GMC Yukon / Yukon Denali

y2kgts · April 2004

Well, I stopped by my dealer today just for the heck of it - prior to reading these posts. Didn't make the trade, but probably will this coming week. Let me clarify the situation a little bit:

First off, you may remember a few of my posts from way back when (I recognize some of you guys). I have a pretty trick entertainment system in my Denali - and also had the dubious pleasure of T-boning a Land Cruiser about a year and a half ago. No frame or engine damage (no airbag deployment either), but still some $14,000 to repair it. Car drives PERFECTLY, but still have those nagging little problems that others have experienced: Locking seatbelts (can't lean forward even when cruising on the highway), slipping tranny (rare, but happens), skipping CD changer (seems to ignore light or quiet tracks and either ends the song prematurely or skips it entirely if it starts quietly - hell on Pink Floyd), and other odds and ends. Even the engine makes a weird sound like some bearing (alternator?) is going out. We have had heated seats fail, seatbelts replaced, and other minor problems. Oh yeah, and did I mention that a full tank of gas from a nationally known dealer was actually DIESEL FUEL? That was a pain for two weeks until the tank was drained and filters changed. FYI, that station doesn't even sell diesel - it was a mistake by the tanker company and happened at five area gas stations of various brands. Bottom line: The truck is still a great ride, but the smaller problems are becoming more annoying and my trust less so. She has just under 32,000 miles on the clock.

Now, the dealer is the same dealer that sold this one to me new and also had it when it was wrecked - they know the FULL history of the car. With that in mind I expected the worst on an estimated trade-in. It was a little better than I hoped and breaks down like this: $28,000 against a purchase price of $47,600. This is for my loaded 2002 WITH entertainment system (two 7" headrest TV's, DVD, wireless headphones, TV tuner, & game hookup). I would be trading for a 2004 DXL also loaded - sunroof, rear captains chairs, navigation & XM radio + promotional financing of either 0% for 60 months or 2.9% for 72. I will get the same entertainment system added, only with the new 9" headrest displays, for $2000 installed.

Bottom line is that we are 90% sure we are going to do it. We thought about the Escalade ESV, but the $7,700 difference in price is hard to justify. I know, I know - we are already making a leap to change for an almost identical car, but we are just a little nervous with this one. That, and keeping payments reasonable is simply not possible with the Escalade (no major promotions or rebates).

So what other differences are there between the '02 and '04 Denali's? Here is what we saw today: First off, on the horsepower Edmunds themselves says this in their 2004 review "Lastly, GMC has lowered the output figures for the Vortec 8100 -- the engine is now rated at 320 horsepower and 440 pound-feet of torque." Yet the specs say 325 HP and 365 ft lbs of torque. Regardless, it is indeed the same as the 2002. We thought about swapping some interior bits, however it appears that the center console lid (locking and with extra storage on the 2002) won't fit the 2004. Likewise the 2002 embroidered door panels - at least on the front doors, which have different "pads" for the seat settings (adjustable pedals for 2004, not available in 2002). For 2004 also add StabiliTrak, navigation, XM radio, memory key fobs (driver specific for seat settings), turn signal mirrors, better controls on steering wheel, individual climate controls for front (digital in 2004), and tire pressure monitors. Heated seats in front can now be turned on at the seat or the back seperately - the 2002 is all or none. Overall the 2004 presents a not inconsiderable list of improvements.

As to the headrests that somebody else mentioned, yep, the 2002 has the "winged" headrests. Of course that is something I can swap over with ease from the 2002 to the 2004. I kept the original front headrests (the replacements have TV's) and the backs should be an easy swap. Is there anything else that anyone can think of that would be worth trying to move from my 2002 to the 2004 assuming we do this deal? I greatly appreciate any and all opinions.

Finally (whew!), I noticed that the dealer now offers factory "bling" in the form of 20" GMC wheels. There are six different styles and they had one set on a black DXL and a different set on a black pickup truck. A little pricey at $3500 (including tires), but still interesting. Thought you would be amused!

blockislandguy · April 2004

Erinsquared mentions "Cadillac service treatment" as one (of several) reasons to buy an Escalade. Wow! In New England the Caddy dealers are a marginal lot. Most are dualled with another GM line, have very unimpressive facilities and don't seem to be doing that well. They are like Nissan dealers compared to Toyota dealers: they have a hot product but can they sell/support it?

I would much rather take a Denali to a GM truck dealer than a Caddy to a Caddy dealer and wait behind a Pontiac customer. The sales people in my experierence are geared to sell the other line the store has (they can't live on Caddy) and come across that way. I went in to look at a CTS last week in Central MA and the sales rep was wearing yellowish pajama type bottoms. No joke. (Maybe he was expecting a 'slade customer?) FWIW, I don't think that Muffy and Buffy will be trading in their 5 Series for a CTS-V to a guy in yellow pjs.

avolvofan · April 2004

I couldn't agree more. I would want my truck serviced by someone who works on trucks all the time. They (Denalis) are not cars on steroids.

jammon1 · April 2004

I just traded my '01 DXL for an '04 DXL. I had 45,000 miles on the '01 and experienced many of the known problems; transmission slips, acid leaking battery, a worn positive battery cable, rear HVAC temp sensor failure. In spite of these I still love the truck. I received blue book trade-in value for my '01, paid $300 over invoice before a $1000 "truckfest" bonus cash from GM, took advantage of 0% for 36 months (which GMAC will make the first three payments for nearly $3,000), and saved $2500 in sales tax due to trading in the '01. So not including the sales tax savings I paid $3700 under invoice. For the stabilitrac and the other refinments I could not pass the upgrade.

The 20" GMC Denali rims are made and sold by aaarims. You can find them online. They look pretty good in the pictures.

y2kgts · April 2004

Glad you were happy with your upgrade! After my last post I decided to visit one more dealer just to make sure I was getting a good deal. After going over the prior damage in detail (which was fixed to perfection) and filling out that disclosure, they still offered me $30,400 for my 2002, including the dual headrest monitors, DVD, etc. They then offered me the 2004 with the stuff I wanted (navigation, sunroof, & rear captains seats) for $47,100 including the $1000 Truckfest rebate and 0% for 60 months. With invoice being $48,612, I was stunned. Needless to say, I signed on the dotted line immediately! We pick it up on Thursday, as they had to dealer-trade to get the color I wanted (they offered me the deal before I told them what color I wanted). Should be cool!

Thanks for the info on the 20" rims. Anything bigger seems a bit too gaudy for me, but those factory 17" wheels look pretty darn small these days. This same dealer had the "GMC" wheels on sale for $2999 mounted and balanced with Goodyear Eagles instead of the $3500 the first dealership wanted for the same setup. I checked a couple sites for AAA Rims (including aaarims.com) and they don't have any of the ones that were at the GMC dealerships. While they have 17" Denali take-offs and 20" versions of factory Denali wheels, the ones I saw at both dealers looked nothing like any GM factory wheels. They had six different 20" styles to choose from. Interesting!

blockislandguy · April 2004

Y2kgts, thanks for the numbers. But, just so I can understand this, I wonder how it would come out if you had insisted on the net difference between dealer invoice (less all applicable rebates and promo items) and say a "wholesale" figure for your unit? In other words, you buy the Denali at dealer invoice less the wholesale value of your car.

I apologise because I haven't run these numbers thru Edmunds , but I wonder if there would be a net difference. I think that dealer invoice on your car is a lot less than 47K and wholesale pricing on your used Denali is less, but not much less, than the 30K you were allowed. You don't have to be a lawyer to know that winning an argument lies in how it is initially framed; i.e., new list price vs. used retail or dealer cost vs. used wholesale value.

jammon1 · April 2004

Sounds like you got a great deal too. I misunderstood your prior post regarding the wheels. I thought they were the factory Denali style wheels in the 20" size. I kept a set of 20" BBS RW wheels that I had on my '01 and I put them on the '04. Bigger than 20" begins to affect the ride and is too gaudy for me as well.

jammon1 · April 2004

Chevy/GMC said last year that they were going to come out with a manufacturer approved line of "custom" wheels for trucks and SUVs that they were going to sell through the dealers. I have not seen any at the dealers around my neck of the woods yet nor could I find them on the Chevrolet or GMC website either.

y2kgts · April 2004

Excellent points on the price. One factor is that I owed money on the 2002, so "buying on the difference" is actually "buying on the difference plus the debt". Here is how both vehicles booked out on Edmunds.com with the equipment I chose:

2004 Denali XL: $55,495 List; $48,612 invoice
2002 Denali XL: $28,643 Trade-in; $30,612 Retail

Now the 2002 estimates don't include the DVD entertainment system. More importantly, they do not include any depreciation for a prior accident. Considering that I was paid some $7500 for diminished value after the accident, I think the offer of $30,400 was pretty incredible. Throw in $512 BELOW invoice on the 2004 plus the $1000 rebate and I could not be more pleased.

As to the new 20" wheels from GMC, I found this page on GMC's site that shows them (all NINE styles) in detail:

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/gmgoodwrenchjsp/accessories/category.- jsp?catid=wheel&make=gmc&model=sierra

It is interesting to note that there is a "Guideline for Usage" link that provides a warning of sorts: Worse ride, worse traction, and worse gas mileage. Curious as whether you or anyone else has experienced any of these symptoms. With this being the wife's car as much as it is mine, I don't want to do anything that will tick her off (worse ride and/or mileage would not win me any points).

kensd · April 2004

I was planning on adding a set of 22" wheels on my '03 Denali shorty and was interested in knowing if anyone was aware of any positive or negative effects on the vehicle they may have. I will be going with 305/45R22 or 305/40R22 tires to replace the stock 17" which i feel look lost in the wheel wells. I am assuming that the handling will improve due to less sidewall flex but a friend with a Z71 Tahoe mentioned that he noticed a decrease in acceleration on his vehicle when he did the same. Don't know how as the overall height is relatively the same and the weight is only about 15 lbs per wheel with tire.
I also saw people mentioning that the dealer is offering 20" wheels for approx $3000? seems like a lot of money, especially if they (the dealer) keep the 17s and you have nothing to throw on for the winter! Anyone considering that option should first check out the many wheel wholesalers online such as wheelmax.com. These places offer 20" wheels with tires, mounted and balanced and shipped for about $1700 and up. I could think of a lot of things to do with the extra $3000!

obyone · April 2004

when mounted on a Denali with the factory height. Even though they might be an exact replacement for the factory 17" wheels, the gap between the rear fenderwell and the tire makes for, in my opinion a ridiculous looking setup. For that reason I did a 3" drop in the rear and a 1" drop in the front. That caused a bit more of a handling problem as the rear sway bar doesn't cut it and at highway speeds the backend was way too loose for my comfort resulting in me replacing the rear sway bar.

All in all, the ride change is like day and night. The truck now rides rough due to the drop and the rims. It's no where near as smooth as it was when it was stock. That's the price I was willing to pay for the bling bling look. If ride comfort is important to you or more importantly to your wife, I wouldn't recommend anything but the stock setup as things get rougher as soon as you change the rims to the 20s. The ride with the 20s took some getting used to....I can just imagine the ride on a set of 22s.......

I can imagine the loss of performance with the Z71 Tahoe and the 5.3. I didn't notice much of a difference in terms of performance with the 20s. One thing for sure. The mpg meter used to read 13.9 before the rim change. It now reads 13.5.

jammon1 · April 2004

Regarding the BIG wheels. I have not noticed a impact on mileage with the 20" wheels. The ride does get a little more firm. I am running Nitto 440 tires. They are quiet and smooth. Most 20" wheels will be 12-20 lbs more than the 17" wheels, that is per wheel with the tire mounted. It adds up to more weight for the engine to spin to accelerate. I think if you ran 0-60 times with the 17" and the 20" you would probably be slightly quicker with the 17".

That being said - when I put the 20" wheels on my wife asked "why put different wheels on?" When winter came around I put the 17" wheels back on and the first time my wife drove it she said that it did not look as good with the "winter" wheels. Improving performance is not the issue, who is going to go to the track to run hot laps in their Denali? The issue is filling the wheel well with a wheel that looks like it fits.

Thanks for the link on the GM wheels.

blockislandguy · April 2004

Y2kgts, you're absolutely right. They sold it to you at under their invoice yet gave you above your wholesale value for the trade. Sorry I didn't see this as clearly earlier.

Obyone and the other big wheels: I don't get it. You guys put up with a lot for the bling/bling look: poor handling, lousy ride, the necessity of changing tires/wheels every six months and maybe even buying another $1500 set of winter tires and wheels if the dealer grabbed your OEM rims, etc. I mean if we were talking about putting set of $3000 rims on a 993 Porche, that's one thing. But for a Denali that's going to go to the transfer station every Saturday and after 104 trips to the dump will have lost 17K (see Y2kgts post) this is hard to understand.

Put the 3K to 5K that would have gone for big wheels into a mutual fund specializing in natural resources and after your 104 weekly trips to the dump you will have recovered in the market what you lost in depreciation.

orwoody · April 2004

Before you buy replacement wheels and if your rig is under warranty; ask GM if the wheels are okay. Apparently if the wheels don't meet certain specs, GM won't honor related warranty items. I found this out when I was at a local dealer. I asked why they had re-swapped the wheels off a gussied up Sierra sportside they had in the show room. (They had fitted it with some beautiful 20" chromes) A salesman I know there told me they had to after they went to close on a sale and GM balked because the wheels apparently didn't have proper clearance for the full turning radius. (the buyer got mad and then walked away)

avolvofan · April 2004

If you do ANY driving off road, don't go for the 20" wheels. You will be replacing tires much more frequently if you hit trail hazards (logs, large rocks, etc.) with the 20" wheels.

dako_tian · April 2004

Off roading, you'll undoubtedly be replacing 20" wheels too! There is simply less tire between the metal and the obstruction.

I know some of you have actually taken your luxury SUVs off road, but you must be in the minority. Here, Dallas/Fort Worth area, and especially in the North suburbs of Dallas, an "average" vehicle is slightly above normal, middle-class affordability. When that vehicle is an SUV, it is frequently outfitted with brush guards all around. It's hilarious to me when considering that the nearest to off-roading most of those vehicles will get is that accidental detour through the landscaping due to a cell-phone distraction (or makeup application, or adjustment of the kids' DVD, or yelling at the kids, or suddenly remembering that the necessary turn is right now! or ....).

But then, I suppose the new "American Way" (Is this only still the "Land of Opportunity" if you are a recent immigrant?!?) is to try to appear as more than you are and, if you are lucky, you might win big! It's sad, really.

obyone · April 2004

Where I come from we don't need winter tires.

If I really wanted to save money I would've bought a plain Yukon with the 4.8. Additionally, I think the 17" rims look good on my Silverado replacing the faux chrome rims that came stock on the Chevy trucks. And yes I have a HPIII unit to recalibrate from the 275/70R16 Michelin LTX M/S to the 265/70R17 Michelin Cross Terrains which is a little stiffer tire.

Lastly, yes the ride is harsher and handling is substantially improved due to the center of gravity being lowered and wider profile tires along with the thicker sway bar.

jammon1 · April 2004

I don't think too many Denali's see real offroading action. At most mine travels a gravel road occasionally. Where I live we get snow and ice for several months each year, which requires good M+S tires. The factory tires work quite well. In many northern areas the semi annual wheel change for snow tires/wheels is quite normal. The tire shops a quite busy when the first snow flies in October and when it all melts in March.

As I understand it the AWD setup on the Denali is not ideal for offroading.

avolvofan · April 2004

The Denali can do limited off road driving. I wouldn't propose it for rock crawling or serious off road work; however, driving on rough, unprepared roads is something it is quite capable of. Just don't plan on using those 20" wheels and low profile tires off road. For that matter, a good pothole will toast the 20" wheel and tire.

For one perspective on the Denali off road, check ezrapon at post number 2412. ezrapon certainly did not do his off road venture with 20" wheels and tires.

ezrapon · May 2004

has been off road probably more than most. I am very selective with where I go i.e., no trees big rocks or high departure angles. It did seem quite capable, but felt like it would sink like the titanic in a heavy mud bog. It is after all, a 1/2 ton GMC truck underneath (lexus, Mercs, and bmw's take note). I do run the stock tires and rims. It was hard to do the ol' 4 wheel slides in mud with the stabilitrac on. If I had expensive rims, I'd never have been off the road. Spinning a chrome rim in gravel would be about a 400 dollar blunder.

avolvofan · May 2004

ezrapon, your Denali is closer to a 3/4 ton capacity truck (payload is 1466 lbs., or 34 lbs shy of 3/4 ton). Even with the truck attributes, the Denali rides better than any of the cars you mentioned.

blockislandguy · May 2004

ezrapon, how do you think the Denali would do vs. a Yukon with low range on the beach? Sliding a couple of surf rods through the moon roof and being able to drive the last mile down the beach would be nice.

lobsenza · May 2004

I drove my Denali on the beach without any problem.....

gwf · May 2004

Well, I'll jump in here with my opinion on the '04 Yukon Denali XL. My wife and I went down to a dealership today to pick up a new '04 DXL. We have a 2002 that we're very happy with, and with the incentives and safety improvements (specifically the StabiliTrak and additional/smarter airbags), I thought it would be a good move. Sadly, we didn't plan on taking a look at one first, because not much else would change, right?

Well, as has been mentioned earlier in this forum, it seems GM has done some cost-cutting, and removed some of the "sizzle" from the Denali package. A bit strange since the features alone (unless you MUST have the AWD & 6L engine) always seemed a stretch for the price. Frankly, I bought the Denali originally because (1) it was the first new car for my wife (with kids on the way), and I wanted it to be special; (2) I DO think the AWD is valuable from a safety standpoint; and (3) it was too taxing to try and figure out the myriad option packages on the standard Chevy/GMC platforms. Denali was simple.

Well, when youre shelling out $50K for a new vehicle - ok, less, but Ill post that in the buying experience forum when this is over - you want to be thrilled. Or, at least, you want *her* to be thrilled :-). Things started off badly when she realized that the carbon metallic was not the color she thought it was. She was thinking a lighter gray: darker than our 02 pewter, but not as dark as this. This isnt a product fault, of course, but it set the stage. Inside, she immediately noticed several changes that she didnt care for:

1. Center console extra storage on top  now gone.
2. The nicely contoured headrests of 2002 are now just padded blocks.
3. The interior seems to be very monochrome (read: boring) compared to the nice contrasting shades on our 02.
4. The carpet is now of a much thinner / lighter grade (though I think the cabin is a bit quieter on the road).
5. The Denali stitching on the interior front door panels is gone. This was a very distinctive touch.

The one thing she liked was the upgrade to the front seat heating, which she always felt was either too much or too little.

For me, I liked moving the trip computer stuff to the instrument cluster, and the revamped controls on the steering wheel. It also seems they refined the stereo volume to be a little more granular (the 02 takes a deft touch). I dont know if they deep-sixed the speed-sensitive volume (the manual is back at the dealership), but that worked pretty well, and we did miss it on the ride home (Im hoping its there somewhere).

Again, I considered getting the new model for the safety improvements, and to add the sunroof our first one lacked. However, the little touches that set the 2002 Denali model apart from the standard models are lacking in 2004.

Bottom line: if this were our first look at a DXL, we might have been thrilled, but it isnt, and we werent. Though the points may seem trivial or even silly, a $50K vehicle is going to get (and should get) this kind of scrutiny!

Sorry, GMC, I think the nickel & dime savings on your premier model are penny-wise and pound foolish. Our dealer let us take it home for a couple days, but theres a very good chance theyve lost this sale.

If anyone knows of some aftermarket sources for interior parts, Id appreciate a heads-up. Some of these cosmetics could be improved, though Im not thrilled to spend hundreds more on a car this expensive. However, with new headrests and a revamped center console top, she might just go for it.

utl3 · May 2004

Maybe old news, but the Auto show sites show the 2005 Sierra Denali (4dr) coming this fall with the 345 hp motor out of the Escalade. Is it too far fetched to assume that the 2005 Yukon Version will have the same motor? That would be worth waiting for. Anybody heard or read anything?

tidester · May 2004

You might want to look at SUV for Beach Sand.

tidester, host

avolvofan · May 2004

gwf, I do miss some of the touches that were on the '01 and '02 Denali. (As you mentioned, the Denali stitching on the door panels.) However, on balance, (even with the de-contenting that has occurred on the '04), I think the new models are better than the '01 and '02s. You touch on some of the improvements; here are some others - adjustable accelerator and brake pedals, and integration of the XM radio with navigation system. For me the best convenience improvement was the XM radio - set your channel and you have it available for your entire trip; no switching radio stations, or juggling CDs. Just set and go.

Now for the question of which model year was the best, I would vote for the '03 - you got all of the improvements with minimal de-contenting. But then again, I am biased, since I have the '03....

blockislandguy · May 2004

avolvofan, from your post then it seems that Stabiltrak wasn't included until '03? When did the General decide to put side air bags in? I think both are important considerations and are effective.

(Isn't it amazing how GM seems to lag in safety just enough to save some money but not enough to really hurt sales?).

tdoh · May 2004

Speaking of de-contenting, here's what GM took out of the Yukon Denali for '04--although supposedly the tranny oil cooler (RPO code KNP) is still there, if you want to believe what is printed on the glove box sticker...

-Deleted front passenger door lock cylinder
-Deleted transmission oil cooler
-Deleted "Auto" and "Off" LED indicator lights from exterior lamp control panel
-Deleted glovebox light and switch
-Deleted battery green eye indicator
-Reduced front 8.25 4WD axle lube levels from 1600 mL to 1430 mL - Testing has verified reduction will not affect performance
-Reduced brake caliper wear sensor to 2 sensors per front
-Eliminated low coolant sensor - "low coolant" message will no longer appear. Amber and red warning lights for "high coolant temperature" will remain via Driver Information Center (DIC).
-Eliminate the shade band along the top of windshield
-Eliminate two nuts and screws from license plate package
-Eliminate red border on taillamps and replace with black border
-Eliminate all visor secondary shades (2004I)
-Elimnate gloves from jack tool bag (2004I)
-Remove the foam insulator on the accumulator bottle assembly - GEN III engines
-Remove paint from condensors (2004I)

tdoh · May 2004

You'd be surprised as to how much 15 additional pounds of unsprung weight can affect acceleration; I'm not talking night-and-day difference, but the difference is there. The additional weight will also adversely affect braking distance and inevitably, brake pad/rotor wear.

You could go buy some forged wheels instead--that should help the weight issue somewhat, although purchase of such will definitely lighten your wallet!

avolvofan · May 2004

Side impact air bags have been in the Denali from 2001. StabiliTrak was offered in 2002 model Escalades; however, that version was a two channel (front wheels) edition. With the 2003 model, a four channel version of StabiliTrak was released for both Esclade and Denali.

tidester · May 2004

You'd be surprised as to how much 15 additional pounds of unsprung weight can affect acceleration;

Yes, indeed, I'd be surprised! Adding 15 pounds to a 4,000 lb vehicle will change the rate of acceleration by 0.375% which would reduce the 0-60 mph time by about 0.015 seconds. You're right - it's not night and day! :-)

tidester, host

deadwood · May 2004

You forgot:

Auxiliary power door lock switch in cargo area gone

The onboard computer that recorded milage and top speed for last 15 days gone

The under the hood light gone

Tail pipe changed

The two 12 volt outlets on center console gone

Speed sensitive steering gone

Locking rear differential gone

Secondary shade on visors gone

Coin holder in center console gone

3rd row floormats gone

Why? To save maybe $500 on a $52000 vehicle.

Can you say "stupid" boys and girls?

Instead of trading in my 02 XL I'll just keep it until hell freezes over.

y2kgts · May 2004

First off, let me echo that the decontenting of the Denali is just plain stupid. When they eliminated the tailpipe "dress-up" in 2003 I thought it was ridiculous. Apparently enough people agreed and they brought it back in 2004.

That said, I am one of the folks that traded in a 2002 for a 2004. Of course one of the main reasons was that our 2002 had been in a pretty hefty accident when it was only four months old and was now 4000 miles away from warranty expiration. We just weren't crazy about holding onto it past the warranty and decided that the current incentives were worth looking at. Indeed, I stopped by my original selling dealer on the 2002 more as a curiosity that anything else: I knew my '02 was not worth as much because of the history and wanted to see how poorly it had faired. When I found I could trade up to a 2004 with the updates I wanted for a LOT less than anticipated, I made the move. That said, here are my real-world impressions of the 2004 vs. the 2002 after eight days of ownership:

To begin with, the decontenting that we noticed the most was the lack of the top storage place (and no lock) on the center console. This was just DUMB on GM's part, as there is not a single place in that car to lock anything!! I can understand eliminating the passenger side key lock, but is there really THAT big a premium on lock cylinders? The lack of any interior lock is one of the biggest faux pas I have ever seen in a redesign. Granted, the removal of the embroidered logos on the side was also dumb. We wanted to swap our 2002 console and door panels to the 2004, but I think only the back doors would have fit - the front door panels now have a bigger control pad with the addition of the adjustable pedals and expanded heated seat options. Also note that the rear door lighting (lighting the entrance area at night) has also been removed with a cheap reflector in their place (wonder if they are still wired? Hmmmm...)

The rest of the decontenting really wasn't that noticeable. The center console does have a rear 12-volt outlet (just one) that is in a much better position and no risk of breaking those flimsy covers like we did on the '02 twice. The rest of the stuff listed we simply didn't use that much. Coin holder is still in the 2004, but we never used it in the 2002 either. Used the secondary visors maybe once in the 1500 miles a month that we average. Liked the 15 day history, just because it was fun on long trips to see how fast we had gone on certain days. What hasn't been noted (and may be a 2003 delete) was the interior lighting in the front footwells. My first car was a GM ('75 Pontiac Grand Ville Brougham convertible) and I have owned 20-30 of them since then. I can't EVER remember having "dark" footwells at night in any of them. Disappointing to say the least.

And our actual driving impressions? LOVE IT! Maybe it was because of the accident (which had no frame damage or even put it out of alignment), but the 2004 has a very noticeably better ride. We opted for the navigation system and it is superb. You can customize it with or without the turn-by-turn voice commands (first played with this on Hertz "Never-Lost" systems on rental cars) and it is very accurate. I was a little surprised they gave me a 2003 navigation DVD on a 2004 model truck, but it is still pretty accurate. Also not available in 2002 was the XM radio. We really enjoy this option and know it will be awesome when we make our annual 6,000 mile trip to Canada and back. Don't know if it will work north of the border but hope it will. Other "improvements" from our 2002?

* Stabilitrak
* 3-Zone climate control ("his and hers")
* Adjustable pedals
* "Easy exit" power seat return
* Turn signals in outside mirrors
* On Star in less conspicuous location (inside mirror)
* Separate controls for back/butt on heated front seats
* Three levels on heated seats (instead of two)
* Weight-sensitive front passenger seat for automatic air bag on/off
* Rear controls (back of console) for rear heat and A/C
* Variable fan speeds for rear heat and A/C (instead of just three)
* Digital climate control settings for front AND rear
* "Easy off" for daytime running lights and/or auto headlights
* Curb-assist outside mirrors that can be on or off
* Automatic folding outside mirrors - one button brings them both in
* Reverse lights come on at night with remote opening (more light)
* Interior seating materials have more contrast (neutral/shale)
* Redesigned window switches are more intuitive
* "Up and out" middle passenger seat for easy entrance/exit
* Lighted controls on steering wheel - MUCH easier to use
* Driver memory for everything including seats, radio, A/C, etc.
* KEY FOB SPECIFIC for driver memory! Unlock the car with your fob and everything will be to your settings when you get in the car, right down to the last radio station you were tuned to. Much better than our 2002, which we would occasionally "fumble finger" and lose the settings or program them both the same.

And while I have yet to see it in real life, it is rated 2 mpg higher on both city/highway than the 2002 and has 5 more horsepower according to most sources.

Bottom line: Do I like the fact that they took some really good stuff away? NO! I think some of them were totally brainless moves (console lock, footwell lights, etc.). Do the additions FAR outweigh the losses? In our case, absolutely. The ride alone is so much improved over our 2002 that we were shocked. Throw on all the extra goodies we could get on the 2004 and we are very pleased with our purchase. Of course since we went with the same exact color and model, the neighbors don't even know we got a new car. Oh well!

We got the entertainment system installed yesterday and it rocks. Same basic concept as our 2002 install (http://home.kc.rr.com/viperdiecast/denali/denaliav.htm), but with many improvements over 2002 as well. More on that later...

liquidlab · May 2004

I also bought a new top-of-the-line 2004 Yukon for my wife and, compared to my 2001 Yukon XL (3/4 ton,8.1 engine),a lot of features have been deleted.
I'm not going to do the full list here (did it on the Yukon/Tahoe thread)but only mention the ones that I "re-installed".

1/rubber pads (4) on the roof
They are $6 each and use double sided tape,very easy.

2/Sealing rubber wheatherstrip trim in engine bay (2)
same thing, they are very cheap and use double sided tape

3/Footwell lights (2) and rear door lights (2)
This one was more expensive and harder to do.
The wiring doesn't exist anymore and i had to re-create one,you can get all the lights and their connectors ( the brackets/opening to hold them are still there) for about $15 each (total about $110).
You have to remove the rear door panels and some trim pieces to be able to run the wires from the back door to the front kick panel and splice each side lights (footwell and rear door) to the 2 wires going to the same side front door lights.
Taking my time it took me about 2hrs per side.

4/underhood light
You can either got a new "old" hood insulation or cut the opening for the light in the one you have.
Wiring is very simple,you can connect the + directly to the battery since the light has a mercury/gravity switch.

I'm pretty sure that I can modify the console top to be able to use a lock and key but the Denali has a diferent console than the Yukon.

(y2kgts,I think that we know each other from the VCA board, i have a 00 GTS, black with silver stripes)

tdoh · May 2004

Tidester--yeah, yeah...hence my "not night and day difference comment", as you reiterated; however, in my particular case it's 6000+ lbs. (verified using truck scale--includes driver and half a tank of gas) of vehicle weight... ;-)

deadwood--I should have clarified that my post of changes were from '03 to '04 model year, and I did mention the secondary visors. ;-)

As far as the navigation system is concerned--it might be wistful thinking on my part, but why couldn't GM go with a touch-screen one? And I understand the reasoning as to why you're not allowed to input destination data (other than the 5 preset/preprogrammed ones) while the vehicle is in motion, but still...

blockislandguy · May 2004

I see a lot of posts about the GM card being used for $2500 or so toward the purchase of a new vehicle. My company, like most, now uses AmEx for most credit card purchases for the discounts on UPS, Mobil and Airline miles. How does the GM card compare? Say, spending $3000 per month on the card, how long would it take to receive $2000 in "points" toward a GM vehicle?

cmeng · May 2004

The card gives you points based upon 5% of the charges. Spending $3,000 per month would generate $150 per month in "GM Bucks." It takes a little of the sting out of paying the college bills for me.

The only problem is that the "GM Bucks" can only be used for the lease or purchase of a NEW GM vehicle. If you expect to continue purchasing Tahoes or Yukons that is not a real problem.

boogga · May 2004

While I'm driving there is a loud whistling sound. It's coming from the front of my D/04 when I reach speeds over 30 MPH. It's not the windows, any Iidea how to stop it? I like driving with the windows down but this whistling is driving me nuts! PLEASE HELP!

deadwood · May 2004

Do you have a bug shield?

boogga · May 2004

I don't have a bug shield, I haven't put any after market items on. From the first day this has been occuring. I just left the dealership and test drove another brand new D and it does the samething. I talked to the service tech and he is going to research this issue.

Anyone else having this problem?

avolvofan · May 2004

The GM Card has gone through an interesting evolution - some improvements but also some limitations.

In its original incarnation, you could accrue a maximum of $500 per year in credits that could be applied against the purchase of a GM vehicle. At the end of 7 years, the oldest credit would be lost. Basically, you could accumulate a $3,500 ($500/year x 7 years) credit against the purchase price of a GM vehicle.

With the latest GM Card, there is an unlimited amount that can be accrued in credit each year, but there is a limit by model of what can be claimed as a credit against the purchase price.

In my circumstance, I was able to apply the $3,500 credit against the 2001 Denali. Then in 2003, as a result of switching cards in 2002, I was able to apply $2,500 against a 2003 Denali. If I had remained with the original GM Card, I would have had to wait 5 years to be able to apply a $2,500 credit toward the purchase of my second Denali.

y2kgts · May 2004

First off, I wish I could comment on the whistle noise, but haven't had that problem with our DXL. However, we have had two factory problems of note on the car:

1. Windshield molding is sticking WAY out on the top passenger side. So much so that the dealer is going to replace the whole windshield (their glass guy tried to re-glue the molding with no luck). It looks so-so, but my bigger worry was that it would trap a lot of water the way it was positioned. That is not good.

2. Vibration at highway speeds of 70-77 mph. Took it in and they suggested wheels out of balance. They weren't, and the vibration was worse after they re-balanced them (or so it seems). They now tell me there is a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) out for all the XL models and Suburbans for driveshaft issues that can cause a vibration. Personally, I still think it is either a balance or alignment issue, but they don't.

Good news is that we got the new entertainment system installed and it is excellent. Went with the 9" Vizualogic headrest displays (2), Audiovox DVD/TV tuner, Audiovox wireless headphones (infrared), and hook up for our game systems (110 power converter, A/V plugs, etc.). Got it all done and installed for under $2K. Very pleased!

Oh yeah, and on the XM Radio: I am underwhelmed. Reception is great and there are a LOT of choices to be had. Nonetheless, I was raised on FM radio where you could tune to your favorite style of music (rock, alternative, country, etc.) and count on hearing some stuff you could sing along to. In other words, 98% songs from the "top 40" of each category from various years and 2% new releases you never heard before. Yeah, yeah, I know that we are all slaves to the recording industry, but I LIKE to hum along to the songs I know. With XM radio it is the exact opposite: 2% of the content on any given station is stuff you hear more often (Alternative: Incubus, Audioslave, Linkin Park, etc.), while 98% is stuff you have never heard before from bands that are complete unknowns. While I will subscribe long enough after the 90 day "trial" to get us through our 6,000 mile summer roadtrip, I am not impressed with XM radio for your everyday driving where you can pick up local stations - ads and all.

Whew!

lobsenza · May 2004

I have Srius and like it a lot. It sounds closer to the definitiion of what you want.

hanz300 · May 2004

I really want another YUKON XL but require the center seating position of the third row seat to have a three point safety belt. Any ideas? Any aftermarket solutions? Will the 2005 have this safety feature? I can't believe GM has missed the boat one this one. The second row bench center seating position comes with a three point harness, why not the third row seat? Help!

dako_tian · May 2004

I struggled with the same problem for the safety for the 4 adults and 4 children on a driving vacation this summer. Fortunately, my daughter is still in a child safety seat (not yet a booster) and I can put her in that third row, middle position. The seat belt will be sufficient to anchor the safety seat (I don't think there are any Latch system connections back there on our 2003 YXL SLE) when coupled with the tether. Then everyone else, including my booster-seated son, will have a shoulder harness.

If you can't do something like that, then I have no answer for you. Best of luck!

hanz300 · May 2004

Thank you for the feedback. I have 5 children, the oldest 10, the youngest 18 months. This equates to 1 child safety seat and 2 boosters. I really like the quad seating, easier on everyone and safer. The ingress and egress with the spilt second row is dangerous.
When will the NHTSA mandate three point harness for all seating positions?

Dear GM, Please listen up, you got the vehicle, changes are required for a safer eight passenger vehicle.

y2kgts · May 2004

Okay, it has been about a month since we got the 2004 Denali XL. It has been in the shop for about six days of that, some of which was by choice (elected to leave it at the dealership over the weekend as we had a nice rental truck to abuse). If you read my previous posts, you know we had a problem with a vibration at speed, as well as a bad windshield molding. Results:

Replaced the entire windshield. Fairly pleased except for little fragments of glass still littering the dash and carpet (assume they broke the original windshield to remove it). Washed it last night and found a small wet spot on the driver's floor. Don't know if the new windshield leaked or if it was from something else (opening the door, wet towel, etc.). Will watch for this next time.

Replaced the driveshaft and they test drove it. Said that they still had a vibration, only at 55 mph instead of 70+. "Road force tested" the tires and found one of the Goodyears out of round (wish they still came with Michelins). Replaced it with new tire (identical make and model) and the vibration is gone!

No other problems other than the first door ding after spending about four hours putting Zaino polish on it. Some soccer mom at my son's baseball game nailed it pretty good. Sigh...

Still miffed that they removed the footwell lights and EVERY single inside lock (no place to secure your valuables), but am otherwise pretty pleased overall. Oh yeah, and one other REALLY strange thing: Unlike every single GM product I have owned over the years, the key does not have an "accessory" position one turn back from "off". So to listen to the radio after you have turned off the car you need to turn the key one click forward, which leaves the battery warning light illuminated. Either I am stupid trying to figure this out (and I won't sell myself short), or GM has once again made a completely bone-headed move that accomplishes absolutely nothing besides irritating their customers. The car could be darn near perfect if they had just left a few things alone.

beach15 · May 2004

We have 3 GM cars right now, and none of them allows you to listen to the radio or operate accessories by turning the key backwards. They key will go that way, it just doesn't do anything (don't ask me why...).

To listen to the radio or operate the power stuff, the only way is to click the key forward or, in my case, just turn the car off after having it on and everything will still get juice for 10 minutes or until a door is opened when it is cut off. Try just clicking the key forward until all the gauges come on and then move it back and take it out, and you should still have power running and be able to use the stereo.

y2kgts · June 2004

Yep, I knew about the "delayed off" feature and like that for sure. It has just been that with all of my previous GM products (guessing 30+ at this point), the "accessory" position on the key cylinder was always one turn backwards. Back in the golden olden days if you left your key in the forward position for your accessories (with all the other warning lights on) you could actually damage your ignition system (burn out the points, etc.). Now I am not ancient (41), however it just seems that the only cars to have the accessory position in the forward position were imports. Even my 2003 Dodge has the accessory position one click backwards.

It just seems strange that the only true "accessory" position on this one triggers the battery warning light. This is not what ANY car does in the accessory position. Yeah, yeah - it appears to be a mountain out of a molehill, but is really just an observation on my part...

GMC Yukon / Yukon Denali

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