Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

kens · May 2003

With top mounting Yakima racks, you don't have to buy a new set of cross bars. Depending on the model, all you need to do is get a set of "Mighty Mounts" to use your factory rack. The "Mighty Mounts" are simple plastic adapters that are designed for OE racks and will let you use most of Yakima's systems.

I haven't shopped for Yakima racks in a while so products have changed a bit, but it looks like the Cobra, Anklebiter and Raptor models should work with Mighty Mounts.

Ken

The

russski · May 2003

Hi guys and girls,
I have Forester 2003 2.5x, manufactured in jan 03,
At the moment it has 3300km on the Speedo.
I live in Sydney Australia (BTW beautiful country). I drive only in the city. (Must admit - the time I drive there is not that much of the traffic, but never the less it is not a hiway)
My worst ever fuel consumption with this car was 11.5L per 100Km (24m/gl)- my first tank.
Since then my average is 9.3L per 100Km (30m/gl) and it was as low as 32m/gl.
The only way I can explain that you guys having such a hi fuel consumption is that you have a ,softly speaking, not a good quality fuel in the US.
BTW the fuel I use is standard ulp RON 90. This is a lowest unleaded RON available here in Australia.
Forgot to mention I have only used A/C 10% of the time.

Regards...........Vitaly

jimbob17 · May 2003

It doesn't look as good? Hmph! I bought my 03 X because I thought the cladding and the silver balanced each other. Yin and Yang and all that. You don't have to wax one third of the car and if you are over six feet tall you don't have to bend over as far or sit down on an inverted recycle able container to wax your car.

dagpotter · May 2003

I can't argue with you too much, I like it. But it is to be my wife's car, and she doesn't like it. So looks like Premium Package is it.

maverick1017 · May 2003

DaveM: no floating black stuff, just on the side walls. and on the bottom of the tank. no oil consumption, I check the level just today, perfectly on the mark. been getting better than average gas mileage recently too. I have about 84,600 miles or there abouts on the car. yeah, its a 98.

Juice: what else can it be if its not fungus?? got any ideas? I read the post on head gaskets, but I don't have any of the symtoms, no sweet smell to the exaust. I'll try that bleach thing tomorrow when I work on the car.

Mike

allhorizon · May 2003

Vitaly,

That would be imperial gallons? In US gallons, I believe your 9.3l/100km is a little less than 26mpg.

- D.

russski · May 2003

D.
Thanks for correction. You are absolutely right.
My conversions were based on imperial gallons.
I have conversion table in front of me, but it never occur to me that it is not US gallons.

Thanks again.............Vitaly

forestergump · May 2003

I could be wrong, but I believe even on the premium speaker package, the cones are paper. Most high quality speaker will have plastic cones for better sound and durability. I upgraded from the standard speakers on my '99, and the quality was noticeably improved. Now I'm spoiled - I have a hard time tolerating the crappy quality of my wife's '02 Camry stock audio system - no offense to Camry owners out there.

It's pretty well understood that most OEM audio systems are WAY below what would be considered good quality sound.
-Bob

deepdrop · May 2003

I was wondering if the OEM rack you bought from subaru stays on your roof all the time. Does the front assembly that holds the tire fold down or do you remove it? Does it create a lot of wind noise or effect your mileage? Does it get in the way of your sunroof if you have one? Sorry for all the questions<g>
I found a picture of one and it looks bulky but then again I've heard that some fold down pretty flush. Thanks.
Dan

madturk · May 2003

First the non-premuim speakers are pretty lousy in my opinion. I added the tweeters for a little more high end. Crutchfield has a great fit guide but for 03 Foresters it's pretty limited. In fact just to see, I pulled the door panel off. The problem is depth. I measured 1 13/16" for a top mount speaker. I thought about making a spacer to give more room as the door panel has the room. The OEM speaker is built into its own custom spacer to do just that. BTW, the quality of the speakers are much to be desired. The magnet for the driver is non existent.

As for the Yackima rack you cannot use the mighty mounts for the fork mount bike carriers. That's my dilemma as I have 2 steelheads on 48" bars for my civic. I would have to go to the forester towers to be able to use my existing rack pieces. At $100 per steelhead plus lock cores, I would like to use them for both vehicles as needed.

deepdrop · May 2003

I looked on crutchfield and they have one kenwood, one sony, two pioneers, and a rockford-fosgate that fit the front door of a "03 Forester. They range from $50-$100. I'm thinking of upgrading my speakers too so I'm curious to hear as this discussion evolves. I know that several people have talked about the Sony's and seem pleased with them. I've already got the tweeters in but otherwise it's tha base system. I just got the car 10 days ago so I am not too familiar yet. The crutchfield site didn't list any rear spkrs but I'm pretty sure the car has rear speakers (after all it has a fader control). I'll have to look into this and see about upgrading them too.

gened1 · May 2003

One of the first things I did with my 02 Forester is have Alpine component speakers put into my front door and then ordered Alpines for the rear from Crutchfield. On the 02 The grills can be taken off and the rear speakers came with a short attaching wire . It took longer to take off the grill and unscrew the old speaker than to mount the new speaker. The sound now is great. I was told that Subaru head units have a little more power than most OEM radios. I haven't replaced it yet and don't know that I will.I do not have the subwoofer.
Gene

ateixeira · May 2003

Hi Vitaly, nice to have another member from Down Under (Graham is a regular here).

We measure octane by average RON and MON, (R+M)/2, so we can't even compare octane directly. But yeah, we have dozens of gas varieties so you never know what you're getting. Manufacturers have to "dumb down" engines to handle the worst stuff.

I love not having to bend over to wax it, saves an incredible amount of time too.

Mike: no idea, I find the whole thing rather bizarre. Keep us posted?

-juice

maverick1017 · May 2003

well I pulled the overflow tank off, poured out the contents, soaked the whole thing in bleach and detergent, and scrubed the inside with a bottle brush. all the black stuff are gone, still couldn't tell what the stuff was, there was no texture to the stuff. oh well, at least the tank is clean, hopefully it doesn't come back, I'll wait and see.

Thanks for all the help.

Mike

mjsnd80 · May 2003

First thing I did on my '03 XS was to add the tweeters (purchased online for about $50 or $60). They are VERY easy to switch. You pop off the plastic cover, and the wire & plug are right there! It didn't take five minutes to do the whole job. Sound quality was much improved.

The Front Speakers are next. I think I'll go with the Sony XPlods - which seem to be much better than the Subaru upgraded speakers.

The Rear Speakers are small, 4" I think, and Crutchfield doesn't list any recommendation. I may just leave them as they are, because they are practically under the two front seats anyway.

If the rear speakers were in the back part, or even on the lower inside of the tailgate, THAT might be a place for some 6 x 9s or something good like that.

Anybody seen/heard of that option?

ateixeira · May 2003

Bizarre Mike. What a freak occurence.

Check it in a week, then maybe a month after that. I doubt it'll come back.

Haven't seen speakers in the tail gate, but I think there are plugs on it that you can remove to change some light bulbs, so you should be able to see if there is room.

When you buy a speaker, make sure you get a surface mounted grille.

-juice

c_hunter · May 2003

The rear speakers are pretty much invisible -- they add some 3D ambience to the sound, but you barely even hear them. They certainly don't stand on their own. I'd say to focus on the fronts and tweeters.

I replaced the speakers in my WRX with Rockford Fosgates -- 6.5" up front (needed to fashion a spacer ring) and 4" in the back. Used DynaMat behind the speakers and around the speaker opening. If I had to do it agian, I would skip the rear door speakers altogether.

In the WRX, you could sandwich some 6x9 speakers in the rear deck, but there's no such option like this on the Forester. Even if you could squeeze something into the hatch area, the location would not be ideal for mid or high frequency sound. For the Forester, I think the best option is to keep the mids and highs up front, and bass in the rear. I had a component system set up like this on another car, and it sounded good.

Craig

sfdriver · May 2003

The Sony Xplod W1621's have 1 3/4" mounted depth, so should fit easily into the narrow Forester doors without spacers. I've been thinking about getting them. Ebay usually has a few retailers selling new ones at $39 - $43 plus $15 shipping, much less than Crutchfield's $70 + shipping. If anyone has these installed, did you have to add spacers? Was it a simple replacement?

eps105 · May 2003

Dan,

Here's the answers to your questions:

>I was wondering if the OEM rack you bought from Subaru stays on your roof all the time.

I mount it every Spring and leave it on until the Fall. It take about 15-20 minutes to mount and align, so it's really not something to pop on and off.

> Does the front assembly that holds the tire fold down or do you remove it?

If you are referring to the lockjaw mechanism this holds the frame, yes it folds down and sits nicely on top of the wheel track when not in use.

> Does it create a lot of wind noise or effect your mileage?

No wind noise complaints. Mileage may go down about 1-2 MPG, but I was never sure if that was due to my driving habits or the drag. Not a big deal.

> Does it get in the way of your sunroof if you have one?
Didn't have one on my 99 Forester and I haven't put it on my 03 XS prem yet, but I can tell you that it will not block the *operation* of the sunroof, but the bikes will definitely block your view up. I see this as GOOD since I can look out my sunroof and see that my bikes are still there!

> I found a picture of one and it looks bulky but then again I've heard that some fold down pretty flush.

I guess bulky is a matter of opinion. It doesn't require special cross members, so it just looks like two tracks and two lockjaws on top of the existing rack. If you want to be able to effortlessly throw a couple bikes on your roof whenever you want and not block the rear hatch, this is a fine choice.

If you buy it, just remember to get the adapter clips for the Forester's roof rack. Your dealer should remind you, but you never know. They're about $12 IIRC. Incidentally, the adapter clips are identical for all '99-'03 (not sure about '98) Foresters.

Good luck,
Elliot

forestergump · May 2003

I replaced all of the stock speakers on my 99' Forester with Boston Acoustics and have been very pleased. They had models that fit into the factory mounts without any hitches.

-Bob

lfdal · May 2003

I wish the manufacturers, not just Subaru, would put 4 nice big pads under the car for the lifts used in the shops.

Had the Forester in the dealers looking for the missing oil and the guy who put it on the lift set one of the lift arms too far back. I noticed the damage a couple of days later when I got a good look at the car in profile.

It goes into the body shop tomorrow for them to straighten the bottom rail, possibly replace the lower trim piece and then repaint. At least the dealer was very reasonable about paying for the repair. This is the second time I've had to send the car to the body shop after they got done with it. The first was to get a scratch buffed out. I've learned to do a full walk around when it goes into any shop, then repeat when I pick it up. Now I guess I'll add checking the jack areas as well.

I just hate letting anyone else touch my car.

BTW - for anyone that's done it, just how tough is it to pull the front door panels on the 03 Foresters? New speakers are getting to be a better and better idea as time goes on

Larry

ateixeira · May 2003

Bummer Larry. If they're paying at least I hope they'll be more careful next time.

I put a piece of wood to protect my cars.

-juice

03xngreen · May 2003

I hear you, Larry. We took our Forester to the dealer for a creaking noise in the steering and they lowered the car on a roll-away toolbox, requiring a new front bumper.

Anyway, the creaking noise was diagnosed as rack & pinion bushings that needed lubrication. After their work, all has been quiet for a month and a half, but now its back again. Anyone have a suggestion that I can relay to the dealer to check and fix for good? Thanks.

nygreg · May 2003

same here. Had my Sienna in Costco for new tires 2 weeks ago. I can't find any damage, but, since then the gas door doesn't close as easily and the front driver's door takes just a little more effort. Nothing I can prove though. Last time I go there.

Greg

ateixeira · May 2003

I do it all myself. I'm far from perfect, but at least I know exactly what I did wrong later, and just learn from it.

Hmm, you can spray lithium grease on bushings, which takes seconds. I wouldn't want to do that every 45 days, though. I do it when I rotate the tires.

-juice

once_for_all · May 2003

so far I have done it all myself too. The Forester has a lot of plastic, but up front their are two good jack spots. In the rear, the diffy is the only thing solid that I could find that would allow me to jack and then be able to put a jack stand somewhere.

Now here is the interesting thing about the Forester chassis. It is extremely tight and solid, so much so that when I took the rear end up (tires only 1 inch off the ground), one of the two front jack stands support points came up too. A full six feet away, and the chassis didn't have enough flex to keep weight on both front stands. Solid stuff here.

I am leaning towards the wooden rail that you use, Juice.

John

ateixeira · May 2003

You can even cut a tiny groove in a piece of wood to prevent it from slipping out from under the door jamb.

-juice

c_hunter · May 2003

You guys are scaring me with all these lift/jack horror stories at the dealerships and tire shops. I already hate to give them my cars, now I am even more scared! I don't expect a whole lot out of the idiots that work in auto repair these days, but they at least should know how to lift/jack the car properly. Nevermind the damage they can cause to the vehicle, it's a serious safety issue. I bet OSHA would fine their butts if they knew about this kind of thing. A contractor at NASA got a $50K fine for this sort of carelessness.

Craig

nygreg · May 2003

amazes me how the two most expensive investments in ones life (most at least) are the cars and house. And both have an over population of brain dead, couldn't care less, so called mechanics.

<rant off>

Greg

P.S. wish I could mount and balance my own tires.

casecom2 · May 2003

The June issue is now available at ConsumerReports.org, including the road test of small SUVs (Forester, Element, Outlander, Sorento, Aztek, Baja).

They tested the Forester X with an automatic, and it's their top-rated small SUV, just ahead of the RAV4. They liked the ride, handling, braking and the interior layout. They also praised the acceleration, 0-60 in 9.7 seconds, which was second-best in the group, just behind the Sorento.

About the only bad things they had to say was that the gated shifter is a "nuisance" (have to agree there) and that the tires "aren't very grippy."

They seemed to like the Baja, although they said it's definitely better to think of it as a car than as a truck.

They liked the well-made Element even though the interior design was "fraught with compromises"; the Outlander was unimpressive; the Sorento had a nice interior and strong engine but ride and handling were poor; the Aztek's only good point was its cargo space.

paisan · May 2003

Why on earth would Consumer Reports put the Sorento in with that group?????

The Sorento is not at all supposed to be in that group at all. It has Body-on-Frame, it's larger than the others, it has low-range, and it's a TRUCK! Not to mention a 5000lb towing capacity!

Arggg I hate Consumer Reports.

-mike

ateixeira · May 2003

I agree with paisan 100%. No way, no how does Sorento belong in that group.

First, it wide, *very* wide. I'm sure it's roomier than a Grand Cherokee, for instance. It definitely belongs with the mid-sizers.

Price might make people cross-shop with compacts, but it is not compact. Check inside and see for yourself.

Any how, nice to see the Forester on top again. Too bad their test came a month after the Car Issue, which had the RAV4 on top.

-juice

sfdriver · May 2003

That's pretty good they got 9.7 secs 0-60 for the Forester. In the 8/02 issue, they tested the Outback Sport auto and got 10.5 secs. The OS is lighter, and looks more flat & slanted, so probably more aerodynamic also. Did Subaru improve the 03 Forester's automatic tranny? I recall the last Forester tested 2 or 3 years also also had a 0-60 time around the mid-10's. I test drove both the OS and Forester before buying, and they felt just as fast.

BTW, the OS came out second to last in the 8/02 issue, just ahead of the PT Cruiser, and behind the Jetta Wagon, RAV4, '00 Forester, Focus Wagon, Matrix/Vibe, ZX5, CRV, Protege5.

ateixeira · May 2003

Sample error might explain it.

Also, does the OBS get the 4.11 final drive ratio? Forester might have slightly quicker gearing.

-juice

rsholland · May 2003

They tested it because it's priced with the others, and customers may cross-shop it with the others even though it is a "truck."

I know I would if I were in the market, I would probably cross-shop a whole range of vehicles, before narrowing down my selections. I'm sure a lot of people are on the fence as to whether to buy a car-based SUV or a truck-based SUV. A report like this could help them make up their minds.

Bob

lfdal · May 2003

I purchased the Subaru grate for my 03 XS and I'm happy with it, but there are a couple of caveats:

1) You need to pull two trim pins out of the headliner and even though I was using the right tool, one of the pins broke apart so I have an very occassional rattle in the headliner. Once you install it you need a phillips screwdriver to get it in and out.

2) You lose the use of the pull curtain since the grate mounts directly into the curtain mounts.

3) It is a very solid well made barrier - and you should be able to beat the dealer's price. I paid around $110 for mine.

HTH

Larry

kens · May 2003

The Sorento? I agree that it doesn't belong with the other models. What did CR say in their introduction? They usually explain how they chose the models to compare. I'll have to check it out when my issue arrives.

Good to know the Forester is back on top. I can't wait until reviews of the XT come out.

I guess I'm one of the few that actually like the gated auto shifter on the current Subies. I think it makes 3<->D shifts easy, IMO.

Ken

sfdriver · May 2003

Hi Juice, yes the OBS auto has a final drive ratio of 4.11 also.

deepdrop · May 2003

I just got an "03 forster xs. The owner's manual refers to the security indicator light which flashes to indicate the system is armed. Where is this light located???
Thanks.

gmginsfo · May 2003

Nice to see they top rated the car I just bought! While I like that magazine alot, they do go over the top sometimes with their commentary, especially when they stray into social policy matters. They're also a bit inconsistent at times, as the juxtaposition of the results from the car issue and the June issue shows. But overall, they're a worthwhile publication and I'm happy to support them. They've saved me a lot of money over the years and kept me from making some serious purchasing mistakes.

Russki, I wish I had a Subaru when I visited Oz back in '89. After a week in Sydney, I flew up to Brisbane for four days and then drove from there to Melbourne in some sort of foreign-Ford. Learning to drive on the wrong side of the road wasn't so bad, but those traffic circles and left turn "hook" lanes were killer! Seriously, it was a beautiful trip full of memorable moments, like coming across herds of cattle wandering across the highway, seeing a 3' tall barn owl strolling across the road snatching up the mice that were hording about, seeing the Southern Cross (is that the idea behind Subaru's logo?) for the first time, and chancing upon a beautiful 50m outdoor pool in some interior town (Goolamera?) on a 100+ degree day. A true lap swimmer's delight to provide some relief from a surprisingly long (3+ days) trip. Am looking forward to getting back down under soon!

once_for_all · May 2003

you may not have a security package. I picked up my '03 xs in February, so I know a security package is not standard fare.

John

03xngreen · May 2003

The security light's located at the bottom of the tach. It's really tough to see it, if it isn't on. John's right though, if you don't have the security upgrade, it won't light up.

hypov · May 2003

hee hee... you barely see it even if it is lited, especially when you're outside looking in.

-Dave

deepdrop · May 2003

I do have the security upgrade. The manual refers to the light but the diagram offers no context to locate it. Just a box with a little circle in the middle, representing the light. At least now I know where to look for it. Thanks!

paisan · May 2003

Well for one thing they down the Sorento for all the reasons it shouldn't be included in that comparison. "Trucky" "Bad handling" "poor fuel economy" As long as they are gonna go by price, why didn't they include the Dodge Caravan AWD? It would have handily kicked butt over all the other "SUVs" in that writeup in handling, space, and price. Arggggg

-mike

mutcth · May 2003

I get the feeling that people shopping for the Sorento will be comparing it to more carlike unibody SUVS, rather than intentionally looking for a body-on-frame SUV. The comments about the Sorento are in comparsion to other SUVs, not to the world of vehicles. When you compare the Sorento to an Escape or Santa Fe, those comments are valid - and it isn't comparing apples and oranges.

To answer Ken's question, as written in the story: "For this issue, we tested five models that span the market."

Finally, the inconsistency between the June issue and the April auto issue is because the results for the newly tested Forester weren't available in time for publishing.

All opinions my own, not CRs.

Tom

ateixeira · May 2003

Let's put it this way - the Sorento's strengths are not the type of things CR measures.

IMHO, it would make more sense to group it seperately with the XTerra and Rodeo. Maybe the Grand Vitara too.

I read it FWIW, literally. I have to admit, it seems like the audience they write for is a soccer mom with 3 kids. They evaluate a vehicle mostly for family use.

-juice

tkevinblanc · May 2003

Gotta disagree, mutcth.

It's typical of reviewers, not just CR, to start a review with "this vehicle really doesn't belong here because..." and then proceed to slap the vehicle around for being what it is.

If the Sorrento was to be in this test, then there should have been a trailer towing evaluation, a rock-crawling evaluation, etc.

Then, at least they wouldn't be doing the vehicle a dis-service.

BTW, Paisan and I are Trooper owners. Remember what CR did to the Trooper?

ateixeira · May 2003

They do tow trailers with big trucks, BTW. I recall a pickup review where they mentioned that.

And they do climb a rock hill, though it's pretty mild and doesn't nearly challenge the limits of a truck-based SUV.

But I agree, had the Sorento been tested under these circumstances, it would have a chance to shine.

-juice

mutcth · May 2003

Not being a glutton for punishment, I'm not going to go near the Trooper issue.

As for the Sorento, the problem here is that without reading the story, an incomplete picture is being painted. From the article:

Highs: Off-road ability, controls and displays, towing capacity, interior features.

Lows: Ride, fuel economy.

Seems to me (mind you, I don't test the cars) that CR told the whole story. We do test all SUVs for off-road capability (we have one heck of an off-road course to do it, not just the rock hill but a muddy course as well - it was designed by a former Land Rover development engineer who now heads Auto Test at CR) and we test acceleration while towing a trailer - indeed, that statistic is mentioned in the Sorento review ("the Sorento easily pulled a 3500 pound trailer from 0-60 in a respectable 20.5 seconds.")

All opinions my own, not CRs.

Tom

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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