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I guess on my situation the tires were defective. I'm amazed that at mo time did the dealers suggest this. The very most I would have insisted on was that they give a me a super discounted price on new tires or split the cost with me. I went throfuh so much grief with them over this I finally gave ip and just drove the car with the drift (the front tires wore because I didn't rotate them as I didn't want to risk alterring it once the dealer got it pulling slightly less last year). Anyhow I guess it is possible for the tires to have been bad from the get go.
I just went to a tire shop and had them remove the tires from the rims, flip 'em over, remount and balance. So now the worn edges are on the outside. Cost $109. The tire tech was skeptical, but hey, I'm paying...
I haven't had her up to highway speed yet but the handling feels OK and the tires are much quieter at 30mph. I got 16K miles out of one set of edges and if I can get another 16K I'll be satisfied.
It's definitely not a tire issue, but an alignment issue.
What I need to know is, why is the rear going out of alignment so easily after only 6000k.
The first time my rear alignment was out (toe in) it chewed my Bridgestone serenity's with only 30,000k down to slick. After realignment at 6000 kms it's happening again with mainly highway driving. The outside tread is wearing faster.
Any ideas what's causing the alignment to go out? Dealership has inspected the rear suspension and sees no indicators.
My dealer was adding a part to the wheels that should have corrected the problem when I decided to buy the new car. Again, I'll have to go into my files to find out exactly what the part was.
They didn't do it for free though; it cost $180 for the part and the alignment. Unless everyone reports their problem to Toyota, they won't accept (at the dealer) that this isn't your fault.
Sally
How much snow?
How hilly the terrain?
Maybe you just need snow tires.
Happy holidays.
Had original tires rotated as suggested and ended up replacing them @30k. Was told by Dealer the original "Continental" tires only last to about 30k. So we bought the Yokohama you mentioned. They have been on for 3-4 years and already need replacing. We have had a front end alignment per warranty for the tires purchased at Plaza tire (Forever Tire program - which I'm assuming they will not honor). This is a Toyota issue that I want to know if they have corrected. Dealers do not know anything about this (including service department) locally. We are in the market for a new one - other than the tire wear issue - we love our Matrix. Sad that Toyota won't fix this issue with the $180 part someone mentioned for newer models - unless they have fixed it. Anyone know?
Ours have been on the car (AWD) for just 5 months and about 5,000 miles. So far we have no complaints, but it's still early.
I had alignment checked at an indy shop (I knew not to try Toyota and their stonewalling) and it was OK.
My solution was to have the tires flipped over on their rims before the inside edges got too worn.
That's evened out the wear and they also roll quieter, for now at least.
The most important thing you all have to do is to register your complaint with Toyota. You can do this by phone. Check the website for phone numbers.
I'm convinced that not enough Matrix owners know about Edmunds or have bothered to register their complaint with Toyota.
There's probably some way to find my old postings--with more specifice details on the
"fix" on this site, but I haven't had time to go back this evening. I know I was back--probably before the 100th post. Looks like the entire discussion has come full circle.
Sally
The excessive wear on my tires is only at the extreme edge, only the last band of tread. If it were a camber problem I think it would be a gradual transition from one side to the other.
An independent shop showed alignment is well within spec.
I had a co-worker with a Matrix that came with Goodyear tires and had even tread wear.
When I had my tires flipped over on the rims (see my previous posts) an SUV was also in the shop getting its Continental tires replaced because of...you guessed it...excessive wear on the edges.
I'm not denying that some Matrixes have bad alignment, but I've yet to see anyone complain of edge wear and noise with tires other than Continental. Ironically I use Continental tires on my bicycle (I commute to work every day on) because they are far better than any other brand I've tried.
The alignment specs for the Matrix include a rear camber of 1.45° ±0.50°. My experience is that anytime the camber is specified over 1°, then the vehicle is likely to have tire wear issues.
But what triggers this wear is the toe. The rear toe is specified as 0° ±0.20° (per side). My experience is that anything over 0.06° (again per side) leads to wear issues.
This means that not all Matrix owners are going to experience this wear - and it's going to depend on how far off the nominal value the vehicle is.
This also means that vehicle can experience tire wear issues even if the alignment is "IN SPEC",
And lastly, it also means the tires are not the source of the problem - which would explain why folks have seen the wear on more than just the original tires.
But you should be aware that most alignment techs aren't savvy enough to recognize the issues about tolerance. They are usually a "set and forget" type. This would be especially true at a car dealership - where they probably have explicit instructions to set the alignment at the factory values. Most of the time this is OK, and it makes sense in the context of trying to do maintain what the alignment setting are when the vehicle leaves the shop. It just makes sense that they ALL be set according to the factory setting, so if the vehicle comes back with an alignment issue, it would be clear that the vehicle encountered an object that changed the settings.
So my advice would be to take the vehicle to an alignment shop NOT affiliated with a dealership and have them set the camber below 1°, and the toe to the nominal value.
However, all the camber and toe #s on my Matrix meet your criteria, and the edge wear only happens on the front tires.
You should also be aware that tire wear is very complex and even vehicles with the alignment settings outside the settings I stated MAY get even wear. It's kind of a "tendency" sort of thing.
But in your case, there are some questions that your earlier posts don't answer:
Were the front tires EVER on the rear? If so, then it's quite possible that the wear occurred on the rear - where there is a lot of camber - and wasn't noticed. Then when those rear tires were rotated to the front, the front positions added wear on top of the wear that was already there, making it appear that the wear occurred on the front.
Plus, it's also possible to get the type of wear you describe from "spirited" driving - and this would include sharp turns when pulling into a parking spot.
I did a quick look at the alignment specs for the front of the matrix and I see 2 things:
1) The front camber spec + the tolerance does have a range from +0.18° to -1.32° - so it's possible for the front to be "in Spec" but over -1°.
2) The front caster spec is a bit on the high side - 2.78° ± 0.75°. Caster can be considered "Camber gain on turning", and that would add camber during cornering situations. So if you do a lot of turns compared to how much you drive straight ahead - in other words, short trips - then you could also experience wear on only one side.
When I got the car it had 8100 miles. The rear tires looked nearly new and the fronts had some wear on the inside edge. I had the Toyota dealer rotate them before I drove it away.
For the next 7000 miles I watched as the inside edges wore away on the front tires. At that point I had the tires flipped on the rims.
I drive pretty gently most of the time. Stop and go city driving.
Can't say I am happy to see what is happening with Toyota With all the recall crap but part of me is. I remember back to when I was incredibly frustrated with this...the thought of having committed myself to $20K+ for a car that wouldn't even drive straight...and to have multiple dealers tell me there was nothing more they could do ad it was within spec, it was the road, etc. (essentially, "hey, you're supposed to keep you hands on the wheel and your eyes in the road), it does in hindsight bring mr a little satisfaction. Afterall, in the last decade, before buying toyotas we've owned five new fords and one used ford and not one ever had as much trouble finding straight ahead as both our toyotas. (yeah, same issue with a corolla though itcwas remedied with one alignment)
An overall hassle and it took alot of effort for them to admit the alignment was the issue, not the tire.
If i remember correctly, to maintain the suspension geometry, the camber bolt need to go in the lower hole. 30,000 miles is pretty good wear for oem tires. Mine were GONE at 14,000. The new tires on ours have lasted more than 40k. I am happy with the Magna Cam bolts and alignment. John
If your mechanic friend doesn't think it's alignment, what did he think it was? I'm sorry to say, but I think he is totally wrong. Most irregular tire wear issues can be traced to alignment problems of some sort - and in this case, it is clearly the camber. As peter reported, he seems to have solved the problem by fixing the camber.
You've highlighted all the things you think are NOT the problem, but you are still fishing for the solution. The problem is the alignment SPEC. The spec issued by Toyota calls for camber anywhere between +0.2° to -1.3°. It's the large negative number that is the problem.
As proof I offer 2 posts: Rocky's Message #70 and Tamedskr's Message # 185.
They seem to be the only ones who had the problem and fixed it - and they both did it by adjusting the camber.
BTW, I have documented other vehicles that seem to have a similar problem - and guess what? Camber!
As you have pointed out, it's Toyota's problem and it's their alignment specs!
Seriously, if Toyota, Ford, Honda, GM or whomever has to admit to a problem they will all play dumb and talk the party line. Seriously, I am absolutely positive Toyota or any other car, truck or motorcycle maker will do anything to save their own skin. Seriously, I am sure Toyota will spend billions to make the public think they are very concerned about safety. Even though the problem might just cost millions to fix. A hard fix is out of the question. A couple million tons of BS poured on top of the problem is how this is fixed. Just think if no one would speak up for the victims of the runaway cars. If there were no ambulance chasing lawyers they would just shove the problem down our throats forever with their fingers crossed behind their backs. I will never buy another Toyota.
I purchased a pretty expensive set of Sumitomo tires to replace the originals. In the past couple of years, I have rotated the tires on every oil change at about three thousand miles each. Every time, when the rear tires come forward, they're out of balance. I have them balanced of course, but this tells me that wear is taking place.
Seems most posters complain about front tire wear, but mine seems to happen when they're on the rear.
I took my car into the dealer when the thumping noise began around 31K. They confirmed it was the tires. To their credit, they suggested the tire store down the street, as the prices were better.
Every rotation of the new tire set each oil change results in vibration through the steering wheel. This means of course means the tires are wearing unevenly. The local tire shop in our new home town says this is abnormal. The dealer I bought the car from has never heard of this complaint. He suggested that I call Toyota, and the rep had also never heard of my problem. I will add that the Toyota company rep insisted on calling my car a Corolla. Yea, I know it's based on the corolla platform, but that was just annoying. He also had the mind bending habit of saying "uh huh" before I could finish a sentence. He seemed to read a canned message, ending with a suggestion was to take it to the dealer.
The only new car I've every owned. Not sure I'd buy another one.