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Hyundai wants Jaguar. Good idea?
The Guardian (London) is reporting that Hyundai wants to buy Jaguar.
Hyundai sees Jaguar as a quick way to enter the premium vehicle market. Ford is exploring the sale of Jaguar and Hyundai has the money for a deal.
"Jaguar...owned by Hyundai of Korea? The...seismic shift in the British carmaking landscape could be just around the corner"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1837984,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=- - - 24
Hyundai sees Jaguar as a quick way to enter the premium vehicle market. Ford is exploring the sale of Jaguar and Hyundai has the money for a deal.
"Jaguar...owned by Hyundai of Korea? The...seismic shift in the British carmaking landscape could be just around the corner"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1837984,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=- - - 24
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The new aluminum frame Jaguars are as good as they have ever been. But somewhere along the way, the brand has lost all of its afficianados.
Hyundai ownership is not going to change that.
My understanding is both are on the way out, and both played a big part in bringing Jaguar's esteem down further than it had been.
The large sedans, coupe and convertible that truly mean Jaguar to the world share nothing with the rest of Ford.
Ford did a great job with these cars. But they cannot amortize that work anywhere else.
At least Jag has a smidge of identity. Take away the X-type and Jag still maintains a sense of style and flair not found in your typical Ford vehicle. I don't know, maybe I am completely wrong in this but I think if anything, Ford needs to drop Lincoln and even Mercury, pool that money to come up with a killer RWD/AWD ONLY lineup that rivals the best from Germany and heres an idea :surprise: :
Merge the Jag dealers with Land Rover and voila you've got one hell of a lineup! I think it would be much more successful than what is happening at Merc/Lin at the moment.
On a side note, LLN was reporting a possible inclusion of Land Rover to sweeten the deal for the potential buyer of Jaguar. Not sure if that was for real though.
A fair amount of engineering expertise and components has been shared among Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston-Martin, from what I've read.
That is so true. The new cars are great: Jaguar XJ sedans and the XK lines still have the premium image.
Is there only so much room in the premium field? Jag is very English and offers a real alternative.
Hyundai can't do worse with Jaguar than Ford. Asian companies have a lot of respect for tradition and heritage which may help.
Could well be. But none of them are making a dime. Porsche and BMW almost overnight devasted LR's hold on the luxe SUV market.
Aston's are even cooler than the new Jaguars. But what does it matter, when you only sell 4 or 5 (joking) a year?
Jaguar has made a series of mistakes that have cost them dearly. The next XJ is a good car, but it looks too much like the old one. They're supposed to be fixing that for 2009. The new XK is for the most part done right, but it can't save the company.
Like some have stated earlier all Jaguar needs is a little more investment and time under Ford (well a healthy Ford). All Jaguar needs a new rwd platform that can be shortened or lengthened depending on the model in question. Such a platform could underpin the next X-Type, S-Type and that F-Type sports car concept they showed a few years back. Take the new Volvo I6 and tune it for more hp and lastly give the aged (and not underpowered) AJ V8 a complete re-work and Jaguar's problems would be solved. The cost of all of this you ask? About 2-3 billion bucks that Ford doesn't have right now.
Then there is something else to think about, the stigma of being owned by "Hyundai". It is one thing to be owned by Ford, but Hyundai? Already the uninformed say that Jaguars are nothing but re-badged Fords so you can imagine what will be said if Hyundai buys Jaguar.
I think Ford should sell off Jaguar and Land Rover because Land Rover faces an extremely uphill battle selling nothing but SUVs and Jaguar is dying anway so I say chuck them both. Keep Volvo, they make money and the safety engineering is priceless, and Aston-Martin is so small, but gorgeous enough to survive due to their clients being rich enough not to care about "gasoline prices".
I have to admit though I like the idea of a Jaguar/Land Rover/Aston-Martin alliance and the sharing of showrooms wherever possible, but with all that British luxury Ford really needs to question the need for Lincoln, another dying brand.
Ford had gotten itself into the same situation as GM, too big, too many model lines to cover and not enough money to do it.
M
Agree pretty much with your thoughts on Jaguar. I do worry whether any level of investment will bring it back, but tend to agree the tradition and fundamentals are there for someone with the money to spend.
Also agree on Ford/Volvo. Selling Volvo now would just about kill Ford. Ford has a chance to make the Volvo alliance the standard for these sort of mergers. It needs to get rid of the distractions from Jag/Rover/Aston and concentrate on its bread and butter.
IMO the Jaguar name still evokes a very positive image. With the proper investment and promotion it could revive to be a force in the premium car field.
Hyundai has the money to do the job. I hope Hyundai has (or will hire) people who understand what the Jaguar name represents. It would be sad if Hyundai took the Jaguar name and ran off on a tangent that spoiled the brand image.
http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml
Rocky
The way I see it all the components to "fix" Jaguar are there except for that state of the art, but inexpensive rwd platform needed to underpin the X,S and F-Types. The new I6 from Volvo surely can be re-worked to get another 40hp and the AJ V8 can be shipped out to any number of engine specialist Ford does business with to get it into the 360hp+ neighborhood with various MB, BMW and Lexus V8s.
Imagine a new true-rwd X-Type with a real honest to goodness I6! Ditto for a F-Type roadster. Jaguar would all of sudden be back in business in a big way, IMO.
M
Here is the full thing, found this on a Canadian car site:
A report from the Sunday Times Newspaper in London suggested that Ford Motor Company was planning to divest itself of Land Rover and Jaguar divisions in the UK as a part of its shake-up of British brands.
According to the Sunday Times, the company planned to package the two
brands together and sell a majority stake to a financial investor. The decision was reportedly led by senior management at the company, headed by Bill Ford. The possibility was also mentioned of retaining Jaguar and focusing on exclusive luxury sports cars and limited production.
The Times reported that Bill Ford had sent a memo indicating that adviser Kenneth Leet would look into strategic options for the company. Leet's background in mergers and acquisitions led some to believe that disposal would be a more likely course of action.
Replying to the news, Ford announced recently that it has no plans to sell their stake in Jaguar and Land rover and that the rumors were unfounded. Ford has owned Jaguar since 1989 and is presently considering all options for the brand.
Look at what Lexus has done using Toyota platforms. Lexus customers do not have the impression they are buying an 'fancy Toyota': many have no idea Lexus cars share anything with Toyota. Acura and Infiniti have been able to do the same using basic Honda and Nissan platforms.
Upline (e.g. Lexus) cars may cost 15% more to build but sell for 40% more. Plataform sharing is a very profitable deal.
Rocky
And worse yet, persistent issues with quality control and dealer service are tightening the noose around Jaguar and Land Rover. 2006 is a viciously competitive market and "good enough" isn't good enough anymore IMO. The marketplace in America is very "mature" (aka crowded)and mistakes cost more and hurt more than ever before.
Rocky
Rocky
Gotta disagree there, Toyota/Lexus buyers might not know this, but everyone else does. The ES350 is often called a fancy Camry. Nissan and Honda in particular are not too skilled when it comes to sharing platforms while producing a product that differs greatly from its platform mate. At Honda everything is based on the Accord platorm and that includes Acura which is now being pressed into irrelevancy because of the limitations of fwd in a rwd dominated sports sedan market and the use of V6s accross the board. I agree when you build a sedan and then turn around and build a cross over or a suv on the same platform they're pretty good at this, but when it comes to cars and making them different, beyond the styling in some cases, Honda and Toyota's practices are obvious.
M
"Get ready to be disappointed, Jaguar fans: rumors coming out of Dearborn...the Hyundai conglomerate is acquiring Jaguar and perhaps Land Rover... Kia, part of Hyundai, is said to be the new home for the Jaguar brand."
Read more: http://www.autoextremist.com/page6.shtml
True, but what matters to Toyota is the profit they make from Lexus buyers to whom shared platforms are a non-issue. Most Lexus owners won't believe you if you explain how much Toyota and Lexus cars have in common.
People who buy Eruopean and American brands seem to be a lot more particular about platform sharing. I am not sure why that is.
Jag seems to have greatly improved quality the last 3 years, but poor old LR is dead last by most measurements.
Also: if Hyundai does buy Jaguar/LR, why ever would they turn the companies over to the Kia division?!
Jaguar is a dead horse IMO. Rover, being a specialty vehicle of sorts, might have a better chance as a charm on some big corporations bracelet....like Hummer perhas, or Bentley....
Yeah that is the product of synthetic branding gone wild. Lexus tends to cater to the most non-enthusiast buyers around, IMO.
People who buy Eruopean and American brands seem to be a lot more particular about platform sharing. I am not sure why that is.
IMO, more enthusiasts follow European and American brands to a degree, especially the Europeans ones.
M
The only way for such a union to work is for Hyundai to just stand back and let Jaguar do their thing within a (at first) generous budget. If they don't turn themselves around by a certain date or by a the time they use up a certain amount of Hyundai's money then the parent can step in, not before.
M
Heck, if nothing else, Ford kept the marque alive this long. If not for Ford, Jaguar would've died around 1990. Hyundai couldn't possibly do a worse job than British-Leyland.
IMO the right line starts with an F-Type that is clearly a successor to the XK-E. Start with a roadster and add a 2+2 fairly soon.
Sedans: one in the mold of the current S should be part of the line along with the XJ. Promote the British heritage, the 'Bentley at the right price' theme, rather than trying to be another Audi or MB.
The new XK cars are really good. Having a line of big GT cars fits with the rest of the line very well.
Smaller cars: Hyundai should let Jag pull out all the stops and designs a 100% right competitor to the BMW 3 series. A great driving experience combined with traditional Brit interior and Jag styling cues would be a huge hit. Offer a 2 door, convertible and a 4 door.
maybe someday....
Rocky
Still I like you guys' idea of producing a Jaguar that drove like a BMW 3 series and cost the same. That could be their only hope---and yet, what a formidable competitor they'd have to fight! Could Hyundai pull that off?
I know you are the type of guy that doesn't look beyond what you can see pal. I am quite the opposite. I go out on a limb and hope and many times get slapped right back. However I still find it fun to be such a optomistic person.
Neways I like I have said in the past like Jaguar alot and if Hyundai can bring the prices down and still make nice cars like they are doing with their 2 brands, then hell Im all for it. I'm not anti-South Korean or anything. South Korea, is a very strong upcoming democracy which very well could save peace someday if the North Koreans see South Korea's wealth and prosperity and do over throw "Kim Jung Menatally Ill"
Hyundai, I must admit has impressed me. OTOH I'm still not impressed with kia, but of course their cars would never be something I'd buy.
Rocky
I can't but if I do I'll post that.
Good post Shifty.
Rocky
Rocky
Of course, nothing is forever - but Lincoln has had a really profitable 80+ year run. They were very strong players in the luxury class for 50 or 60 of those years.
Henry M. Leland turned 21 in February of 1864. His first presidential vote was for a man he admired all his life, Abraham Lincoln. He named the car line in honor of the great president.
Blommberg has an informative article stating Hyundai is concentrating on its own operation before any acquisition talks:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6Ik95y2Pk24&refer=news
We'll see. The auto industry changes so fast, we'd never know what tomorrow brings...
As for Jaguar and the crooked H, the best way to make that union work is to have Hyundai handle the platform and drivetrain engineering (the invisibe stuff) and have Jaguar do the interior and exterior styling and suspension tuning (the visible stuff).
The engines lack a little compared to Benz and BMW, but not much. The Trannies are pretty darn good.
The biggest complaint about the XJ is that Jaguar was too mindful of its tradition and did not keep up with the times.
Many have complained the XK lacks a certain level of excitement. (I personally think it is a beautiful car)
Long and short, if Hyundai followed your advise, it risks losing the best thing Jaguar has going for it and keeping up where Jaguar is stumbling.
MINI? Nah, the new MINI really has nothing to do with the old MINI. It's an entirely new car totally disconnected from origins. Oddly enough though, it too will have some French Connection come 2007 (new 1.6 liter engine).
Maybe Renault should buy Jaguar? It's a powerhouse company, still a major force in racing, and distributes exciting product throughout the world. After all, many years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, Renault was a very prestigious marque internationally.
Renault/Nissan do not have top prestige cars.
Infinity could fill in with entry level and luxury sport. Jaguar could dump the X Series. Maybe keep the S. Personally, I would drop it, though.
Then let Jaguar concentrate on improving design, updating engines, etc.
There would be a lot less chance of culture shock between Jaguar and new ownership.
The truth of the matter is, Ford has been shopping, but there just aren't a lot of interested parties looking to take on Jag alone (GAZ pulled out, now Hyundai has too, maybe now a private investor from China may be the front-runner??). If anything, the possible sale would be made as a packaged deal, with other brands (Land Rover, Volvo, Aston Martin) involved to sweeten the pot.
Did Ford mismanage, or did they buy something that no one could save?
Jaguars are technically better than they have ever been. Making an X was probably an error. The S got good press and sold well for a while. The XK and XJ are as technically good as ever.
Finally, where do you get that Hyundai has dropped out? Rumors are Hyundai is looking. I've seen nothing about a yea or nea from either party.