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Kia Sedona Starting/Stalling/Idling Problems

ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
This is the place to talk about idling or stalling problems with the Kia Sedona.

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  • fmportfmport Member Posts: 9
    Hello, I am new here so please bare with me. I need some help. I have a 2005 Kia Sedona with 13000 miles and having some fuel/stalling problems which three different dealerships can not find. The problem is that when you press on the gas from a dead stop, the van does not go. You press the gas throttle all the way down, nothing happens for a couple of seconds, then the car takes off like crazy. The first time I took it to the dealership the service manager felt the problem but could not duplicate it the next day, and could not find any code problems in the computer. They kept the van for a whole week and a half, used half a tank (as per my request, I wanted them to find the problem) but to no avail, the problem did not happen again. They blamed it on a bad batch of gas. I then took the van on vacation and it happened again, took it to another dealership (800 miles away from home) and could not duplicate the problem either. They found the transmission was a little low on oil and thought that it was the problem. Long story short three different Kia dealers can not find the problem, the van is back in the shop and I am waiting for their assessment. Any help or experience with this problem would really be appreciated. When this happens, it feels like the fuel filter is plugged, the injectors are bad or the fuel pump does not work, the weird thing is that it does not happen all the time, and you have no warning when is going to happen, because the engine runs super smooth with no problems until you press on the gas and nothing happens. Thank you
  • smulveysmulvey Member Posts: 139
    The factors that contribute to what you are describing include fuel with some water in it, problems with the software in the computer ( a slow response setting to the gas pedal. ) and a bad throttle position sensor.

    While there are many parts of the car the tie into this the basic deal is this:

    1.) your car is running at idle and drawing some volume of air.
    2.) You take your foot off the BRAKE and the computer senses this.
    3.) You press the gas pedal and the cable on the gas pedal
    opens a metal butterfly plate( like the old carburetor throttle blades) on the metal air nozzle that is directly after the black plastic air cleaner.This makes more air available to the running engine.
    4.) A plastic and electronic "POT" , Potentiometer, normally located on the same pivot shaft where your gas pedal cable is attached ( it will have wires on it )is going to rotate and create a increased electrical value to the engine computer, probably 0 to 5 VDC , with 5 VDC being Wide Open Throttle ( "WOT" ) this tells the computer how fast you are depressing the gas pedal. Also when you stop pressing the gas pedal it tells the computer where you decide to run the motor at.
    5.) The computer decides what spark plug firing advance to have , what fuel injector pulse to generate, and basicly it decides what " throttle response" you are going to see.

    The other sensors on the motor include temperature, Barometric air pressure and crankshaft position.

    6.) With all this data the engine computer plugs in your values and your car runs.

    I personally have seen stalling from a bad TPS ( throttle position sensor- Ford LTD/mustang 1984)

    I personally have seen bad software ( from the factory )
    Ford / Mercury LTD Wagon 1980 / 351 V8 , "Variable Venturi Carb "

    I personally have seen SLOW throttle response .
    ( 1984 Ford LTD V-6 Engine computer, I swapped in a 1986 Mustang computer and it ran Great !)

    I think you should follow these steps:

    a.) Run the gas tank down to 1/4 or less and then put in two cans of Castle Brand Isopropyl Alcohol "Double Dry " dry Gas.
    b.) On top of that dry gas put in a full tank of Sunoco 94 octane or similar fuel

    c.) Remove the existing air cleaner, clean out the black plastic box throughly and install a new KIA air filter from the dealer. ( they are only $ 16 and they are the best.)

    d.) Remove the rubber tube connecting the Air Filter tube to the metal motor tube. Look inside and make sure there are no rats or mice dead or living , in there.

    e.) Have Sears Auto or similar put the car on a lift and make sure there are no brakes dragging on the two rear wheels. Put your tire pressure up to 32 PSI.

    f.) Drive the car around for a few hours and see if there is improvement.

    If there is no improvement there likely is a problem with the TPS or similar engine sensor.

    My 2002 Sedona has 77K miles and it has a great deal of torque off the line. When we go over those white lines at the stop lights the engine always slips the wheels with power.

    Good Luck.
  • bigboyballbigboyball Member Posts: 2
    7/10/2006
    I bought my wife a Sedona in 2002, used. Since then the van has had an intermittent problem with stalling / bucking while being driven.
    The car will just stall out or buck hard as if it wanted to stall but caught again.
    I've been to the dealer a few times and each time there is nothing in the computer memory or any lights on the dash to indicate a clear cut problem.
    Today I've had enough. I had my wife write down the mileage before she gave the service department the keys for the day.
    At the end of the day same old story, we can't find anything wrong and cannot re-create the problem.
    I call Kia customer service, not exactly the best people to deal with either and explain my concerns about the problem occurring while my wife and 4 year old son are driving along and the potential dangers.
    To make an already long explanation a bit shorter, I finally had the service man, who by the way only drove the vehicle for 7 miles today, agree to keep the vehicle a week or until the problem could be documented on their diagnostic machines. Oh and I also told him that mileage would be checked each day just to make sure that they are actually doing something about the problem.
    Well as you can expect they himmed and hawed a bit but agreed to do so.
    Has anyone else experience this sort of problem with their 2002 Kia Sedona or other years.
    Thanks for your time and patience.
  • fmportfmport Member Posts: 9
    Thank you smulvey for all your tips. The vehicle is still in the shop, so I will keep you posted. Did you have the prolem solved bigboyball?
  • fmportfmport Member Posts: 9
    Did you have the problem fixed?
  • fmportfmport Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for all your help and advice, I will do all this after I get the van from the shop. They've already told me they are still investigating the problem but they can't find anything wrong, or duplicate the problem. Also where can I find the Castle Brand Isopropyl Alcohol "Double Dry " dry Gas?
    Thank you very much
  • marjackmarjack Member Posts: 1
    We have a 2002 Kia Sedona that we purchased new and also have the same problem that you are having. This problem with our van did not begin until we moved from Michigan to South Carolina and we thought that maybe it had something to do with climate. Looking back at all of our paperwork after I finally called the Kia Customer service line, I realized that we have been having this problem since January of 2005. Our van is doing the same exact thing that you talk about...Chugging/stalling but according to the dealership they cannot re-create the problem and therefore cannot help us and up until recently the check engine light had not come on. But the last time it was in a few weeks ago the check engine light had come on but it has continued to chug/stall since we've had it home. Initially, when we began having the problem, it was only when my wife was driving on the highway and would get off at an exit. When she would reach the end of the exit and stop it would stall. Then it progressed to the chugging and stalling (and sometimes a strong fume odor and the RPM's race way up) and now has become a serious safety concern because it stalled on my wife two weeks ago while making a left hand turn. Thankfully there was no oncoming traffic and she was able to get the van re-started. One time we thought that we had figured out that it would only do it when it was raining or was damp outside, but we were proven wrong because now it does it whenever & at this point we do not know what to do. We love our van and it is paid for so we really do not want another vehicle. The dealership has had the vehicle for weeks at a time and has replaced many parts but say that they cannot find anything wrong. When I called the customer service number I was really disappointed because they basically told me that all I could do was take it back to the dealership. What I wanted the most was to find out if anyone else was having this problem because we really felt like we were going crazy. According to the customer service line, no one else is having this problem. So my wife and I thank you for posting your problem and hope that we can figure this out!

    Thank You!!
  • fmportfmport Member Posts: 9
    I am so sorry you are having the same problem as us, look at mesagge 1296 and 1297. Our van is currently still in the shop and will keep you posted about the outcome.
  • times2times2 Member Posts: 45
    We have a 2002 EX with about 47,000 miles on it. I've recently noticed that sometimes when coming to a stop that the Tach will go to 0 (although the engine doesn't entirely stop), and it will run very rough. The way it feels to me is that the transmission is not dis-engaging when the vehicle at is at a stop, but because the vehicle is not moving, the engine can not maintain it's idle. It's almost the equivalent of being at a stop with a manual transmission, but not having the car in neutral or the clutch dis-engaged. The engine has no choice except to stall. This is only my theory. The other possibility is that the spark plugs are starting to go bad, and maybe something is mis-firing at low RPMs. Although other cars I've had can go more than 100,000 miles before changing the plugs. I hope this might be helpful
  • smulveysmulvey Member Posts: 139
    Another important factor can be the fuel filter and the spark plugs . The Fuel Filter on my van has never been changed. But I suppose if I was stalling at stop signs that would be a important thing to check. Same consideration for the fuel pump and the fuel system. Since these are supposed to be electric fuel pumps they should run the SAME speed no matter what your engine speed is. BUT ! there is a PRESSURE REGULATOR that could cause a driveablity problem if the pressure was too much or too little. In this case it might be too little. There is also the consideration of SPARK PLUGS . We have heard from some technicians not to use BOSCH PLATINUM spark plugs if you do a replacement. Use the regular Champions that came on the car. Bear in mind when changing spark pplugs , the front three are easy. The rear three require you to have a set of gaskets to replace the intake manifold . You must remove the intake manifold before you can get to the three spark plugs on the back 3 cylinders. Always have WD40 on hand to clean and condition the spark plug caps wires and boots, also you need a small tube of Never Seize for the spark plug threads,( available at the check out in Autozone ) and 2 small packets of Dielectric Grease to help lube the wires and protect the boots.

    I think if the fuel pressure (which can be gauge checked at the dealer) is Good and the Spark is Good, the problem is in the Engine management computer or sensors.

    Also that theory ties in well with the intermittent nature of the problem.

    Good Luck-

    My guy is still running swell.
  • minivanfrankminivanfrank Member Posts: 83
    Smulvey,
    Did you replace the plugs yourself? How much was the gasket set? How long did it take?
    THanks
  • rustyolredrustyolred Member Posts: 3
    I had the same problem on my 02 Sedona EX. I took it to the dealership on 6-8 different occassions to find out the problem. To no avail. Finally after about 3-4 months of this problem the check engine light came on and I took the van to Auto Zone to have the code read. Turned out to be the coil pack on #1 cylinder was going bad(thus the intermittent problem). $100 and about 15 minutes of my time later it is doing great as far as that problem goes. This could very well be your problem, although not necessarily #1 cylinder is misfiring, just maybe one of them.
  • 93volvo24093volvo240 Member Posts: 3
    Bigboyball,

    I have a 2002 with 67K miles and am having a very similar problem. In our case, the van runs normally for 50-60 miles and then begins chugging. When it acts up, it won't accelerate even with the gas pedal pressed to the floor. It seems to operate normally below 30 mph. In several instances, we have pulled over to the side of the road, turned the engine off for a minute or so, and then the car operates normally. This has been very perplexing! We took the car to the local Kia dealership and they were able to replicate the problem, but they could never accurately diagnose the problem as there were never any fault codes displayed. The dealership called the Kia tech support line and they were of little help. They thought it might be a problem with the cam angle or cam angle sensor but they weren't certain. The said it would be $1000 to fix but they wouldn't guarantee that it would solve the problem. I declined the repair "attempt". I've been driving the van to and from work ~5 miles and I'm basically not sure how to proceed with this mysterious ailment.

    I would be very interested to know how this plays out for you or anyone else on this board that is experiencing this issue. Thanks!
  • smulveysmulvey Member Posts: 139
    The VSS , Vehicle Speed Sensor , is good for telling the computer and the transmission how fast the car is going. I suppose it also tells the power steering how fast you are going also.

    The person who said it might be COIL PACKS , YES !!! I remember on our fleet of GM 3.8 V6 bonnevilles and Oldsmobiles when the sales people hit 70 K miles these things began to fail intermittently, in the October weather , when it was cooler, and they would let the car start up and then after a few miles the car would quit. The coil pack eventually would not let the car start at all. Since there is one coil pack for every TWO cylinders you lose a lot of driveablity when one coil pack fails. Plus you pour unburned fuel down the tailpipe. The good news is these things are not very expensive if you source it out, and they are easy to install on the front 3 cylinders. On the back three you will need to pull the top of the intake manifold. You might as well do the spark plugs and wires while you are back there. It is much less then a thousand dollars. Any engine analysis computer should be able to display the 6 spark plug firing state and how good the coils are. Also there are ways of stressing the coils , off the car , and getting the weak ones to fail.

    I would still change the fuel filter for sure first though!
  • rustyolredrustyolred Member Posts: 3
    Kia does not use Champion plugs. They come from the factory with NGK plugs, and will run like crap with a different brand. How do I know? I found out the hard way.
  • boxwrenchboxwrench Member Posts: 55
    smulvey,

    I thought the Sedona fuel filter was inside the fuel tank, and common with the pump? Am I wrong?

    My step-son has a Pontiac Grand-Am, and found by diagnostic test the #3 coil was bad on the 4-Cyl eng. This is the engine that has the individual coil pack mounted on top of the engine, and touches the top of the Plugs. Found another complete aftermarket unit, Standard Ign., (almost new) and got it for him to use. Solved the problem--- for a couple months. Used the other part of the coil-pack to fix #3 again. Good for another couple months.
    Now he says he needs another one. What can be making #3 coil-pack go bad so frequently. Or is it Dumb-Luck!!

    Boxwrench
  • fmportfmport Member Posts: 9
    I had posted "fuel salling problems" that I had with my mini van in earlier messages. Long story short, had the vehicle for 12 months, 14,000 miles, left me stranded twice, once out of town and it was in the shop for a total of one month in the year that I owned it. What good is the so called "best warranty" if they can't fix the problem the vehicles develop. I looked into suing Kia under the lemon law, but it was gonna be risky because (according to my lawyer) Kia would send a master mechanic to inspect the vehicle and if he did not find anything wrong, then I would not have a case, and since the vehicle did not stall all the time it was not a risk I was willing to take. I traded the vehicle for a new GMC Envoy XL and I could not be happier. Like they say "You get what you paid for" I was fooled by their warranty, but hey! you live, you learn.
  • ramblinramblin Member Posts: 29
    After 4 service trips where the dealer was unable to replicate the stalling, I finally got our 04 EX into the dealer after my wife called for rescue.

    Van had set for 1/2 hour before I was able to arrive. I started it up, ran fine for 4 miles and started the stalling and stalled about 10 times in the dealers lot and stalled just as I was driving into the service bay. Finally the check engine light came on and stayed on. All other times there were no error codes to be found.

    They replaced the air mass sensor and all seems to be fine. I could have sworn that they replaced this on the first occurrence.

    The stalling seems to have been triggered by the cooler weather as we had temps below 50 for the first time in the season. The last time the van had a stalling incident was in March 06.

    43,000 miles
  • smulveysmulvey Member Posts: 139
    Just to keep some good news flowing- I just returned from a
    trip of 1200 miles and am happy to report fuel economy of up to 30 MPG on the highway, no A/C running,, and no driveablity troubles.

    My check engine light came on and stayed on with my second tank of fuel. I thought it might be the gas cap. I checked the cap twice but the light would not go off.

    I bought a ACTRON 9135 code scanner at Advanced Auto for $ 100 and I found the code, actual reads" VERY SMALL VACUUM LEAK IN EVAPORATIVE EMISSION SYSTEM" I erased the code and drive 400 miles with no troubles.

    So I would have to say at 83,000 miles I am very happy with my van and would have to say that those who had trouble were the victims of bad luck and bad support by the dealer or Kia or both.

    But so far so good for me and my van.
  • sedonaownersedonaowner Member Posts: 1
    My wife has a 2003 Sedona van with 38,000 miles on it. It has had problems with rough running and near stalling for a long time and has been brought back to the dealer for this on numerous occasions. Last week, it stalled out in heavy traffic on my wife with my daughter in the van. The dealership, which has been trying hard to identify the problem, this time replaced the power control module. It stalled out on me several times in my own driveway, and lost power while trying to accelerate onto a highway and at other times, mostly while trying to accelerate briskly, during about 50 miles of driving. I left it at the dealership today. I have been doing a lot of research on the net and have found many similar experiences, with almost everyone failing to get the problem repaired. While I believe my dealership is honest and honorable, this car, in my opinion, is a lemon and a major safety problem and customers are being ignored by the Kia corporation.

    I have filed a report of these problems with the US National Highway Transporation Safety Administration (NHTSA) over the internet and urge anyone else who has had similar stalling or loss of power problems to do so also. The NHTSA web page is http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.bead436724af02e770f6df102000- 8a0c/

    One third of the way down the page you will see this header:
    File a Complaint About a Vehicle or Child Seat Here

    Click on it and there is a popup to the complaint form. Copy the body of your complaint into a word processor document so you'll have it and send a copy to your congressman/woman and US senator (addresses easily available from the internet), asking them to look into whether there are major issues involved with Kia. There may well be some of these legislators who will be happy to find a consumer issue to rally behind before an election.

    The only way to get a billion dollar foreign company to react to serious consumer issues is to get the power of the federal government, your government, paid for with your tax dollars, to lean on them.

    I've been involved in government and know this is our collective best chance.
  • zay_2001zay_2001 Member Posts: 1
    I had the same problem..One of many, I have had my 02 kia for 2 years. It ran great for a few 1000 miles but then it just went haywire. The problem that is similar to yours ended up being the fuel pump. They origionally told me that it was bad gas so I went to the gas station on the military base that I got gas from and raised sand. They pulled the whole pump and it was good gas. Kia wanted to charge me 500 dollars to pull all the fuel components and dispose of a full tank of gas. imagine that..I was without my van for 3 weeks since I was stranded on the interstate with 2 kids and my pregnant wife. I also had to get a rental car.
    problems:
    1. fuel pump-stranded me for 3 weeks and some days
    2. new battery-vehicle died on me in florida. thought alternator went out... 700 miles away from home.
    3. front motor mount was went bad,heard clunking noise in front of vehicle. twice to dealer, broke down, 1 week after getting it back..
    4. front suspension struts replaced.
    5. ac went out in front ac still not fixed..dealer says that since aftermarket stereo is installed it is not covered by warranty
    6. Alternator went out. Vehicle being serviced now. 600 dollars to fix. took out loan to fix...There goes x-mas

    My credit is not good so I cant trade until I pay it off..what will happen next?
    This is not coincidence...for those thinking that...mny people are having the same problem..I love my kia but this will be my last. My grandfather told me 10 years ago dont buy huandai or kia and I guess a hard head makes a soft behind.
  • sedona_06sedona_06 Member Posts: 2
    We have a 2005 Sedona, that we started having problems with Nov 7th, 2005 we took in it. It would up and quit on the freeway, you wait a few minutes it would start back up my husband had to do this all the way back home from his work because no Kia dealers on the way home would touch it because it had the anti theif in it when we bought it with 13 miles on it. They said they couldnt find anything wrong with it they figured it had to do with that anti theif device cause the company closed their doors 2 months after we bought the van, they had seen a similar problem with other cars with device in it. Nov 27th, my husband was on his way to work it did it again, he stopped at the Kia dealer by his work they wouldnt touch for that same reasons cause of the anti theif device. We take it to where we bought it at, they thought it was that also but they will not show me proof that they tried anything else. At this point i am not being the nicest person to them. They tell us it is fixed they put the original relay back in, so we go pick it at 1:15pm, by 3:30pm I am calling Kia back because it did it with me in the van, it would stop running in the middle of the freeway then it did this again it would learch forward, we would wait a few minutes it would start back up, then it started doing this every 2 miles or so then at the end right before we go to the dealer it was doing it every block. After i go off on them when we get back there, they are saying it could be the fuel pump, we are at 62,000 miles on the van. I was wondering if anyone else is having this same problem. :confuse: We have already replaced the brakes once on it also.
  • ramblinramblin Member Posts: 29
    2.5 months later. Running like a top (knock on wood) No stalling. I guess the air mass sensor did the trick.
  • sedona_06sedona_06 Member Posts: 2
    We just got the van back, it was the Power Control Moguel thank goodness it was covered under warranty. The part was 1,600.00 plus labor can we say ouch. They had to get the part from Korea.
  • budmaniacbudmaniac Member Posts: 1
    i have a 2006 kia sedona ex with 9100 miles on it..i have had some problems starting the van..it would turn over but not start..i would let it sit for a few minutes then it would start fine..i took it to kia and they said it working fine we had no problem starting it.i took it home and it didnt do it for a couple of weeks..then it did it again...i took it back and they still said it didnt have any trouble starting it...so i once again took it home..it did it a few days later i took it back again..this time they gave me new keys and reprogramed the keys..it worked for a week..and then it did it again..this time they changed the computer all under warranty..but it still does it..we call kia and told us to send it to another kia shop..i did that and they said the same thing couldnt get it to do it..it hasnt don it for a few months now it did it to me again...not sure if this van is a now i have noticed when i close the rear hatch..it doesnt make the 3 beep sounds but the flashers still flash 3 times..going to call kia again..i also heard the problem might be caused by the alarm if u had it installed but i didnt..so still not sure....
  • brandihbrandih Member Posts: 7
    I have had my van towed 3 times in three weeks. It just at times, decides to not start. There is power to the dash but when you turn the key, NOTHING. The dealership said they checked the recall and my van is not one effected. Further, said they checked the harness it was fine. They said they got it to start and to come pick it up. One week later, same scenario. Towed again. Said it wouldn't start off tow truck then pushed into garage and started. Ordered a new sensor for detection of gear and replaced. Today, it wouldn't start again. Towed again. I love my van, I really do. I drove every van on the market and chose the Kia. I just want it fixed. Suggestions Similar problems?
  • james61james61 Member Posts: 4
    I just experienced the same starting problem with my 2006 Kia Sedona (8352 miles). It seems to have normal electrical power when I turn the ignition key to on. When I turn the ignition further to the start position the starter relay in the main fuse box clicks but the starter motor will not spin. I confirmed that the shift lever was in the park position. The battery has a full charge. I can't figure it out.
  • brandihbrandih Member Posts: 7
    Its in the shop. Have you taken it to the dealership service? Maybe we should put our Kia service departments together. Its #3 and I am considering invoking the Lemon Law if they can not find the definative problem. I have children and no trust in the reliabilty of the van. :lemon: Cheyenne, WY
  • brandihbrandih Member Posts: 7
    Kia of Cheyenne found the problem to be the instrument control panel module. Wish me luck and good luck to you james61. I hope this is the end of the problems!
  • james61james61 Member Posts: 4
    Brandih, I hope they found the real problem. Good luck. Thanks for the heads up on the instrument control panel module. My Sedona started again after about an hour of tinkering with it. I still didn't find anything wrong.
  • james61james61 Member Posts: 4
    brandih,
    My 2006 Kia Sedona did it again. The starter will not turn over. I had it towed to the dealer. Of course it started right up at there. The dealer is is not willing to change the instrument control panel module unless the part is not working when they check it. I wanted to know if by changing that part in your van it did solve the starting problem? Thanks.
  • ohiodadohiodad Member Posts: 25
    Towed to the dealer for the second time in 3 weeks today. Last time they said it was a faulty fuse block and replaced it. This morning it wouldn't start again. 3 strikes and they are buying this thing back.. Traded in an 01 Silhouette on this thing that never once left us stranded.. Should have known better!
  • vannervanner Member Posts: 47
    Just curious ohiodad - what part of Ohio are you in?
  • althesandiealthesandie Member Posts: 4
    I have been through all of this on my Sedona. Presume yours is the diesel? Going through main dealers they wanted to change main board etc. and was out of warranty and would have cost a fortune. Car wouldn't start but just turn over on the starter. Go back half an hour later and it would start. Long story short, it was the immobiliser at the diesel pump shutting off the fuel. Small back street electrical shop found it and removed the offending part and replaced the main valve at the pump all for £100 compared to the dealers guess which was to be £500 and wouldn't have fixed it.
  • james61james61 Member Posts: 4
    ohiodad,
    After some more research the starting problem on my Kia Sedona was discovered. I called the service manager at Kia of Cheyenne(thanks Marty) and found out the part they replaced on brandih's Sedona was the Junction Box (the small fuse box located by the drivers left knee). So far that vehicle is not causing any more problems. I passed this info on to our local dealer here in Burlington, WA. After two days of persistent trouble shooting the service manager (thanks Robbie) was able to duplicate the starting problem. By Jiggling the Junction Box she was able to get it to start again. They are now replacing that part. Good luck.
  • ohiodadohiodad Member Posts: 25
    I'm in Hilliard, West side of Columbus..
  • ohiodadohiodad Member Posts: 25
    Hey james61,
    Thanks for the info.. Last time in they told me ours started right up when it got there but they fixed a sliced wire on the fuse block. Then they tried to pass me paperwork that said unable to duplicate problem. I of course made them fix this. Last night my wife made a quick stop after work only to get stranded again. So it was towed to the dealer again for the 3rd time in less than a month now... I asked the tow truck driver to try to start it when he got there and he did and it wouldn't start. Today they tell me again that it started right up this morning.. They can't duplicate the problem in the shop.. Meanwhile I continue to be frustrated...
  • brandihbrandih Member Posts: 7
    Yes, it solved the problem. Weeks have passed and it's started every time.
  • ohiodadohiodad Member Posts: 25
    Well after calling the service area the next day after reading james61's reply and suggesting they check the junction box.. The service area told me they were able to duplicate the problem after 20 restarts.. They replaced the junction box that james61 described in his post above.. and knock on wood so far so good...
  • ramblinmoramblinmo Member Posts: 38
    Update 3/19/07. Problem is back. Dealer able to recreate the problem briefly and then it ran fine. Reset some electrical connections.

    The common denominator is that it has been either very humid or it has rained recently when the stalling happens.

    I'm about ready to trade it off and let someone else and the dealer worry about it.
  • chrisseniorchrissenior Member Posts: 4
    THIS IS LENGTHY BUT PLEASE STICK WITH ME HERE! My 2004 Kia Sedona has 24,000 miles on it and is still in the 3 year 36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper part of the warranty (the car has an additional warranty of 10 years, 100,000 miles).

    In early December of 2006, the check engine light came on and the car immediately lost power. My daughter limped it back home from about a mile away. AAA towed it the next day to Albert Kia in Rehoboth. MA. We had purchased the car there in 2004 but it was a Herb Chambers dealership at that time. In any case, about 3 days later, the service manager from Albert Kia called and said the car had a blown engine and that it would be replaced under warranty. However, we needed to bring in all the oil change records because we had never had the car serviced there and they had no record that the car was properly maintained.

    We went to our mechanic and he ran all the oil change and service records for the car. Within 2 days, these were brought to Albert Kia and we were told that the engine would be ordered and the car ready in about a week. Once the week passed, we called the dealership to see how things were going. Mr. Albert informed my daughter that the entire service department was let go and he was closing his business. I called Kia USA and informed them as to what had happened. Later that day, the rep from Kia USA told me that they were going to tow my car to Balise Kia in Warwick, RI. By days' end, the car was at Balise.

    Two days later, Scott, the service manager at Balise, called to tell me that he and the district manager had looked at the car and it was determined that it had 5 liters too much oil in it. I mentioned to Scott that a blown head gasket would make it look like there was too much oil because in those instances the oil mixes with the radiator fluid. Scott said the oil looked too thick for that to be the case.

    I called Mr. Albert from The now defunct Albert Kia to see if he could locate his former service manager as the diagnosis he made was never entered into the computer system so there was no proof of his original diagnosis. Mr. Albert said he would try and about 5 hours later he called me back to report he had had no success in reaching the old service manager.

    I told Scott that the service manager at Albert Kia had already diagnosed the car and reported a blown engine, never once mentioning anything about too much oil or any other abuse to the car. We were told the engine would be ordered and the job performed under warranty. Scott said the district manager had made the determination and that there was nothing he could do for me. I called Kia USA again and spoke with the rep. She said that she would bump the case up to a higher authority. I asked her if I could speak with the DM directly before she did that. She basically said that the DM's don't typically speak directly with the customers. That, she said, was the purpose of her job. I demanded to speak to the DM before the case was bumped up. She called the DM (with me on the line) and it went to voice mail. She left my name and number (I could hear the entire conversation). So, I waited 5 days for this DM to call back before calling Kia USA again. The rep now said my case was bumped upstairs. I explained that I clearly had wanted to speak with the DM before this happened but it happened anyway. I was told that I would be contacted within 72 hours for my side of the story. Within the 72 hours, Jeff from Kia USA called and informed me that he had my case. After a brief review of the entire story, Jeff asked me to fax over the service records to him.

    He said once he had those, he'd see what he could do. I had the service records re-printed once again from the mechanic and faxed them over to Jeff the next morning. That was on January 9th, 2007. I called January 16th to make sure the papers were there and to see what progress had been made. When I called the number and extension Jeff had given me, it went to voice mail for a gentleman named Andrew. I pressed "O" for the operator, as I thought I had been connected to the wrong extension. It was the right extension. Turns out that Jeff was no longer with the company. The operator said to leave the message with Andrew. She said that if Andrew was the new case worker he'd call. If not, he'd call anyway to let me know who's working on the case now.

    Russell Stuart from KIA USA called back to say he was the new case worker. He had reviewed the case but was trying to find out where Jeff had placed the copies of the service records. I re-faxed those over to him to save the time and effort it would take to locate these for the third time. Russell Stuart called back later in the week to tell me the decision was final and that Kia would not cover any part of the repair. The repair would rest on me. The DM, he said, has refused to reverse his decision. I questioned Russell about the previous diagnosis from Albert Kia of a blown engine and he said "maybe the service department was let go because they were incompetent". To my understanding, the whole dealership folded up due to money problems. So now Russell and Kia were dismissing the original diagnosis as one of incompetence. Russell said, "Mr. Brosco, I'm not saying that you under-maintained your vehicle - I'm saying that you OVER-MAINTAINED your vehicle. I asked if I could take this to an unbiased mechanic, one who would have nothing to gain by the decision (like a AAA certified mechanic).

    I was told that if anyone other than a Kia dealer looked into the engine, the warranty would be void. I was offered the opportunity to take this vehicle to another Kia dealer, but with the same DM, what would be the point. I went to Balise Kia to have the car towed by AAA from that dealership to a family mechanic. The first thing I did, upon seeing the car for the first time in over a month, was ask Scott, the Balise service manager, for a garage rag. I immediately went out to the parking lot and checked the oil. Much to my amazement, the oil was BARELY over the fill line. Where were these 5 extra quarts/liters? I went back inside and told Scott that the oil was barely over the fill line.

    He told me that I needed to start the car before checking the oil. I immediately knew that I was speaking with someone who clearly knew nothing about cars. As the car was being placed on the flatbed of the tow truck, the Kia DM miraculously showed up and came out to the parking lot. This was the first time I had met him face-to-face or spoken directly to him. I asked where this extra 5 liters of oil was. He said that he never said that. I told him that Russell at Kia USA said that the extra oil was the problem with the car.

    The DM checked the oil, noted that it was barely over the fill line and again said that he never said that the car had 5 liters of extra oil in it and that he'd call Russell to set the record straight. The DM removed the oil cap, looked at the underside and said, "Here
  • ramblinmoramblinmo Member Posts: 38
    Looking forward to the rest of the story. You story is not indicative of all Kia products or experiences with service. It sounds like a string of bad circumstances.

    The KIA DM(s) behavior so far, is pretty out of line and should be shouted far and wide.

    There was another forum somewhere that I had seem some major suit VP of ???? from Kia participating in the discussion.

    It would be good to pass this story on to them. Don't give up.
  • chrisseniorchrissenior Member Posts: 4
    Here's the rest of the story....enjoy!

    Here's the problem - See all this sludge on the back of this cap? This car has never had an oil change.

    So now we go from over-maintained to under-maintained. I asked if the sludge on the back of the cap was the result of a blown head gasket and what we were looking at was the result of oil mixing with radiator fluid. The DM said he thought not. I said, "If that's the case, where's all the fluid in the radiator overflow container? It was almost empty. The DM got mad and said to one of the mechanics, "Take the car into the shop. We're going to remove the front valve cover". The DM told me that if the underside of the valve cover had the same sludge on it as the oil filler cap did, he wasn't going to cover anything. The car was taken into the shop and the valve cover was removed. Once removed, I was called into the service bay and shown the results.

    The underside of the valve cover had a thick, almost pudding-like buildup on the underside - but it was only on the left half of the cover. The other half looked pretty normal. I questioned why the sludge was on just one half. The DM said it was possibly the result of the engine being mounted in the car one inch lower on the left and favoring that corner. Sounded like total bull to me. I then repeated that the sludge, to me, looked like the result of oil mixing with radiator fluid.

    At this time, my son (an ASE Certified Master Technician) was also on the phone speaking with the DM at the same time and hearing the conversation that all 3 of us were having. My son made the point that if the car had never had an oil change in the 24,000 miles of ownership, it would not look like this. In fact the DM even said to the both of us that If he knew nothing about this vehicle and saw this valve cover, he would have told me that the car had been driven 80,000 to 100,000 miles without ever having an oil change. He also seemed to be hinting that we may have turned back the odometer. This angered me greatly. I asked the DM to view the oil filter, which he did.

    I asked if that was the original oil filter. He said it was not. So, I said to the DM, ok let's use your reasoning and say we under-maintained the car. Kia expects the oil to be changed every 5,000 miles. So let's say that we drove the car 5,000 miles and had the oil changed, as validated by the fact that the car does not have the original oil filter in it. The new oil would have been good to 10,000 miles. The car currently has 24,000 miles on it. Are you saying that the sludge I'm witnessing on this valve cover gasket is the result of driving with old oil for a mere 14,000 miles? The DM said no. That he had NEVER witnessed that much sludge on a car with 24,000 miles on it - still hinting that we may have turned back the odometer. I asked him if the tires on the care were the originals. He said they were. Which proved the car's mileage was, indeed, correct. So - with all that, the DM took digital photos of the valve cover and samples of the sludge to send to a lab for analysis. He said if the tests come back and there is something other than oil in this sludge, I will stand corrected and repair the car. Indeed a few days later, I was called and told the decision stood. The lab showed that nothing was mixed in the sludge. It was merely oil. A week later, the car was towed to my son's service garage.

    It should be noted that Balise Kia went out of business, as well, a week after my car left their dealership. When my son looked at the car, a few days later, the first thing he did was run the car and let it warm up for about 20 minutes. Previous to this, the car had not been left to run for more than a minute since the check engine light first appeared. Upon warming up and taking the car into the service bay, my son removed the oil filler cap and surer than hell, the underside of the cap was the same color as the radiator fluid - a strong indication of a blown head gasket (my original diagnosis that was dismissed by the DM). In addition, the computer showed that the 2nd and 4th cylinders were skipping. In addition, these two cylinders are on the front of the motor - all the way on the left which is EXACTLY where we saw all the sludge build-up on the underside of the valve cover AND directly underneath the oil filler cap (explaining why there was this pudding-like sludge on the filler cap).

    My son also found a Kia issued technical service bulletin stating that some 2004 Sedona models with the 3.5 liter engine had a defect that left a score mark at the #6 cylinder on the head, resulting in head gasket failure. My vehicle was built 4 weeks after Kia said they corrected the problem so Kia (who never even mentioned this service bulletin)will not lend any credence to this theory either. If my son takes apart the engine and finds the exact scoring at the #6 cylinder as described in the technical service bulletin, he will have voided the warranty. If a Kia dealer does the work, the same DM will be involved and he'll likely still refuse to cover the warranty work because we will have made a mockery of his original decision or he'll claim that the ar was made outside the service bulletin dates. In either case, I'm not going to be covered.

    This is a vehicle that was well maintained. It only has 24,000 miles on it and has been very reliable up to this point. The 3 year/36,000 mile warranty is still in effect, as well as the 10 year/100,000 mile and we're just getting a run around. Let's also not forget that the original dealership diagnosed the car and said it had a blown engine. It should also be noted that in all of this I have never been handed one piece of paperwork from either dealership. NOTHING. We haven't been asked to sign anything.

    There is NO PAPERWORK trail on any of this. Sure seems strange based on my experience with other manufacturers/dealers.
  • ramblinmoramblinmo Member Posts: 38
    (Will this post get pulled?)

    If you do a g o o g l e search for Kia forums, the first link you will find has a forum that has a person that says they work for Kia. Second post under the Kia Carens & Rondo forum titled "Just bought a Rondo EX V6"

    You might want to share your story over there also. Sounds like this district manager needs a new line of work that doesn't involve dealing with customers.

    Kia can't afford bad publicity and Edmunds has a ton of viewers.

    If you haven't done a review of your Sedona, you might do so with an abbreviated version of your story. Just make sure you come back and give us updates and update your review if Kia makes good.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Very disappointing story. We are 2nd-time Sedona owners and obviously never had anything close to the experience you reported. Very sorry to hear about this.

    The worrying thing for me is, why would the Kia District Manager act like this? It seems to me his job performance must be driven by how many 'incidents' he is able to deny/refuse company responsibility? It makes no sense why he would treat a customer so poorly, unless it really matters to him personally that he NOT agree for Kia to repair the engine.

    The negative publicity of this story for Kia surely outweighs the cost -- what would this have been, a $1,000 repair? -- to just fix the vehicle in the first place?!

    You probably should have demanded some paperwork at several points during this process. This leaves you in a much weaker position, since all parties involved can deny or claim pretty much anything they want.
  • chrisseniorchrissenior Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the additional information. I do have an abbreviated version of this incident but I always go "full boat" if given the space because the whole scenario is almost unbelievable when told in its entirety. It seems the only way I can can make my point is to post this on all reputable sites. Thanks again for reading and for your guidance on where to take this from here.
  • chrisseniorchrissenior Member Posts: 4
    The car served us well so don't be down on a Sedona. I really took a chance with the brand in 2004 because it was the only 5 star crash-rated mini van at the time. I wanted safety for my daughter and granddaughter. I can't imagine what the motivation is for this DM to be acting this way. My lease is up in June and I was planning on getting another Sedona. Needless to say....I've canceled that thought.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    We took an even bigger plunge...bought a 2002 Sedona EX about halfway through that first model year. It was extremely reliable, very few warranty repairs, no non-warranty repairs. We traded it in @ 73k miles on a new 2006 EX. So far, we are pleased with the '06 after just 4k miles. This one has not been back to the dealer for any problems yet.

    It just worries me that Kia's district/regional manager issue resolution process MIGHT really be terrible and very unlikely to do the right thing for the customer. I won't be selling my Sedona out of fear, but it sticks in the back of my mind as a down point.
  • fishbreathfishbreath Member Posts: 58
    Bought my 06 LX back in Oct. I have 5,000 on it and only a slow lead in one of the tires. I'm glad to here the good reports on the van. Reading all the bad one's gets me a little worried. I love it but the gas mileage could be better but then its not my daily driver so I can live with the mileage.
  • capecoralbillcapecoralbill Member Posts: 51
    My Entourage (4200 miles bought on Nov 25th build date of June 14,2006)would not start, I put the key in the ignition as always, dash lit up but the starter did not turn over, did not hear any click from the solenoid either. Hyundai towed it to the dealership on Saturday afternoon, and put the keys in the drop box, as service closed at 2:00pm
    I read the manual but the Imobiliser (IC chip in ignition key) symbol (supposed to look like a mini van with a key on its side) did not appear on the instrument panel, so that was not it.
    I read Edmonds town talk on the Entourage and Sedona sites, something was said about
    (On Feb 16th James61 called the service manager at Kia of Cheyenne and found out) the part they replaced on brandih's Sedona was the Junction Box (the small fuse box located by the drivers left knee).

    So, this morning I drove over to the Dealers lot, found my car in the back, I have an extra set of keys and remote. I removed the Fuse box cover (at the drivers left knee) and jiggled a bunch of wires behind the panel, one has a yellow connecter and clip which I undid, unplugged and replugged, but that did not fix it. Then I grabbed the bigger bunch of wires behind the fuse panel and next to the yellow connecter. It has some sort of gray plastic clip holding the wires close to the back of the fuse panel. I loosened the clip but could not unplug anything, I could not see well enough to know whether that was just a wire harness holder or a connector. Any way I wiggled the heck out of that bunch of wires but still it would not start. Then I wiggled the fuse panel itself (it feels a bit flimsy), and at the same time (for no particular reason), I set and undid the Parking brake. It caused a little vibration when the pedal returned to the off position. THE VAN STARTED RIGHT UP, AND HAS DONE SO WITHOUT FAULT ALL DAY TODAY (approx 12 times, lot of errands today).
    I’m not sure how to report this to the dealer, but they have my keys and a towing bill, hopefully I can get this documented somehow in case this happens again (hope its not a lemon).
    Thanks for listening… anymore updates?
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