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Buying a Used 3-Series

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Comments

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I say shoot for between $4500 -$5000 off their asking price. They might hold on to it because of the low mileage, but you should get at least $2500 off their asking price.

    Don't be afraid of a higher mileage BMW. My Mom recently turned in an '08 328Xi with over 63,000 miles and it looked & drove like new. You might definitely want to look into the extended maintenance (6 yrs/100K) as there are quite a fewthings that need to be done right after (or not too long after) the car rolls over 50,000 miles (Front Brakes, Rear Brakes, Inspection II major $ervice.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I don't know where you live, but if this is a non-BMW dealer, their price would still be high here in NJ. That car has a trade-in value right around $21k. I wouldn't be paying anything more than $24k for it, personally.

    CPO would be a different story.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Is it CPO?

    The buyout was actually fairly accurate. Trade-in is near $24k. So $27k is a fair enough retail price. $29k is more like a CPO transaction.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    Thanks for your reply. May I ask how you determined these amounts? I was looking at what I know and what I assume. I know that the residual was $27K. The dealer acquires these car at substantial savings from BMW financial if the owner opts not to buy. My friend who worked for Black Book for several years provided me with current auction results on this model and indicated from her data that the dealer probably owns this car for roughly $22,500 and $23,000 as wholesale (premium for mileage). Using this and adding roughly $1,600 for Certification, that puts an investment by the dealer at roughly 24K and 24.6K. Asking price is $29,998, so a starting bid of $26.5 seems reasonable. I would like to know if you have any additional information that would provide me with a rational reason for asking this price. Thanks again.
  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    gbrozen, thanks for your reply. Your email came in as I was submitting mine. It is a Certified car and is at a BMW dealership. Based on this information, I see that you think $29K is reasonable. That sounds high to me. I know that they get these cars for much less than residual, so I was using this as a starting point. Is $2-3K profit enough for these guys to sell?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited January 2011
    $2-$3k profit is fair. But CPO'ing a BMW, as I understand it, costs the dealer a significant amount. So if you assume $2500 profit, plus $1500-$2500 CPO cost, then we're talking $4k-5k over trade-in as a fair buy price.

    Using my Galves number, which is what a dealer would pay for that car here in the northeast US, its about $24k trade. So that puts a fair retail number at somewhere around $28k-$29k.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    Can you check your Galves number for the Chicago area? I know that the dealer that I returned my 07 to spent $3300 on CPO, but $1500 of that was new tires. In this case the sales person suggested that they would most likely not put new tires on a 9,000 mile car. They are putting a new battery in and as far as I know, that's it other than the usual inspection and detail. Certainly understandable.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Galves doesn't work that way. It is just one number. The reason I say its northeast is only because it is a tool used primarily in the northeast (so I've been told by salespeople in other regions).

    If it is any consolation, I've compared Galves to Mannheim numbers on hundreds of occassions, and they match up 99% of the time. So it is a safe bet that the numbers I'm giving you apply in your area, too.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    I see. I wasn't aware of this number until I saw it on this board. So what you are saying is my base line should be more like $24K and build from there? $24K plus Certification plus profit? Looks like about $28K.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    you got it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    arctic56

    I've kind of got a 6th sense for these kind of things. gbrozen is kind of the resident expert around here because he has a GALVES subscription. What he has to say actually holds water.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    Thanks for your input. What I don't understand is how the Galves number is derived. As an example, is it a percentage of the residual? Is it a combination of several factors? Is it a multiple of current Black Book auction results? I would like to understand this so that I can try to apply it to other BMW 328xi i am finding that I may consider.

    There are the following: asking price, residual price (if you happen to now it), Galves, wholesale price, bottom selling price, etc. Just trying to find the magic formula....
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    I'm sure Galves gets their numbers from the wholesale auctions..

    Actually, all wholesale price guides do.... The value of the guides depends on the timeliness of their information...

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  • birchhillbirchhill Member Posts: 4
    Here is a question: Is the CPO premium worth it? I had convinced myself that it was worth buying from a dealer to get a CPO vehicle. Does it make more sense to buy a less expensive car and have it carefully evaluated? What do the experts think? Appreciate all of your expertise.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2011
    I think that unless you are talented mechanically and/or have lots of BMW club connections and a willingness to shop around, improvise and "get 'er done", you'd be well advised to always pack a lot of protection into your used BMW; however, this is just my two cents about it, and a *lot* depends on the integrity of the dealer. A CPO car can turn into a lemon, too. CPO is no guarantee of paradise.

    I myself wouldn't spend the extra money but I feel I have two advantages---one, I can fix some things myself and two, I have a great network of parts and indie repair shops to help me.

    If the question were about a 7 series, I'd have no hesitation to tell you to go CPO all the way no matter who you were.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    As the host said, it is from auction values. Galves updates theirs on a weekly basis.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Galves numbers are REAL.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I like Galves because they understand that so called 'retail pricing' is a very mushy database, so they don't use it. It's simply too difficult to get reliable retail price information, especially from dealers, whereas auction pricing can be gleaned in large numbers from sources that aren't interesting in manipulating their reports.

    In the appraisal business, we refer to some online retail price guides as "wish books", as in "I WISH my car were worth that much". :P
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    Found a used '02....have never owned a BMW before have owned several Mercedes over the years. This is a very nice and clean car with 158,000 miles on it. Very high but its a one owner car that was mainly driven on the interstate.

    What are the main things I need to look for as far as maintenance and repairs? Supposedly the control arms were replaced last week.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Man with that many miles it could be anything. Best thing is to go over the service records and try to determine what's never been looked at, and go there first---so belts, hoses, battery, exhaust/catalytic, exhaust hangers, water leaks (bad seals around windows and doors) control arm bushings front and back, all the fluids (ever changed?),wiper blades, brake rotors, that sort of thing. Also play with every switch and knob and find out what's not working (being German, there will be something that's dead).
  • yogikoypyogikoyp Member Posts: 5
    i'm in the market for BMW 328i coupe or 335i coupe. i called the dealer about the promotion which they have it online.

    the salesman said that if i get 100k mile warranty, i have to get a loan @ BMW Finance which is around 6%+, they won't allow me to get my own loan since i get the promotion. That's suck and i told the salesman that i can get the loan @ PenFed.com for 3.25%. i told him the promotion is worthless and either way it's cost money to either finance or not. I think a promotion from BMW is a scam.

    promotion - $1500 credit or .9% for 24 months, 2.9% for 36-60 months or 6/100k miles warranty
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I don't know why you bothered to call the dealer.

    Right there on the website, it says "you must enter into a retail installment sale contract...using standard BMW FS rates."
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Can you take out the loan and refinance it later? I've done that before to get a deal done.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    Anecdotal evidence suggests you have to keep the loan for 6 months, before refinancing, to get the deal...

    Of course, you have interest rate risk during that time...

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  • jeff226jeff226 Member Posts: 1
    I found a 2008 238xi, Alpine white,22k miles, cold weather, premium (dakota leather), sport, paddle shifters. The dealer (prestige in ramsey, nj) is asking 29k. I love the car but i'm afraid this may cloud my judgement when it comes to the money part. :)

    Anybody have some thoughts?
  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    For what it is worth. I recently bought a 2008 328xi, cold package, premium package, NAV, fold down back seat, leather, 36K miles, black sapphire met. on beige. Certified local car here in Chicago area. Dealer was asking 29K, I offered 26.5K and they came back at 28K and came up to 27K. They came back at 27.4K and held my ground at 27K. They took it. I think I could have done better if I hadn't had a trade that I ultimately pulled off the table. Based on previous information I was able to determine that the lease return residual was roughly 28K. I figure they bought the car from BMW finance for about 23K. I added the usual $1,500 for CPO and $2,000 profit and that is where I started. I could have pushed harder from the beginning, but two volley's each is about all I can deal with.
  • southviewsouthview Member Posts: 1
    Hi folks,

    A forum newbie here so I ask for forgiveness in advance should I stumble.

    I was shoping for a Mini, or an A4. For grins (I would never want (or be able to afford, a BMW...) I stopped in and tried out a 2006 325i. I was shocked at the experience. Haunted, as I put it to a friend pushing the A4. Super comfortable driving experience. An actual driving experience that did not seem like it would be tireing. Quiet, nice punch, and then the cornering... wow. I had forgotten it could be fun to drive!

    I have located a CPO good till Dec 22), 2006 325i with premium package, automatic with 39,500 miles for an OTD price of $20k, Tags et al.

    What questions have I not asked that I should?
    They say only 2007 can qualify for BMW financing so I should go with my 6.3% bank financing.
    CarFax is clean for what that seems to be worth. Appears to have been leased 40 miles from where I found it (different dealership) then reregistered in CA for a year, then back to FL for the remainder of the run.
    Artic Silver with Tan interior.
    Looks very clean to me.

    Thoughts? Thanks so much.
  • ctfarmboyctfarmboy Member Posts: 11
    i've been looking at getting a CPO '08 328xi (prestige in Ramsey NJ) and i'm curious how you know that a dealer is buying a car with a residual of 28k for 23k. is this discount typical? they have a large stock and are receiving lease returns on a daily basis. if this is true, based on your calcs i should be shooting for a couple % under the residual.
  • rwolffrwolff Member Posts: 19
    I was recently talking to Prestige in Ramsey about some 3 series CPOs but never ventured up there. Something about the salesman I spoke to a few times that I just didn't like the approach. I know they have a lot of cars and some good deals but I couldn't answer you question about residual values, etc. I would just get all the specs on the car and do appraisals from edmunds, kbb and nada and see what the average is vs the dealer's price and go from there.
    I just purchased a 07 335xi w/ 15K miles, premium and cold weather weather packages, original maintenance until 11/2011 then CPO for two more years. Traded in my 2000 Audi A4 2.8 quattro and got the car for 23,400. I have my fingers crossed that the HPFP holds out or at least fails within the 10yr/120K mile warranty. BMW of Bloomfield. I would check them out. Very nice staff, no pressure tactics and upfront.
    I would appreciate anyone giving me a reference for a reputable independent mechanic who works on BMW's in the tri state area, northern NJ preferrably, Bergen county. Thanks.
  • fomentarfomentar Member Posts: 49
    I'm considering a 2008 335xi, 35K miles. 2 door coupe, cold weather pkg, sport pkg, premium pkg, Nav, sport steering whl w/paddles, steptronic automatic trans, dynamic cruise, ipod adapter, premium hi-fi. Dealer asking $34,999. Edmunds CPO is $36,478 and KBB is $37,510 I would appreciate thoughts on pricing and negotiating position. Thanks.
  • meach88meach88 Member Posts: 2
    A private seller has a CPO (warranty through the end of 2012, maitnance NOT included though) with 52K miles on it. All options except Nav, manual transmission. He wants $19K for it (firm). It looks like Edmonds has the TMV at around $18K. I know that the TMV isn't the end all be all, but is that decent price or should I continue to shop (should I be gunning for that $18 or less number as the trade in on is that much lower...?) What do you think the resale value of the car would be in 3 or 4 years? Thanks in advance.
  • meach88meach88 Member Posts: 2
  • drew11mdrew11m Guest Posts: 85
    Looking at a CPO 328i, 25k miles, just off a single-owner lease. Carfax showed it was in North Carolina until turned in and sold at auction after CPO'ing it. It did mention one accident, but didnt report on severity, however if it CPO'd im guessing it couldnt have been anything more than minor. Warrantied through March of 14 with the 2yr CPO add-on

    Car is a sedan, comes with premium package w/heated seats, Sat radio, and moonroof. Grey dakota leather interior.

    Dealer in Georgia im talking with it has it listed at 27,350, which seems reasonable for that mileage and package compared to other 08 328i's with similar mileage and packages.

    Any thoughts appreciated!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    The accident may have been minor, but I wouldn't automatically assume that because it's CPO.. Even though a CPO should meet certain standards, it's still one person at one local dealership making that determination... If you are serious about the car, get it checked out.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    Guessing that car has to be a 2006 model?

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  • drew11mdrew11m Guest Posts: 85
    edited March 2011
    Thanks for the advice.

    Regarding the accident, the fact there was something was the only thing the carfax report showed on the car, where else would i be able to get any information? This is the carfax report that the dealer posted on their site.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    Point out the CarFax accident report to the dealer, and ask them to show you where the damage occurred.. Don't let any used car manager tell you that they don't see it.. They are skilled at spotting paint work..

    If you get really serious about the car, find a reputable local body shop, and see if one of their people (body repair person) will go with you to look at the car (guessing that most guys would be happy to spend an hour of their time after work for an extra $50).

    I bought a "factory official" BMW once, that I found out later had $4000 of body work done to the sheet metal on the passenger side of the car.. It was noted right on the BMW vehicle history report, because it happened while the car belonged to BMW NA... This didn't really involve any dishonesty, but it just goes to show that any car could have had significant body work...

    I wouldn't pass up a good deal over a re-painted quarter panel... but, if the accident got into suspension issues, I'd take a pass.. I like to do my own damage..lol..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • drew11mdrew11m Guest Posts: 85
    great advice, thanks
  • drew11mdrew11m Guest Posts: 85
    So, the salesman finally sends me the inspection report from when they acquired it. (although not the BMW CPO inspection report) Despite him telling me there was no damage, the report indicated multiple scratches and dings and "curb" rash, most of which was repaired and some of which was not. The tire tread depth was 6/32 on all 4, and the dealer indicated no replacement of tires. Dents were on all 4 doors,a quarter panel and the rear bumper too...

    I am sure the bulk of this is cosmetic (tells you something about the previous buyer too) and has been buffed out or popped out, but at this point, I dont really trust them. They still haven't detailed the car or taken interior pictures, he keeps pushing me to sign documents from out-of-state, car sight unseen.

    I just located a 2008 328xi in Connecticut with 25K miles, premium and cold packages and Ipod adaptor for a starting negotiating point of 27K. Best thing is my dad can personally inspect it.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    I would never buy a 3-yr-old car, sight unseen.. I think my limit would be 1 year and 10K..

    There is no shortage of '08s coming off lease...wait for the right one...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree with kyfdx on this... You already seem uneasy about the dealer relationship on this car.

    I suggest you go with your gut feeling and walk away. There are too many other cars to choose from...
  • drew11mdrew11m Guest Posts: 85
    i did walk away. I dont like sales people who wont answer the questions you actually ask them.

    I found a couple more 328xi's that fit the bill close to my father, he will go and do the due diligence (he has a 535) and inspect them and let me know if they are worth the investment.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone!
  • sirius9sirius9 Member Posts: 13
    edited April 2011
    Is a 2009 328xi with 28K miles, black/black w/ premium and cold weather at $26,500 a good deal? Not CPO, but 4 yr/50K maintenance. Dealer isn't sure, but should have the ipod hookup/bluetooth too.

    Gonna visit the car on Monday to make sure it looks ok (body looks ok in pics) and if it does, getting my mechanic to inspect.

    TIA.
  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    edited April 2011
    I paid that for a 2008 with 32K, premium with Nav, so I would say it sounds pretty good. I would want to know why it is not going to be CPO'd though. Have you checked the carfax on this car? It probably needs tires which those are run-flats and aren't cheap. Once again I would wonder why the dealer doesn't want it as a CPO considering the mileage. Ask to see the records on the car. They will have them and should be willing to show them to you. One other thing. Carfax only tells you what someone has reported, so they are not always fully reliable. Good luck.
  • psyevolutionpsyevolution Member Posts: 26
    DEALER ASKED FOR 22000 OTD .... HAS TEST DRIVE ON IT, BODY LOOK OK.. RIM HAS SOME SCRATCHES,
    INTERIOR ,, LOOKS FAIR.... NO NAV, NO PREMIUM , ONLY WEATHER PACKAGE...
  • sirius9sirius9 Member Posts: 13
    edited April 2011
    I have to figure out the deal on the CPO - the guy is a wholesaler so I don't know. Haven't seen any paperwork yet - but def want to see it all before I consider making the deal.

    I've read lots of mixed reviews on run-flats...it's going to be my first experience with them. Can I use a penny to check the wear like any other tire? Do you know how much they should run me? TIA.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    HINT: TURN OFF CAPS OR NO ONE WILL RESPOND.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I've read lots of mixed reviews on run-flats...it's going to be my first experience with them. Can I use a penny to check the wear like any other tire? Do you know how much they should run me?

    Just fit regular tires when the RFTs wear out. Just buy a Continental or BMW mobility kit(electric air pump and sealant) and keep it in the trunk.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    Okay, "a wholesaler?" only BMW dealers offer CPO cars, so that answers that question. It is possible that the dealer that took the car back off of lease either didn't want the car or had already completed his quota of CPO's. As I understand it, BMW dealers have to do X amount of CPO's to meet a quota. BMW finance is who drives this because they make the dealer buy them once they come in off of lease. They do however buy them low enough (way lower than residual) from BMW finance that they can put $1500 to $2000 back into the car and still sell at a profit including $2-$3K in commission. When the numbers don't add up, i.e., body repair, paint, tires, interior repairs that exceed this amount, they usually put the car through auction where the wholesalers and other used car dealers buy to resell. To be honest, you can go to a dealer, select a CPO car with known paperwork and negotiate your deal and know as much about your car as possible. Look for one that has been returned to the same dealership as it was originally purchased. A 2009 3 series where I live, with this mileage would be priced at around $28.9K and well within reach of what you are looking to pay for this one from a wholesaler. How is a wholesaler able to offer you the 4 year 50K mile warranty? Do your homework before you fall in love with a car that you regret later. Believe me, there are tons of Black on Black 328xi's out there and many more to come in off lease in the next few months.
  • arctic56arctic56 Member Posts: 17
    Not a bad idea if you live in a city where help is always right around the corner. If you travel long distances or back roads, maybe not such a good idea. Remember, if you go with standard tires, YOU HAVE NO SPARE if a sidewall blows, or other more significant damage that can't be repaired with a can of sealant and an air pump.
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