Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota RAV4 Throttle Lag

2»

Comments

  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Regardless of lack of mental capability of the idiot on the US throne at the moment our government is not altogether stupid.

    Bear with me for a moment and just briefly assume that my theory is correct that these 1999 to current MY transaxle problems have arisen out of the need to alleviate the potential for engine compression braking interferring with the anti-lock braking system.

    If that is the case and an investigation were to be opened the obvious conclusion would be, must be, that absent these new transaxle charactoristics all FWD or front torque biased AWD vehicles are inherently unsafe for operating on adverse, slippery, roadbed conditions.

    So were I the head of the NHTSA I wouldn't dare even open an investigation once Toyota informed me of the base purpose, cause, of these symptoms.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I've already voted and am hoping to avoid further political commentary for a couple of years so please take that stuff elsewhere. :shades:

    So, go slow to go fast - now wrap that in with transmission "learning" and tell me how confused the car is going to get? :shades:
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Personally I don't buy into that individual driver uniqueness learning bit whatsoever!

    Granted, these ECU's do have to "learn" the charactoristics of the individual sensors and in some cases deterministic forcing functions due to unavoidable tolerances. But I do not believe that any significant level of driver unique charactoristics "learning" is involved in the majority of these "driveability" complaints.

    Yes, most of these systems "watch" driver functions and according to the engineering white papers I have read will categorize each driver into one of four "bins" within a few seconds of first putting the vehicle in motion, and then with more time will refine the characterization into one of sixteen "bins".

    But all of the learning regarding individual driver unique charactoristics is ERASED each and every time the engine is (re)started.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Some cars do offer "sport" and "economy" modes - guess the next marketing push will be "16 bin selections" on the 2009 Smurfmobile.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Assuming the new shift pattern upshift technique is to help alleviate accidents due to loss of directional control arising for engine braking, why not just have a SNOW mode that can be activated by the driver, by a rain sensor, or if the OAT hovers around or below freezing.

    Upon a full lift-throttle event in SNOW mode the transaxle would remain in the same gear ratio but the engine RPM, via DBW, would not be allowed to fall enough to provide a significant level of engine braking to the driven wheels, front, rear, or ALL.

    Absent being in SNOW mode the shift patetrn could be the same as it was pre-2000.
  • edr5edr5 Member Posts: 1
    I have experienced the same throttle lag. Even worse, I pulled into a left turn lane, came to a stop briefly, nothing was coming, so I pushed the accelerator, the engine rev-ed - and the car did not accelerate at all! I pushed down a little more expecting it to kick in - and nothing but engine rev! So I took my foot off the gas completely and after about 10 seconds tried again and it went. I took it to the dealer - they said this was "normal." I repeated this back to the service manager and when you say it out loud "I push the accelerator and the car does not move," then it does not sound so "normal." They apparently did read this forum after I told them this was not the first RAV this has happened to. But they could not "recreate" the problem so they did nothing. The guy did admit that they can now re-flash Camry's with throttle lag, but they are not allowed to do that to RAV's.

    Now the stereo is going haywire. Sometimes it does not respond to the on/off button, and sometimes the display will not come on even though the controls work. Is there some kind of electronic problem that would affect both throttle control and the stereo? Seems unlikely but am curious.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    edr5,
    i'm sorry that your dealership is giving you the run-around.

    i've cited your post as a good application of a obd-ii reader and laptop to capture the very unsafe and non-normal operational behavior of your toyota vehicle - which your dealer is claiming is normal and won't do anything because (supposidly) they cannot re-create, they are not motivated to re-create, or re-creating will put them in a difficult situation.

    look here:
    user777, "2007 Toyota Camry Problems and Repairs" #4055, 29 Sep 2007 2:12 am

    w.r.t. your stereo: here's what may be happening: do you use the on/off control of the radio a lot? if so, it's possible carbon build-up from many uses (everytime you press on, a tiny spark is generated at the switch contacts causing arcing and oxidation) is causing the switch to fail to close the circuit to power up the unit because of accumulation. it's possible specialized electrical cleaner could be used on the switch if the radio was removed, but you'd best have that theory passed by someone.

    the radio display not working... sounds like it might be a loose connection to the radio or in the radio itself. sorry, i don't know more about the stereo in your vehicle.
  • cbmortoncbmorton Member Posts: 252
    Dealers will replace bad radios under a Toyota TSB that has been out since earlier this year. Had mine done in the spring after it started either going blank or displaying Japanese characters. The problem has not returned.
  • dsteinhorndsteinhorn Member Posts: 1
    I have had the same problem on a 2004 and brought it to the dealer's attention mutliple times without resolution. Fall 2007, I was told it needed a throttle body flush and had that done for $125 by the local dealer in Chicago (Grossinger). Today I took it in for an oil change and was told it needed another throttle body flush for another $125 and, by the way, did the throttle seem to stick...... When I challenged the service manager to justify needing another $125 throttle flush in just 4 months, he told me he makes recommendations based on what he sees. Watch out for these vultures. You never know what the real truth is.........
  • applebeeapplebee Member Posts: 2
    I have the opposite problem of the folks with throttle lag on my 2007 RAV4. On a number of occasions when braking to a stop in close quarters, the engine revs to 4000 rpm and I am unable to hold the car with full brake pressure. When I shift to neutral to stop the car the engine revs to 6500 rpm. Same problems with dealer, "no computer record of malfunction, unable to duplicate problem, everything meets factory specs." No help from Toyota either. NHTSA site indicates Lexus drive by wire system had similar problems and they did nothing.
    I found the discussion of the computer reacting differently to different driving styles to be interesting as this has only happened once to my wife who is the principal driver of the car and happens frequently to me, five times in the past weekend. Quite dangerous as I nearly scared to death a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
    What do I have to get Toyota to replace the sensors in the system, assuming that will fix this?
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    I assume you can verify that a car mat was not stuck in the pedal assembly leading to the event.

    I would forcefully suggest the dealer replace your accelerator pedal assembly and throttle body assembly. If you had an uncontrolled accelerator event which you could not control with application of the brake, that is pretty serious.

    You can't get the dealership to assume liability for the result of an accident.

    If the dealership won't work with you and replace these items at the least (and I'm assuming the problem could also be with the Engine Control Unit but am assuming it's more likely the pedal assembly or throttle body assemby at fault), then personally: I'd get out of the vehicle ASAP even if I had to take a loss.

    Your safety, the safety of others travelling with you, and the safety of others in the vicinity of your vehicle are more important than the financial loss.
  • porschecarreraporschecarrera Member Posts: 5
    Wondering what you mean by "I'd get out of the vehicle ASAP even if I had to take a loss."

    Hopefully, you're not implying that he sell the vehicle to another poor sucker.
    :(
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i wouldn't live with it for an extended period. my wife and my children would not ride in that vehicle.

    and no i don't believe in passing a problem like that along to another person...

    i'd report it to the nhsta:
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

    and to the manufacturer:
    http://www.toyota.com/help/contactus.html

    i wouldn't try to sell it private sale - i'd try to sell it back to a toyota dealership - the entity in the best position to replace some components to eliminate the behavior forcing me out of the vehicle.

    that's the best i could do. what would you propose for someone in that position?
  • mcase2mcase2 Member Posts: 160
    This forum reads just like the Camry forum. The Camry is suffering from the same down shifting, jerking, cruise control problems, and slamming into gears. I also see another shared symptom in this forum, that is Toyota's arrogant refusal to fix the problem and the strategy of blaming the customer. It is abundantly apparent that Toyota will NOT help the poor souls who purchased their products. The only recourse is for owners to get tough and relentlessly apply the lemon laws that are available in every state in the Union. Money is all these companies understand and forcing them to buy back their junk beats hell out of begging for help they will not provide.
  • goose602goose602 Member Posts: 3
    My RAV4 2007 actually kicks out of gear on deceleration/re-acceleration, for stoplights, tight turns and heavy stop and go traffic situations. It revs up to about 2000 rpm before it engages when I accelerate to proceed. This is a 1-3 second hesitation that I am told is normal for these vehicles...something about a bypass? Does anyone know about it? I was told originally, after the dealer re-set the computer, it was my driving causing the problem. They re-set it again and I had my husband, who drives entirely different from myself, drive it. Still it did the same thing. Finally the dealer had the manager, tech ride with me to see what was happening ( another tech actually took it home overnight). All gentlemen agreed there is a problem, but stated there are no bulletins or other complaints so they cannot do anything about it. I am now dealing with Toyota who said, as a complete surprise to me, that the dealer told them there is not a problem.
    I am very happy with most everything else about this vehicle. It is one of the best, most stable vehicles I have ever owned in snow, ice and slick conditions. It drives nicely and gets pretty good fuel mileage. But this transmission concerns me.
    Please respond with any information you might have concerning this condition. If it is 'normal', is there somewhere to look that explains the condition and what it is doing? If, as I have been told and believe, it is not normal, does anyone have experience or advice for me?
    Thank you
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Google for:

    wwest hesitation abolition dbw -dfg

    As of '08 Toyota has tried out a new fix, revised engine/transaxle ECU firmware that tries to determine the driver's "future" intent based on the rate at which the gas pedal is released. FAST, equaling/implying a coastdown intent and therefore the transaxle will more likely remain in the current gear ratio. Slow letup thereby implying an intent to enter cruise, constant speed mode, therefore an upshift if appropriate.
  • goose602goose602 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks wwest. I started reading the messages in this forum after I posted. There is a lot of information here that will help me when we meet with Toyota this Friday; though we will see if it makes a difference. I will report to this forum after the Friday meeting, Thank you everyone.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Be sure and ask for a copy of all (4 to 5 page list) the C-BEST options that are available, and ask for an understandable, US humankind understandable, explanation of each. There are at least 3 now that allow you to configure the climate control system more to your liking, SAFETY, and management needs.
  • goose602goose602 Member Posts: 3
    wwest, can you tell me the definition of the C-BEST options, or where I can google to find out, so I can better understand for what I am asking? My husband is not able to go with me to meet with the dealer and I need to have my ducks in a row as best I can. Thank you, Goose602
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I think...

    Custom Body Electronics Systems.......
  • cmr6cmr6 Member Posts: 5
    We noticed that this issue became progressively worse over time. The dealership told us that the car is programmed to "adapt" to our driving style. (We also noticed this same lag when we test drove Foresters, so Toyota is not the only manufacturer employing this "advancement".) The dealership wiped the "memory" and the problem disappeared. Of course, it is slowly returning. If there is a more permanent fix out there, please submit the service bulletin number and we can all have our RAV-4's fixed. Thanks.
  • mike375mike375 Member Posts: 1
    i have the same problem with my rav4 (2007). on four occasions over the last two years, from a stop, the throttle surges and am unable to control with the brake. i have not taken it in to dealer as in three of the four cases, there was no danger of an accident and the event did not occur on a regular basis. however, the surge occured yesterday and propelled me out into oncoming traffic, very narrowly avoiding an adident. if they cannot fix the problem, i will sell the vehicle. if anyone has found what the problem is , pleas reply.
  • applebeeapplebee Member Posts: 2
    Lot's of luck with your dealer who will probably try to tell you that you had your foot on the accelerator instead of the brake. Problem is you can't duplicate the problem to demonstrate it. Also the black box thing will have no record of it. If you're successful in getting it fixed, please share the secret.
  • cmr6cmr6 Member Posts: 5
    Have the dealer "wipe the memory" each time you have it serviced and in between service appnts if necessary. The computer is adapting to your driving style and, like any computer/software, it makes mistakes, becomes confused by multiple drivers, etc. I'm waiting for a more permanent fix as well. I read that they are reprogramming some other models for a similar problem. I hope that they will have a fix for the RAV-4 soon.
  • dals4everdals4ever Member Posts: 1
    Oh my...I had really not expected to see others with this problem. I just got treated like I was a total idiot by my dealer. I bought my 2007 Rav4 new on 7/30/07. Three weeks ago I get in it to go to work and it acts like it is not able to pull my drive way. The think felt like it was trying to pull the hill in 3rd gear. I was pressing the gas but it was like nothing was doing anything. I have lived in this same place for 20 years so it is not like it was a new spot that it would not pull. It felt like I was trying to pull a semi behind for all the power it had. When I got to level ground and tried to execellerate I had to push the gas pedal all the way to the floor. The thing reved to 6000 rpm's but did not move. It acted like it was in park and you were reving the engine. After about a 5 second hesitation it would jerk and take off but it had now power at all. When pulling onto the highway I thought I was gonna get killed. I press the gas and there is no power to get out of the way of traffic. Once again it felt like I was trying to take off in 3rd gear. Took me a mile to get up to speed limit. I would try to accelerate while I was at 60mpg to see if it had the power to pass. I actually had to STAND on the gas pedal holding it to the floor it revs 6000 rpms, hesitates, jerks and gears down like it is in low. There is no power to pass or to pull out into traffic. I feel like my powerful 4 cyl has been reduced to a 2 cyl. This all happened the weekend of July 4th. In a couple days it was fine so I put it out of my mind. Eleven days ago it started again. It was running fine when I went to work. When I got off I attempted to pull on to the highway. I started out and accelerated to go and NOTHING. Traffic was coming and I had practically pulled into the traffic and stopped in front of them because I would not go. I had to rev almost 7000 rpm's and go to 72 mph before the thing would ever change gears and take off when excellerated. All this time the engine reved as if it was in park and I was flooring the gas pedal. I called the dealer and took it in. I had a bad feeling when I got there and tried to tell then what was wrong. Of course they told me they had never heard of this before. I tried to show them 25 pages of printouts I had with me from these website. They refused to even read the other complaints I had printed out. I got a simple "people can right anything they want on the internet". I was treated like a fool. I went to the manager and told him I was not driving that car home as it was dangerous to me and to others when I could stall at any time in traffic. To appease me they gave me a loaner and when the manager called the service manger to his office with me they agreed that they would contact Toyota Motor Company directly and see if this had ever happened before. They were also going to check my computer out. Ironically it was 2 years to the day I bought it that I had to take it in. I have 20,000 miles on it. Well anyway after 11 days of hearing nothing I call the manager I had spoke to and he gave me the run around. I was told that since Toyota had not sent out a bulletin or a fix there was nothing they could do because Toyota would not allow them to fix it without their permission. When I argued the point as to why they would just not fix it they said that if they fixed it without Toyota telling them that there actually was a problem the dealership would not get reimburssed for the warranty work. I asked them to please just check the computer that effects the transmission and they refused because Toyota would not pay for it. I went to 3 of the managers and told them how pathetic I found it that they would rather risk lives than eat the cost to check my comuter out. UNFREAKING believable! This is the 4th car I have bought from them and I am totaly disgusted. I did not even get a mile on it for every $1000 I paid for it before it went all to heck. Now I am stuck with what could be a death trap in my opinion. I made them sign my receipt where I added that I had asked to have the computer checked out or possibly be re started and they refused. If I get hurt at least I will have that to show. I am so dissapointed in Toyota. It is all I have driven since 1985 but I will never buy another one...
  • cmr6cmr6 Member Posts: 5
    Don't abandon ship yet. Other manufacturers with the "new adaptive drive" software have the same issue. The computer gets confused....Have them wipe it's memory. I have them do it everytime I have my oil changed. Maybe it's time to look for a bulletin online. My dealership didn't know about the front passenger leak bulletin for RAV-4s...I found that myself online and brought the number in with me. Good luck!
  • cmr6cmr6 Member Posts: 5
    Some cases of throttle issues are caused by the mats. See link to NHTSA.

    http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/20- 07/EA/INME-EA07010-26873P.pdf
  • ktjanektjane Member Posts: 1
    There is some vibrations when the accelerator is depressed, this does not happen all the time. Actually feels like the groves they sometimes put on center line or at stop signs. Is this a wheel alignment problem, balance problem?? Thanks
  • dmgrindedmgrinde Member Posts: 2
    I have a Toyota Rav 4 2002 that started hesitating a couple of months ago. My mechanic, despite days with my car has been unable to figure out the cause. He fixes something, gives it to me and it still hesitates. This week it started killing. He just replaced the crank sensor thinking that would fix it but when he took it for a test drive it died. Has anyone else had this problem and actually got it fixed.
  • dmgrindedmgrinde Member Posts: 2
    My mechanic finally figured it out. He replaced my ignition coils and cleaned the ECM grounds. My car works fine now.

    I checked with a Toyota mechanic about he hesitations and this is what he suggested.

    stalling and hesitation problems on these engines are often caused by too much carbon and gummy deposits on the inside of the throttle body, you might consider asking your mechanic to clean the throttle body and the throttle plate, in most cases this simple solution works.
Sign In or Register to comment.