2008 Pontiac G8

subearu · April 2007

Plenty of Chryslers around town, after all it's home to an engine plant (which was an AMC plant long ago).

At times this town dumps more salt than there is snow on the ground...

Robert: do you work for Quad?

-Brian

rockylee · April 2007

hammen2,

don't rule out a 500+ hp. motor in a HSV like version of the G8, as I was only quoting a leak from GM, gathered by Motor Trend.

Rocky

hammen2 · April 2007

...their rumor accuracy rate is pretty poor.

FoaF works for GM and has spilled the beans about the ZL-1 name for the "Blue Devil" Vette awhile ago. He also told me about the LS3/LS9/LSA a long time ago. No LS7 for the G8 - would make it > $50k, since that motor is hand-built. Expect Pontiac to target the Charger SRT-8 cars with the G8 GXP (the G8 GT compares well, feature-wise, to the Charger R/T), but to undercut them slightly in pricing. You might see some HSV body panels/pieces/parts on the GXP (maybe the concept's wheels?)...

Lots of people griping about the G8 having "only" 362 hp stock, compared to the 400 HP in the LS2-powered GTO.

However, this doesn't take into account:

a) the L76 motor (with DoD/AFM, the 6-speed auto tranny, and tuned for regular gas) gets no gas guzzler tax.
b) the L76 uses LS7-style heads
c) with a cam + upgraded springs + 93-octane tune, expect 450-500 hp. Like the L92, the L76 is going to take to modifications EXTREMELY well... undoubtedly the LS3 will share some of these characteristics...

--Robert
doesn't work for Quad/Graphics

rayainsw · April 2007

a) the L76 motor (with DoD/AFM, the 6-speed auto tranny, and tuned for regular gas) gets no gas guzzler tax.

Source?
Though I believe youll be proven correct, Id be very surprised if official EPA numbers were released by GM much before the MSRP numbers . . . And I dont expect to see those much before cars hit dealer lots. Though rumors abound.

. . .

c) with a cam + upgraded springs + 93-octane tune, expect 450-500 hp. Like the L92, the L76 is going to take to modifications EXTREMELY well... undoubtedly the LS3 will share some of these characteristics...

During the period of my ownership of a 2005 Grand Prix GXP, my distinct impression was that the 5.3L LS4 V8 w/DoD did not seem to be easy to modify, from the standpoint of things like cams & related components. Because of the DoD related stuff.

( Last I knew, there was still very little in that realm available for the LS4  but I have been out of the GXP for 6 months or so now, so that could have changed. )

But more to the point, for the average buyer, my sense is that the actual stock Torque delivery and the first gear [times] final drive ratio will be what people perceive as HP. And the acceleration of the stock L76 w/6L80 will likely be sufficient for most potential buyers. Possibly even for me. Regardless of rated HP.

Well see  in a while.
- Ray
Waiting ( oh, so ) patiently . . .

rockylee · April 2007

...their rumor accuracy rate is pretty poor.

I think it's quite high. Sure they get leaks that are wrong because economics and the car business can change so much in 2 0r 3 years time but I think they get more right than wrong.

Rocky

holdenguy · May 2007

Turn you volume up to full bore for this one ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qu1gfe3g4Q

rockylee · May 2007

Sounds great........

-Rocky

rayainsw · May 2007

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=120615?tid=edmun- ds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

1487 · May 2007

The G8 is going to be hot, the numbers the Holden put up are impressive and are on par with a 550i or M45. They compared it to the 330 and 335 but both are much smaller and a few hundred pounds lighter. This car can easily take on the M45, 550 or STS. I think this will definitely push the 300C into second place amongst large RWD american cars.

rayainsw · May 2007

While agree that the G8 will be hot, I am not sure it will be on a par with the M45 or 550i.

The M45 seems to typically posts mid to high 13s, with ( obviously ) their 5 speed automatic trans. Partly due to pretty aggressive gearing. No manual trans. available.

The 550i C+D test shows 13.7 at 104  with a 6 speed automatic. On a day when they recorded an M45 Sport at 14.5 @ 100. And that is the slowest ( least quick ) time I recall seeing for the M45 since the initial flurry of tests at introduction time . . . And R&T tested the 545i at 13.7 \ 104 a while back.

The HP \ TQ ratings for the M45s V8 are: 335 \ 340. ( Premium )
The G8 is 362 \ 391. ( Regular )
With a bit less weight, but also with substantially less aggressive final drive gearing, I wonder what the actual, independent test numbers for the G8 will finally be. The 6L80 does provide a reasonable overall first gear ratio ( 2.92 final times 4.03 first gear = 11.76 to 1 ) but the M45 overall is even more aggressive, at 12.87 to 1. Hmm. And second for the M is 2.37 and 7.96 overall  vs the G8s second gear of 2.36, but 6.89 overall.

My guess, based on all this ( certainly does not qualify as real analysis ) is that the G8 GT \ V8 with automatic will end up posting similar but a not quite as quick numbers to the M45 for 0-60 & the quarter mile.

The G8 looks to be 14 flat-ish with the 6 speed manual.

So  anyway, automatic to automatic, my ** GUESS ** is that the G8 will likely be a low 14s sedan. Not quite as quick as either the M45 or the BMW 550i, Id estimate. Weight & gearing will conspire against that. Though the gearing in the G8 w/6L80 ought to provide a healthy dose of the ( relatively ) low RPM at cruise that I prefer  particularly compared to the M45 with the Infinitis 5 speed automatic . . .

- Ray
Wondering when actual (pre-)production examples will first be provided to the Press . . .

holdenguy · June 2007

Mate,
I have not been here for a while,busy,footy season and been interstate.
Below is a link to the car I'm buying, the only bummer is I have to drive 1800 km to get it, and 1800 km back.
Still, it will be good to see how she goes on the highways.

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/HOLDEN/COMMODORE/details.aspx?__Ns=pCar_Odometer_Single|0||pCar_StatusSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|0&Make=HOLDEN&__Nne=20&R=813024&state_id=0&__No=60&__N=4294965857 0 4294965745 4294932735 834 285 258 287&distance=500&trecs=98&Model=COMMODORE&__sid=1130D2ADA7C2&sort_type=9&silo=1000&Cr=9&seot=0&State=All States

holdenguy · June 2007

holdenguy · July 2007

Firstly,
Sorry about the link above not working.
That's because I bought the car and it's now off the net.
Got myself an '04 VZ SS Commodore sedan in blue.
Beautiful to drive and goes like hell too, 0 to 60 mph in
5.9 secs.
And I have not done anything to it yet, thats coming ;-)

To the goss mate,
HSV want a part of the action over there, my guess is that HSV's will become available to you next year.
Now, the big goss is this,
HSV have just announced a new car called the HSV GTS-R.
This baby has the LS7 motor mated to the T56 MM6 box.
You may say that this is the same running gear as the Vette ZO6.
You would be right.
But the HSV version puts out 385 kws(531hp) vs the Vette's 377.
They are starting with a limited run of these, but are already taking orders for them.
The future is looking bright for you mate.

paisan · July 2007

Unfortunately the rule in the US with GM is that no car can put out more HP than the vette. This has always held Pontiac back for years going back to the Trans Am days. They held off the Ram-Air Trans Am because it would have boosted the TA over the HP of the vette. GM won't let that happen in the US.

-mike

vic10 · July 2007

at the 35th Pontiac Oakland Motor car rally here in Tulsa. Neat looking. Very European interior (two tone, accent stitching), though it looks like it would be a tight fit. I thought the front and back ends a bit on the boring side but liked the overall look--it appeared to be chisled out of a solid piece of iron. An impressive looking vehicle. Unfortunately, next to the 1962--'66 Bonnevilles and '69 series Grand Prix that were there (which I think were among the most stunning vehicles to come out of Detroit), it seemed a bit, well, boring.....

qbrozen · July 2007

huh? You saw a car that hasn't been built yet? You sure about that?

Or do you mean you saw a Holden Commodore?

rayainsw · July 2007

In addition to the 'show car', there is also ( at least ) one other G8 in the US - a red one, making the rounds.....

http://g8gt.com/t838/

actualsize · July 2007

One of our staff saw a G8 GT mule in San Diego this week. It was a left-hand drive car with Chevy Lumina SS badges. The Chevy bow tie and Lumina labels were taped-over, but the SS was not. It had Michigan manufacturer plates on it. The Holden Commodore is sold in the Middle East as a Lumina.

qbrozen · July 2007

Something about those pics bugs me. I don't know WHY anyone would doctor pics of a G8... BUT, it seems odd to me that the only blurry areas of both photos are where the emblems and grille are. Even the buttons on the guy's suit in the background is sharp. So to have the only areas that definitely say what car this is be blurry seems suspicious to me.

maybe I'm just paranoid.

vic10 · July 2007

Nope. It was badged as a G8. Matched the G8 in the posters they were handing out. Sort of a dark greenish gray metallic exterior, green/gray interior with yellow inserts in the seats and door panels (looked MUCH better than it sounds.)

actualsize · July 2007

I believe it. I'm sure you stumbled upon a focus group or dealer preview.

qbrozen · July 2007

did you get one of the posters? I'm sure someone somewhere must have scanned it and put it on the net, no?

I'd like to see this interior you speak of. You are right, it sounds horrible. LOL.

vic10 · July 2007

The poster was only of the exterior and it pretty much is the same shot as you get from the Pontiac website. As for the interior, well, think of what Ferrari would do for a 4-door sedan and that's the look. The exaggerated stitching on the leather was very Italian looking and is really what took it out of the ordinary. Couldn't sit in it but it looked BMW300 series size. And forget about working on the motor. The 6L V8 totally filled the compartment. I doubt that you could slide you hand in anywhere. If only they could jazz up the front a bit more....

hammen2 · July 2007

There are at least 2 pre-production G8's in the US... a dark charcoal grey car, with tan interior and 20" HSV wheels (niehter of which will make production), and a red one. There are numerous reprots of sightings of "Chevy Lumina SS" cars - a white LHD one in Detroit (right in front of the Renaissance Center), a blue RHD one in Maryland... so not surprising that there was another in San Diego. The Lumina SS is a Commodore exported to the Middle East (in LHD form) and South Africa (in RHD form)... they probably don't have production G8 hoods/front facias, so they're just using the Lumina SS badging/guise for prototype cars...

The car is more 5-series sized than 3-series, the proportions just make it look smaller (interior room is between the Grand Prix and the Bonneville, so it is not a small car). I haven't seen a "naked" L76 engine with the turtle-shell engine cover removed, so I'll reserve judgement on ow accessible the motor/plugs/etc. are until I do that.

The grey G8 was at the GTOAA NAtionals in Columbus last month... I took a ton of pictures which I'll make into a gallery and link up here sometime in the next day or so...

qbrozen · July 2007

The grey G8 was at the GTOAA NAtionals in Columbus last month... I took a ton of pictures which I'll make into a gallery and link up here sometime in the next day or so...

Nice. Looking forward to it.

rayainsw · July 2007

6.0L without 'turtle-shell cover' . . .
".. VE Commodore 6.0 V8 engine "
Probably NOT the L76 version - but likely very similar..??

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4983#post4983

qbrozen · July 2007

yup. still really really tight in there. That CAI pic is pretty sweet.

hammen2 · July 2007

I went to create a gallery, and found I'd already uploaded one to my website:

http://www.hammen.net/2007GTOAANatsG8/

vic10 · July 2007

Yup, same one that was in Tulsa.

qbrozen · July 2007

Thanks for posting that.

I still gotta wait to see it in person. So far all pics I've seen just don't excite me. But the engine does!

hammen2 · July 2007

...that looks much better in person than in pictures. The pictures make it look small, but it's sizeable in person.

I also think that the red G8 looks much, much better than the grey (but, IMHO, the Commodore SS front fascia/scoopless hood looks better still than the G8. If only you didn't have to change both pieces, I would probably do a Commodore conversion when I get my G8...

bryan · July 2007

The upcoming G8 received four stars. I believe the '08 CTS did too. I'm just trying to decide on what color I want my new G8 in! Can't wait.

1487 · July 2007

I saw that, I guess they based that on their drive of the commodore a few months back. Its good news for GM and pontiac. They also gave the Astra a good rating. The G8 actually got a better rating than the CTS.

bryan · July 2007

Now that you mention it, I believe the CTS got 3 1/2 stars? I was slightly foggy while reading MT on the tarmac at the Atlanta airport Sunday during a 5 hour flight delay. Oh well, I may have been cooped up in the "tube", but I spent some good time lost in car dreams!

I have the gunmetal gray on my '04 Bonny GXP. I'm anxious to see what colors will be available on the G8. My Pontiac dealer's GM is a neighbor and good friend, and about three months ago he told me to just pick out what color I want and he'll order one for me, fully loaded of course. I saw the pix of the car in the metallic red, and thought that was nice. It depends on what interior colors are offered too. We shall see!

rayainsw · July 2007

"'m anxious to see what colors will be available on the G8."

http://www.gmfleet.com/pdf/2008_car_and_truck_guide.pdf

p38

corvette · July 2007

Well, the black and the charcoal exterior colors should work well if you want to hide the ugly nose.

actualsize · August 2007

It's nice to see that some of the Aussie colors will be sold here. I'm not surprised they opted out of Morpheus (metallic purple) but it does look a lot better than it sounds.

bryan · August 2007

K-Pow Blue perhaps, depending upon the interior colors available. I'll have to see larger samples in person to make my final choice. The Ignition (orange?) might be fun, we'll see! I don't agree with corvette's read on the nose of the car--I think it works perfectly for that car.

rayainsw · August 2007

"depending upon the interior colors available"

Latest I have seen:

Trim:
Onyx Cloth
Onyx Leather
Onyx/Red Cloth
Onyx/Red Leather

- Ray
Wondering what quality cloth GM will choose . . .

bryan · August 2007

Wow Ray, you are a wealth of info. Thanks so much for this latest tidbit, and especially the link to the GM guide in your earlier message. I followed your Grand Prix GXP odyssey, transmission issue, etc. in that thread, and you now have a Corvette, IIRC. I looked at the GP GXP at my dealer's GM's behest, but I just like my Bonny GXP better style wise. This guy has a knack for ordering cars that he knows will tempt me. He'll order anything I want without any $$$, and if I don't want it, no problem. I guess after three new cars in 12 months, and the fact that I have ALL my service requirements done there, he knows I'm always "looking". I usually start wishing for the next car while driving off with the new one

I have the two-tone dark gray leather with the light gray ultrasuede inserts in the Bonny GXP, and the neutral cashmere in my '03 Olds Aurora. I prefer the lighter colored interior, but I guess I'll "suffer" with the Onyx/Red leather for the G8. But I wonder how that would look with a blue exterior? I'm not keen on black, but I'll defer to the GM when he orders--I've not been disappointed yet.

rayainsw · August 2007

I followed your Grand Prix GXP odyssey, transmission issue, etc. in that thread, and you now have a Corvette, IIRC.

I did have a 2005 GXP. ( Early build. ) And I did have the trans. replaced.

I now have a 2007 Corvette with ( essentially ) the same automatic trans. that will be in the 2008 G8 GTs = the 6L80.

Interesting ( and annoying ) to me that the trans. in my Corvette experienced a failure also. Now I hasten to add here: I do ** NOT ** in any way abuse my vehicles. Ever. Not that I dont accelerate quickly, etc.  but I do not indulge in anything anyone cold term  abuse.

Yet - after many, many years of driving automatics with absolutely no issues or repairs required, 2 consecutive GM vehicles have had major transmission issues  each within the first 12,000 miles.

A few details may be of interest to those here ( and on-topic, given the G8 V8s trans will be so similar ) regarding my Corvettes failure:

My 2007 Coupe had been near perfect in over 10,500 miles ( 7 months of Daily Driver \ commuter duty, as well as a couple of longer trips ) but I began to encounter a problem that seriously concerned me:

On acceleration, at shift points, the RPM would rise significantly as an upshift executes. [ flare? ] Sounded \ felt to me ( not a trans. engineer ) like the trans. was slipping.

This had happened to me, to a lesser degree, every once in a while over the past few months  say once a week or so. But one day, driving to lunch, it happened on something approaching half of all the shifts.

Did not seem to matter if it was in S w/paddles active ( as I typically drive ) just S shifting for itself, or D. Accelerator position seemed not to be a factor.

It happened as I drove out of my work parking lot, after sitting for over 4 hours  thus the trans. was as cool as it will be in 80+ degree weather. The trans. temp typically tops out at 207 on the stop-n-go portion of my commute home, and it did not seem any worse ( or any better ) on that drive than earlier when the trans. was cooler.

Once in any gear, things seem fine. Meaning: The TCC unlock \ lockup appears to be working fine & downshifts appeared unaffected  no unexpected RPM fluctuations. Though it was still intermittent, I called my dealer and scheduled an appointment for the next Monday.

A couple of days later ( a Saturday, of course ), after a couple of apparent shift attempts with long neutral between gears, the trans. stuck in second gear. And the CEL lit, at the same time. ( I was afraid that before the end of that drive, I might end up with a box full of neutrals . . . ) Parked it.

On Monday AM, after another few shift problems, the trans. locked in third gear  and I continued directly to my Dealer.

I stuck to relatively rural roads, kept my speed under about 50 ( about 2,500 RPM ) and made it without further incident to my Dealer. But not much fun.

When I received the car back ( after a week ) it shifted as new.

Some details \ specific from the Repair Order:

CAUSE: P0700 P2724 P2715
PRESSURE CONTROL SOLENOID #5 STUCK ON
K6562 REPLACE TCM AND REPROGRAM PCM
1 24238968 VALVE ASM, CONT SOL
1 24236927 F-SEAL KIT
1 24236931 F-FILTER KIT
7 FLUID
FC: 180FA
PART#: 24238968
COUT: 10

OBD II Codes:
P0700 - Transmission Control System Malfunction
P0700 Transmission Control System (MIL Request)
P2724 Pressure Control Solenoid "E" Stuck On
P2715 Pressure Control Solenoid "D" Stuck On
. . . from a couple of Web sources . . .

It took 5 business days for all the parts to arrive  and less than an hour on a lift for the actual repair.

This was particularly annoying to me, since I had waited for a 2007  after the 6 speed automatic trans was introduced for model year 2006 on the Corvette  specifically hoping that any potential issues with the transmission would be resolved, before mine was built.
[[ sigh ]]

Yet the G8 V8 ( another GM product, with virtually the same trans. that failed on me a couple of months ago ) remains at or near the top of my list as a possible replacement for the Corvette  when that time comes . . .

- Ray
Not necessarily always ( ever? ) logical  when it comes to cars . . .

bryan · August 2007

"Not necessarily always ( ever? ) logical  when it comes to cars . . ."

I would worry if you were

I don't think many "logical" people hang on these boards. That's what makes it so fun.

jpstax1 · August 2007

Awesome guide! Thanks for the link.

corvette · August 2007

There is an ad on the left side of the page for the Pontiac Grand Prix, advertising 303 HP in one part of the animation, then 30 highway MPG in another part... Pretty misleading, as those aren't with the same configuration!

qbrozen · August 2007

Pretty typical. I see it all the time in car commercials on TV or ads in the magazines.

rayainsw · August 2007

Pontiac Beefs Up High-Performance Offerings With New 2008 Torrent and G6 GXPs
Date posted: 08-02-2007

DETROIT  General Motors revealed details of what's to come with the new Pontiac G8 performance sedan this week, saying the lineup will "offer a V6-powered base model and a V8-equipped GT model." The Pontiac G8 is the automaker's first North American application of GM's new global rear-wheel-drive architecture. It will arrive in showrooms in January.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=121950

- Ray
Who had hoped to test drive one a little earlier.....

elias · August 2007

they seem to have "forgotten" to offer a manual transmission on the G8. maybe for 2009?

actualsize · August 2007

What? Where do they say THAT?

rayainsw · August 2007

GM said, back in February, that a 6-speed manual would become available for the V8 - just would not be available in N.A. right at launch:

"The G8 GT is powered by a uniquely configured 6.0L small-block V-8, rated at 362 horsepower (270 kW) and 391 lb.-ft. of torque (530 Nm). A six-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode is standard and features the fuel-saving Active Fuel Management system, which enhances fuel economy by alternating between eight- and four-cylinder power. An optional six-speed manual transmission will be available soon after launch."

http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/events/autoshows/07chicago/brands/pontiac/inde- x.html

nojets · August 2007

I would LOVE to buy this car when it is released, preferably they way it looks in the UK or Australia without all the Pontiac ticky-tacky bits GM insists on here in the US. BUT most of all, what will kill sales of the G8 in this country, and will send ME running from the Pontiac dealer in frustration, is if they put the bloody fuel tank in the trunk again, giving the vehicle less load carrying capacity than a Hollywood starlet's handbag on Oscar night. Oh GM, hear my plea, and figure out the crash regulations with some engineering, not a "workaround"!

2008 Pontiac G8

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