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Yep, guilty as charged - hard not to when you drive one every day. BTW if you did some research you would find out that the Avalon is actually one of the LEAST expensive cars in this group - something about cheap now = cheap later :P
I would never buy a car like that...
Do you know who is the previous owner? Was the car used as the dealer courtesy car before?
Wish us luck. If not the Taurus, it'll likely be a Civic or Accord LX.
Putting 50k miles on in 2 years by yourself and 20k miles in 9 months by others are two completely different things psychologically.
They haven't written the choice off completely, but if they can get a new basic Taurus for $20k vs. the used Taurus with Leather and the convenience package for $19k, they'll go new.
That will be the deal breaker for me right there.
Given on how I treated those rental cars and courtesy cars from my dealership there is no way that I'll ever consider one. :P
And I thought I was the only one that was "a little hard" on the rentals!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
An update on the car-sales:
Latest quote: Taurus SEL, Convenience Package, Leather, Sync
MSRP $26,615
OTD Quote $22,000 (taxes are a little over $900)
That's really making mom and dad happy, and they may just pay more down to get the new car well-equipped, with such a good deal.
Another dealer offered base SEL Tauruses with no options for $20,000 + tax (amounting to near $20,900). The better-equipped one is actually the better deal. Approximately $2,300 worth of extra equipment for only $1,100 more than the base model at the competing dealership.
OTD Quote $22,000 (taxes are a little over $900)
Nothing at all to complain about with that deal IMO.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I am capable of understanding the concept of depreciation, thank you very much. Of course, if you keep your cars past 140,000 miles as I do, the numbers don't play out exactly as you suggest.
Baptized in oil? Save the souls of those robots, please.
true enough - but also something that would put you in the minority amongst new car buyers.
Sure, resale won't be as good as a Honda, but if the car is good, I don't see them wanting to get another car anytime soon.
When gas hits $8/gallon?
:sick: :sick: :sick:
gas at $4 has people lined up for miles to get rid of those big honking SUVS that thet spent so much for just a few years back. Wouldn't want to have to be trading in a 05-06 $40k Tahoe right now!
$8 may have us all in econoboxes, hybrids, diesels, or something equally as unexciting
Now I can fill up my car for less than $50, as long as I do it before letting the low-fuel light come on! Whoo hoo!
C'mon Buick, why are you telling on yourself?
If they had the capacity, I wonder if Buick wouldn't just put the corporate 3.6L in there, tune it to 275hp/251lb-ft like in the Enclave, and let 'er go.
But even if FE wasn't up to snuff think of the money you'll save financing on at 0% for 6 years! What more will the General do to sell cars?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Something that all don't offer but Ford happens to (I recently learned) is free roadside assitance for a period of time.
van
On the topic of Avalon being cheaper to own - not the case according to Edmunds. They take resale into account, and depending how much better/worse you can do on purchase price, it's possible to make heavily rebated cars really cheap to own. Another factor in my world is that my car is financed, so even if two cars both depreciated $10k in two years, the car with the lower starting price would be cheaper for me to own. I would be paying interest on a lower amount the entire time. I like Avalons, but not enough to pay significantly more than the Taurus I now enjoy. And the engine isn't THAT different, BTW. There's a lot of hype around Toyota that isn't necessarily justified. I come from London, and while Toyotas are well regarded there, they don't enjoy the same divine reputation they have here.
Take it up to 4 or even 5,000 RPM and tell me that. Not something that you do often, however, it shows the level of refinement that the Toyota engine has. Also, its willingness to rev is outstanding. IMO the 2GR may be the best V6 out there right now.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
And there is a lot of hype that is very justified.
Enjoyable to drive is a subjective quality. I think that my Avalon is VERY enjoyable to drive. Smooth and quiet, power to put you back in your seat and just enough handling to have a little fun. Is it a track car? Hell no... will it understeer every time.. Yes. As for some other Yotas, have you driven a Camry SE? Just tightened up enough to enhance the handling but has a compliant ride. To each his own I guess.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
A series of marginal cars from Toyota I've driven have really turned me off of them; at least for now.
Different strokes for different folks indeed, I know.
MT said that the Camry SE actually has harder suspension than Accord. Go figure...
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Maybe that's because you aren't driving the right ones. Sounds to me like you are putting down your own judgment regarding "fun to drive" on Toyota based on the Camry (luxurious and soft model), Corolla and a SUV? Good god...
Here are some of the models you should try and see if Toyota is indeed that "dull":
Scion tC (you'd be surprised)
Camry SE V6
FJ Cruiser (take it off road)
IS250 with manual tranny (if you are into shift-yourself)
IS350
IS F (this is a must)
All the Toyota/Lexus hybrid models (a different kind of "fun to drive")
Scion tC (you'd be surprised)
Camry SE V6
FJ Cruiser (take it off road)
IS250 with manual tranny (if you are into shift-yourself)
IS350
IS F (this is a must)
All the Toyota/Lexus hybrid models (a different kind of "fun to drive")
Can't fit in the IS Lexus, so that's out. (I'm 6'5")
Now you're down to the Camry SE-V6, which I would like to drive (but the person who owned the car I rode in I happen to work for, so I didn't ask ).
FJ Cruiser? No need for off-road driving; I want on-road fun without too much of a mileage penalty, anyway.
Scion tC? I'm glad you reminded me of that one; I looked at it when I was 17, and thought it had been over-hyped (at the time). I'm not the only one, several reviews have cited the lack of fun and the numb steering. Just a forgettable car.
Sounds to me like you are putting down your own judgment regarding "fun to drive" on Toyota based on the Camry (luxurious and soft model), Corolla and a SUV? Good god...
Why is that a problem?
I certainly am, although I explicitly said I didn't expect the SUV to be fun to drive, I was just commenting that the quality seemed lacking with squeaks/rattles in a LEXUS. My driving-fun statement is based on my Corolla/Camry experiences.
I've driven Camry and Corolla competitors that are lots of fun (Accord, Civic, any Mazda). Toyota could do it too, they just don't. They appeal to a different customer, so that's fine with me. But yes, I am whole-heartedly judging Toyota's fun-factor on its bread-and-butter cars just like I do with the other companies, because those are the ones I'll buy for myself. Now that I think about it, the Camry I drove was a V6, but I think it was the LE V6 (more in my price range anyway). It didn't have leather, that was the SE-V6 in which I only got to ride.
Anyway, not one of these cars is on topic, so I'll try and guide us back.
My folks are planning on purchasing their new car on Saturday. It is a brand new 2008 Taurus, Silver Birch over Stone Leather, the convenience package (Dual Auto Climate Controls, Auto Headlamps, 6CD Upgraded Sound System, Sirius Sat Radio), and Sync. Out-the-door will be $22k. They're pretty excited about the deal, as this was the first offer I received via internet from my local dealer. It's worth them coming home for, since their dealer on the coast wouldn't come below $24k OTD.
No one is telling you to live with it but since you are talking about "fun to drive" how can you not try the brand's sportiest models (IS F and IS350) before slap a DULL sign on it face? :confuse:
I am 6'1" with super long thighs (almost 1/3 of my total height) and my seat isn't all the way back yet. I am sure you'll be fine driving it (again, not live with it) with the seat all the way back.
Oh by the way, if Jeremy Clarkson can fit in an IS then you can too...
Attempted it at the car-show - wasn't a fit for me. TRUST ME.
Oh by the way, if Jeremy Clarkson can fit in an IS then you can too...
Um, no, I can't. :mad:
BUT, if a $28k Taurus starts selling for $21k (or whatever) it is also true that those folks that bought the car for more than that are gonna take a hit on their resale values, minimizing the effect of those rebates on the 'cost-to own'. On the other side of the coin, if the Toyota (in this case) continues to sell well at some number closer to window sticker, it makes for a stable vehicle value now and later and likely a lower cost to own. Simple economics and not rocket science - but as a rule: cheap now = cheap later - and vice versa
I see what you're saying, I'm just explaining why that didn't necessarily work here. It wasn't an option.
I was curious and did a TCO of the Avalon XL and Taurus SEL - here's what I came up with. After five years:
Depreciation $14,828
Financing $4,488
Insurance $8,689
Taxes & Fees $3,650
Fuel $12,938
Maintenance $3,976
Repairs $665
TOTAL
$49,234
For the Taurus, 5 years:
Depreciation $14,519
Financing $4,047
Insurance $6,805
Taxes & Fees $3,305
Fuel $13,251
Maintenance $3,214
Repairs $794
TOTAL
$45,935
So, based on our friend the captain's little tool, the TCO here on Edmunds, the Taurus is cheaper to own over 5 years to the tune of about $3,300. Something my parents noticed was the fact that insurance on the Taurus is insanely cheap. That is reflected here as well.
EDIT: Sorry Pat, hopefully this post is back on track.