2008 Pontiac G8

qbrozen · November 2007

atleast the v8, is produced in mexico....in these days of 98 dollar barrel of oil...this does not sound like a recipe for success

I don't think I'm following your train of thought here. What does the price of oil have to do with where the engine is manufactured?

rayainsw · November 2007

OK. Ill play this game.

I will go out on ** MY ** limb & predict:

1) That the 2008 G8 will sell very well.

2) That the 2009 will include some of the missing items some people are looking for \ waiting for. The M6, among them. And XM. And a wider array of interior colors.

3) That HIDs & a heated steering wheel are not in the cards - at least for '08 or '09.

4) That we will not see oil at $55/bbl again in our lifetime . . . If ever.

Cheers,
- Ray
Well see how accurate we both are  in a year or so . . .

justgreat47 · November 2007

the cost of a barrel of oil was mentioned due to the shipping costs of sending the motors from mexico to australia....and then shipping the completed product to america...all things that will escalate the cost of the vehicle...not to mention the decreasing value of the dollar against other currencies.

i hope i'm wrong on my predictions as far as the sales go, there can't be too many rwd v6/v8 platforms in my book. i just don't think the car will sell in numbers that gm will support the vehicle...they will bail on it...on the other hand, what else will they have to offer, to replace the grand prix.

jackg
06sts6

qbrozen · November 2007

AHHH... ok. I got ya.

Well, I'm sure the bean counters watch that stuff very closely. If it becomes more expensive to manufacture in Mexico than the US, you can be sure they would change that. I believe oil would have to surpass its current cost by a very very wide margin to make that a reality, however, given what I am assuming are remarkably low labor costs in Mexico compared to the UAW.

rayainsw · November 2007

I am certain that the costs of shipping were carefully considered when the MSRPs were set. I am also reasonably certain that GM \ Pontiac considered such other factors as:

1) Pontiac needs a sales success. The G8 needs to sell, needs to live up to the pre-introduction expectations regarding performance, quality, etc.

2) In addition to a very competent Sports Sedan, aggressive pricing is also part of what Pontiac probably needs to begin to (re-)establish itself as a Performance Division of GM.

3) If the G8 is not a success for Pontiac, I expect that in 3 to 5 years, then the Pontiac Brand will go the way of the Dodo  and Oldsmobile.

Regarding sales numbers & support the vehicle: Keep in mind that the G8 is ( only ) a N.A. version of a platform that is expected to sell in relatively large numbers, globally.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0709_2008_pontiac_g8

And there is an expectation that production of North American destined G8s will move to the Oshawa, Canada plant at some point. Where the GP has been built.

Even if the G8 is not a terrific sales success initially, GM simply cannot afford to bail on the platform.

- Ray
End predictions . . .

actualsize · November 2007

Despite the presence or absence of specific detail features, I think the G8 will fly off showroom floors.

It looks great. It drives and handles very well and is plenty fast (I drove a Commodore when I visited Oz). It has a functional interior with a decent sized back seat. And the price is reasonable.

I expect the G8 GT will be 98% the same. It's the GM-flavored rear-drive sports sedan a lot of us have been waiting for for a long time.

To the 6'5" driver concerned about the 6-ways: No problem. Aussies are big, so you're within the design envelope. I'm 6'2" myself and I had plenty of space to spare. I don't remember needing to put the seat all the way back and the telescopic wheel pulled plenty out far enough.

rayainsw · November 2007

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=123602?tid=edm- - unds.il.home.photopanel..3.*

I am posting this without specific reference to the fact that this test is on the UTE version, because I am going to focus on what I see as likely predictors of what Id actually buy: A G8 GT with automatic.

The 0  60 time is a bit less quick than GM \ Pontiac is advertising.

But the Quarter Mile time of 13.8 is reasonable. Wonder what the trap speed was?

Anyway  this is the first US based [ test by a US based publication ] test I have seen that seems to tell me something about what a G8 GT will likely produce for acceleration numbers.

AND: throttle blips on downshifts I find very encouraging.

- Ray
Waiting, still . . .

dblduce · November 2007

I bought a GXP in 2005, mainly because of the looks. The dealer had a GXP AND a GTO in the showroom, and frankly, the GTO just didnt do anything for me. It looked too bland, which is why I think it didnt sell well. The other thing that persuaded me was that GM had just started their "employee discount" program to everyone, and the $32,000 GXP was marked down to $26,000, but the $32,000 GTO was NOT discounted.

I will def. look into the G8's in another year or 2 when I'll be ready to trade again, but only if they keep the styling typical of pontiac, and the price is competitive.

circlew · November 2007

OK, I'll bite, too.

Remember the GTO? Same formula to me.

If not made in the US, how can it compete against the other imports?

Regards,
OW

circlew · November 2007

The dealer had a GXP AND a GTO in the showroom, and frankly, the GTO just didnt do anything for me.

I felt EXACTLY the same way. Since I already owned a GTP, I declined Pontiac altogether back in 2006. I'll check out the G8 but it does look promising. If they play the same game as the GTO with pricing, I simply will walk away.

"

Regards,
OW<

rayainsw · November 2007

If not made in the US, how can it compete against the other imports?

Hmmm.
Apparently I am dense.
If the G8 is ( for a while, at least ) built in Australia & imported, how does that make it unable to compete against other imports?

Whether made in Japan, Korea, Germany or England  how does that mean a better competitive position vs a sedan made in Australia?

And I have read quotes from Lutz indication that GM \ Pontiac has learned from some ( unfortunate ) GTO experience.

Dealers still have final say in setting actual transaction pricing, but MSRPs for the 2008 model run of G8 GTs appear reasonable & competitive, to me.

Can you help me understand what you mean in your statement?

Thanks,
- Ray
Confused, as usual . . .

circlew · November 2007

Sorry for the confusion. My bad for not being more clear.

I assume the other import brands that produce in the US. Some of them do not have union contracts so I am thinking it will be harder to compete on price.

I hope they did learn from the GTO. But I need to feel that when I walk into a dealer. I have super-high expectation form the OLD big 3 so please excuse my obvious skepticism. Everyone deserves a second chance but blunder after blunder got real old to me and I am full.

Also, it might be just me but I see a Saturn-like resemblance from the rear view of this car.?

Regards,
OW

qbrozen · November 2007

The price has already been announced.

So what RWD V8 imports are they not competitively priced against at $30k?

Or are we talking about bread n' butter V6 models? In which case, considering something like an Accord is over $30k full loaded, that would indicate to me that I could step over to the Pontiac dealer and get a RWD V8 for the same money. Seems good to me.

paisan · November 2007

Funny thing is that I like to drive my 400hp cars fast. The GTO being stealthy and NOT sticking out would have been an advantage in my book.

I'm the guy who buys an STi and takes off the wing and big scoop, takes off the gold wheels, and paints the gold brakes black.

-mike

qbrozen · November 2007

I'm the guy who buys an STi and takes off the wing and big scoop, takes off the gold wheels, and paints the gold brakes black.

well that's just good taste on your part. ;b

rayainsw · November 2007

The price has already been announced.

So what RWD V8 imports are they not competitively priced against at $30k?

Exactly. The MSRP has been set. For now, I think we need to set aside speculation about what dealers might charge. Pontiac has set what I see as aggressive pricing, given the basic specifications & the reports I have read.

The G8 V8 looks likely to post acceleration numbers comparable to a BMW 545 \ 550 V8 or an Infiniti M45.

It would clearly be unrealistic to expect BMW 5 series levels of ** EVERYTHING **, but the remaining questions in my mind are:

Will the G8 GT provide something that is good enough ( for me ) in the areas of ride, handling & braking. Rev matching on manumatic downshifts. Interior materials, fit & finish. Ergonomics. Front seat comfort, support & adjustability. Control relationships & feel. Outward vision. Etc.

All stuff that requires I actually drive one.

The first question, more generally, is going to be whether or not Pontiac is able to provide both very good acceleration numbers ( looks very likely ) in combination with something like 85 or 90% of the BMW goodness in things like feel and refinement  for a very substantially reduced price.

And, if the answer to the first question is: Yes. Then the second question is what dealers will actually ( try to ) charge.

For several reasons, when I last purchased a Pontiac ( 2005 ) I ended up disgusted with all local dealers here near Atlanta & I negotiated via e-mail & telephone with a $49 over invoice & no additional fees dealer just over 100 miles north of where I live. The deal when very smoothly, and if I do buy a G8 I will likely buy from them again.

We shall see . . .

- Ray
Waiting to see . . .

dblduce · November 2007

I like lots of horsepower too, but there's more to a car than just having the hp, IMO. I want something that LOOKS good also. That is why I decided a long time ago to buy Pontiac cars. They are known for their styling, as well as performance. What they did w/ their last attempt at the GTO would be comparable to Chevy designing the Corvette to look like an Accord, but keeping the same engine! Yeah, it might still be fun to drive, but wouldnt look nearly as cool!

Thats one of the biggest reasons I will never own a "foreign" car, is because of the styling. If you line them all up side by side, they all blend in with everything else on the road and have no details that make them stand out in a crowd. I for one still love to look out in my driveway and see my GXP all shined up just sitting there, as well as driving it. How many people can say that about their Honda or Toyota? LOL

I still turn my head when I see a nicely styled car on the road, or drive by a dealership and something catches my eye, even though it doesnt happen as much as it used to because lets face it, car styling isnt what it used to be, thats why I still stay with Pontiac. Im not a big Dodge fan, but over the summer a dealership nearby had a lime-green Charger SRT sitting out by the road, and I could spot it from half a mile away! It was a nice looking car, something that would look cool driving down the street, as well as turn a few heads in the process. To me, THAT is cool.

rayainsw · November 2007

Recently posted:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/FREE/71129001/1065

fsmmcsi · December 2007

Now that we know that the G8 ST car-truck will also be available, Those of us who need the utility it offers will be able to buy a G8.

paisan · December 2007

No MT available? Is that what I read there? That's a bummer.

-mike

qbrozen · December 2007

not yet. they've been saying from the get-go that the 6-MT will come some time after initial launch.

paisan · December 2007

Ah ha, so it will come, just not initially. Hopefully they actually do that and it's not a scam....

-mike

rayainsw · December 2007

... now posted on fueleconomy.gov.

Here is the context I see for these ( now official ) EPA numbers:

G8 A6 = 15 \ 24 [ 2008 ]

Corvette A6 = 15 \ 25 [ 2008 ]
Corvette A6 [ 2007 ] WAS 17 \ 27
Would have been 15 \ 25 under the new \ 2008 EPA scheme

So.

I happened to fill my Corvette ( 2007 with essentially the same A6 trans. as the G8 GT \ V8 will have ) with gas on Wednesday morning & drove from where I live, northeast of Atlanta, to Macon & back. As I was approaching Atlanta on the return leg  after approx. 185 miles, the Driver Information Center AVG MPG read just over 31. This was driving with traffic  mostly 65 to 75 MPH on the highway portions, with 10 or 15 miles of in-town traffic driving thrown in. Looking at the both the run down & back cancels out any effect of elevation change.

Thus, if the EPA highway rating for the G8 is accurate, I could expect roughly 30 MPG, in an identical run.

Thatd be OK with me . . .

- Ray
Well see what owners report in the real world . . .

elias · December 2007

30 mpg in a G8? not going to happen...
25 mpg is also unlikely, based on my GTO-naro 6-spd experience.

circlew · December 2007

I assume the weight of the G8 will be 500 - 600 lbs. more than your 'Vette. That calculates to about 19 mpg combined driving in my book.

Regards,
OW

actualsize · December 2007

The G8 GT is essentially a largish, sport-oriented rear-drive sedan with a Corvette motor in it. Expecting it to also be a thrifty MPG machine is missing the point, I think. Buy something else if a consistent 25 to 30 mpg is important to you.

circlew · December 2007

Agreed. You don't buy a 'Vette for the efficiency either.

ReGARDS,
ow

mrsyj · December 2007

does anyone know when this car can be tested by the media? I am curious.

shaig · December 2007

I stopped by my dealer (Kirkland, WA). They claim they will have a base G8 in the showroom within 30 days .He did not have any of the G8 collateral available, only some generic Pontiac mag that featured the G8 on its cover. Availability of the first few models was tagged for March, at which point he would have a GT model in the showroom. The first shipment of G8's was claimed to contain only 800 for distribution to all Pontiac dealers.

He warned me that the car would be in "high demand" and that it would be hot! I could see the $$$ signs dripping from his eyes.

The interesting point is that he claimed his dealership had an allocation of only 20 GT models in the 2008 model year, and that only because they are the leading Pontiac dealer in the PacNW (the latter is a factual claim). So, does anyone know what the production volume for the GTs is expected to be? The numbers would argue no more than 15,000. Can anyone confirm or rebut?

circlew · December 2007

Look at the GTO history. 15,000 would be a lot. Judging from the Lambda 3 CUV's distribution in their first model year, expect to see price gouging from this import.

Nothing new, really.

BMW's will look like a bargain vs. the G8 in '08!!

Regards,
OW

mrsyj · December 2007

They have announced production of 40k-50k cars which isnt a lot at all. The Grand Prix sells far more than that although many of its sales are to fleets. I would think this car will be selling very close to MSRP for a while.

I read that the first shipment of cars has left Austalia already. They have already run print ads in magazines so I am thinking you will see cars on lots by the end of January. I just want to know when it will be tested by magazines.

circlew · December 2007

My dealer is allocated one (Central NJ) due in Feb/March). Many will buy this without a test drive which is not a good policy.

I will wager that when the dealers do get in their measly allocations, the MSRP will be exceeded by a few grand, as was during the advent of the GTO.

Any takers?

Regards,
OW

pao · December 2007

probably the same thing will happen when the new Solstice was released in 06...many dealers that had one on the lot wouldnt even let you test drive it.....and all were sold for MSRP or over........wait a few months for the frenzy to subside...then order it......thats what Im doing with the CTS......will order this spring....and dealers are giving me near invoice if I order....and charging close to MSRP if buying off the lot..because they can.......and people are willing to pay it to have the first on their block!

circlew · December 2007

Exactly! You know the story of the Solstice...sold like hot cakes after that Donald Trump Apprentice episode.

Now, they are rotting on the lots!

Regards,
OW

circlew · December 2007

General Motors' Holden manufacturing plant in Adelaide, South Australia is now running at full capacity producing the Pontiac G8. The plant  which produces the Commodore model under several brands, including Holden, Vauxhall, Chevrolet, Pontiac and soon to be Daewoo  is currently producing 620 vehicles a day.

GM expects about half of the vehicles made at the plant will be for export, something Holden has been wanting. "For 60 years, we have been producing world class vehicles primarily for the Australian market. That market has developed into one of the most crowded in the world with almost 50 brands now competing for a share of only 1 million new vehicles annually," GM Holden chairman and managing director Chris Gubbey told Just-Auto.

Gubbey continued: "GM has recognized Holden's expertise and has entrusted the design and engineering of the group's large rear-wheel drive cars to us."

The G8 is expected to hit Pontiac showrooms in the first quarter of 2008.

That about sums it up...limited supply = higher price.

Regards,
OW

mrsyj · December 2007

waiting is definitely a good idea because the early cars will command premium prices. I dont think demand will fall off like the Solstice because this isnt a niche car at all. If the car does well I'm sure they will increase production next year to meet demand but even if they do this car will be low production by Grand Prix standards. The good thing for Pontiac is that they likely wont have to do much advertising, the people who want this type of car will know about it.

qbrozen · December 2007

Does that say limited numbers? I'm not so sure. My math tells me that's over 6000 Commodores for export per month. That's 72,000 per year. I guess the question is, how many of those are for the US? I suppose 30k-40k is limited by GM standards, but those aren't numbers I think should command a premium, personally.

circlew · December 2007

I suppose 30k-40k is limited by GM standards, but those aren't numbers I think should command a premium, personally.

They shouldn't but if dealers follow the GTO strategy, the same fate awaits, IMO. GM does not hold the cache for a limited edition sedan and never will.. all shell games aside. You can jack the price up based on limited supply just so far in a market flooded with other choices in this price range. Like the CTS, it's easy to shop Infinity, Lexus or BMW when the price gets too high.

Regards,
OW

shaig · December 2007

It's real simple. The moment they push themselves into the bottom of the $40k range for an OTD equipped vehicle, which puts them in a different class of market demographic. There they begin to compete against a higher end niche (3 series, etc.). Their only way to succeed with this vehicle beyond the initial sell is to ensure that they are priced below that mark. I think that a low volume play will lead to exactly the same result as the GTO.

circlew · December 2007

Agreed...the G8 will never have the cache to bring it upmarket in comparison to the competition. When you can get a CTS for less than this car, forget about it, game over.

Besides, this car looks a lot like the Saturn Aura. Pretty boring. Where's the creativity?? OTOH, the Camaro and Challenger are VERY interesting.

Regards,
OW

pao · December 2007

well I wouldnt say rotting on the lots...you can find them in dealer inventory now....and it isnt exactly convertible buying weather as we enter winter...the solstice is still out selling the MX-5...which has been the bench mark two seat roadster for the last 15 years....remember production on this car is only about 20K a year....

we waited 7 months for ours....and yes...we did pay MSRP for it.....but in the long run the dealer gave us a great deal on our next car purchase...so really cant complain......

circlew · December 2007

Perhaps I was too critical. The point being the games need not be played. Either you have a winner and you supply like it is one or forget it and start over.

Enjoy your car with best of luck.

Regards,
OW

pao · December 2007

Oh iIconcur..personally I beleive that GM should penalize any dealer that charges that Adjusted Market Value price for a car based on its popularity.....granted they are independent dealers...but the customers only see them as representing GM as a whole....reduce allocations....award good dealerships with more cars....etc....

circlew · December 2007

I believe even Ferrari with a 2+ year wait on the F430 does not adjust the price when ordered...the buyers are willing to pay double due to the irresistible appeal and money-is-not-an-object finances to get one fast. The secondary dealer market gouges these blinded customers and gladly oblige!

Pontiac's potential customers just walk away from such utter nonsense. To think paying MSRP for A U.S. CAR and when you drive it off the lot, you loose thousands in the first couple of miles!!!

Regards,
OW

pao · December 2007

yes..but some people just want to be the first to have the hottest car or electronic device......the CTS is going from MSRP in some regions....I bet the G8 will as well when if finally comes out.....I have even found dealers trying to charge MSRP for the new malibu......and look what happened with the IPhone when it was first released!!

circlew · December 2007

Yep, early adopters...gotta luv 'em!

Regards,
OW

mrsyj · December 2007

the G8 will be hot at first but the hype will die down. Not to say the car wont have staying power. This isnt the GTO for many reasons. a) its cheaper and b) its a practical sedan not a limited capability coupe. With a base price of $27k this car is priced right and will do just fine, especially with the limited production numbers.

circlew · December 2007

Let's see how many go at the door at $27K. I will see at my dealer in a few weeks what to expect regarding orders and let everyone know what feedback I get.

Regards,
OW

jbar2 · December 2007

Just like the base model Dodge Charger or Chrysler 300, the base G8 will find a home with the buyers that go in wanting (wishing for) the top-end models but can't leave empty handed (can't say no). I received a written quote, TT&L included for $32,800 for the fully optioned G8. It's not a bad price if it's what you want.

mrsyj · December 2007

some people may want the better fuel economy of the V6 and feel the V8 is overkill. Not everyone wants a V8, especially if it gets 15mpg in the City which is likely to be the case for the G8 GT. the G8 base car will not be as stripped down as the base Charger/300. Those cars come with weak V6 and 4 speed standard as well as wheel covers. The G8 comes with standard 18s and a 256hp V6/5 speed auto.

2008 Pontiac G8

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