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What needs to happen next is for the Parts and Service Director to call back today with news that he has secured an appointment with the field service engineer. We'll see then if Lincoln actually follows through on its commitment to service.
They are being very nice about it, but inept at fixing it.
I HAVE HAD MY GATOR SINCE OCT 2002. LAST WEEK I STARTED THE TRUCK PRESSED THE BRAKE AND TRIED TO PRESS THE GEAR SHIFT KNOB TO PUT THE TRUCK IN DRIVE. ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THE GEAR SHIFT BUTTON WOULD NOT DEPRESS SO I COULD MOVE THE GEAR SHIFT TO DRIVE. I HAD TO POP UP THE HOUSING AROUND THE GEAR SHIFT KNOB IN ORDER TO MANUALLY PUSH DOWN THE LITTLE WHITE BUTTON IN ORDER TO GET THE BUTTON ON THE KNOB TO DEPRESS SO THE GEAR SHIFT COULD BE MOVED TO DRIVE. I FOUND THIS OUT BY LOOKING IN THE OWNERS MANUAL. THIS HAPPENS ONLY ONCE IN A WHILE. I TOOK IT TO THE DEALER BUT THEY CAN'T GET IT TO HAPPEN. ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM YET?
Even with that, The P&S Director delegated the task of calling me to his Service Manager who then contacted me from his home as he had the day off from work. They wanted me to leave my car overnight. What for? I could easily drive it to the service bay first thing in the morning when the FSE is there. Something fishy, I say.
It took another call to the Team Leader to finally get the P&S Director to contact me directly and confirm my appointment with the FSE next Tuesday, May 20th. This is worse than pulling teeth...
At this point, I'm thankful that the Team Leader followed through on Lincoln's customer service philosophy. We'll see what happens next Tuesday.
ford624: I don't know what I would do with more power honestly. I have towed cars up some long and steep grades, and my engine doesn't even break a sweat, rarely kicks down the gear. I have never understood those reviews that call the Nav "underpowered" after 1998. It was weak in 98, but from 99 on, it was plenty peppy for my needs.
Now, the Tahoe with 5.7, or the Sequoia - THOSE are under powered! That's why everybody I know put flowmasters on them immediately to boost the output.
So, I have no need or interest in blowing or upsizing the Nav engine. Seems good to me..
BUT.
Why then does Edmunds Rating Editors have what is written below in its comments?
Cons
Engine falls short of some of its competitors',
Plus.
Squeaky wheels most always get attention.
2003 Lincoln Navigator
Premium 4WD 4dr SUV (5.4L 8cyl 4A)
300 hp @ 5000 rpm
355 ft-lbs. @ 2750 rpm
2003 Cadillac Escalade (6.0L 8cyl 4A)
345 hp @ 5200 rpm
Torque 380 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm
2003 Ford Excursion Limited (6.8L 10cyl 4A)
310 hp @ 4250 rpm
Torque 425 ft-lbs. @ 3250 rpm
2003 GMC Yukon XL Denali
320 hp @ 5000 rpm
Torque 360 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm
2003 HUMMER H2
Lux Series 4WD 4dr SUV (6.0L 8cyl 4A)
316 hp @ 5200 rpm
Torque 365 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm
2003 Mercedes-Benz G-Class
G55 AMG 4WD SUV (5.5L 8cyl 5A)
349 hp @ 5500 rpm
Torque 387 ft-lbs. @ 3000 rpm
2003 Porsche Cayenne
Turbo Tiptronic 4WD 4dr SUV (4.5L 8cyl Turbo 6A)
450 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque 457 ft-lbs. @ 2250 rpm
Give us a supercharger or V-10!
I called Lincoln about the problem, and they said no one else had reported anything. I went back to the dealership and drove another '03 with a navigation system and it was identical to mine. The salesperson and the customer relations person at the dealership both agreed completely with me about the difficulty in seeing the screen. I am waiting for the next sunny day to show it to the service manager and hopefully get something in motion that will resolve the problem.
I am wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with his/ her screen. Any input would be extremely appreciated.
If a weight to horsepower ratio is good enough for a Aviator, it certainly should be good enough for a Navigator.
A Lincoln Aviator weighs in at 4957 pounds and has 302-horse power with 300 pounds of torque.
A Lincoln Navigator weighs in at 6041 pounds and has 300-horsre power with 355 pounds of torque.
To end up with the same weight to horse power and torque ratio that an Aviator has, a Navigator’s horsepower will need to be increased to 368, and the torque would need to be increased to 366. (400 lbs of torque would be better)
Can you imagine what we would kind of horsrpower we would have if we used the Porsche Cayenne weight to horse power ratio.
The Toyotas (Landcruiser and Sequoia) only have tow ratings of 6500 lbs.
With the new F-150 getting 300 hp (and thus the 2004 Excursion), I'm sure more power is in the works for the Navigator.
Incidentally, I'm in Denver, so towing STARTS at 5280 feet!
1) Supercharged 4v 5.4
2) 4v v10
3) Supercharged 4v v10
“Thanks”
A. Horsepower: 380 hp Torque: 450 ft-lbs.
(This is the engine the F150 Lightening has)
2) 4v v10
A. Horsepower: 500 hp Torque: 525 ft-lbs.
(These are the specs on the V-10 Viper)
3) Supercharged 4v v10
A. Horsepower: 633 hp Torque: 661.5 ft-lbs.
(These are the specs on the V-10 Viper X 126%)
Incidentally, no one at the dealership even called to give me an update on the car. What is wrong with these people? The only one who had the wherewithal to give me a call was the supervisor, at Lincoln Customer Service.
So... right motor has been replaced. Awaiting shipment of the module. Meanwhile, driving a rental Ford Taurus (at the dealer's expense!) is not as comfortable... Can't wait to get my Navigator back in good working order!
I would [non-permissible content removed] bitterly about the Taurus rental...if I were you. Tell them you want an LS at the minimum.
Turns out that both liftgate motors needed to be replaced along with the shocks and liftgate module. Even though the service manager was so conciliatory, I would have liked to have called him some rather nasty names for not acknowledging the problem in the first place. Leave it to the field service engineer to get it solved and the Lincoln customer service supervisor to whip the dealership in shape. Now after two frustrating months, I can, like you, open and close my car's liftgate without any problems. The sound is smoother, softer, and more fluid. Time to really enjoy this vehicle!
What a lesson in patience and persistence! Here's to smooth sailing for all of us!
so what do you say when you pay $125,000 for a new car and you get a camry loaner....hahaha
I say you're lucky to get any loaner! It's a courtesy provided by the dealer who received no compensation from you. On the other hand, if the cost of a luxury loaner were included in your original invoice then show it to the dealer or take it to small claims court! :-)
tidester, host
I will, however, start looking if they begin to treat me differently, because the value to me is not in the sale, it's between sales. That's when the hassle always begins.
Our Mercedes dealership here also serves up Camry's for loaners, and my employees who drive MB are NOT impressed.
I have purchased 10 vehicles from this dealer in the past 14 years, and spent about $300,000 retail dollars there on new cars. I don't think a Lincoln rental is too much to ask. It really softens the blow when your machine breaks down, which.....they all do eventually.
Of course and good for you if your dealer provides a loaner that is "comparable" to what you bought! But don't you think it's bordering on frivolous to complain about being provided with a $25,000 Camry that you will likely park in your office parking lot for the day rather than a $54,000 Navigator that will end up in the same place? :-)
As I said, it's a courtesy and there is no obligation on the dealer's part to provide any loaner. That he does so is laudable and makes good business sense but I am having difficulty garnering much sympathy in the Camry or Taurus vs. Navigator as loaner tragedy! ;-)
tidester, host
If you have a Mercury, any loaner would be at the dealer's discretion.
Anytime - glad to help out! ;-)
tidester, host
Example: In 99, I was looking to upgrade my Mercury Mountaineer to a larger SUV. The Mountaineer was very competent, but I needed more people space + the towing ability. Went to the Ford dealer to test an Expedition. Was treated like a potential car thief, salesman went with me on test drive, never had the chance to make a left turn as I was told exactly where to drive, only right turns, and when I asked for the price, I was told, "The price happens when you're ready to buy it". Well, I was ready, but so mad at that point, I went back to the Lincoln store, where I was told to "Pick out the one you want to try, and take it home overnight". So, I paid $10,000 more for a wood steering wheel.
I know exactly what you're going to say. "that's a lot of money to pay to drive an LS when the car is in the shop". And, you're right. But I do, and I notice I have a fair amount of company. If I were a dealer, I would provide upgrade loaners for my customers, because driving a nicer car than what I own inspires me to upgrade. My dealer has provided Town Cars for loaners for all customers, Lincoln or Mercury for years. It is only recently they stopped doing that and put a Hertz office inside. Cost cutting, I'm sure. I have warned the GM though, (previous owner died last year), that if he starts treating me like his former Dodge dealership did, I'll have little reason to stay... That's all I'm saying about the loaners.....
Not at all.
I do think there is a difference between shoddy treatment of customers as you described and whether one gets a red loaner vs. a silver loaner for the few hours one might have one's vehicle in the shop! :-)
I know exactly what you're going to say.
I dont' think so! I'd be the last person to suggest how one should or should not spend one's money.
I can understand your point, however, as I too might be a bit miffed if I were given a GeoMetro as a loaner (I'd feel unsafe in such a small underpowered vehicle!). I think my reaction would be to decline the offer and visit a different dealership the next time around!
tidester, host
You must have the hearing of a dog, the clock doesn't bother me at all, but having it not work would.... whatever.
Did anyone on this Board test drive both? If so, why did you choose the Navigator?
Also, are there any significant changes planned for MY2004 like the 3-row side airbag? Any reason to wait til for the '04s or should we buy an '03 and take advantage of the rebate and financing deals?
I'm not up to date on what the 04 may have that the 03 doesn't. Maybe a rear camera. Hopefully, they'll get the body tighened up a bit. First year issues are not awful, but there are some.
The majority of people don't really need a RWD/BOF type of vehicle, so there's other alternatives such as car based, which is why I mentioned the XC90.
As for the differences between Expy and Navi, is quite a bit to justify the price difference. Handling wise, you will feel more isolated in the Navi. Not isolated in a Camry sense where you aren't communicated on the road (both have good on-road communication compared to numerous other SUV's), but wind/road noise are much more suppressed. NOT that the Expy is loud...they just addressed the issue more so.
Power wise, you will notice the Navi picks up speed after the tach. hits 1500rpm. Whereas the Expy you fill the thrust down low. Although the Navi is a bit quicker, but not that much being the Navi weighs a few hundred pounds more. I call it "luxury pounds", so the added horsepower you might see, might not be that evident.
Another common reason, is the Navi will require premium gas, where as the Expy runs fine with regular. And Lincolns extra year long warranty, with maintenence also sweetens the pot.
MY2004 information hasn't yet been released to the public, but mainly because that's still being worked on. How much can you really improve on a totally new vehicle.... If I do find that information out (which I believe I might in the new few weeks) then I'll share.
Although the next major change will take place late next year, possible MY2005. At that time (In the Expy), the current 5.4L 2V SOHC will be replaced with a 5.4L 3V version pumping around 300HP. This engine will debut in the new F-150 in a few months, and will be phased into the Expy line in the next retouch (usually occurs 2-3 years after initial introduction). But again, this is still over a years time away.... Would be pointless for you to wait such a long time, because we are looking at today, this week, this month, NOT over a year away.
The Navi will also be upgraded in power. More on that at another time when I can confirm it.
As for the "break" dust - I assume you mean brake dust - buy some Porterfield R4S brake pads if they're available. Stopping power will be increased greatly and there will be virtually no dust.
I personally would like to see my wife in the new fully-loaded '04 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited which is an AWD vehicle, but she's minivan phobic (maybe she'll feel differently if I can get her to test drive it). To get the same amount of space and luxury as the Sienna, you need to look at the full-size SUVs with a third row option. My gut feeling is that an EB Expedition would give us practically everything the Navi has for about 10K less $. (I'm not considering the big GM SUVs based on my preference for Ford products.)
In that case, I would say maybe the Expy will be your better choice. As you pointed out, it's more inexpensive than the Navi, and it seems it'll work for your needs.
My only dislike for the Expy Eddie Bauer (and this is JUST a ME thing) is that the interior must be in beige, and I dislike beige interiors. But it's Eddie Bauer's signature you might say.
Test drive it and let us know your thoughts.
I can't say I've had negative experiences with a Ford L/M dealership. I've never had to take them in for warranty work or such so it's not something I can comment.
Although in my city, there is one Ford dealership I've stuck to. They understand that if I'm there, it's because I have a friend who's very interested I'm bringing along and chances we are walking out with something. So they cut the B.S. and get to the point. I also get to speak with the sales people, and I question them and see how "aware" they are about the product. And they give me great prices on the vehicle, because they are aware that I know what it really costs, and what their sales goals are and such :-)
Yet, I've been to every other dealerships service dept. everytime a friend needs to have some work on their vehicle, and something has gone wrong, or there's issues that haven't been properly addressed. (I'm becoming quite well known at one local VW dealership)