Lincoln Navigator

navigator3740 · March 2003

could be some body cladding shaking, or an out of balance wheel...... Not that I'm admitting exceeding the speed limits, of course, but I'll probably try to detect such an issue sometime tomorrow - legally, of course.

tmeyer1 · March 2003

I have a '99 Navigator with 72,000 miles, and noticed that the right rear end sits 1/2 inch lower than the left. It has a noticeable "lean" to it. Has anyone else experienced this, or know what it might be? Thanks!

audia8q · March 2003

Do you notice this problem when the vehicle is parked and shut off or when its running?

tmeyer1 · March 2003

Well, I keep thinking I need to check that. I can feel the load leveling doing it's thing when I start it, so it may be only when it's off. Thanks for the reply.

navigator3740 · March 2003

Guess this response will be no help at all, but that never happened to my 99, in 65,000 miles.....

gumps · March 2003

One of the comments on this board mentioned having the o rings on the air conditioner go bad. I like the 03 nav and it APPEARS to be a great car but I have owned a Ford product before and swore I'd never own again. Has anyone had problems with their air conditioners, specifically with the o rings going bad. When that happens the compressor burns out after all the compressant leaks. That happened to me 3 times on a Ford Aerostar. After driving the 03 Navigator my sense is the air conditioning design hasn't changed because it still takes a long time for the cold air to come out.

navigator3740 · March 2003

Facinating question, tell you why:

First, I too owned an Aerostar, and it was hands down, the worse Ford I ever owned. Not the worst car, my Chevy Vega took that prize, but this Aerostar was just awful, and I was thrilled when my wife totalled it, even though it had new heads and new tires installed a month before the accident. So, I hear ya. The Aerostar could drive you to Toyota faster than anything, IMO.

I was the guy with the 0 ring comment on my 99 Navigator, and no other damage was caused. Maybe I caught it early enough, there was a green spot on the garage floor which tipped me off (R-134 is leak-detector ready), and the temp was fluctuating a bit inside. But the leak was fixed pronto, and it never gave me another issue.

I feel, I must state here, that Ford Factory Air is one of the things I like best about Ford products, as I live in the Southwest, and good air is essential here. I've driven most makes, and the Fords have satisfied me best in this area, Aerostar not withstanding, which had leaks we could never find. Most of the Fords I've had blow hard and blow cold. The 99 Navigator was no exception. Even in Black, the A/C was outstanding.

Now, here's the clincher that will probably make your decision easy. My 03 Navigator has goofy air, and I'm pretty hot (pun very intentional here) about it at this moment. It runs cold, then hot, then cold, etc., and cycles about every mile or so while driving. Having been told the first time I inquired that, "this system is different than your old one, sir", I decided to wait until the weather warmed up to see if in fact, it was my imagination. Yesterday, it got into the 80s, and it sure as hell is different than the old one, it's not cold, and I'm not cool. Took it back in yesterday, got the service adviser to ride with me and witness the strange phenomenon, which I assumed was low refrigerant. Went home in a Hertz Taurus, dealers cost. Got the car back today, diagnosed, but unfixed.

The problem is a stuck, or hanging up expansion valve, which of course, they have to order. Could take up to 2 weeks. They asked me if I wanted the car back, or to stay in the Taurus. I picked up my car. If they think I'm going to stay in the Taurus, fine utilitarian car that it is for 2 weeks, they're wrong. They'll call me when the part is in, and I'll be sort of cool for a while. In August, I would have made a different decision. But I digress....

Sorry for the ramble. I'm quite sure you'll steer clear of the Navigator after hearing this. Not sure I blame you. All I can say in summary is, I've had a lot of Ford products over the years, and I have had a couple of stinkers, but most of them have treated me very well. And it's really rare that the A/C is the problem, even on the couple of bad ones. Having said that, I may be re-writing history as we speak, who knows? Give me a few weeks, and I can update you. Other than this irritating issue, I really like the new Nav, as I really liked the old one.

audia8q · March 2003

if the leaning is only slight and only happens when the Navi is turned off...then its normal. Just the air bleeding from the air suspension.

We have a few used ones and they lean a little when not running. I also confirmed this with one of our Lincoln tech's.

If it does not level off once the navi has been running for a minute or so...then you might have a problem which should be looked at..

sbmicp · March 2003

Took delivery of my 03 Ultimate Package in November of last year and am starting to feel a slight vibration in the wheel with acceleration or very rough road. Nothing major, but just enough to drive me crazy and the dealer "unable to reproduce." Otherwise I am in love, but would love to get to the bottom of this one. I know it was not there 1000 miles ago but its slight enough that I can not put an exact event or time to it. I just cleared 5,000 miles and the dealer said the tire pressure was a bit off, did not matter its still there.

navigator3740 · March 2003

I have noticed a huge difference between my 03 and my 99 in the steering. The new one is rack & pinion, the old was reciprocating ball, and they are light night and day, of course. But when I hit the driveway, I get a slight shudder I never got in the old one. It doesn't bug me, but I guess I'm just saying, it's different. So, on your problem, and potentially mine later one, it will likely get worse so the dealer can "produce" it.... Stuff like that is tough for them, since they don't live in the car. I usually take the service advisor with me, make them drive it, and produce it for them. Then, at least I have an advocate. I also tell them not to call me until they have found "something" and fixed it. I don't mind multiple tries, I do mind "checked ok", when it's not ok.

navigator3740 · March 2003

I violated my own cardinal rule in buying this truck now. I always wait for the second year, and intended to...but somebody desperately wanted to buy my 99 for way too much money, and I let them. So I needed a car. I suspect I'll pay for it with aggravations like yours, sbm......

sethd · April 2003

Why get the navigtor over the expedition eddie bauer. Are there any safety differences?

I noticed different cargo volume specs as well, is there really a diference?

And what do you think of the Seqoia?

Thanks.

gteach26 · April 2003

Some little darling gave me a nice key job on my silver 03 gator. The scratch goes from my rear driver side door to the rear panel under the vent windows. I'm not sure when it happened but I just noticed it today. The scratch is pretty deep so I'm guessing the door and the rear panel will have to be completely re painted. Anybody have a clue as to what kind of $$ am I looking at for a dealer body shop fix? Why are some people so.... yuck.

gteach26 · April 2003

bucks... that's what it will cost to get this key scratch off my truck at the dealer. Since it happened at work my employer's covering my $500 insurance deductible so I'm "only" out $230. I'm sure I could get another non-ford body shop do it cheaper but I'd rather not risk a poor paint job. To the moron who did this, remember... what goes around comes around!! Sooner or later your deeds will come back to haunt you. BRUHAHAHAHA!!!!

navigator3740 · April 2003

There are a lot of little nuance upgrades between the Navigator and the EB Expedition. I've driven both, and it's a matter of interior design to me. I really don't like the new Expedition interior design. Looks funky to me, whereas, I LOVE the Navigator interior design, enough to pay the extra bucks. Beyond that, you get the 4V engine in the Navigator, more HP, and a wood steering wheel. On the Sequoia, although I've been flamed for suggesting it before, I remain unchanged in my opinion. I drove one. It's underpowered, and very plain looking inside and out INHO. I was not impressed. I'm sure it's a great truck, maybe better than my Lincoln, but it's not attractive to me, and that matters.

navigator3740 · April 2003

I can really relate. In 92, I bought a new Continental, a gold one. In the first 2 weeks, somebody shot acid up the whole passenger side of it. It was quite the fad here 10 years ago. Had to get that side repainted, and it never matched. Kept the car 4.3 years, and mourned over that every day. Doubt that will make you feel better, but I feel your pain, brother.....

jlp8885 · April 2003

I-17 from Loop 101 to End (Flagstaff) and back
75-80 mph both ways
going up, locked out of o/d multiple times
min rpm- 2500 (cruise)
max rpm- 4100 (long climb)
going down, locked out of o/d once
min rpm- 2200 (descent)
max rpm- 4000 (brief climb)

going up- 22 mpg
going down- 32 mpg

400lb of passengers
150lb of cargo (trunk)
Altima 2.5S

engine has 7500 miles on it

check out coming back
hows your mileage?

auburn96 · April 2003

Has anyone removed the rear seat center floor console between the captain chairs from their Navigator? Specifically in the 03 model year?

stever · April 2003

2003 Large Luxury SUV Comparison Test

Steve, Host

gteach26 · April 2003

First: the key scratch saga is over!! Instead of $740 bucks, the repair came to "only" $530 because some of the panels they thought would have to be removed did not have to come out. The entire process took less than two days and the truck was returned to me in immaculate condition. If anyone in South FLA, needs a good body shop check out World Ford in Pembroke Pines. I have had work done there twice and both times the service has been a cut above. They can be on the expensive side but I think it is worth it.

Second: Something sounds fishy about the the just-published Edmunds lux SUV comparison. The ESCALADE at #1? I can certainly live with the LX470 topping all others but the Cadi just doesn't seem to cut it in my eyes. It may have a bit more power (The 4X2 has considerably less though) but that is it. Also: the navigator tested had the old cd-rom navigation system -- new Navigators now come with a state of the art voice activated DVD system -- that should have been noted in the article. Also, at one point the author stated that the LX470 has HID's -- it does not. Also, one of the testers noted that they did not like how the rear DVD system screen blocked the view in the rear view mirror. Unless you get an after market system with the screens on the headrests don't ALL factory rear entertainment systems block the view when the screen folds down? I know it does on the LX.

I agree that in terms of overall refinement, quality feel, and reliability, the LX 470 is still ahead (slightly) of the Navigator. In terms of features, room, and "bang-for-the-buck" the Navigator blows all of the others out of the water - and again, the ESCALADE at # 1??? Something just doesn't feel right about that. Perhaps I'm just blinded by the outdated, low grade-feel interior of that truck. I still say give me the features and room of a navigator with the quality-feel, smooth ride, and refinement of the LX470 and I am in LUX SUV heaven!!!

Just my 1.5 cents. I'd be curious to see what other navigator owners thought about that article.

auburn96 · April 2003

Has anyone installed brake dust covers on their 03 Navi? Any opinions?

How about rear seat mats? Anybody bought any for the 3rd row seats?

03 Ultimate 4x2 owner

stever · April 2003

Lincoln Navigator K (Edmunds New York Auto Show coverage)

Steve, Host

gteach26 · April 2003

More horsepower will surely make people happy.
I think the current 300 Horses are fine for me. Also, even though I'm sure I am in the minority on this view,I think those rims are a bit too "yo homey wuz ahh" for my tastes.

Also:

That Nissan Pathfinder Armada looks like a real Expedition fighter... Infinity's QX56 (this truck's lux twin) due out later this year or early next year just might give my Navigator a run for the money during lease renewal time.

e350v10 · April 2003

I read in Truck Trend (I think) that there are about a dozen Navigator V-10s running around Dearborn for testing.

Towing at altitude can be a challenge for the Navigator, so I think more power is a must, especially when compared to the GM products.

koury · April 2003

Just purchased a '03 Ultimate and one of the first things I noticed is that the up/down buttons for the folding rear seats that are next to the second row passenger seat were missing. When I pointed it out to my sales rep, he was surprised. After looking it up on their system, he told me that Lincoln decided to remove those buttons, leaving only the buttoms at the rear of the car.

Anyone else hear the same thing?

auburn96 · April 2003

I have a 01 03 build Ult 4x2. I have the buttons for the power fold down seats in the cabin as well as in the rear of the vehicle.

ingeniousguy · April 2003

Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum but I wanted to bounce a few questions off of you. Also, I apologize in advance for such a long post <SMILE>.

I am a former 2002 GMC Envoy SLT owner and ended up selling it several months ago due to the ongoing problems that plagued the first model year of this vehicle. Immediately after selling the Envoy, I placed an order for a 2003 GMC Yukon Denali (since I loved my dad's 2002 model so much). After careful consideration, I decided to cancel the Denali order and save my "duckies" so that maybe I could consider a 2004 model SUV.

With all of the APR specials going on, I've been getting the "itch" to move forward on purchasing my next SUV. Thus far, I am really torn between the Cadillac Escalade (being able to take advantage of my father's GM employee discount) and the Lincoln Navigator (possibly at invoice pricing), but more so leaning towards the Navigator due to its more luxurious (and not overly flashy) looking exterior and attention to detail. For instance, I love how the wheels fit the wheel wells without looking gawdy (whereas the Caddy's wheels look too small and you can see the entire wheel well..ick) and I also like the solid "THUNK" of the exterior panels as opposed to the Caddy's "TINK" sound! Different sheet metal or usage of fiberglass perhaps??

I've been to two Lincoln dealerships thus far pretending that I didn't know anything about the vehicle because I wanted to hear the sales pitch and take long test drives. Just for reassurance, I will hit another dealership just to get a third opinion and hope to cure my worries about the "not so brisk" acceleration.

If I purchase the Navigator, the vehicle will be equipped with EVERY option which hopefully includes the following:

* Navigator ULTIMATE 4x4 Package
* Power Moonroof
* Power Deployable Runningboards
* Rear Entertainment System
* DVD Based Navigation System
* Tire Pressure Monitoring System
* Chrome Wheels

Ok.. with that being said, here are the questions:

#1. Does anyone have the Tire Pressure Monitoring System on their Navi and if they do, does it show each individual tire's pressure on the dash? Also, is it available yet? I've heard yes and no from dealers.

#2. During my test drive, I noticed the driver or passenger mirrors will do "curb-view" when the vehicle is engaged in reverse. My Envoy would allow you to "fine-tune" the reversing mirrors so that you could see the curb at your own setting. Will the Navigator allow you to do this as well? I was really not able to get a good view of the curb while in reverse mode, but my sales people were clueless?? In other words, the curb view doesn't really give me a curb view!!

#3. Will the Rear Seat Entertainment system allow you to project the sound through the cabin speakers instead of using the headphones?

#4. Can you fine-tune the "Easy Exit" seat to exit in the manner that you choose? I particularly liked this feature in my Envoy because I could have it go to the floor and NOT slide back. I adjusted the seat setting and then pushed the "Easy Exit" seat button to lock in my selection.

#5. Can you program your automatic headlight exit delay time? (i.e. 10,20,30,40 second intervals)

#6. Is the driver's side exterior mirror electrochromatic with the inside rear view mirror?

#7. Have anyone heard of proposed changes for the 2004 model?

#8. In a nutshell, is there any particular problems that I should be aware of IF I purchase a Navigator with a post-April build date? I say post-April because I am looking for one that has the new touch-screen DVD based navigation system.

#9. Any worries or know issues about the power running boards or power lift gate?

I must admit, my 2002 Envoy came with some pretty "cutting edge" features that have spoiled me. I really liked how GM took a feature and personalized it in every way, making it much more adaptable to the owners (i.e. tilt-down mirrors to your specs, Easy Exit seat preference... just to name a few) and I am hoping that the Navi will perform similar functions. From my quick test drives, it seems as if the programmable features are somewhat generic in terms of preference (i.e. Yes/No, On/Off).

I've looked at the 2003 Denalis and Escalades and they've pretty much inherited the 2002 Envoy's dash and technological features that I like so much, but I really want to look outside of the General this time around. Also, just for the record, I am looking at the vehicle for myself, I am a single guy with no children. Any assistance that you all could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for reading this!

Sincerely,

Ingenious Guy

PS: Just for the record, other vehicles that I have considered:

#1. Infiniti FX 45 -- Too hard of a ride, no interior room.. Looks like a PT Cruiser on steriods.. kinda cool though, but for my $50K+, I want a TRUE SUV with room for a new washer and dryer if I needed to bring it home from SEARS! Oh.. most important, got it STUCK in snow during the test drive WITH the salesguy along for the ride! I was apalled!!!! But.. thank goodness the ATV dealership was open, and came to our rescue with ATV's to get us out!!

#2. Volvo XC 90 SUV -- Hmm... too much Turbo lag and basically gizmo DEAD. Although safe for those with kiddies!

#3. Mercedes Benz M-500 -- Ok.. looks better now.. lots of cool stuff, kinda a third choice thus far. Torque rich V-8, cool German Engineering features, somewhat aging platform. Loaded @ $52K! Cool..
But.. no special incentives (no 0%, 1.9, etc.).

e350v10 · April 2003

If size isn't an issue, you might take a look at the Lincoln Aviator, and save yourself $10K. The same 60 month 0% incentives apply.

You get 302hp, most all of the bells & whistles (automatic running boards, hatch, and rear seat are not available on the Aviator, but DVD, Navigation, heated and cooled seats, HID, etc. are), and the same seating capacity as your Envoy.

gteach26 · April 2003

For #3 (Playing DVD's though the car speakers): Yes it is possible. I'm sick of hearing "Elmo's World" and Barney singing "I love you" while the DVD plays. My 17 month old daughter doesn't like to keep the head phones on YET.. but I'm working on it! As for #5 (Programming the delay of the lights) you can do it through the information center on the dash board. Mine is set to 20 seconds and it gives me plenty of time.

Here is a link to the 2003 Navigator owners manual.. it should answer any other questions you might have.

https://web.msslib2.dealerconnection.com/RightSite/getcontent/myf- ile.pdf?DMW_OBJECTID=09000c588037e84c

I think you will like the 03 Ultimate.. I have one and it has been pretty special so far. Some of these trucks can have their issues (just like any brand) but if you pick a good dealer they'll make the bumps feel a lot smoother.

Good Luck!!

e350v10 · April 2003

If size isn't an issue, you might take a look at the Lincoln Aviator, and save yourself $10K. The same 60 month 0% incentives apply.

You get 302hp, most all of the bells & whistles (automatic running boards, hatch, and rear seat are not available on the Aviator, but DVD, Navigation, heated and cooled seats, HID, etc. are), and the same seating capacity as your Envoy.

auburn96 · April 2003

Maybe you know more than I do...but the Navigation system is CD Rom Based not DVD at least that is what my Navi has in it? Anyone know differently?

audia8q · April 2003

The Navigator currently has a DVD based navigation system....This was a mid year change. The first navigation sytems were CD based....

If you had a Job1 navigator you got the CD based system with multiple CD's. If you got a mid year (job2) navi you have a single disc DVD system.

gteach26 · April 2003

The new DVD Navigation system is pretty much the same one Lexus equips their cars with. It looks pretty neat based on the instruction manual. I have the old CD-rom system and while not as pretty or fast, it is very functional and I like the fact that the radio preset buttons are NOT integrated into the navigation system like they are now on the touchscreen DVD system. This integration is an annoying feature in my wife's Rx 300 nav system. One great feature of the new system though is that the CD changer is located behind the Nav screen NOT in the unreachable passenger side floor console like with the CD-ROM system.

By the way, I was just curious and asked my dealer what it would cost to swap the old navigation system for the new and they quoted $2500. Since I'm on a short term lease I'm not going to spend the bucks now and will just wait for my next gator -- if that's what I get.

auburn96 · April 2003

When exactly did this change. I have a 1/03 build date and have the old CD based Navi system...?

gteach26 · April 2003

The new DVD navigation system started arriving in dealerships around late March/early April. I'm sure a Ford person on this site could give more specifics on dates. I bought my Navigator in January (December 2002 build date) and was given the choice of either waiting for the DVD navigation system (via factory order)or taking a truck from the lot with the old Nav system PLUS power running boards, rear entertainment system, moonroof and chrome wheels. I took the one on the lot with all the other toys.

The CD-based navigation system has been pretty good (at least as good as the Lexus system on my wife's car) and I do not travel out of state so multiple cd's are not a problem for me. The main reason I would prefer the newer system is to get the front loading CD changer on the dashboard and not in "no-man's" land on the lower passenger-side foot well.

auburn96 · April 2003

Well I do not know what the great advantage to the DVD based Navi is other than having one disc as opposed to several. I do not travel much from my region so I can keep one disc in all the time. Is the DVD supposed to have more data per city than the CD? Can't you upgrade the CD based system though, but buying new CDs? Can you do this with the DVD?

gteach26 · April 2003

IMO has better graphics, runs a bit quicker and allows for CD changer (in the Navigator) to be placed in the dash. Also, the DVD system has voice activated features whereas the CD system does not.

Navigation CD updates can be bought at Navtech.com so yes, they are upgradeable. DVD's are also upgradeable (don't know that company though). Having used both CD (Lincoln) and DVD (Lexus) based systems I prefer the DVD system EXCEPT for the fact that that the radio station preset buttons are integrated into the touchscreen and not separate buttons like on the CD system.

dougn1 · April 2003

hi was wondering if the ribs ( pleats ) in the front seats bother anyone else ? i just bought 03 ultimate ( had 00 gator ) and during test drive didnt notice them bought on mine starting to annoy my backm a little after driving this first week with it , Otherwise vehicle is fantastic. if anyone else notices this or is bothered by this would you please make a comment thanks so much!

auburn96 · April 2003

Anybody have this problem or advice with their 03 Navi with entertainment center?
To get the DVD to start playing from the front seat I use the media button the steering wheel (this is the only way right?), but sometimes hitting the media button won't go to the DVD. I will go through the FM, FM2, AM, CD, but not DVD even though a DVD is present, so I have to eject the DVD and reinsert it to get it to play which is a pain?? Anybody have this problem?

navigator3740 · April 2003

Have to say, dougn, that I haven't noticed this problem. I use the lumbar heavily too. I think the seats are fabulous, and one of the features I rank very highly on the importance scale..... Sorry....

navigator3740 · May 2003

Visited the dealer today, and yes, an engineering change sometime in the last few months, removed that second set of seat buttons, which is a bummer, and something I would hate to do without. They did, however, add another set of tweeters to the A pillar for the stereo that mine doesn't have. Grrrrrrr. That's bound to be an improvement, however, the button loss is a bad move on their part.

lani5 · May 2003

Has any 2003 Lincoln Nav owner experienced any problems with closing the power rear liftgate either via the key remote or overhead control? For the past two months of ownership of this beautiful vehicle, I have had intermittent problems with closing the rear liftgate. It either closes as it should or it goes down a quarter of the way (sometimes 3/4 of the way) and then goes back up as if it senses something in the way. I have to engage the key remote or overhead control at least 5 times (with a reasonable wait time in between, and using the same method as opening) before it finally settles down and closes properly. This is so frustrating.

Before I took ownership in March 2003, the rear liftgate motor had to be replaced as the rear liftgate didn't even open at all. Should have known then not to choose this car on the lot, but it was the 4x2 Ultimate package, black on black, very nice.

In the past two months, I've been to the service department 5 times; each time the service manager has not been able to duplicate the problem. My husband even showed him and his technicians the very recent videotape I filmed of just this problem --- clear as can be.

Was told that since they didn't see the problem first-hand, I had to go along with what Ford Motor Co.'s customer service representative said I had to do --- document each time the problem arose, listing the time and location. However, no one could tell me how long of a documentation was needed for the problem to be "accepted" and, therefore, be covered under warranty.

Does anyone have any advice? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

lani5 · May 2003

To auburn96, yes, I also have the same problem you have when accessing the DVD player on my 03 Nav. I cannot get it to start by using the media button. I have to eject the DVD and reinsert it to play, too. Been having power rear liftgate problems so I have had to shelve this other issue for now. Perhaps someone will have a solution?

navigator3740 · May 2003

It is difficult for the service department to deal with phantom issues. It's not that they don't believe us, but if it can't be demonstrated, it's hard to identify what's wrong, and Ford won't pay for it. I usually wait until it gets bad enough to demonstrate reliably, or will leave the car until they can get it to do it. Example: Once I had a Continental that made a "funny noise" under the hood, but you could only hear it inside the car, not under the hood. It was intermittant too. I've bought enough cars at this dealership that I was able to convince them to give me a loaner, and have the service manager drive my car until he heard it. 3 days later, he heard it, stopped the car immediately, and found it was a defective throttle cable vibrating.

Admittedly, you need some cooperation from the service department, but depending on how often this happens, I'd press it. You don't pay $55M for a car, and tolerate annoying problems like that. At least, I don't. So far, in over a decade of Lincolns, I've always won, and rarely have had to be nasty about it. If all this fails, call Lincoln. They need to put a new motor in and try that. Good luck!

lani5 · May 2003

Thank you for your thoughtful suggestion. Yes, I will definitely press on in spite of this, as you appropriately tagged, phantom issue. What is frustrating is the fact that the original motor was already replaced and this new one aces all their computer diagnostic tools. No code errors determined by computer; hence, no problem.

Can't seem to understand why the service manager would not accept a non-digital videotape (with over 20 liftgate malfunctions filmed) of the problem. He had thought it was a good idea in the first place! In your experience, does videotaping have any value as proof that this problem exists?

nvbanker · May 2003

Well, it will help you in court! You might want to mention that to the Service Mgr, General Mgr, and the Lincoln Hot Line if it goes that far. And don't let them have the only copy.

You make a good point about the computer diagnostics though, and they do have a problem there. No error codes generally means, Ford won't pay for them to go exploring for problems. It's the manufacturers way of stopping some dealer fraud. An error code gives authorization to repair. Otherwise, a lot of paperwork has to go in to justify the repair. But keep trying. Don't give up! You may need to demand a factory rep look at the car. I'd be marching into the General Manager's office by now.....with a copy of the video tape. What's your lemon law in that state?

lani5 · May 2003

Thank you for your support, nvbanker. As of this afternoon, the dealer's Parts and Service Director has finally agreed to arrange for a Field Service Engineer (FSE), who is supposedly the technical guru about Navigators, to take a look at my car and the videotape to determine the cause of the problem.

I've also contacted the Lincoln Hot Line five times now --- each time my concerns have been documented. Got to the point where the supervisor there gave me his direct line and said he will monitor my situation and make sure the dealership and its service dept. go out of their way to make sure this problem gets resolved accordingly. He certainly viewed my videotape as a logical step and was surprised that the service manager didn't do anything more after seeing the tape. I say, an inch towards progress.

Yes, the lemon law in California certainly applies to this situation. We'll see if the FSE can pinpoint a solution to this perplexing problem before I go this route. Good point in bringing this up.

Patience (plus doggone, teeth-in-the pantleg determination) is the key here, isn't it?

Thank you again!

navigator3740 · May 2003

Now, you're getting somewhere. I have a friend who had an Excursion that pulled to the left when the brakes were applied. Ford dealer replaced pretty much the whole front end, and couldn't get it to stop doing it. They bought the car back for research and she got to pick out a new one off the lot, and the car was over a year old a the time. I was impressed! Your problem isn't safety related, but my experience with Ford of late is they want their customers to be happy, even if the dealer doesn't show it.

auburn96 · May 2003

Let us know what is finally the diagnosis to your lift gate problem. I haven't noticed any problem with the lift gate until today when the gate almost to the bottom and then started going up again I hit the button and it immediately came back down and latched. I know in the past I learned that if it is not closed all the way when you put the Navi in gear it opens, but this was not the case this time.

lani5 · May 2003

You're right, navigator3740. Ford should want to keep its customers happy. It seems my problem is generating interest from Lincoln Mercury people. Just today I received a full-length survey on my experiences with the customer service representatives who have documented my car's liftgate problem and with the dealership who failed to provide the kind of customer service it's been touting to the public. They're going to get an earful all right.

This Lincoln dealership is brand new, too--- just opened two months. You would think its top brass down to their service managers would want to establish a good rapport with us Lincoln owners and ensure we have a great experience with their vehicles. The only person in that dealership who showed any class was Jose, the shuttle driver.

We'll keep our fingers crossed for a positive outcome.

Lincoln Navigator

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