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Luxury Lounge

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Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    image

    If actually built... the Tesla Model S Sedan will be powered by a lithium-ion battery pack that will give it a range of 240 miles and a 0 to 60 mph time of less than 6 seconds. Pricing is expected to come in at $60,000.

    TM
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    All of the cars that you mentioned are great - but in their own way. Most people here have owned a variety of them and we all have our favorites. If you define Luxury as hi-tech features and smooth ride then the LS is probably your best bet. Badge respect - S550. Want to feel young and drive a bit aggressive - 750. Like understated looks and great design - A8.

    I actually think that the Passat CC is a bargin, beautiful styling, german ride, Audi like interior for less than the ES350.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Where does the flux capacitor go? Mercedes is going '80s, but this just takes it to another level. Those temperature displays on the console(!?) have to be completely unreadable when you're actually driving the car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I actually think that the Passat CC is a bargin, beautiful styling, german ride, Audi like interior for less than the ES350.

    How is a car that is more expensive, less practical, and less comfortable than the Passat a bargain? I also wouldn't describe the interior as "Audi like". It's the same as the standard Passat's interior. Definitely in the "VW like" category. It looks a bit glitzier, but actual materials quality is down compared to the old Passat.

    I've found that I no longer have much interest in the full-size lux class. After spending time behind the wheel of a Jag XF SC or S6, none of them seem particularly engaging to drive, with perhaps the single exception of the Maserati QP. The full-size class also takes by far the biggest resale hit.

    Currently, I like the A6 3.0T and the M35 w/ the new 7-speed. The next generation 5 could be interesting, but I don't like BMW's latest styling direction. The interiors are much improved over the Bangle era, but the 7 and Z4 seem bland and forgettable looking overall, with stupidly huge kidney grilles.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    "Per the readout on the GL dashboard I averaged 60 MPH (including 14 miles of off highway) and 19.5MPG. If I was in the LS I'd have been around 27-28MPG. So not only are there so many fewer drivers out there but the MPG is greatly improved as a result. "

    It is definitely a sign of the times. It is great to reap the rewards of less less traffic in the short term, but I sure hope we survive this historic collapse of the economic system. Do you have any new feelings about the future economy?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I always look back to trying to take a Highlander hybrid and remember that the $72K GL is only costing me $175 more each month than the $48K Highlander hybrid. In times like this luxury can become a great value.

    That is one heck of a great deal. Definitely great for you but not for MB. MB is shooting themselves in their own foot with these kind of deals. Who will want to pay full price for any MB if this continues?

    Such kind of discounting can backfire for any luxury brand whether its cars or clothing:

    In terms of clothing:

    When Saks Fifth Avenue slashed prices by 70% on designer clothes before the holiday season even began, shoppers stampeded. "It was like the running of the bulls," says Kathryn Finney, who says she was knocked to the floor in New York's flagship store by someone lunging for a pair of $535 Manolo Blahnik shoes going for $160.

    Perhaps the biggest consequence is that customers are now questioning the entire premise of luxury goods: Why pay top dollar today if big markdowns could be coming tomorrow?

    "Shopping has changed as an experience for me" because of all the discounting, says Roz Silbershatz of New York. Over the holidays she bought, among other things, a $1,000 Badgley Mischka gown for $290.

    Previously, the 29-year-old communications executive had paid full price for items including a $2,500 Jimmy Choo handbag. "I am so shocked that I ever did pay full price," she says. "I could never do that again."

    Wall Street Journal
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The Honda CR-V is the most sensible vehicle in its segment. The two AWD vehicles that I seriously considered buying is the:

    Honda CR-V
    Hybrid Highlander
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Regarding lifestyle I couldn't agree with you more

    The Ford Fusion is definitely a fantastic car. Beats the Toyota Camry hyrbid. Better mileage and cargo space is fantastic for a hyrbid sedan. The engineers at Ford have proved themselves with this car.

    Would I get one? A Prius has similar interior dimensions with superior legroom. The Prius has far more cargo space and far better mileage. Though the Fusion's one advantage is that it does not look like a qwerky wedge like the Prius.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    This month my wife and I are going to test drive the 2010 Lexus RX350 just to get the feeling of what the RX450h will be like. Never drove a RX before so it will be a new experience.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    In other words, entropy is currently huge in our societies!

    Jose,

    entropy is a great term to describel what is going on with our world. This is unprecedented since not a single country seems to be spared. Call it the globalization of entropy.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Never drove a RX before so it will be a new experience.

    Oh, it's an experience alright. Bring coffee, you don't want to fall asleep behind the wheel :P
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The Honda CR-V is the most sensible vehicle in its segment.

    Totally agree. And... if it were a hybrid, it would be even better. But, Ford gets the prize for that one. And, I can tell you first-hand that the Escape Limited Hybrid is a surprising vehicle. In fact, Dewey, when you are all done checking out that nice Lexus RX hybrid... just for fun, go to your local Ford dealership and check out an Escape Limited Hybrid. Make sure it is a "Limited" model that you check out, otherwise don't even bother... and make sure that it has NAV and Microsoft "Sync". Microsoft Sync with NAV is actually one of the more amazing integrated all-in-one technology systems out there.

    It will all be well worth the experience for you anyway, especially since you are going to get a hybrid. After you check it out, please tell me what you discover. I'd love to learn your impressions of the vehicle, but only after you honestly check out a 'Limited" model configured with Microsoft Sync and NAV as I mentioned.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Between the Fusion Hybrid and the Prius, I'd probably go with the Prius as well, but I'd have to drive them both to be sure... that's because the reviewers have made specific mention of the excellent driving dynamics of the Fusion Hybrid, and it's smooth and quiet nature due to special construction and even special glass, IIRC.

    But, as great as it is... it's boring.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I think I'm about to be sick...
    image
    image
    After seeing this interior, I'm feeling even sicker... :sick:

    TM
  • early74bearly74b Member Posts: 34
    The RX series (especially the hybrid) may be something to consider, I've riden in the first series in both back and front and the ride was just OK, not really all that much better (to me anyway) than my current commuter (Mazda3 5-door GT) - I'm assuming the newer series is better from latest reviews. I've gone from tall SUV's (mid-80's Isuzu Trooper II (2 of them) to Dodge Grand Caravan's (two as well) for the kids when they were younger as well as a decent sport sedan ('93 Taurus SHO - 3.2 w/auto) and a string a smaller cars (Scirocco, Fox, New Beetle) and sports cars (Miata's - 2, restored a '74 Corvette roadster and '74 MGB - last of the chrome bumpers) so have come to realize that most vehicles are good for different reasons (many more cars to list but not really pertinent to today's market). The higher ride height over traffic is good with the SUV/Minivan's along with the extra storage for when you need it but the bulkiness, etc. is a trade-off. The small cars get better mileage, typically are more nimble but try to pick up anything and its a challenge (that's why my Mazda3 is the hatch -- may not be as acceptable in the U.S. but Europe has known this for years) and the ride quality suffers with the shorter wheel base, etc. (my wife's smart is great for her short commute but terrible on anything longer). I think that's why we have this new crossover category -- in any case, I'm going to the Chicago Auto Show this weekend so it will give me a good chance at seeing the latest as well as few concepts that may be on the horizon -- would like to see more feedback on the original 'luxury' ride question but I guess that just too subjective. I've read some of the road tests on Edmunds and the notation on ride harness or smoothness without excessive float is I guess is what I'll be looking for -- this could be a harder decision than I thought!
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Great post and probably catches that end of the market perfectly. The LS and S are really all I'm interested in because they provide the luxury I seek. The 750 and A8 have the right attributes for the seeker of greater sport and provide plenty of luxury as well. But for me lux at that level is a lot more about a great ride than sportier handling that sacrifices the ride somewhat. To each his own and I can easily understand those who seek out the sportier ride.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    OW - are you in NJ? I'm in Colts Neck but my business is in Tarrytown and and I make the trip 2X a week.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Charlie,

    Very hard to grasp. I wish Obama's actions would have provided greater details. The lack of details shows a lot of infighting and IMO a lack of decisiveness, hence such a bad reaction. On top of that Geithner had to fight like hell to present the little that he did - another bad sign.

    We went from far too much leverage to far too little and it can't stay this low or they'll be no economy. How and when we find an equilibrium is anybody's guess. I had thought the greater lending would start to kick back ib by late Feb or early March but that looks to be delayed.

    On oil - I'm wondering if the weekly build that is so much greater than expected each week is resulting from such low demand or OPEC cheating. If the latter is not happening and we are building at this level every week than oil at $35 is seriously overpriced and gas is completely in lala land.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Dewey,

    MB is definitely going quite low to keep vehicles moving but it was also a function of the Highlander hybrid being in short supply and in high demand. In fact it's lease price seemed a lot more ridiculously high, particularly given the economic climate than the GL seemed low.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tag,

    That went from a bad exterior to a lot worse interior in a hurry. This is either Bangle's parting shot or they need to get him back ASAP.

    We need D-Man for this analysis.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    LJ, yes, Freehold...currently between opportunities but worked for a manufacturing firm in Orange Count with Corporate in Yonkers so I made the trip up there frequently. We're neighbors after all!

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    Apparently, new meat.

    '...freshly promoted BMW design boss Adrian van Hooydonk, the man behind the car's bold appearance.'

    Donk should provide plenty of nice of nice adjectives. ;)
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    " This month my wife and I are going to test drive the 2010 Lexus RX350 just to get the feeling of what the RX450h will be like. Never drove a RX before so it will be a new experience. "

    I believe that you will enjoy it. I was really impressed with the interior features/styling and the high tech when I saw it at the Detroit Auto Show in mid January. My wife and I will see it again at a special unveiling this Monday evening at my Dealer. I plan on test driving it as soon as I can in the next couple weeks.
  • ilikecars2ilikecars2 Member Posts: 3
    Hello Lexus? Did some intern at Toyota design this car? I've had two lexus and looking forward towards my next purchase, HOWEVER, this car looks like a blinged out toyota corrolla. Do the words cadillac cimmeron ring a bell?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is an excerpt from an article covering a speech given by the CEO of Hyundai at the Chicago Auto Show....I'm liking this brand more every day!

    He also said dealers and their sales force "have an immense image problem with their consumer base. Thanks in great part to manufacturer programs that put more focus on moving the iron than consistently delighting our customers, we have reached the point where, frankly, Americans would rather go to the dentist than visit a car dealer."

    Not exactly the happy and upbeat Chamber of Commerce speech typical for the unofficial kickoff of this historically important and dealer-oriented auto show.

    Instead, Krafcik continued his expressive, critical and uncompromising speech by saying the auto industry needs to own up to its shortcomings -- and admit there is truth to most of the negative perceptions of the industry.

    Saying turning around the industry "will require some revolutionary thinking," Krafcik said the emphasis needs to continue on quality and proving that "we listen to our customers and respond to their needs."

    Not new advice, that -- but he followed up with: "Skimping on quality to hit a cost target is a mistake, in my opinion. We'd all be better off as an industry if every manufacturer missed every cost target on every new-vehicle launch by $100. If we took that money and sunk it into terrific interiors with soft touch points and great vehicle dynamics, I promise you we'd all get that money back through customer satisfaction, loyalty and goodwill."

    Here is the full story link.

    Auto Industry Contempt

    Regards,
    OW
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Don't get the seats. BMW design is becoming tragic. I thought the removal of Bangle would fix the problem. If you look at the prevous 7-Series (2000-2002) that design is still timeless to me - elegant yet sporty similar to Audi's Bauhaus design style which I favor. I am not sure, but is this an attempt by BMW to do their version of the "Sportback" design element? Or is this more supposed to be a Liftback concept which is higher and bulkier? I have to admit that Audi's concept of Sportback is substantially more elegant, intellectually more stimulatiing to look at, and has more of performance vibe to it. Also, the A7 Sportback Concept or the Q7 Concept interiors ae substantially better looking than this.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    BMW design is becoming tragic.

    Bangle's departure could be the best thing to happen to BMW. There has obviously been too much internal dysfunction surrounding their designs. It's hard to know how much credit or blame to lay on Chris, but perhaps now there will be a better atmosphere that will allow more creative juices to flow... which could end up being a very good thing in the future... or a catastrophe. Either way, it's a very mixed bag at the moment.

    Can't say for sure, but I don't think I'm likely to return to BMW in the future. I may just want to go Japanese for a while. :surprise:

    TM
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Can't say for sure, but I don't think I'm likely to return to BMW in the future. I may just want to go Japanese for a while

    OMG, thinks have seriously changed here :surprise:

    How are you tagman and every1else here?

    I was gone for a while.

    Whats new here? Any1 got any new cars here?

    Hows your 911 and 135i? Any plans to get a new car?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    You are going to think you are in the twilight zone.

    I've got an MB GL450 since late November

    Dewey's disgusted with his BMW and is looking at a Prius or even an RX

    Tag - well you just saw his post.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    After seeing this interior, I'm feeling even sicker...

    The exterior is definitely not attractive from any angle, though at least the grille is reasonably sized. That said, I don't think the current 5 series is attractive from any angle.

    As for the interior, obviously those colors and materials are just whacked out concept, and will never make production. The overall design though is a carbon copy of the new 7, which IMO is BMW's best interior ever. Going from this:

    image

    To this is definitely a major improvement.

    image
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Hello,

    I remember your GL450.

    I talked to you and (Houndi) at the Lexus forum when you were about to buy the GL.

    How's your GL? Do you still love it? Or the hating relation has already started?

    Tag has definitely changed, :confuse:
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Yep - I forgot that. The GL is a great SUV and I love it and am surprised and happy about the MPG I've been getting.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Changed?

    Just because I now like hybrids and some Japanese cars and have sold my 911 and my 135i is for sale... and I think reliability is more important than I used to think?

    Changed?

    Now you know the truth... I am Tag's evil twin. I killed the first Tag.

    TM
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Ha :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Oh, it's an experience alright. Bring coffee, you don't want to fall asleep behind the wheel

    Dont worry. I am a coffee addict who is always equipped with at least one cup in my hand.

    But seriously. Unlike last time I am going to be open minded about my next vehicle.

    No preconceptions. Just want to know if the RX450h is comfortable for family members. Good for long road trips? Good cargo capacity, Great technology. Great reliability, Great "fit and finish". Comfort for family members. Great services. Great durability.

    In otherwordsI am considering all the things I did not consider when considering my BMW 335i.

    Regards,

    Soccer Dad Dewey
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Cyclone and Tagman,

    I did see both the RX450H and the hybrid Escape at the Toronto Auto Show today.
    And yes I was impressed with the features of the RX450H. This big cumbersome luxuryious vehicle gets the 30 percent better mileage than a petite and spartan Toyota Matrix. Impressive indeed.

    The Ford Excape with NAV and thsoe Microsoft features struck me as a bit pricey for such a vehichle (42K $ CDN = approx 34K US$) . I will have to test drive one and see if there are any good deals.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Now you know the truth... I am Tag's evil twin. I killed the first Tag.

    My Evil Twin definitely killed the Old Dewey. Except my Twin is not an Identical Twin. He does not look like me at all but looks exactly like my Evil BMW 335i. ;)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    BMW is doing something that may be considered quite smart during boom times And that is the introduction of niche vehicles that cater to every single obscure and trivial need out there.

    Unfortunately these are not boom times. During times like these even luxury car buyers are becoming more practical. Today most luxury car buyers are not striving and working hard for a vehilce like a 5 Series Gran Turismo vehicle.

    I mean c'mon how many people in this forum wants a Gran Turismo 5 Series ?

    What next from BMW?
    A 3 seriesr Gran Turismo Vehicle?
    A 1 series Gran Turismo r Vehicle?
    A 6 series Gran Turismo Vehicle?
    A 7 series Crossover Gran Turismo Vehicle?

    I mean isn't this getting ridiculous?

    BMW and MB are frantically creating these new and completely senseless niche vehicles because they cant face the TRUTH. The truth is that during such a dire situation as today-- luxury marques are going to suffer most no matter how many niche vehicles there are today.

    Lexus has Toyota.
    Audi/Porsche has VW.

    Even during hard times people will still need to drive VWs and Toyotas. Lexus and Audi will not suffer as much since they can still cling onto the apron strings of their parent firm during hard times.

    MB and BMW? Unfortunately both are like crying babies in the darkness without a mother to cling to. And both are dealing with their "fears of being all alone without a parent" by inventing silly little niche playthings just to kill time.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yup...no 2nd or 3rd mortgages to the wannabe folks who crave MB, BMW or Audi. It's downsize time in the Fatherland. Same as the Colonies!

    Regards,
    OW
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi Dewey----I imagine I am writing to the real Dewey----I think both BMW and Mercedes made their mistakes many years ago, by downsizing , and trying to have a vehicle in every niche.....Between that and leasing they lost their idenity and ability to service the cars that they were known for...I would guess with our economies shrinking, that the world as we have known it will be a different place, as I really don`t see anything coming back in a short time frame....Even if we were booming along as we were a few years ago, I don`t think I would buy another expensive car as the loss is just brutal, like buying a thousand share of a company and immediately loosing twenty thousand, followed by twelve to fifteen thousand dollars a year---just be be driving around, and not much...

    .If I were to sell my place in Miami, I would defenitely get a smaller car...What I don`t know...as alot of my long distance driving would be over....I did think about getting a Prius and just leave it down there, but that is stupid also...I think it is smart to chnge with the times and be a survivor....Tony ps I might be buying my daughter a new car and at the top of the list would be the Lexus 450h
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Why are you selling your 135i? You were so much in love with this car, you'd never stop talking about it! :surprise: And now you want to sell it :blush:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Why are you selling your 135i? You were so much in love with this car, you'd never stop talking about it! And now you want to sell it

    Well... it's a bit complicated and personal. But here's the brief...

    The financial crisis has impacted me in a profound way. To be honest, I have a gorgeous home in a very special location that I really, really, really want to hang on to. I do not want to uproot my wife and kids from this property. To keep it, I need to make absolutely certain that my priorities and resources are focused.

    I am selling the extra cars, and forging a new business model. Assuming I can outlast this financial crisis, which I intend to do, I can always get new cars in the future... but quite frankly, I don't think I will ever be motivated to get too many cars ever again. A sporty hybrid would get my attention, but nothing else interests me. In the meantime, I am enjoying my Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas, and I have no doubts that I am a very fortunate man to own such a magnificent automobile.

    And, if I end up having to scale back on the home, sure I'd be incredibly sad, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

    The 911 is already sold, and the 135i is listed. Hopefully, it will be sold soon as well. The buyer will get a tremendous deal, because the car is absolutely loaded... and I am being so reasonable on its price.

    Thanks for asking. A man has to do what a man has to do. And I'm doing just that.

    TM
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    Best wishes Tag, and I'm sure you'll rebound from this. It is encouraging to see someone make the tough decisions and sacrifices that you're making without playing the victim card. If other people were as accountable and as thoughtful as you, we may not be in this financial crisis.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    … definitely a major improvement.

    Indeed. Those pics a very illustrative on how redesigning can led to neat lines without parting with the whole setting.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Hi Tag,

    your candidness is a rare attribute.

    Believe me I know especially in the endeavor of investments. You wont believe this but the majority of people I meet bought all their investments at the bottom and sold them with perfect timing at peaks.

    Any idiot can claim to be a superinvestor or a "Warren Buffett" especially if he does not have to disclose his investment account statements for public viewing.

    The truth is many people are so insecure with themselves that they would rather make fraudulent claims about their successes than admit the truth . It is only a rare person indeed who can admit the truth. Warren Buffett made some recent bone headed investments himeself but you wont see him being insecure. In the long term it is those rare honest types who are usually the successful ones.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Tony,

    I am learning the concept of Auto Depreciation firsthand with my BMW 335i. I know the black book wholesale value of my car but every dealership I talked to claims that this value is far too inflated.

    I am going to sell my car privately and see what happens. I know that I can sell my car privately at a premium that is significantly higher than wholesale price. There is a huge gap between BMW 335i retail and wholesale prices.

    Never again am I going to buy a luxury car without a strong record of reliability. In fact never again am I going to buy any car without a strong record of reliability,

    I think your daughter will love the Lexus RX450h, What amazes me is that I know many males who drive Lexus RX models. It appears in this forrum that a Lexus RX is as femine as stiletto heeled shoes.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed. After my downsizing in September, I returned my BMW (leased2006) and bought a CR-V. Call me Mr. RIF.

    I found the little devil from the vin at Rich Catena Wholesalers here in NJ for $6K less than they offered me to buy it!

    Anyway, the market is extremely tight for month an the jobs side...I have a slew of competition.

    Like TM, I made sure I would stay in my home and burned the mortgage! And my best friend is now back in the workforce after 19 years.

    Nice Valentine's present, eh? :sick:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    That is why I leased up front...cost me more but I am free now! At 45K, the miles are ripe for trouble around the near turn! The good thing is it was flawless over the 3 years.

    I am starting the count for how long the car sits at $22,500 ($43,927 Cap Cost 12/2005)...so far 3 weeks.

    Regards,
    OW
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Soccer Dad Dewey

    Are you also aficionado? Then you should watch La Roja matches.

    :D

    Regards,
    Jose
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    What a market!

    Right now, in an unusual market trend, West Texas crude is selling for much less than inferior grades of crude from other places around the world. A severe economic downturn has left U.S. storage facilities brimming with it, sending prices for the premium crude to five-year lows.

    But it is the overseas crude that goes into most of the gas made in the United States. So prices at the pump will probably keep going up no matter what happens to the benchmark price of crude oil.

    "We're going definitely over $2, and I bet we'll hit $2.50 before spring," said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service. "This is going to be an unusual year."

    On the last day of 2008, gas went for $1.62 on average, according to the auto club AAA, the Oil Price Information Service and Wright Express, a company that tracks transportation data.

    The recession in America has dramatically cut demand for crude oil, and inventories are piling up. So prices for West Texas crude have fallen well below what oil costs from places like the North Sea, Saudi Arabia and South America.

    That foreign oil sells in some cases for $10 more per barrel -- and that doesn't even include shipping.

    Historically, West Texas International crude has cost more. So nobody bothered building the necessary pipelines to carry it beyond the nearby refineries in the Midwest, parts of Texas and a handful of other places.

    Now that the premium oil is suddenly very inexpensive, refiners elsewhere can't get their hands on it.

    "It's so cheap," said Lynn Westphall, the senior VP of external affairs at San Antonio-based Tesoro, which owns a half dozen refineries on the West Coast and Hawaii. "But you can't just build a pipeline to everywhere. We know we can't get it."

    Tesoro's refineries in North Dakota and Utah use locally drilled oil and Canadian oil, which also has been running about $10 more per barrel than West Texas crude.

    So why not build more pipelines? Because investing billions of dollars over several years makes no sense when the prices could just flip a year from now to where they were before.

    "How long is WTI going to be cheaper than Venezuelan oil? Than Canadian?" asked Charles T. Drevna, president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association. "You just don't build a pipeline like that."

    At the same time, refiners have seen the same headlines as everyone else about job losses and consumer spending. They've slashed production just to avoid taking losses on gasoline no one will buy. Result: Higher gas prices.

    Unbelievable! :sick:

    Regards,
    OW
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