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2007 Jeep Wrangler
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Comments
I still think a steering stabilizer is a bandaid and that there is more to the problem than this. A properly set up steering really doesn't need a stabilizer.
I personally think Jeep is trying to cover a deeper issue.
-Paul
1. they fail to mention how terrible the tow capacity is on a Porsche 911.
2. The dismal fuel economy of a Peterbuilt.
3. How cramped a Lotus is for anybody over 5' tall.
4. The atrocious cargo capacity of a Miata.
Some things are obvious. Why is it that this Jeep was torn apart for things it was never designed to be good at? I drive a Jeep and could never be happier every single minute in my bumpy, noisy, poor handling Wrangler. When the top and doors are off, NOT A SINGLE THING IN THE WORLD COMPARES.
Now tell me, why don't you guys consider it an SUV again?
I read that article you mentioned about a month after I baught my Rubicon. I almost laughed out loud after reading it. It just goes to show how little experience they have when it comes to reviewing anything other than toasters and dishwashers. Im so happy I wasn't like you and made my vehicle buying decision based on what CR wrote. I'm having a great time with my Jeep and plan to keep it at the end of my term.
What other vehicle can, in stock form, pass level 2 trails with ease? Only 1.
Thank the automotive gods that Jeep didn't make just another SUV, cause that's what the world needs (thankyou thankou thankyou!). Xterra? Please. It's not even in the . . . ahh who cares, not worth the words. The FJ, hmm, not bad, nice engine, cool looks, but IFS? Not good. Gimme 2 solid axles, a bumpy ride, the wind in my hair and a unshakable smile. You clearly don't get it.
Handling and Performance poor? Could be picked up a notch but weaker off roader's such as FJ and others will always be better. I opt towards off-road prowess regardless of how much time i spend on road.
How about you bash a miata for its poor off-road ability but excellent on road feel. Frankly, I'll keep my '08 Wrangler 2 door. There is room for improvement on road but it still kicks any ugly FJ or other soft roaders [non-permissible content removed].
I agree. How could you trust them? They even recommend Bose speakers. I'm at the point where I thoroughly reconsider my opinion if CR likes something that I like...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Jeep has not yet figured out how to build a "soft roader" and while this Unlimited idea is a great objective, it misses on the "Trail Rated" side of things (it doesn't get along the Rubicon very well at all) and it's not a fun way to get to the trail head to start the journey.
I look forward to Jeep putting the best of all there vehicles together to bring the Unlimited to a point where it deserves the reputation of the brand.
Like you, I also like the bumpy ride, the way it sits higher than all other vehicles, it;s minimalistic interior made for simplicity and reduced wear and tear. The seats are very comfortable, the best I have sat in of any truck/4X4. And the unlimited powertrain warranty can't be beat. Ask GM and Toyota if they will guarantee their product this long.
Plus, I like the rugged looks of the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I get tons of compliments on how cool mine looks (Jeep Green Sahara Unlimited 4X4, Khaki interior/top and MyGig, it's loaded). I plan on getting American Racing Mojave wheels in Black teflon to give it a more military look.
If someone says it is not as refined as Brand X, etc, they need to understand that it was never made to be a luxury SUV. I always use the analogy that the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is the swiss army knife of vehicles. While it can do many things well (and almost anything), it will never be all things (a luxury car, give the best ride, be a Mercedes, etc). I am accepting of it being built for ruggedness and abuse while sacrificing the luxury of leather, smooth ride, etc. In AZ, you need a rugged vehicle. Roads are not that great, lots of dirt roads, rocks, dust, etc. It takes the abuse and keeps going.
If you want a luxury jeep that drives better, get a Jeep Grand Cherokee or Range Rover, but for the money, you can't beat this vehicle. I am keeping mine forever!!!
There are literally dozens of people hauling SUVs out there that pamper you at 85 mph on the fwy (got one - a Saturn Outlook) but the Wrangler is not one of them. If you're looking for comfort, steer clear, this is not your ride (though it's easily the most comfortable, refined Wrangler yet, by a good margin). The Wrangler was and is the one and only true get-you-anywhere vehicle made and Jeep is selling every one of them at full pop and trying to figure out how to add a third shift to crank these hits out.
If you want to cut it down for being rough or noisy or unrefined, you'd be right and are looking at/bought the wrong vehicle. Too bad. On the other hand, the Jeep engineer's did the miraculous. They took the great TJ (previous generation) and made it better in every empirical way including off road specifications and preformance. Furthermore, they did the near impossible by ensuring that the Wrangler soul was not lost in the process. I had a rough, hot, bumpy, loud, and very capable YJ. My new JK is truly a remarkable improvement.
When the road gets slippery, rocky and ugly, you'll think of this post and the Wrangler you should have been in.
How easy is the soft top to take off and put back on? Seattle weather here is getting nice so it is going to have to come down soon!
Also, even though the 7 speaker sound system is pretty good, does anybody know if changing the tweets on the dash and the other speakers is fairly easy? Might be something down the road but I want the stock look and keep the current amp/head unit.
This forum was a big help and I will keep my eye open for some of the items mentioned to watch out for.
Oh ya, paid $13,850 for it (It was a trade in from a Toyota dealer I work at so I got a great price on it)
I have driven through snow fall that has shut cities down in my Rubicon Unlimited, while SUVs timidly tried to drive in my path, like a toddler touches the bath water timidly with his/her toe. Hell, with a JEEP, you can faithfully just jump right in. Oh, and if you want to go topless, hey another thing an SUV can't touch.
Remember this...a Hummer H3 has a mid-size trailblazer wheel base. Essentially they took a midsize want-a-be SUV, and put a more mannly and more JEEP-like mask to sell it.
Then, you have the Toyota FJ, which doesn't come close to the retro FJ's that came close to competing with the JEEP. The FJ has a small/mid-size Landcruiser 120 Series Prado, or Lexis GS (US model), which is similiar to the 4-Runner wheelbase. So, they took a want-to be SUV, and put what they thought was more mannly and more JEEP-like mask to sell it.
Hell, a mask is a mask...a PT Cruiser is a Neon with a bolder face.
One vehicle that come close to a JEEP, and what a JEEP is built for, would be the Landrover, which in 1948 was first built, oh, using a JEEP wheelbase. Wow, imagine that. But, the Landrover of today, is maybe what an SUV is...but not a JEEP. Older Landrovers could come close to competing.
Then you have the Mercedes G models. But for the money yo u pay for even a base model, if it comes in one, you could outfit one hell of a JEEP, that would be untouchable.
Be smart when you buy. Know the product before you sink hard eraned money into it. Remember, a JEEP is not an SUV, and an SUV is not a JEEP.
I love my 2007 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. As said, I have driven it about 47,000 miles in just over two years, as I drive it for work. I get all kinds of compliments, and questions. If you love sitting in a well heated or cooled leather-clad lobby, then buy a high-end SUV, Escalade, Landrover with all the animities. A JEEP has its purposes, and people who purchase a JEEP have there purposes.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
I agree. The Defender 90 is probably the most similar in terms of both size and spec out there.
Both have evolved in a similar manner, with a transition to coils after many years on leaf springs, and the options of large and small gas engines but with the Land Rover having also had the option of a diesel for many years.
The Defender is only expensive here because of its rarity. In the UK they're as common and comparably priced to the way Wranglers are here.
Now I see that many others are having this problem. I am so angry that I was taken advantage of by this dealer that I will be up there in the morning and letting them know that they should be fixing this for free.
I would really like to know if any others have contacted Jeep itself and if they were more help than the dealerships, for I don't see the dealer helping me to fix this and that I might need to go to the source. PLEASE CONTACT ME at surgigirl@comcast.net if you can help me.
Thanks
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
-Paul
NOTE### the steering stabilizer should be the last thing you replace not the first as it will more than likely cover up the real issue and cause more problems to your vehicle or safety when it returns again
DIAGNOSIS LIST
Assuming your tire psi is 28-30, your tires/wheels have been balanced and rotated to make sure the wobble doesn't move with the rotation, here would be my order:
1. Remove the steering stabilizer.
2. Have someone turn the engine on and turn slowly from full lock to full lock while I visually, manually (with my hands on the components), and auditorily inspect for any play in the tie rod ends, drag link ends, sector shaft, trackbar ends/bolts/brackets, and trackbar welds.
3. Then, do the same thing but with short, sharp, quick back and forth turns of the steering wheel instead of the slow, lock to lock approach.
4. Then, I would remove the front trackbar to inspect the bolt holes for ovaling and inspect the trackbar bushings for separation or cracking with a long screw driver through the bolt sleeve and the trackbar in a vise to leverage against the bushing in all directions. If all is good, I would reinstall the trackbar with the tires on the ground at ride height to 125 lbs.
5. Then, I would inspect the drag link end joints by using a large channel lock wrench that gave me enough leverage to check for up and down play in the drag link ends. There should not be any meaningful up and down play. If there is, the joints should be replaced or a new drag link with heavy duty joints should be installed. After, I would check the torque of the drag link ends. There should be no meaningful up and down, no side to side, and only rotational movement in the drag link ends.
6. Then, I would inspect the tie rod ends with the channel lock wrench for up and down movement. There should be no meaningful up and down play. There should only be rotational movement in the joint end.
7. Then, I would put the front axle on jack stands and check the front ball joints by using a long pry bar as a lever under the front tires to lift them up to inspect for up and down play in the lower ball joints. There shouldn't be more than maybe 1-2 mm.
8. Then, I would use the prybar/lever against the frame and the top of the tire to inspect for lateral movement of the top ball joints. There shouldn't be any.
9. Then, I would remove the front tires/wheels and remove the front tie rod--one knuckle at a time. Then with a large wrench or vice grips, I would inspect the end for side to side play. Then I would reinstall the end and torque to spec and repeat on the other side.
10. Then, I would remove the brake calipers and brake disks to inspect the unitbearings for play.
11. Then, I would reinstall the discs, brake calipers, and tires/wheels and set the axle back on the ground.
12. Then, I would support but not lift the front axle with a floor jack and loosen the front lower control arm bolts. One at a time, I would drop the lower control arms to inspect the bolt holes and bushings (similar to with the trackbar), reinstall without torquing, and do the next one. Afterwards, remove the floor jack so the suspension is at ride height, vigorously rock the vehicle side to side and front and back, then torque to spec.
13. Next, I would inspect the sector shaft that comes out of the steering box for cracking or twisting.
14. Then, I would take a test drive without the steering stablizer to feel for any wobbles.
15. Finally, I would reinstall the steering stablizer or spring $40 for a heavy duty steering stablizer.
If this front end inspection does not diagnose and/or solve it, then I would move to an alignment.
1. I would use adjustable lower front control arms to set my caster spec between 4 and 5 degrees--with a cross caster that has less on the driver side than the passenger side. I would personally not do more or less, with a target around 4.5-4.7 degrees caster.
2. If my camber is out of spec, but it is not due to failed ball joints, I would install offset ball joints to get my camber in spec.
3. I would set my toe-in to spec on the machine--which is about a 1/8" toe-in.
4. If my front to rear alignment is off, I would install rear lower adjustable control arms to fix this.
A bubble balance does not work for rims and tires on newer vehicles. They have to be balanced with the tire on a traction surface. Goodyear calls in "road force" balancing. It is excellent smooth as glass and prevents the hyperbole "death wobble".
The problem is, and any tire shop or dealership out to know, that if tires are not balanced properly from the start they get flat spots and get out of round and balancing of any kind won't help.
This kind of balancing was done routinely before bubble balance came into vogue. It requires more skill and it is a little more hazardous for the technician. It is a matter of feel.
Most dealerships for all brands don't take the time to know what to do and to do it right from the get go. It is certainly not limited to Jeep.
I suspect that very few steering dampers have needed to be replaced.
Write Caveat emptor on the front of the owner's manual.
That's good to hear.
A bubble balance does not work for rims and tires on newer vehicles. They have to be balanced with the tire on a traction surface. Goodyear calls in "road force" balancing. It is excellent smooth as glass and prevents the hyperbole "death wobble".
A bubble balancer works on modern rims and tires as well as it did 70 or 80 years ago when it was the only type of balancer available. It hasn't recently come into vogue, in fact it was the only means of balancing originally
However, a rim/tire combination can only be balanced statically in that way, which is why the rotating balancer commonly see in tire shops was developed.
The rotating balancer dynamically balances the wheel resulting in much improved rotational stability.
The next and latest development to the balancer is the Hunter GSP9700 Roadforce machine.
This has nothing to do with Goodyear and is a trademark registered to Hunter.
This machine performs many functions including balancing the wheel under load as though it was being driven on the road.
It also measures any side to side runout of the tread, and can independently measure the imbalance of the rim and the tire, allowing the the tire to be positioned at the best possible location on the rim so that little or no weight will be needed to complete the balance.
You can read all about it and find one near you here: Hunter Roadforce
(I have no connection with Hunter.)
Yes, it's the ultimate in wheel balancing, but it's incorrect to say it's a requirement for all modern wheels and tires. There are many millions of vehicles running very smoothly and getting full tire life with tires balanced on a conventional rotational balancer.
I suspect that very few steering dampers have needed to be replaced.
I think Jeep would disagree, which is why they came out with a modified damper.
The occasional uncontrollable progressive cyclic oscillation of the front wheels ('death wobble') in JKs is a product of suspension design, not wheel balance, although an imbalance can trigger the process.
In TJs it's usually worn steering and suspension components (often coupled with larger tires and a suspension lift) that cause the problem.
A heavier duty damper will mask the issue, which is Jeep's answer for the JK issue.
However, on a TJ it makes much more sense to replace the worn parts first.
Finally, in regard to hyperbole; while I haven't heard of a fatal accident being caused by 'death wobble' I think the term is quite appropriate as the driver usually feel like they're going to die.
The steering wheel is often wrenched from the hands, the vehicle often changes lanes, sometimes ending up on the median or at the side of the road, and the only control the driver has is over the brakes.
It definitely comes under the heading of 'a bad day at the office'!
"Where God, Family and YOU come first" is our slogan. In our opinion, those things are important, and that's what we want to build our business on.
Did anyone mention God, family or "country?" Or try to "stuff religion, country and family into the deal?"
888-922-7329 and spoke with rep. " Adam".. i told him about my issue with
the wobble and he is calling my dealership to try to cover the repair expenses... at the very least if i am killed in an accident due to the " death wobble"... i have a case number verifying that the problem was reported to Chrysler Jeep... a start.. will let you know how it goes..
this should be a recall issue !!
Good Luck....
I am a recent owner of a 2007 Jeep Sahara with 61,000 miles. Just recently, I am feeling a knocking feeling in the steering. When I slow down I can almost hear the knocking sound coming from the wheel. I took it to the dealer and they said what I am experiencing is normal for an off road vehicle. There needs to be play in the wheel. Something just doesn't feel right...Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Steve
tell your dealership to type in jeep/ death
wobble and many many sites describing
the problem are on the Internet
I would suggest you call the crysler number above
-- your steering wheel is NoT supposed to
shake so badly you can' t hold on
tell the dealership you want the
damper changed check your trac bar and
heck that the screws are not wallowed
they did give me dealer price. Approx
300..said I could send in for about 25%
reimbursement or wait to see if there is a recall
and get full refund. thats why
its good to have a case number docume ti ng
the problem. someone is going to be hurt
very badly...
They don't take direct calls.
So I called 800-992-1997 and talked to someone in service. Told them I had the death wobble and got a ticket number and a phone call from the dealer to bring it it for repair....
(2008 4dr Sahara Jeep Wrangler - another victim of the DEATH WOBBLE!! or TSB 19-003-06 as it was formally called! for '97-'06 models)