after it was over.
Now...once again, NOBODY has compared the driving dynamics of the Azera to the LS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from??? :confuse:
A loaded Genesis will cost more than $40K AFTER financing.
Actually...it's not the SRT-8's you see a lot of that are rimmed up and modded out, it's the 300C. The SRT-8, fully loaded...starts out over $40K MSRP, so you figure once you load it up...it'll be just northward of $40K after you make your best deal. THAT...my friend is a jump above what the Genesis and the G8 will be going for. The Genesis and G8 are direct comeptitors with the 300 Touring/Charger SXT up to the 300C/Charger R/T...NOT the SRT-8 variants. The SRT-8 variants are pumping out in excesss of 400 hp.
As far as blue-collar types having a car such as a 300/Charger, Maxima, Avalon or Azera that has wheels and aftermarket mods...doesn't mean they have an income in excess of blue-collar wages, it just means they either work a 2nd job or have a side gig like myself. There are various levels of blue-collar workers from sanitation technicians all the way up to IT specialists. So when you say blue-collar workers that only owned cars that ranged from $15-22K...what line of work were they in? I have many blue-collar worker friends...one owns a 2003 Avalanche, 2007 Bug and a 2008 Jeep Wrangler. Another buddy owns a 2006 Ford Expedition and a 2005 Magnum R/T. Another one...owns a 2006 Impala LT and a 2005 Pacifica. Oh...and ALL are home owners as well.
It's ridiculous for you to make a statement of what certain types should be able to afford when you really don't know. You made the statement that they won't pay in excess of $40K for a car, on that I agree...and every car we've talked about in this forum, including the Genesis and G8 (in V-8 form) are included. The only ones that are excluded are the SRT-8 variants of any Mopar product.
It's already been stated by a Toyota insider that they are looking over their shoulder concerning Hyundai.
yep there is a extremely large coastal facility outside of Ulsan, Korea, that does everything from making pipe and other steel fabrications, car and ship manufacture etc. - employs many many people many of whom live in Co. built apartments on site. Been there - worked there.
FYI and only because it may also have something to do with Hyundai's position in the automobile business - Hyundai DID NOT take away the shipbuiilding business from the rest of the world - they BOUGHT it. The South Korean government back in the 70s and 80s SUBSIDIZED that industry they wished to be 'competitive 'in - and may still . Using a particular example I'm familiar with they were low bidder on a $100 million dollar shipyard type project by ONLY $50 million! But, you see, they didn't care at the time how much money they might be losing - they were learning ">to build ships and the government was covering any losses. This type of thing, in a multitude of industries, has been going on for many many years - the point really being that 'low bidders' aren't really selling anything - they are 'buying it' and quality has little to do with any buying decisions. Since then though, many of those ships are not built in Korea anymore (but rather in Europe and the US) simply because the ship buyers soon understood that the $50 million 'saved' wasn't 'saved' at all. Think there are likely some parallels here with the auto industry.
I laugh because I had an '87 Excel (4 dr. sedan). I bought it off a friend and when I got it, it had over 150K miles. Okay, stop laughing...seriously...the car was still running...and running well I might add. I did have to replace the transmission (a manual one at that). I paid a total of $500 for the part and labor to get it done. When the car was finally totalled, it had just over 230K miles on it. I was mad, I wanted to ship it to Hyundai's Hall of Fame! LOL
I actually bought that car out of necessity for something cheap to get me around at the time. The second time I bought Hyundai ('02 Sonata), it was out of need for a decent car for a good price. Having just totalled my '96 Camry...I was looking at the '02 Camry, but they wanted $23K for the one I wanted. A buddy of mine mentioned the Sonata, I hestitantly went to look at it...test drove it (had a similar feel to the Camry I just had). Sat at the table and the price for the Sonata, comparably equipped to the Camry I wanted...$16,800. It was kinda hard to walk away from that. I drove it with a skeptical attitude the 1st 6 months, but after that...it really made me forget all about the Camry I had grown to love. 4 years and 105K miles...I was left rather impressed with it. So when the Azera came out and I need a car with more room as my girls were now growing taller...the only skepticism I had was that it was a first model year car I was buying. I guess this is one case where buying the first year seemed to be the best move...so far. Maybe the '08 will see an upswing on it's reliablity ratings.
The Excel, perhaps unfortunately, had a 10 yr + run - is largely responsible for that Korean' car reputation that Hyundai/Kia fights every day. The Daewoos etc. didn't help that either. A very good 'white collar' friend of mine that views the automobile as an appliance and a 'necessary evil' has been driving an Elantra for a number of years now and although he doesn't accumulate many miles has not had any major problems with it TMK, only hardware falling off. The Elantra a vast improvement over those Excels. And yes, he could certainly afford to drive that 70k Lexus - if he wanted.
of course it will, FWIU MSRP for the V8 G8 is in the lower - mid 30's so therefore it should be substantially cheaper as well.. Imagine that, something 'cheaper' than a Hyundai - oops, I think you can buy a Taurus these days cheaper than an Azera. Maybe Hyundai is making some progress after all.
Any car which is not given proper preventive maintenance is bound to have problems and fail, regardless of manufacturer. You can't drive a Honda or Toyota for 200K without preventive maintenance. Conversely, an Excel could easily reach over 200K with proper maintenance.
Don't laugh at the South Korean manufacturers - to do so would be a grave mistake. Remember, Detroit, and most American consumers, first laughed at anything Japanese through the '50 and the '60s. For those of you with an electronics interest, which companies are leading the way in microcircuit designs these days - not the Japanese, but LG Electronics (Lucky-Goldstar) and Samsung from South Korea. In manufacturing circles, both LG and Samsung provide many of the components used in the latest designs.
It's my feeling the Genesis will change how auto consumers view Hyundai. It's just a gut feeling, but one honed on observing the domestic and import automobile market, and consumer's perceptions, since 1955.
IMO Hyundai needs to focus less on Azera and Genesis and much more on Sonata and Elantra. They are the volume models. Make people want the car, raise transaction prices (i.e. no rebates), then comes higher resale. At that point the Japan big 3 better look out.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
#1:
http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/Video_Clips/Super_Bowl_Ad_1/Video_2604.asp-
#2:
http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/Video_Clips/Super_Bowl_Ad_2/Video_2600.asp-
"Spacious as the Mercedes S-Class, yet priced like a C-Class."
"...we're pretty sure that Mercedes, BMW and Lexus aren't gonna like it very much."
"More spacious than a BMW 7-Series. Priced like a 3-Series."
So I guess they're saying, the Genesis is expected to perform like any of the above mentioned vehicles, right?
What's new?
What's new?
Wouldn't expect anything less...
Anyway, both ads are subtle, yet has the confident tone delivering the right message for the product. I especially like when Jeff Bridges says "right about now, you are probably expecting some big twists or something, well, here it is (cues the Hyundai logo). Get it? Get the twist?
From a marketing standpoint (and of course product), the substance is there and those ads get the mark.
This is exactly what I've been saying all along and is a ridiculous assumption on Hyundai's part. Those S and C class buyer, those 3 and 7 series buyers couldn't' give damn about something with a Hyundai badge - even if it is what Hyundai would like it to be. I've said before that it won't be able to sell this way, and Hyundai is seriously overestimating their public perceptions. It is still a 'Korean' car and that is not a good thing to be. I guess we'll see - those (2) 30 second ads likely set them back a few million - hope it sells enough cars to pay for it.
It is still a 'Korean' car and that is not a good thing to be.
Not everyone shares that opinion. How about all the Hyundai owners who took a chance and bought a Hyundai at some point over past 10 years? I don't regret it one bit, and I know I'm not alone.
There's no need to constantly preach negativity about something, unless one wants that "something" to fail.
It's called reality check.
When I do get a new car, I'll save thousands of dollars, again, by getting another Hyundai that I'll keep another 8+ years. Thank you very much.
The fact you believe you save money when you get your next car is as valid an opinion as someone who doesn't get a Hyundai and their belief is the money is well spent and they got what they paid for.
I have experience with high age, high mileage cars, and it's not pretty. I've driven in "like new" cars with a lot of mileage and was glad to escape with my life.
I just saw a news article that a 30 second ad in the game goes for $2.7 million.
I also read an article today that Fox is completely sold out of ads for the Superbowl and pre-game and that they are pulling in somewhere around $260 million! :surprise:
Video # 2, showing the logo H on the truck...big mistake and the kiss of death.
"big mistake and the kiss of death" - right :sick:
Did say that Hyundai does have a checkered past, however, and don't believe that can really be argued. Therein is the problem - people have long memories. Any company that happens to have a Korean name should be having trouble selling $40k automobiles (isn't this the reason for the Azera's slow sales @$30k stickers?) and especially when they have the 'Chutzpah' to be comparing that car to cars that have long been the best you can buy and do happen to cost twice or three times as much. Tell the world that the Genesis is a 'better' car or a 'better' value than a G8 or a 300 or even a Nissan/Toyota and maybe people listen. Putting it on the level as what these ads attempt to do is laughable, is too big a step up IMO - even if it proves to have some foundation.
And BTW as Hyundai, in this case, can start to accumulate more owners like you that have had good experiences then the faster this changes. In the immediate future, maybe those buyers of the 300 and G8s will 'discover' the Genesis and Hyundai will sell all they can make but there still won't be a whole lot of BMW/MB/Lexus/Infiniti owners (or shoppers) at Hyundai dealers.
Keep in mind, the general public is not as versed as we do in and about the automotive industry, so when they see the caliber of a car like the Genesis during the Super Bowl, they wouldn't expect it from Hyundai, and that's the "crazy big twist" referred to in the ad (which was very clever). It has to start somewhere, and for the Genesis, fittingly named also, is a new beginning to propel Hyundai in reach of new levels.
The car market is simply not ready to accept Hyundai as a 'premium' brand IMO and Hyundai does not have the same sort of market 'presence' as Toyota (or even Nissan) had back in the 80s which is why I believe that the Genesis will be a difficult 'sell'.
It is merely a reference used. Mercedes is one car company that is looked at as a top make in the industry and a lot of folks know about them. Almost everyone knows that the S-Class is the flagship and that they are sizable cars. They also know the C-Class is the entry level for Benz. So to say you can get a car with the size of an S-Class and only pay what you would for a C-Class...that's saying a lot.
Same thing using the 7 & 3-Series Beemers. It's merely a reference. Nobody is saying that potential Benz and Beemer buyers would give a damn. You my friend are looking and digging too deep in all this...seriously.
In any case, any successful effort that Hyundai might be able to make to improve its image is to the logical benefit of all Hyundai owners - if it works its called better resale values. Perhaps it should be you (somebody that invested in an Azera) that should be more interested in how these ads are perceived.
Interestingly I went over to the 'Luxury Lounge' forum and did a search for anybody talking about the Genesis or Hyundai - 10000 posts and 0 matches. That, should tell you something.
So what's your point, that the US version won't have the H on the trunk?
When I bought the first Honda 600 sedan sold east of the Mississippi, people thought I was absolutely and certifiably crazy. "Why would you buy such a piece of ****," they asked. My, how times have changed haven't they, where practically anything of Japanese manufacture is considered high quality. I knew that I had bought a decent vehicle at a great price, and could have cared less what people thought. The same was true a few years later I purchased a Civic CVCC. Great quality, and a low price.
Circa 2008, it's deja vu "all over again." Those who can see beyond image and perception, and Japanese vehicles' historical reliability record know they're getting a quality product at a very reasonable price with Hyundai, just as Honda and Toyota previously. Forget about the Excel, those days are in the far distant past both literally and figuratively in terms of build quality.
How many posters on this forum, or any Edmunds.com forum, consistently, and somewhat arrogantly, dismiss any and every Hyundai product as a sub-par product actually have owned one? And, more importantly from an objective comparative analysis point-of-view, how many negative Hyundai posters concurrently own a Hyundai, and any Japanese product? Our family owns a Honda, Hyundai, and a Toyota - all late models (Accord, Elantra, and Camry) respectively. The Hyundai has required fewer trips to the dealership for warranty issues than either the Honda or Toyota. And, moreover, the exterior seam and panel matching, and interior workmanship, is as good or better than either the Honda or Toyota.
For those who buy a Hyundai today, they're getting an excellent product at a below market level price. If you keep a vehicle for 10 to 15 years, the depreciation argument become less of a factor. As Hyundai's marketing says "Think About It." For example, think about all of the Honda automatic transmission problems posted on Edmunds.com, and compare those numbers with automatic transmission problems in Hyundai's. Although many have experienced transmission problems with their Honda's, including my brother with his Ody at less than 50K miles, it's most interesting that Honda owner's don't seem to complain. On the other hand, if a Hyundai experiences a transmission problem at any mileage level, everyone's ready to say "I told you not to buy a Korean piece of ****!"
I, for one, hope the mass market continues to view Hyundai as a sub-par product. It just means that I can continue to buy an excellent and high-quality product at far less than I would have to pay for a comparable Japanese brand.