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So, I changed it. When I did I noticed the seals on the calipers were melted out...COMPLETELY.... form the heat. So needless to say I changed the calipers. Works fine now. Looks like the master cylinder fried in turn causing the calibers to seize. And yes it was noth front wheels. This truck only has rear ABS, so I know that was not the issue.
Thanks For Your Time..
Peter
2)drilled/slotted roters with titanium pads that wore through roters at 60,000
3)cheap set from auto zone at 70,000, warped
4)2nd cheap set [rabestos] at 80,000, now at 84,000 and i am getting constant squilling [stopping and driving]. as well as heavy grinding/vibration when i first start going after a stop that will disapear if i tap the brakes.it also does it now while stopping. any suggestions? thanks.
Assuming that your driving style has not changed in the last thirty-thousand miles, and you can get 50K out of factory brake components, then on the surface it looks like you are experiencing brake component material issues with the aftermarket stuff.
My 2003 Dak went 57K on the factory pads and rotors, and the pads still had plenty of miles left on them when they were changed out. The replacements were Mopar service line rotors and pads and I had to replace them just recently at 83K because of brake pulsing from hard spots. I probably could've cleaned this pair of rotors up, but I've had such bad luck with lathe turned rotors I just gave in and bought new. I was actually tempted to use the pads as they had about 80% left on them, but my Dodge dealer gives me enough break on parts that I didn't want to risk it.
I've noticed that the newer Mopar service line replacement rotors have a silver coating on them. I don't know if this is rust protection for shipping purposes, or what, but the technician at the dealership thinks they last longer.
Just as a point of reference, I know there are Dak owners who are convinced that the Dak has inherently short mileage brakes, and compared to some of my automobiles I'd be tempted to say the same thing. Most of my cars gave me better than 60K. My '93 Sentra went nearly 100K on the factory brakes.
But my two Chevy pick-up trucks gave up their front brakes pretty consistently at 40-50K, and our '99 Toyota Avalon didn't make 50K either. People I work with are reporting generally lower miles from front brakes on many trucks of different makes and models. One guy with a Titan has had three sets of front pads and rotors in less than 45K!
Anyway, my suggestion would be to inspect and clean the calipers and brake hardware. Pay close attention to the pad contact points on the brake adaptors. They get deep pits in them after a while that can cause the pads to hang up and drag. Of course, the calipers could be sticking causing the same thing (look for ripped or deteriorated piston seals), as well as a defective master cylinder or the rubber brake lines.
Good luck & best regards,
Dusty
When replacing pads on ANY disk-brake system, you must take the time to file smooth the pad sliding surfaces. Otherwise, the new pads may bind up and give you all kinds of problems after awhile.
I went out and bought an new basterd file specifically to smooth out the sliding surfaces on my Dakota.... they were deeply gouged from the old pads and my old file was not up to the task.
Also, the quality-pads I purchased (Raybestos QS) came with Stainless Steel spacers which covered over the crusty, old contact points replacing them with ssmmootthh stainless steel sliders..
Also, I notice on some other dodge sites people use different oil filter #'s that are larger, but still fit with threading and gasket size. Seems to me the larger filter would be better so long as the fit did not interfere with anything? Any thoughts???
Hope Dusty and Bpeebles are having good luck with their trucks. I have about 87k. Hoping not to have any big $ probs. in the future?? Time will tell.
Thanks,
Tom.
Since many oil filters use a standard thread and have approximately the same bypass valve cut-off pressures, a larger filter would obviously give you more capacity for holding contaminants. You need to be careful, though, since different filter models are designed for specific applications where oil flow rates or bypass pressures are different. This usually translates into the filter using a different media which handles greater flow rates by using a less fine material. Most filters trap 12-14 micron size particles, but some go down to 8, which is typical of newer Mopar designs.
Since I stick to regular oil changes I'm sure that my 4.7 motor is relatively clean, so the need for an increased size of filter is not desired. I would recommend that you check the spec's on any filter your considering before adopting its use.
My personal opinion is you shouldn't ever need a larger filter if you've maintained the engine properly and used the correct oil.
Best regards,
Dusty
Lifted up the front end and could not move the tires by hand.
I went after all the possibilities. I replaced the brake hoses and the o-ring and dust boots in the calipers. The rotors and pads were original with 85000 miles and the rotors were warped so I replaced them as well along with the pads.
Took it for a spin and after a while they locked again. Replaced the master cylinder and flushed all the old fluid.
Took it for a spin and after a while felt a little heavy so I lifted the front end and the tires are hard to turn by hand and felt hotter than usual.
I'm considering replacing the calipers altogether cause I'm a little puzzled now.
Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
I can attest that both of my front calipers behaved like yours... when they heated up, they seazed the pads to the rotors.
After cooling off, they seemed OK for about 10 miles.
My rebuilt calipers are BETTER quality than the originals. (The originals use a non-metallic piston.)
Also, one MUST MUST MUST replace brake fluid at least every 2 years due to moisture in the hydrolic system.... lest suffer the fate of replacing calipers due to internal rust.
I replaced the calipers and now it works fine.
Thanks for the reply it's greatly appreciated.
I'm glad I came across this web site,I think is awesome.
Thanks again
Robert
Modern automotive brake calipers are built as cheaply as possible with the lowest-cost materials that will barely do the job.
In my many years of doing my own brake-work. I sense that Chrysler has been notorious for using the very cheapest of materials. Even my old AMC Eagle had Chrysler brake-calipers on it that even Chrysler did not want to use on their own vehicles.
I have found that the brake caliper design and components on my old Nissan pickup truck may have been the best I have ever seen.
The main positive thing I can say about Dodge-Chrysler brake components is that spare parts are plentiful and relativly inexpensive. (as compared to some other brands)
Here is a photo I snapped of some Powerslot Rotors after just 3 Vermont winters. (The originals lasted only 2 winters) The astute observer will see that there are 2 sets of pads in that photo. It did not save me any money to install cheep components... they were junk. The surface of the pads started to transfer to the rotors!!! (I did expect better from Powerslot-brand rotors)
On my Dakota... after replacing pads/rotors and calipers with HIGH QUALITY components (Bendix and Raybestos)... It has been trouble-free thru many Vermont winters.
I suppose the lesson to be learned here is to be careful not to jerk the handle when releasing the brake, especially in cold weather.
Can anyone tell me how big a job it is to replace the handle?
Thanks
It is often best to pull the pins back just a bit (perhaps 1/2 inch) instead of removing them completely. This protects from dirt gettting into the sliding surfaces.
The pins slide inside those rubber boots as the pads wear down to keep the caliper centered on the rotor. This is known as a "fully floating" caliper design because the caliper is said to hover or "float" the pads over the surface of the rotor.
BTW: How the heck did you compress the piston BEFORE losening the pins and removing the caliper????
The usual process for Dakota brakes is;
1) Losen guidepins and pull them back a tad.
2) Work caliper off of rotor (including pads)
3) Remove pads from rotor
4) Install used pad backward and use C-clamp against it to compress piston. (WATCH TANK FOR OVERFLOW!!)
5) File smooth the surfaces which the pads slide against.
6) Apply hi-temp lube to same surfaces. (quality pads come with lube and stainless-steel sliders)
7) Install new pads into caliper.
8) Slide caliper over rotor.
9)make certain guidepins are NOT cross-threaded.
10) USE TORQUE-WRENCH to finalize toque on guidepins.
NOTE: Some folks prefer to only loosen ONE of the guidepins and then rotate the caliper off the rotor using the other guidepin as a pivot-point.
My 98 dakota 4wd 3.9 is giving me a hard time. Most of my driving is short distance around town. Occasionally (especially if I've been on a longer trip than usual), as I come to a stop, one of the fronts will just grab and lock up. I've replaced both calipers and the pads, but not the rotors (they don't produce the pulsation I'd normally associate with warped/distorted discs). There are times when I do feel pulsation as I come to a stop, but I can't understand how with warped rotors this wouldn't be present all the time. Regarding the slide surfaces, I figured with fresh calipers I should be good, although if I remember correctly, one of the slide surfaces is on the knuckle/spindle assembly, not the caliper itself. I didn't file down these surfaces (yet).
Does it sound to you guys like uneven slide surfaces could be my problem? There have been times when they were grabby just after I got off the interstate when I wanted to blame the power booster (a high vacuum state?)... Hoping Bpeebles or Dustyk can help me out with this one, before I pull my hair out! Thanks in advance!
James
As for the calipers locking up, are they both locking ? if so, I would be looking at the brake master cylinder as the cause of this problem.
On my 2002 quad cab both fronts would lock and then release after about 15 minutes. I went to the dealer for answers since I had never encountered that in 30 years of driving. The mechanic said it was the brake hoses. against my better judgement with my 26 years as an aviation mechanic I fell for it ( I can see one side failing with a callapsed hose but not both at the same time with separate hoses) but that was not the problem.
I ended up replacing the master cylinder which had caused both calipers to fail and fry. I also replaced the rotors that were warped with by .010 " and I could feel it in the steering wheel everytime I would hit the brakes.
A problem with the booster would probably make the brake pedal feel quite hard.
Good luck and keep us posted of the progress.
Robert
I assume you have already done the "feel test" to see if he lugnuts are hot to the touch after driving on the highway for awhile. (lugnuts SHOULD be almost ambient temp.... never more than slightly warm)
Thanks for your reply. Both sides will lock up, but not at the same time. I've thought about replacing the brake hoses, but can't wrap my head around how worn hoses could create increased hydraulic pressure... Sounds like your master cylinder got to a point where it just wouldn't release? My fronts will release ok, just grabby as heck (but not all the time). I may pull the wheels off in the next couple days and give some close inspection to those sliding surfaces. Maybe I'll even grab some fresh rotors, I'm running out of parts to replace (ones that make sense, anyway).
Thanks for your help, and I'll post back whatever I find.
James
Thanks for responding. I'm feeling a little stupid for not having done the "feel test", just never had the idea that there was any dragging going on while I was moving. Will try this today and report back. I suppose if I find the lugnuts are warm (and the calipers just replaced) this would indicate rotor distortion or possible master cylinder not releasing (like cubansky's problem)?
Again, thank you guys for the help...
James
In the past I've only replaced rotors when they give a consistent pulsating feel when brakes are applied, but I'm starting to think I should throw some fresh rotors on there just to see what happens. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
James
NOTE: this may not be the fault of the calipers. If BOTH sides are dragging, then suspect the brake-booster on the master-cylinder or perhaps the ABS system is acting up.
Most often grabby brakes on ALL the wheels is caused by a faulty brake-booster.
Dont forget that the rotors are expected to be hot if you just used the brakes. Did you perform the "feel test" after running on highway and coming to stop with mininal use of the brakes? (I dp the "feel test" after coasting into a rest-area and use the emergancy brake to come to a stop... but you have to know what you are doing!)
Cheers,
Omen
BTW, 97 Dak 4x4 5.2L
Are you certain that BOTH of the rear wheels are locking up? If so, suspect the RWALB, speed-sensor (screwed into rear diff housing), proportioning valve, and tire size. (If you do not have EXACTLY the proper size tires installed as from the factory, the RWABS system may act up.)
Rudy
If any work needs to be done to the hydrolic system. (like bleeding), it is better to have some knowledge of what you are doing.
Keep in mind that brakes are an important safety feature on your Dak. and we dont want anyone to get hurt (or worse).
When you pay somone to do it... they also assume liability and provide a warantee too. (You are not just paying for parts and labor)
Regards,
Dusty
Dusty
If a single wheel is locking up (touchy), then check for brake-fluid leaking on to the rotor/drum.
With normal driving, I have an intermitant pulsation when stopping. This has varing intensity and comes and goes with different stops on the same trip. I only feel this pulsation in the "seat of my pants", not in the steering wheel. Stops straight with normal pedal pressure.
I have disasembled and looked at: rotors; clean & smooth -- pads; factory, thick, clean & smooth -- calipers; dry, pistons free -- fluid; clean & full.
I'm at a loss, HELP.
Thanks, Dave
Despite the appearance of the rotor surface, I would recommend replacing the rotors, especially if they have 70,000 miles on them.
Best regards,
Dusty
Did you allow it to run totally dry (Air got in)? If so, then you may need to perform special steps to get the air out of the ABS pump and accumulator.
Also, what technique did you use to bleed the system?
1) Pressure-bleeding?
2)Vacuum-bleeding?
3) Manual pump-the-pedal process?
Is this correct and/or is there a fix for this other than the rear being changed again?
I may be costly to get rid of squeek and you will not have any better stopping-power... I suggest you ignore it and be happy.