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2008 Pontiac G8
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Comments
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
-mike
ANY wheel drive paired with the better suspension is advanced in comparison but the additional traction provided by the AWD/FWD is an added bonus. Actually, they should regard RWD as a different class when issuing licenses since it takes a higher level of knowledge and experience to operate in inclement whether. So, I agree your point on the general public.
The G8 is a return to RWD performance but looks like it is targeted to enthusiasts rather than the sedan set. That is why you will pay MSRP and the popularity will hold the first year. When you can get an EVO or WRX for the same price, I'd imagine the G8 might be a flash in the pan.
Regards,
OW
maybe. But, then again, what WOULDN'T be an issue? You can't please everyone. And I don't think GM or any manufacturer is prepared to produce a vehicle with FWD, RWD, and AWD options.
I mean, here they FINALLY go back to making a large RWD sedan and somebody has to come along and [non-permissible content removed] about it. UGH!! Go buy a Malibu! Or Lucerne or Lacrosse, or whatever the heck its called!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Something tells me in classic GM style, they shoved an Australian dashboard in a US car for the publicity photos because they couldn't be bothered to get details like this straight for the photos.
As for this platform being offered w/AWD it isn't available, even in Australia, although the last generation was, so i don't expect it to be here either, but the CTS and STS do have AWD options so it's possible that they could put that in down the road.
-mike
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
If not, it will be another GM example of Decison making 101, Class F.
Regards,
OW
The 300 and CTS were meant to be AWD from the beginning. We dont know if that is the case for the Zeta platform. You cant just add AWD overnight if it wasnt part of the product plan. If GM feels that the CTS, STS and 9-3 have the AWD performance car market covered they may not make an AWD G8.
http://www.g8board.com/08G8/
having radio buttons set up for right-hand-drive is not a big deal but for me it's probably a dealbreaker if there isn't an integrated sat radio (on all other GM cars, thankfully XM can be converted to Sirius with "GM1" adapter from sirius).
The lack of integrated XM ( at launch ) does.
I do find this rather odd.
Along with such limited interior colors . . .
- Ray
Waiting for Model Year 2009 . . .
lack of XM is "typical". in 2005 & 06, GTO was the only pontiac without sat radio. i guess it's because the/whatever wiring harness doesn't support it, since apparently there is no satellite radio down under. XM satellite(s) are geosync, last i knew, and point to northern hemisphere. i think they have more than one now, not sure. sirius has at least 3 in really wacky figure-8-like orbits over northern hemisphere, with at least one over continental US at all times.
i like it that I could get cloth seats on a G8 if they offer a workable sat-radio solution. i might prefer the cloth to leather even though the cloth seats lack bunwarmers.
G8 is going to be FANTASTIC on long cruises. WOW is the GTO fantastic for road trips - 2000 I-95 miles so far this week. it's actually getting 25+ mpg on southeast-usa fuel/I95 (premium). in winter up north it barely gets 20 or 21 mpg on either 87 or premium.
back to the G8 - the lack of integrated satellite radio is a really big flaw - and a safety concern for me since fiddling with the FM-transmitter frequencies is both annoying and hazardous. also the music channels are often unlistenable due to static/interference. hey, i would have the FM-hardwired into the antenna if i had time/convenience for that... there is a guy on an esteemed GTO-naro forum who has another hardwire blaupunkt mod but i have neither the time (nor skill) for that either.
I see Pontiac is the prime-sponsor of the NYE festivities here in NYC.
-mike
two mandatory words for future northern G8 owners: snow tires.
Having now seen all 4 of the ‘major’ U.S. monthly magazines,
I’m betting that we will see G8 GT road tests in all 4 of them – next month.
Meaning they have almost certainly been tested – and the results are under embargo. For another 20 to 30 days, or so.
We shall see . . .
- Ray
Waiting for published test results – and an opportunity to drive one . . .
We were so anxious to know what a G8 GT would be like, we flew to Australia with our test gear to drive, test and photograph a production version of the Holden Commodore SS. With the exception front clip, its pretty much a G8 GT.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
As a “Senior member” ( in so many ways ) I do remember that test.
As well as the ‘PickUp’ version.
Sadly, in that test, they chose to test the manual trans. version – and that is of no interest to me. Plus the manual will not be available at launch. And the V8s in Australia do not have AFM.
I am really interested in several specific aspects of how the automatic behaves – such as:
Does it rev match on downshifts?
Is the response to manumatic shift commands better \ quicker than the substantially similar automatic in my 2007 Corvette?
And how does the AFM interact with manumatic up & downshifts?
( Seamlessly, I hope, but we shall see . . . )
Additionally, I expect that some details like suspension damper & bushing tuning are at least somewhat different for to US version.
So – although that preview & others ( MT did much the same ) I am still very curious to see both instrumented tests of the automatic and impressions from journalists whose reports I have read previously.
- Ray
Hoping for the best here . . .
Baloney! Have you ever driven a RWD car in the winter? I lived in St. Louis and the Washington DC area the first 32 years of my life, and owned bothe FWD and RWd cars during that time. Back then a limited slip slip differential and good studded snow tires made a world of difference. Now, cars have fancy stability control, antilock brakes, and snow tires are radically better. Even so, when in college, I could drive my 1970 AMC AMX and the 1979 Trans Am which replaced it around the other stuck cars. Once time 40-61 in St. Louis was completely blocked, so I simply drive off of the shoulder, across the snow covered grass, and onto the service road (luckly, there was no fence). It was downright stupid that so many RWD cars of the past were sold without limited slip differentials, an inexpensive option.
I would have to say the main reason pontiac is going back to RWD is that they want a more powerful engine to be able to compete with the other performance cars on the road. Being a current owner of a 2005 GXP, I know for a fact that the FWD system is pretty much at its limit in trying to handle 303 hp. At over 360 hp in the G8, there is no way a FWD system could be designed to effectively handle that much torque and hp.
I still might consider purchasing a G8, once I can test drive one, and I know they have all the bugs worked out of them. I learned my lesson in buying any new vehicles from GM without waiting at least a year for them to on the market and tested.
I respect both the 3 & 5 series BMWs. A lot. And the “back of the envelope” calculations & comparisons I draw between the G8 GT with 361 HP & 380 TQ lead me to speculate that the acceleration will be quite comparable.
Pontiac literature suggests that they see their primary competition as including the Dodge Charger R/T.
Other ( important ) aspects of a comparison with either the BMWs of the Dodge, such as fit & finish, seat comfort & support, ergonomics, ride, handling, automatic trans. behavior, etc. will not be established until production units are available.
If the reality matches the hype & the reviews I have read of the Holden version, and the Model Year 2009 offers a few items \ options \ interior colors apparently missing at launch, this will likely be my next Sport Sedan.
Since it appears that my budget will not allow a 2009 CTS-v.
[[ sigh ]]
Cheers,
- Ray
Waiting for my test drive – for almost a year now . . .
-mike
Regards,
OW
The G8s real competition will be the charger, TL, CTS, 300, G35 and Maxima if you ask me. Most people who would buy a 3 series wont consider this car. I do think some TL and Maxima owners will give it a look however. Its going to offer similar performance to the G35 but with a lower price and more space. Its hard to see how the car wouldnt do well, especially when they only plan to sell 50k a year.
Will the pontiac dealers treat you in the same manner as the Acura or Infinity dealer? Do they include loaners at pontiac dealers? etc. I think the luxury and service level of an Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, etc. is higher than Pontiac will ever be. Not trying to cut down the G8 but they are the facts. Hopefully it'll sell well cause it looks great on paper.
-mike
will you be able to get oil changes and tire rotations at Acura or Infiniti for less than $150? Probably not. You get better treatment and you pay for it. This idea that all domestic dealerships have bad service is all wrong. Dealers are independent and you have bad ones across the board. I don't care about getting coffee and smiles when my car is in for service if I'm being overcharged for basic service. If you are comparing the cars and not the badge snob appeal the G35 and TL are targets for the G8.
Not that the Aussie-built Holden Monaro wasn't a muscle car. It was. But it looked nothing like a GTO, and I think people resented that and wrote it off as a poseur. The price was high enough that folks who could afford it were probably old enough to fondly remember the original. Besides, muscle cars shouldn't look like the weinermobile.
I think the name G8 doesn't carry any preconceived-notions baggage. It's a better car, has four doors and looks damn good in its own right. It ought to do better than the "GTO."
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Although you may turn out to be correct
( we will not know for months )
I doubt it.
IMHO, the exterior styling of the GTO ( and the fact that many perceived it as somewhere between ‘bland’ and ‘a fake’, since it was so different in styling compared to what they envisioned a “new GTO” should be ) was a big factor in the failure.
Dealers trying to ( initially ) change over MSRP was another factor.
This may happen again, as all I have read suggests that initially the number of G8s available will be somewhat limited. I hope not, but if it does, it may cause a negative impact on the sales. If ( for example ) I cannot test drive a G8 GT equipped as I’d buy or order one ( if that becomes possible ) I will not buy one. Period.
And if my local Pontiac dealers choose to treat potential G8 buyers as many Chevy dealers treat potential Corvette buyers ( regarding a test drive ) this may well turn customer off. And if supply does catch up with demand, they may never return.
But.
If someone is looking for a bargain in a RWD sedan that appears to nearly match a BMW 535 or 550 in acceleration at ** A LOT ** less money,
and if the Dealers are reasonable regarding test drives and actual transaction pricing,
and if ( as I have posted here before ) the reality of production units meets expectations in several other areas, then I predict that the G8 will sell out of the volume I understand is currently projected to be produced by Holden.
We shall see . . .
[[ I am somewhat encouraged by the below quote from Lutz, from quite some time ago regarding “lessons learned” with the GTO. ]]
- Ray
Ready to test drive ( still )
= = =
G8 Lutz: 3 lessons from the GTO flop
Rick Kranz
Automotive News
February 19, 2007 - 12:01 am EST
CHICAGO - The 2008 Pontiac G8 is General Motors' second recent attempt to sell an Australian-assembled car in the United States.
The first, the 2004-06 Pontiac GTO, failed to reach sales expectations and was dropped. The coupe was based on the Holden Monaro.
During an interview this month at the Chicago Auto Show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the automaker learned three lessons from the GTO:
1. The car's styling was not fresh. That body style had been on the market in Australia "for probably close to seven or eight years. So if you are going to bring in a car, it should be at the beginning of its design cycle, not at the end."
2. "We overpriced it."
3. The wrong dealers were targeted. Initial GTO distribution was based on historic Pontiac sales, which were heavily in the Midwest. But Midwest buyers did not want a rear-drive car. Instead, California should have been targeted at the beginning. "We will not make that mistake this time."
I think that targeting the Charger and Tarus and even the Maxima are great targets to go for as that's the clientel that will buy the G8. The BMW, Acura, MB, and Infinitiy buyers are different class of people and really aren't the Pontiac demographic.
-mike
Here is a fact that lends me to believe the G8 will turn off a lot of buyers...my local dealer is allocated one in March and the future they have no idea how many they will get. That tells me there will not be enough around (in the 50 states) to test drive one as you would order one.
Strike one.
Regards,
OW
I have seriously considered the 335. Still am, in fact. And I am just as seriously considering the G8 GT. For me, the size of the back seat is much less a concern than the fact that there is a back seat – and doors for access.
With 361 \ 380 HP \ TQ ( and even with a curb weight of 350 more pounds ) I expect that the G8 GT will be a bit quicker than the G35, at 306 & 268 HP \ TQ.
The most recent G35 Sedan test I have seen was in a recent R&T:
0 – 60 was 5.3.
Quarter mile in 13.8 @ 102.9
These acceleration numbers ( seems fairly representative ) are helped by the somewhat aggressive gearing in the G35 – final drive = 3.69:1.
And RPM at 60 = 2550 with the five speed automatic.
[[ The G8 will likely turn closer to 1600 or 1650 RPM at 60.
For anyone who might care. As I do. ]]
And with the G8 V8’s Torque, I expect that it will ( perhaps just as important ) also ‘feel’ quicker than the G35, in typical street driving. Much more like an Infiniti M45 than a G35.
But time will tell . . .
- Ray
Available for “closed course. SEMI-professional driver” duty . . .
And ( um ) over 190....
Is your 335 a coupe or sedan?
True.
In my example of the Corvette & test drives, there are many dealers that treat the Corvette as anything but a Chevy.
Yet there is one less than an hour from where I live that allowed me 2 test drives. I expect that some Pontiac Dealers will attempt to take advantage of the limited initial supply \ allocation.
The ‘fact’ that your dealer has one in March and an unknown stream arriving beyond that does not mean that every Dealer has exactly the same situation. Nor does that fact mean that those Dealers with this situation will not allow test drives. They may not, but ( again ) no one knows, yet.
And in the case of the G8, I only need to test drive a GT \ V8 with automatic ( all initial build will be automatics ), Sport Package, Premium Package and a sunroof. These are all \ the only options \ packages available. And my guess is that if a Dealer has more than a couple, they will have one equipped like that.
If a specific Dealer does not allow me a comprehensive test drive, I will not buy – from THAT dealer.
I drove 200 miles ( round trip ) last time I bought a Pontiac – and that Dealer is where I will likely buy a G8, should I decide to purchase one.
I am not yet ready to call: Strike One.
I am in no particular hurry to order or purchase.
So, if there are initially few available, but the boats from Australia continue to arrive with additional inventory - and supply does catch up with demand, this will not particularly bother me. I will still be interested.
Another “if”.
But, by my count: Strike 0.
All my other “ifs” remain as unknown as well.
- Ray
Anticipating this car, but not really impatient . . .
http://i17.tinypic.com/6l8inwo.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/71mmvj9.jpg
Judging from the Enclave situation at my local dealer, I would assume customers will have a hard time getting a drive scheduled during the first year. I liken it to trying to test drive a 300C SRT during year 1...you need to find a dealer that has one. The Enclave is HOT and I assume the G8 will also be hot...until your wallet can't stand the heat!
Impatience will no doubt lead to lower sales volume than anticipated at GM.
It's always better to wait until YR2 anyway...I'll no doubt check it out if available but will not go out of the way to get one of the first to land in the US. There are just too many other choices out there.
Regards,
OW
No offense intended...
Actually though this isn't the first year production, as the car has been available for at least 1 year in Australia before shipping over here.
-mike