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Pontiac Grand Prix Engine fires 3800 series II 1996-2003

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Comments

  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    I do have the email address of one of the GM investigators, but he asked me not to give it out on the Internet for obvious reasons. Therefore, I volunteered to collect contact information and forward it to him, but apparently this forum considers this offer some sort of weird solicitation and actually removed my previous posts (#53&#54). If you would like me to forward your information to them, please make your email address public in your profile and I will send you an email to establish direct contact, or send me a note via the email address in my profile.
  • outdoorladyoutdoorlady Member Posts: 14
    Please contact me regarding the investigation information.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    I have done a few things to help protect my GTP from fire damage. I have posted the details of one such modification for the sake of others looking for a possible fix, in advance of any official declaration from GM or NHTSA. Click on "tommy231" above and then go to "Visit my Carspace page" and checkout my photo album where I show the before and after photos of the modification I performed on my car.

    This modification should only be performed by a skilled Technician. If you choose to do this to your car, you do so at your own risk. This is probably not the single fix we've all been waiting for, but it does address an actual issue I found on my car.

    I am not saying your GTP has this issue too, but it might, and I am interested in knowing if it does. It is fairly easy to check if you know your way around an engine bay. It is a little more difficult to actually fix if it has the problem.

    The symptom I found was that there were two wires stuck to the side of the starter solenoid, which is under the front exhaust manifold. These wires connect directly to the battery without any fuse. They weren't completely melted through yet, but they looked to me like they might be on their way to failing.

    GM has been notified of this issue and they claim they are looking at this as one of many possible concerns. It does not seem likely that this is the primary problem as it would seemingly exhibit symptoms prior to failure, such as blinking lamps on the instrument panel, or brake related concerns. However, nobody that has had a GTP fire complained of any prior symptoms such as this.... or have they?

    Stay tuned...
  • racedriver11racedriver11 Member Posts: 2
    my 99 grand prix caught fire on may 25 2007 i was driving home and it began to smoke, i pulled over and when i shut the car off, none of the locks unlocked and the windows would not work, by the time i found the manual lock on the door, there was so much smoke that i could not see the steering wheel. is there anything or anyone i can talk to or contact about this?? my e-mail is rebelmotorsports_11@hotmail.com
  • racedriver11racedriver11 Member Posts: 2
    my 99 grand prix GT caught fire while i was driving on May 25 2007 my car filled up with smoke and none of the doors unlocked and none of the windows went down. GM needs to do something before somebody loses their life!
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    There is an open investigation in-progress with GM and NHTSA for 1999 through 2002 GTPs with the L67 3800 Supercharged Engine for underhood fires (http://tinyurl.com/3cljhx). These fires seem to start 5 to 15 minutes after shutting off the engine. There was an investigation for non-supercharged engines, but it is closed (http://tinyurl.com/29239v).
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    I looked at 2 other GTPs yesterday; a 1999 and another 2002. The 2002 had the same configuration as mine with the two wires coming off of the starter solenoid. However, neither wire was stuck to the solenoid, but they were both wedged under the positive battery cable such that a similar concern exists due to the pinching of the wires.

    The 1999 did not seem to have the 2 wires, or if it did they were routed differently. The engine was too warm to look closer at the time. The 1999 seemed to also have different heat shielding surrounding the fuel lines above the steering wheel area.
  • 05toering05toering Member Posts: 5
    Looks like the NHTSA investigation has been upgraded to an Engineering Analysis as of June 12th (EA07-008) and the other GM supercharged models have been included. They should include the 97 and 98 GTPs as well since those are identical, IMO. The lead investigator said he would consider those years but didn't have enough official complaints w/the NHTSA on file for those years.
  • jessica9jessica9 Member Posts: 12
  • juliehauglandjuliehaugland Member Posts: 8
    edited October 2015
    Please contact me regarding the investigation. I did send some picures to someone awhile back. If this is you, please let me know where the investigation stands. Thank you.

    Kind Regards,

    Julie Haugland
    [Email removed]
  • reekreek Member Posts: 1
    My wifes 1997 Grand prix caught on fire about year ago. The 3800 caught on fire right under the coil pack. My insurance fixed it but the dealer never said why it happened. The fire was put out rather quickly so it didn't do much damage($1200.)She was driving it right before it happened and it was running fine. She stopped and a few minutes later it was on fire.
    Haven't had any problems with it since.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    Hello Julie,

    I forwarded your contact information to GM. I presume from your note that they didn't contact you. My hope was, and still is, to find a vehicle that was caught early enough for them to get a better idea what the cause is. As you can imagine, it is nearly impossible to positively root-cause a fire when the vehicle is a total loss. Since your vehicle is not available for inspection, I don't think there was much they could do with your contact information. So I guess that just means you are one of the 180 names they have on file with this issue.

    NHTSA has closed their Preliminary Evaluation (PE07006) on GTP under-hood fires and has opened an Engineering Analysis (EA07008) on a wider range of GM vehicles. Non-supercharged engines are not part of the new effort either, as the investigation of those vehicles (EA02030) remains closed. Here is a link to the PDF that describes the new NHTSA initiative: http://tinyurl.com/yo8jnf

    According to EA07008, they still don't know the cause. However, the response given to NHTSA from GM, http://tinyurl.com/3832xa, had all the content eradicated, presumably for confidentiality reasons, so it is difficult to know the whole story. The good news is that many of these so-called Preliminary Evaluations, like PE07006, never advance to the Engineering Analysis level, so we are one step closer to a root-cause and a possible recall. If the subject vehicles are ever recalled for this issue, I am not sure what your available legal actions might be as I am sure you'll need to consult an Attorney for that advice.

    My personal investigation into this hasn't gone very far either. I posted one possible cause and my proposed fix for it. However, I doubt that this is the only cause, or the main cause, as some of the qualified vehicles I looked at were wired differently than mine and were therefore exempt from my concern. This weekend I plan to change my fuel injector o-rings as yet another precautionary measure.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    Hello Reek,

    Is yours supercharged? If not then it is not part of any open investigation I am aware of (see #69 above). If it is, then it was a perfect candidate for root-cause analysis.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    I find it interesting to note that in GM's NHTSA response, http://tinyurl.com/3xr4j5, the posted document failed to exclude the name of one of their suppliers, Bend All Automotive, Inc.

    According to Bend All's web site, http://www.bend-all.com/, their products include:

    · Transmission Oil Cooler Hose & Tube Assemblies.
    · Engine Oil Cooler Hose & Tube Assemblies.
    · Heater Hose and Tube Assemblies.
    · Air Conditioning Tubes.
    · Cooling-Radiator-Fan Module Assembly.

    Hmmm... I think I'll be taking a closer look at these components on my car.

    Of course it is entirely speculation that any of Bend All's products are suspected as a root cause.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    It seems that even the engine coolant should be suspected as an accelerant. The DEX-COOL MSDS says its autoignition temperature is 752 °F (400 °C), which is below the temperature of a hot exhaust manifold. It might be wise to make sure all the hoses and hose clamps on your GTP, or other L67 engine equipped-vehicle, are in good condition.

    http://www.havoline.com/images/products/pdfs/anti_exlife.pdf
  • crispy2000gtpcrispy2000gtp Member Posts: 7
    I bought an ENGINE FIRE 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 2dr from a salvage auction on 4/30/2007. It only has 77,284 ACTUAL miles. Appears to be a all-stock, well cared for, garage kept "cream puff" car. The engine fire was put out with a fire extinguisher pretty early. I emailed "tommy231" an engine pic. The only damage noticeable from the outside of the car is a palm sized paint discolor cirle on the outside of the hood. The battery still had a full charge and the interior lights went on when you opened the door (I've since disconnected the battery). I think this would be a perfect canidate for GM and/or NHTSA to examine! :sick: ">
    Mike in NC
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    Apparently, some of the fires did occur with the engine running. It seems that GM has a lot of information to deliver to NHTSA related to this.

    Here is a recent update I found.

    http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/20- 07/EA/INIM-EA07008-26093p.pdf

    Here is a shorter link if the one above gets broken:

    http://tinyurl.com/29afqx
  • tomh54tomh54 Member Posts: 4
    Today the transmission began to slip. I immediately pulled over and turned off the engine. Thick smoke started to billow from under the hood. All of the wiring on the driver side of the engine compartment was on fire. Appears that it may have started at the transmission sensor.

    Any other reports of this? Should it be included?

    Thanks
  • azcatmikeazcatmike Member Posts: 2
    My Grand Prix caught fire on 10/12/07 after approximately 10 minutes after parking my car in the driveway somebody knocked on my door telling me my car was on fire. I was able to put it out spraying water through the vents in the hood but by the time I was able to open the hood the fire had burned everything inside. The insurance adjuster came out to the mechanics garage and said it was totaled. Does GM & NHTSA still taking reports on this issue?
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    Please report it to both. Do you have any pictures? What city are you in?

    Tom
  • kopi32kopi32 Member Posts: 4
    My grand prix caught on fire this morning (10/29/07) after i parked it in the parking garage at my work. About 10 minutes after I went into the office, someone notified me it was in flames. Came back to the car and sure enough the whole engine compartment was in flames. How do i go about reporting this to GM & NHTSA? Do you know if there will be any reprecussions owed to me on behalf of GM? It seems like this is a somewhat consistent problem.

    Joe Kopinski
    Lockport, IL
  • azcatmikeazcatmike Member Posts: 2
    Yes I took pics, I'm in San Diego, CA
  • kopi32kopi32 Member Posts: 4
    This morning my 2000 grand prix gt had an engine compartment fire. Have you had any luck with GM?

    Joe Kopinski
    joseph.kopinski@gmail.com
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    I'd like to see some of the pictures, if you don't mind. I still hope to find vehicles that can be easily root-caused, as many are burned beyond what can be diagnosed. Cars that are burned badly are not helpful to them. I still hold on to hope that a solution will be found so I can prepare my own car before I become a victim myself. Please feel free to email me directly if you'd like.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    Last I checked, GM is still interested in looking at vehicles with minimal damage. You should be sure to report the incident both to NHTSA and GM. If it only has minor damage I can send your info to the GM contacts I've been talking to, as they might want to look at it. Otherwise, NHTSA and GM customer service are your best routes, in my personal opinion.
  • kopi32kopi32 Member Posts: 4
    Its major damage. The whole engine and part of the bumper and front left quarter panel are burned apart. The insurance is looking at it now, but i'm 99% sure they'll declare it totalled. I'll be sure to inform both the NHTSA and GM though. Thanks for your help.
  • morewasabimorewasabi Member Posts: 58
    Its my understanding that they are only investigating the Super Charge engine at this time. The non-supercharge engines had already been investigated. The supercharge engines have something like a 23 times greater chance of catching fire.
  • jonny97jonny97 Member Posts: 1
    I recently had my 97 Grand Prix catch fire after the engine had been shut off for 15 to 20 minutes. With some help I was able to pop the hood and extinguish the fire with a couple of small fire extinguishers. There was very minimal damage to the car. Just wires and any thing that is plastic is melted or deformed. This was a well maintain vehicle and the engine was completely stock.
  • barbijobarbijo Member Posts: 1
    A friend of mine has (Had!) a Pontiac Grand Prix, 1999. I am not sure what the engine was, but a couple weeks ago she arrived at work and about 10 minutes later someone told her the car was on fire. I guess that got it out fairly quickly. I can ask her for pictures. I think it might be minimal damage. In the meantime, her insurance company and the fire investigator is giving her a really hard time. Any numbers or contact info as to where she can report this would be appreciated.
  • bedensbedens Member Posts: 23
    Of course the insurance company and the fire investigator is giving her a really hard time and don't think GM will take responsibility. My 2001 grand prix burned in March, 2006 and I have gotten nowhere with this.
  • jessica9jessica9 Member Posts: 12
    Has anyone gotten anywhere with this? Is NHTSA or GM doing anything? I want to know what to do with my car,I am sick of it sitting in my drive way.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    If you haven't already, look through the entire discussion. There are posts that reference the NHTSA investigation.
  • apocolipseapocolipse Member Posts: 2
    Hey tommy23,
    Yesterday my 2001 Grand Prix GT went up in flames at an intersection. I had just filled the car up at the gas station (had the car off for about 10 mins i suppose), pulled out, idled at the red light, began to move at the green and BAM! went up in flames, lost all power steering and brakes, and was just able to pull into a parking lot beside the intersection. The car was running perfect before I pulled in to get gas... I don't understand! Now the car is at a compound and I need to give the insurance a call on monday. What do I do about this? I've never had this happen nor have any of my friends / family!
  • bedensbedens Member Posts: 23
    I am responding to this post. I had a 2001 Grand Prix GT. In March, 2006 mine went up in flames. I had driven it approximately 30 miles, switched it off and 15 minutes later it was in flames. I called my insurance company and I also called GM. GM sent someone to check it out and supposedlly they can't determine the cause of the fire. I have never gotten any kind of reimbursement from GM.
  • apocolipseapocolipse Member Posts: 2
    What did you get from Insurance?
  • j195j195 Member Posts: 1
    Hello,

    I just did a simple Google search and found this post / forum. My car started on fire 11/16/2007. I was standing at the light waiting when all of a sudden, I heard a loud bang, car started rattling, like on the cylinders died, then white smoke, then black smoke, after witch I saw fire. Fire department put showed up, but half of the car is burned, and what was not burned was flooded with water.

    This really sucks.
  • bedensbedens Member Posts: 23
    Just payoff on my car loan.
  • gearrgearr Member Posts: 21
    I have just got a 06 prix with a 3800 supercharged motor how can I find out what the series is.
    thanks gearr
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    As far as I know, 06 vehicles are not part of this NHTSA investigation.
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm?action_number=EA07- 008&SearchType=QuickSearch&summary=true
    or if that link doesn't work... http://tinyurl.com/2kxr4g
  • gearrgearr Member Posts: 21
    Thanks tommy
    Gearr
  • paula9paula9 Member Posts: 1
    My Pontiac caught fire on January 26, 2007 in my work parking lot. I had been there about 15 minutes when someone told me my car was on fire. The car drove fine before then and was well maintained. It was a total loss. Does anyone know if NHTSA or GM is still investigating this matter? It is amazing that GM is not willing to do anything after all the fires that have happened.
  • gtp03dawgtp03daw Member Posts: 16
    It's a pain for sure, my 99 GTP went up in flames within minutes of parking in 2003. Insurance claimed arson, GM denied the claim..4yrs later still nothing...Earlier posts have some links to the current investigation...
  • bedensbedens Member Posts: 23
    Paula,
    My 2001 Grand prix burned in March, 2006. GM is ot willing to take responsibility for all these fires. I did receive an email once from NHTSA but I haven't heard from them since.
  • gaffnejgaffnej Member Posts: 4
    Hi Everyone,

    My 1999 Grand Prix Supercharge 3800 v6 engine caught on fire Saturday November 24, 2007!!I was at a car wash selecting my wash, and putting some of my things in the trunk when I smelled smoke...I looked up and smoke was coming from under my hood. A burning part of my car dropped down from under the bottom of the engine area and a worker saw it, and informed me because I was still in the car. I was alone, but I hurt my right leg moving quickly to get out of the burning car, and when they let the hood up flames stood about 3 feet high. Another worker went in the oil change shop that they have on the premises and got a fire extinguisher and put the fire out. The fire was contained under the hood. God was with me!, I am sooo very blessed..I am a single Mother of two beautiful smart girls, and I so grateful that I am still here to Mother them!! My car is still in the shop and for repair. I have never had any problems with my car, all schedule maintenances have been completed, and I have had the car 6 years...and it runs good! I truly love my car, the proficient of the engine, the get up and go…this is just mind boggling on what caught on fire, and the safety of me and my two girls! The shop mechanics cannot figure out what started the fire, and how to repair...can I get some advice from you all? Thanks..HotinDuncan
  • bedensbedens Member Posts: 23
    You aren't the only one who has suffered a fire with their Grand Prix. I had a 2001 Grand Prix that caught fire and burned in March, 2006. GM will take no responsibility for the fires. I have been trying to get something done bout this for almost 2 years now.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    There is a lot of information about this in the other postings here. The NHTSA and GM have an on ongoing investigation in progress. As far as I know, GM is still interested in seeing vehicles that aren't too badly damaged. I know of one car they purchased outright for the light damage it had, making it one of the easy ones to diagnose. Total-loss failures are usually too difficult to root-cause. Do you have any pictures of the damage? I can send them to the contacts I have at GM if you are interested. However, they are not likely to do much for you, if anything, until the official investigation is closed.

    Tom
  • morewasabimorewasabi Member Posts: 58
    Wow! I have a question. You state that you had all scheduled maintenance done on your car. What was the last few maintenance items? Did you ever have the fuel system service/clean/flush? Valve cove gaskets replaced? I am curious as in researching the difference of the Supercharged 3800 vs. the non-Supercharged engine, there is a difference in the way the fuel rail system is engineered.

    Glad that you are ok!!!
  • becca87678becca87678 Member Posts: 1
    My mother's 99 Grand Prix GTP just caught fire last week, the liscence plate, tires and parts of the enegine were melted to the ground. I don't know if it was a 3800, but chances are based on what I'm hearing here. I don't know if you're still looking for replies but we'd be intersted in hearing what you have to say in terms of what information you may have, or something we could tell the insurance compay. You can contact me through email popcorn10_200210@hotmail.com.

    Thanks very much,
    Rebecca.
  • tommy231tommy231 Member Posts: 27
    You can click on the "prev" button below and read the previous posts on this subject.
  • gaffnejgaffnej Member Posts: 4
    The last few maintenance was an oil change, of course every 3,000 miles, pads on my brakes, tires rotated, those are the last few maintenace. Nothing to my fuel system service/clean/flush, and nothing to my valve cove gaskets replaced? I am not sure of the difference of the Supercharged 3800 vs. the non-Supercharged engine.
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