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Comments
The LFA is slower in a straight line and has a lower top speed than many of its peers, but its Top Gear lap and its unofficial Nurburgring performance suggests that as a track car, its roughly as fast as an Enzo. Several years ago that would've been an amazing feat, Toyota catching Ferrari's best.
As the overall Top Gear board proves however, it's actually not that hard to keep up with the Enzo anymore. The latest Gallardo Superleggera should be able to manage that, no problem.
The problem I see is if its not any faster than a 458 Italia or a Gallardo LP-570-4, it has to be a heck of a lot more special to drive. Maybe it is, but is it really twice as good as those cars to be worth double the money?
Geez... they haven't exactly had a whole lot of choice, have they?
Besides, as I see it, historically car collectors appreciate unique cars.
The LFA doesn't offer anything unique... other than the fact that it is unusual for any Lexus to actually perform that well. The Lexus marque itself is not a good thing here.
The Porsche, on the other hand could be considered revolutionary and it is certainly more unique... essentially one-of-a kind... and rare. When something is rare, it is a collector's dream.
Sorry, but I just can't buy into the LFA being a better collector's car, and certainly not a better investment than the Porsche 918 Spyder.
I suppose that if I really just had to have a super-fast rice-burner, I'd get a GT-R to toss around, and then park it next to the occassionally-driven and mostly-covered-and-protected Porsche 918 Spyder. :P
TM
Agree. How big of a problem the badge is depends on the type of person, but as Top Gear pointed out in their test, it's definitely an issue. I can just see the situation now:
"So what are you driving these days?"
"Ferrari."
"Wow!"
"Yeah it's the new 458. Just amazing, revs to 9000, it's the business".
Or:
"So what are you driving these days?"
"Lexus."
"Oh."
"It's called the LFA".
"Hmm, what is?"
"The Lexus. It's called the LFA, it's a V-10 powered super car".
"So.. like a Ferrari... but.. its a Lexus, so I guess it must cost less then."
"No, it's actually more expensive".
"Huh. So is it made out of mars dust or something incredible like that?"
"No, pretty standard super car stuff".
"So is it the fastest thing ever?"
"No, not really."
So to put this in investment terms, I see the LFA as the equivalent of the IPO of a promising upstart. Whereas the 918 is somewhat of a sure thing such as Apple, but a single miss step can also kill it.
Also, if Porsche were going to make the 918 in large quantities in order to make money, then it'd lose the rare car factor. The idea of owning one of only 500 cars ever made is huge for me.
Last but not least, I've never said the 918 is less of an investment than the LFA. I would have a hard time picking btw the two if they were available at the same time.
Just imagine the jokes on the LFAh, when it ran out of juice on the 3rd lap of a 10 laps race with other supercars.
Don't forget there are huge Lexus fan base out there with big $$$, that don't care for European Names and would shell out serious cash for equivalent Asian products. Wait a minute, I am one of them
Yes, sometimes the truth is hard to believe... sometimes it's easy.
Either way... it is what it is.
TM
TM
We'll see. Supposedly the next stop on the F-train is the GS-F, which is now looking like it will appear in the next generation car as its getting very late in the current car's life cycle. I would hope at least that Lexus doesn't think they can let the car sit on the market for another 8 years with no changes.
The rumor suggests a detuned version of the LFA's V-10 with about 450hp, which doesn't sound particularly promising. The already available Jag and AMG Mercedes are both over 500, and the next M5 will basically be using the X5M's 555hp twin turbo V8.
If the rumor is true the GS would be the only one left with a V-10, but can you really think of anyone out there who wants a Lexus GS with a V-10 engine and a rock hard IS-F style ride?
Also, the LFA's V10 is special in itself. It is very compact and light weight, and that makes it easier to package a well balanced car design. For example, nearly every reviewer prefers the V8 R8's handling over the V10 version due to its better balance. The same goes for Lexus's own ISF vs IS350 sport.
IMHO, while others worked on increasing HP, Lexus choose a more fundamentally sound path on making their vehicles perform better.
Apr 15, 2010
source: Audi AG
Ingolstadt, GERMANY – The new A8 is a concentrated high-tech package that confirms Audi claim to technical leadership – “Vorsprung durch Technik”. And now the brand is introducing the top version of its flagship model. The A8 L W12 quattro, with a long wheelbase and a twelve-cylinder engine, sets new standards of luxury, dynamism and efficiency in the top automobile manufacturing league. The Audi A8 L is being launched with a twelve-cylinder engine, but by the end of the year will be available with all the engines currently offered for the A8.
What’s fascinating about the A8 L is its supremely powerful presence; its design is clearly derived from the brand’s genes and yet has undergone further refinement. The long wheelbase does not disturb its taut outlines, which remain as athletic as they are elegant.
With an overall length of 5,267 millimeters (17.28 ft), the new Audi A8 L is 130 mm (0.43 ft) longer than the regular version. The wheelbase has grown by the same amount, to 3,122 mm (10.24 ft). The width remains unchanged at 1,949 mm (6.39 ft); the height has increased by 2 mm (0.08 in) to 1,462 mm (4.8 ft). Audi’s new top model is both longer and wider than its main long-wheelbase competitors.
The A8 L has a body built from aluminum using the Audi Space Frame (ASF) principle and therefore weighing about 40 percent less than a comparable steel body. The ASF body structure is built up from cast elements, extruded sections and sheet aluminum, with integral B-posts made from form-hardened ultra-high strength steel. This body’s tremendous rigidity is the key to the car’s precise handling, low interior noise levels and high passive safety for the occupants in the event of an accident.
Among the high-end technologies featured on the A8 model line are the optional LED headlight units (standard on the A8 L W12 quattro) with all lighting functions performed by LEDs. With this bright, high-efficiency light, Audi opens a new chapter in the history of automobile lighting technology.
Subtle visual details distinguish the A8 L W12 quattro from the other cars in this model line. The single-frame radiator grille with integral grid structure has a high-gloss black paint finish and special chromed horizontal bars. There are also chromed inserts of new design in the air inlets, and chromed applications on the exterior mirrors. W12 badges are displayed on the single-frame grille and at the rear of the car. The exhaust system has two trapezoidal-pattern tailpipe trims neatly integrated into the rear bumper.
Abundant space: Rear-seat area
The full extra length of this sedan benefits rear-seat passengers. The back doors are longer, for even more convenient entry, and the space available inside can only be described as opulent. Rear passenger comfort can be enhanced even more if two separate power-adjustable seats are ordered. These can be heated, ventilated and adjusted in a variety of ways: forward and back, seat cushion depth and seat back angle with top section adjustable separately. There is also a fully adjustable lumbar support. The front passenger’s seat can also be moved from the rear if extra space is needed.
Between the individual rear seats that are standard equipment in the Audi A8 L W12 quattro a full-length console can be ordered as an optional extra; it extends back from the center tunnel to the rear shelf, and can be specified with integral items such as a folding table or a refrigerator. Separate controls for the rear air conditioning are also standard. The luxury four-zone automatic air conditioning is controlled by no fewer than 25 adjusting motors.
Another high-end feature of the long-wheelbase Audi A8 is the reclining seat behind the front passenger’s seat. The angle of the seat cushion can also be adjusted. The occupant can be massaged by ten air-filled compartments; four programs can be selected at a remote control. The feet rest on a power-adjustable support at the base of the front passenger seat back. Heating, ventilation and the luxury head restraint are integral features of the reclining seat. A folding table, additional wood and leather trim, a refrigerator and a Rear Seat Entertainment system with two 10.2-inch screens are among the features that promote relaxed travel or alternatively concentrated work in this mobile lounge.
Fine materials: Interior design
The quality of workmanship in the A8 L is simply first-class – from the restrained ambient lighting through the accurately fitted switches with their precise click action. Fascinating aspects of the car’s interior are the slim, clear outlines and the stylish materials with their modern look.
Audi design selection brass beige carefully combines well-matched colors with individual materials and comfort-oriented equipment items. The roof-mounted grab handles and rear console have additional fine wood trim.
Valonea leather is tanned exclusively with plant extracts and is especially soft and able to “breathe” actively. Audi also supplies a loose cushion for rear-seat passengers’ use. Like the head restraints and the selector lever for the eight-speed tiptronic automatic transmission, it is trimmed with buckskin that is exceptionally soft and supple but also hard-wearing.
Another optional extra, the panoramic glass roof, has two glass panels that allow plenty of light to reach the car’s interior. Both sections can be tilted up and the front one also opened extra-wide. Sun blinds are provided for both panels to keep out direct sunlight.
The Audi A8 L W12 quattro: Splendor and efficiency
Twelve cylinders are the ultimate engine configuration, a tradition that still applies in the large luxury car class. The first-generation A8 was available with an engine of this type from 2001 on, and a developed version could be obtained from 2004 on in the following model. Audi’s engineers have now thoroughly revised the W12. Its displacement has been increased, and gasoline direct injection boosts its output and its efficiency.
The 6.3 FSI engine has an output of 368 kW (500 hp) and delivers its peak torque of 625 Nm (460.98 lb-ft) at engine speeds at 3,250 rpm. It gives the long-wheelbase Audi A8 the kind of performance normally expected of a sports car: it sprints from 0 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in only 4.9 seconds and effortlessly reaches its governed top speed of 250 km/h (155.34 mph).
A fascinating flow of power is available in every situation, but the fuel consumption too sets new standards: the EU cycle test result is only 12.0 liters per 100 kilometers (19.6 US mpg), a figure well below that of competitors’ cars with V12 engines. The previous 6.0-liter engine, which had a power output of 331 kW (450 hp), recorded a fuel consumption of 13.6 l/100 km (17.3 US mpg) – the difference of 1.6 l/100 km is equivalent to a 12 percent improvement.
Each of the W12 engine’s aluminum cylinder heads contains two camshafts; these can be repositioned hydraulically by an amount equivalent to 52 degrees of crankshaft rotation. Altogether, the four camshafts operate 48 valves by way of low-friction roller cam followers, and are themselves driven by chains from an intermediate shaft.
For use in the long-wheelbase A8, Audi’s engineers have converted the W12 engine to FSI gasoline direct injection. This involved considerable modifications to the cylinder heads. Fuel is injected into the combustion chambers at a pressure of up to 130 bar. A high 11.8:1 compression ratio boosts power output and efficiency. The inlet ports are specially shaped to impart swirl to the incoming airflow and make combustion more efficient.
The W12 engine’s low fuel consumption compared with its competitors is to a large extent due to Audi’s modular efficiency platform. These are used in the entire A8 model line. The crankshaft and timing chains have been intensively optimized to reduce friction, and a recuperation system recovers energy that would otherwise be wasted when the car is braked. The innovative thermal management system shuts down the coolant circuit for a time after the cold engine has been started. This warms up the engine oil more rapidly and shortens the operating period in which friction is still high.
Safe and sporty: Transmission
The transmission makes a major contribution to ensuring the high efficiency of the Audi A8 L. The eight-speed tiptronic shifts smoothly and quickly, with the individual gears closely spaced but with a generous overall spread from low to high. Gear shifts are performed electronically (“shift by wire”) from an elegant yacht-style selector lever or at steering wheel paddles.
The center differential, the main component in the quattro permanent all-wheel drive train, divides the torque flow from the engine in a sporty manner, with 60 percent to the rear axle and 40 percent to the front in regular driving conditions. But if the situation changes, up to 60 percent of the torque can be sent to the front, or 80 percent to the rear. An optional sport differential splits the torque input actively between the left and right rear wheels.
Maximum precision: Chassis
Thanks to its advanced chassis design, the long-wheelbase Audi A8 brings together the silky, refined smoothness of a true luxury car and the handling of a sport sedan. The wheel control arms are made of aluminum. The front suspension uses five locating arms at each wheel; the controlled-track wishbone rear suspension ensures a supremely comfortable ride. The servotronic power steering system has a direct operating ratio and operates at high efficiency.
The adaptive air suspension with controlled damping is standard equipment and is integrated into the Audi drive select dynamics system. With this system the driver can choose between four different operating settings of the engine, the eight-speed tiptronic transmission, the servotronic power steering, the optional sport differential and the Audi pre sense basic safety system. An additional module is the dynamic steering system, which varies its gear ratio steplessly according to road speed.
The A8 L W12 quattro runs on 19-inch alloy wheels with a 15-spoke design reserved for this model, and size 255/45 tires. As an optional extra 20-inch wheels can be chosen, and even 21-inch wheels can be obtained from quattro GmbH.
The A8 L W12 quattro, the new top model, naturally has a high-performance brake system, with ventilated disks at all four wheels. The front disks are 400 mm (15.75 in) in diameter, with 356 mm (14.02 in) disks at the rear. To dissipate heat and reduce weight, stainless steel pins connect the steel friction rings with the aluminum disk centers. The calipers have a matt black paint finish.
Dynamic intelligence: Communication and assistance systems
This large sedan features an exemplary control concept. Although there are so many functions available, they can be selected in an easily understood, ergonomically correct way. Two large monitor screens, one on the instrument panel and one on the center console, acts as control centers and display their information as high-resolution 3D graphics.
The A8 has a pioneering innovation on board: the optional MMI navigation plus, which operates with the aid of a high-capacity hard disk, has a touch-sensitive control panel known as MMI touch. The driver inputs his or her navigation destination or a telephone number simply by writing the letters or numerals on the pad with a finger. Acoustic feedback makes this possible without taking one’s eyes of the road.
The high-end navigation system cooperates with the assistance and safety systems in an innovative way. It registers the topography of the road in advance and makes this data available to the control units for the automatic transmission, headlights and adaptive cruise control with Stop & Go function. Thanks to their advanced intelligence, these systems can identify complex scenarios and offer the driver support in good time.
The adaptive cruise control system operates at any speed up to 250 km/h (155.34 mph) and responds even more flexibly and smoothly than before. The Audi side assist system, which helps the driver to change lanes, and Audi lane assist which detects any departure from the chosen lane, also have new and additional performance features.
The night view assistant uses a thermal imaging camera to identify persons on the road ahead of the car. If it considers the situation to be potentially dangerous, the image of the person on the road is shown in red and a warning signal is heard. The Audi pre sense safety system is also closely linked to the assistance systems. It is available in several stages: the full version brakes the car automatically in order to minimize the consequences of a nose-to-tail collision.
In the multimedia area, Audi can also supply many attractive modules. These include a Bang & Olufsen Advanced Sound System with an output rating of more than 1,400 Watts and 19 speakers, and the Rear Seat Entertainment system. This has an MMI control panel on the console between the rear seats and provides access to all the infotainment functions on board this large luxury sedan.
The new Online services in cooperation with Google use the car phone to capture news and current information on the weather or points of interest (POI) from the Internet. Later this year an UMTS module will be available: this fast
It was only a verbal offer but at least that made me feel good that I already have a customer for the car that I don't own yet.
Let's stop with the Lexus and continue with the Audi.
(This from a 2004-2007 - 3 LS owner). Now A8L owner. No comparison.
As a former LS owner myself, I would agree that the A8 (especially the new one) is the better car. That being said, Lexus is a luxury brand. The HS250h may struggle to qualify as luxury, but the A3 isn't exactly a Rolls Royce either.
But, I have the 2009 A8L and can tell you that when the 2012 A8L rolls off the line, I will have one in the line up.
Lexus.....luxury.......maybe the LS and above (not that many above) but anything below I personally do not put in the luxury circle of autos.
'10 A-8 (base) - 4,321 lbs.
'10 LS - (base) - 4,244 lbs.
I was surprised to see the A-8 would be seem embarrassed to wear the swim suit in comparison!
Regards,
OW
How about BMW, Infiniti, Acura, MB? If your definition of lux were so narrow, then we're only talking land yatches. :P
Have fun talking Audi.
You have to wonder if this guy is really an 11-year-old kid who's using Daddy's computer without Daddy's permission.
I thought it was VW doing most of the behind the scenes engineering work for Bentley, not Audi. The Continentals after all are VW Phaeton based - not A8, and they use a bit too many parts straight out of the Volkswagen bin. The new Mulsanne is thankfully more unique than the smaller Bentleys, and it does use an MMI based system as opposed to the el-sucko VW electronics in the Continentals, but other than that I didn't think Audi had much to do with it. They are usually more associated with Lamborghini.
The problem I have with Lexus is that for too long they've been over-promising and under-delivering. They've been shouting about how amazing each new product is going to be, and when they actually deliver the same mediocre dollop of vanilla ice cream that they always do, it looks worse than it otherwise would. That's not a good recipe for conquest sales or long term success.
Examples: the 2006 GS. Lexus says its going to be a 5 series killer. The GS has never gotten close to that before, but OK, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Nope, it's actually boring, poorly packaged, and underpowered. And to top it all off, its unreliable.
The GS450h. "V8 performance, V6 fuel economy!". Well, er, uh, its got more horsepower than the V6 GS, but we had to add so much weight to get it there that it's only marginally faster than the 350, and it gets maybe 1 whole extra mpg. Oh, and there's more space for luggage in a Porsche Boxster. Oh, and it costs $10,000 more.
LS460: "1989 all over again! This thing is going to turn the industry on its head!" Well, er, uh, it's actually a lot like the last one. Most of the technology is carried over, the new stuff is actually gonna be in the RX. But hey, it kinda parks itself, provided the space is so long that a small bear could park the car, and get it done faster than the computer.
Don't even get me started on the SC, the IS-C, HS and that ugly hatchback they have coming up.
A solid brand should not be shouting from the rooftops about products they know to be mediocre. Most luxury buyers aren't stupid. If you rely on hype and bluster for too long, they are going to leave.
Very nicely put.
No one is going to mistake my Honda wannabe (Acura) for a real sports sedan, but I much prefer it to Toyota.
Now, if only BMW would bring the small diesels with manual transmissions to North America. . .
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Most of the marques we consider the top contenders are so because their focus is on platforms that drive well first, and can be appointed appropriately by price point second. I truly believe Lexus approaches things from the opposite direction, looking to develop a platform that can hold all the tech and cush their teams can cook up, and applying the needed running bits to have any sort of driving experience as an after thought.
I've experienced the disappoinment firsthand...
If you want driving to be a comfortable plush ride in your LaZBoy, this is your brand!
Interesting theory. What I've been very surprised by over the last few years is that Lexus, and especially Acura, have put almost all of their focus into gadgetry, and things like design, materials, the driving experience, and just the general luxury ambiance have taken a back seat.
Despite focusing so heavily on electronics above all though...their electronics aren't as good as the Germans. This isn't how things used to work. In the '90s and early '00s, you bought a Mercedes or BMW for the driving experience, and put up with the awful electronic systems. Audi was the worst of the lot.
Now Audi is the best of the lot, with the latest versions of iDrive and COMAND not far behind. Tech king Acura has basically a cheap imitation of the superior German systems, and the Lexus mouse system is just kinda weird.
Both companies also can't seem to leave behind their '80's style temp displays and digital clocks, and Lexus had to be dragged from the cassette deck, kicking and screaming. You can still buy some Lexus models with cassette decks. Seriously. Cassette decks.
As I've said at least once before, my wife is hooked on audio books that she borrows from our local public library, & at least a third of the selection is still in cassette format. So we'll need a cassette deck in at least one of our cars until 2020.
Though I think Acura has a pretty good navigation system. I've used it first hand and the graphics, display, easy of use, and learning the system was very good, though I am pissed that they got rid of touchscreen. Personally, I like touchscreen the best and feels its the most intuitive but maybe I'm just a dinosaur now in my taste :P \
th the Germans, and Audi on the other hand, I found the iDrive extremely difficult to use and very difficult to learn. I'm not the only one, I've read several reviews of test drives by auto professional who also made the point with Audi to talk about how non-intuitive and complicated the idrive system is to not only learn but to use with multiple layers of commands I didn't think that the graphics or the preprogramed database was as knowledge and full as the Acura one. But as others have pointed out, nav systems is about the only thing Acura has going for it. They are stagnate on almost every other front
BMW was also given some cons to their nav system's ability and ease of use/learning! Its been awhile since I've been in Bimmer so I can not comment on them from my own experience.
The MMI is much more user friendly in my opinion than the IDrive. MMI has some steps that are redundant but the IDrive has many and it is just counter intuitive. BMW desrves credit for innovating with a device such as this, but they have been passed by others as far as functionality.
The most recent version I think launched in the new 7, and then followed in the '09 3 series and other BMWs, but I'm not positive on that. I haven't really used it, but from what I've seen, it's much easier to understand than the system it replaced, and as far as things like graphic design and technological capabilities are concerned, it's more advanced than anything Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti have.
I'd take the MMI or iDrive system over the Lexus one any day of the week!
This car isn't quick; it's genuinely fast, and smooth. We criticized this engine in the new 7 Series for a less than even acceleration curve and slightly jerky throttle response, but no such problem here. Perhaps BMW has evened out the engine's power delivery, or maybe the new trans calibrates the problem away. But the biturbo V-8's got power everywhere on the tach and is easy to drive slowly and smoothly and really gets with the program when you've got your toes into it. There's no turbo lag or jerkiness, just smooth power from a relatively low rpm, as there's meaningful boost available at low rpm. This powertrain makes that silky, turbinelike whirr we've come to expect from BMW V-8s, and it doesn't disappoint. While the result is exceptional, one wonders if this much expensive turbocharger hardware is needed or warranted to produce 400 horsepower. There are other 5.5-liter V-8s that make as much power without all the technical complexity. Whatever, it sure works. As is typical of today's ZF automatic transmissions, this eight-speeder shifts smoothly without being mushy, and always seem to be in the right gear Want a different one, just order up- or downshifts via the steering wheel paddle-shifter, or the throttle.
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Motortrend test
Or even the Panamera. This thing has been clocked at 3.2 sec to 60 already.
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With the modern automobile's mass generally increasing year by year, it is often said that the mark of a good vehicle is its ability to shrink around the driver -- to drive like a smaller, lighter car than its lengthy list of standard equipment and safety features would suggest. Here, on the impossibly tight and windy sections of Malibu, California's famed Mulholland Drive, the 2011 Jaguar XJ L Supercharged -- Jaguar's newest flagship luxury sedan -- does exactly that.
More than 4000 pounds and 206 inches of luxury sedan isn't exactly in its element hustling the fine, treacherously narrow line between jagged, rocky canyon walls and perilously steep drop-offs, but the Jaguar is sure-footed and well-composed. The winding ribbon of well-traveled gray asphalt seems custom-made for a 7/8ths scale car -- a diminutive Lotus Exige, perhaps. Still, the long-wheelbase, aluminum-framed XJ is up to the task, turning in with precision and quickness decidedly against the norm for the executive transportation class. But then, Jaguar has never been enamored with the norm.
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In the 9's - 4 Times
By the way, thats about 15 car lenths through the traps....the ZR-1 mod could have started 2 seconds handicap and past both the LF-A and the GT-R at the lights!
Now, granted the LF-A is a whole different level but 1/4 mile performance? No contest it's way under the best out there for a whole lot less.
Regards,
OW
A few days ago we reported that Infiniti will bring two M-based models to the Pebble Beach Concours. Today, AutoBlog reports that the new models will be sold under the Infiniti Performance Line (IPL) nomenclature.
What is IPL? "A new catalog of in-house developed upgrades which – according to the filing – will include everything from air filters to cat-back exhaust systems, and – more intriguingly – "automotive engine parts, namely turbochargers and superchargers." Most like Infiniti’s version of the Nissan’s Nismo and the F-Sport line for Lexus.
Previously reported, the two models being brought to Pebble Beach "will extend Infiniti into an area we haven’t been before and that one of those models will be more performance oriented." Any performance orientation mixed in with some turbochargers and superchargers would definitely be a hot ticket. We can’t wait to see what specifications come out of Pebble Beach this year...namely by Infiniti.
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I don't get the big deal with that. :confuse: So what if they still come with cassette decks? I happen to like that fact. There are millions of people out there with old tapes that they still enjoy listening to. That "abandon old technology even though it's still viable" mentality is what has me in a pickle now! I have a bunch of old 8mm videos of the kids and trips, etc. that I can no longer watch because my old camcorder got damaged out on a boat and the industry has completely abandoned producing 8mm camcorders. Yet you can still buy 8mm tapes. :confuse: And the cost of converting ONE 8mm tape to digital format could probably buy me TWO 8mm camcorders if they were still being made! :mad: